I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'm curious to hear your response. I'm seeing more and more new provider ads with an addendum saying something like "and since our time together is private and discreet, please do not post any reviews."

So what is the proper etiquette?

1. Is our loyalty to our "brothers" on TER or the Provider? If the experience is not good/as advertised/not worth the investment, do we have an obligation to post? Or is seeing her the same as giving our word to her request? And if the experience is great, do we have an obligation to share that too?

2. Should one be warned off by such addendums in Provider ads? Why would one not want to be reviewed? There's really only one reason and that's to avoid being categorized as sub-par and seeing diminishing calls. Or is privacy really a problem for women who are reviewed?

In any event, it seems like TER is making a real difference since "reviews" are now being referred to in ads, and in some cases, linked. Good for us. Take care care, everyone.

Except in the case of a ripoff, why not respect their wishes?  If you don't want to see an unreviewed provider, pass on the ones that request not to review them.  Many providers want to control their own marketing and feel that they can market more discreetly without the assistance of TER or TBD.  Why not simply respect the wishes of another?

Seaver said "There's really only one reason and that's to avoid being categorized as sub-par and seeing diminishing calls. Or is privacy really a problem for women who are reviewed?"
___________

No, that is not true.  There is another good reason why providers don't like to be reviewed.  It can be humiliating to have private and personal issues about oneself discussed on a public board.  It is humiliating to be denigrated to a set of numbers between 1 to 10.  I know hobbyists would never be able to endure this kind of treatment. Its humiliating to be treated not as a human being with feelings but as a piece of meat (or as an ATM with a pulse). And some providers think the act of reviewing a girl is very low class and they don't wish to be reviewed for this reason.

Some of us endure this humiliation for the sake of greater financial gain.  But it is a violation of one's privacy to have discussed on a board what her breasts feel like or whether or not her genitals are shaved unless one open shares that info about herself.  And yet some providers manipulate their reviews so as only to shed favorable light upon themselves.

And some girls are afraid of being too high-profile believing such attention will be noticed by LE, thereby increasing her chances of being arrested.


You should respect the provider's wishes and either don't review her or don't see her.

Reviews provide high level of customer accountability in a high cost market. I have accountability in my work. People check my references all the time, and I have to be concerned about this regularly. Reviews can be done respectfully. Most often are.

But sorry, a review will probably mention physical acts and performance, considering the business. I think TER is largely a means of support among hobbyists, but the site and its reviews I'm sure can help the gals too, if the gals are true.

From mad jealousy I didn't want to share Inga, but I reviewed her because I remember how tortured I was unable to find a review of her and having to go in blind, for 5$.

Jonathan, I personally have reviews but have a close friend who wont see anyone who reviews.  I understand her point so I find your attitude most distressing.  The oldest profession has been around a LOT longer than reviews on the internet and, NO, for your money, reviews are NOT a god given right anymore than is abuse.  They never were and still are not PART OF THE DEAL. You mentioned being reviewed, but remember that your profession is LEGAL, ours is not.  So us get out?  where would you men be?  
There are many men who think like you;

You men all demand "discretion", but if a girl asks you not to review her, you do not want to give it in return.  How powerful that must make you feel.

If there was a lady you really wanted to see and she asked you not to review her, would you lie to her and still review her? Even if the service was great and she was more than you'd hoped?



-- Modified on 4/19/2002 8:07:01 AM

pt

"Reviews provide high level of customer accountability in a high cost market."

"But sorry, a review will probably mention physical acts and performance, considering the business. "

I could not agree more on both points. I really think that a lot of people...both hobbyist and providers...forget that this is a business, and that if one elects to be in this business, most of the acceptable mores and expect decorum goes out of the window. While I can appreciate (as a fellow human being) that some providers think such openess about things intimate is inappropriate (and believe me, in my personal I am absolutely not a kiss-and-tell type of guy....for selfish reasons), the truth is that I POST REVIEWS. My loyalty is to my fellow hobbyist...my MONEY goes to the provider. That...along with a Clean and Safe Experience, is all that she can reasonably ask of me.

If a gal, (I don't like term provider because it is dehumanizing), asked me not to review, I would respect it fully and abide. Reviewing for me is not a power trip; I repeat, I do it with pain at times because I don't want to share my loves. But I so highly appreciate the valuable feedback from other customers, that I want to contribute to this good forum as well. The point is: there are rip-offs at every corner, expensive ones. Not just the scams, but the false advertising. It is abundant. Yes, gals have security risks too in posting accurate info about self. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about plain and simple, False Advertising. TER is like the Better Business Bureau. Again, it CAN be done respectfully. And if she insisted, I would not review. But the chances would be reduced that I would have ever even gotten to her. Though, not impossible.

"The oldest profession has been around a LOT longer than reviews on the Internet "

That is very true, but since escorts USE the Internet and reviews to their benefit, I see no reason whatsoever why hobbyist shouldn't do the same.

"reviews are NOT a god given right anymore than is abuse. "

This is a SHAMEFUL analogy...how can you equate a review (assuming it was factual) with a girl being sexually abused???

"You men all demand "discretion", but if a girl asks you not to review her, you do not want to give it in return.  How powerful that must make you feel."

(Snicker) That was funny...

Look, the hobbyist and the provider are NOT on equal footing. The risks for the provider were assumed when she went into the business...and CERTAINLY if she decided to place her face and other details on the Internet, then she has GOT to know "discretion" for her has gone out the window. Discretion for the hobbyist is critical...if there were none, guess what? There would be NO HOBBY. Escorts (except perhaps those at the ABSOLUTE pinnacle of the industry...porn stars essentially, or those operating in places where "escorting" is legal) would go hungry. Sure, I'd like discretion, but there are plenty of guys here who don't have wives or girlfriends, and based on the banter I read on this board, apparently have only the thinnest veil of secrecy in regards to their identity. "Discretion" in this case isn't protecting them (from what? going to jail? When is the last time a JOHN ever did any jail time?) it is protecting YOU. Escorts have the real problem with the legal system, not the johns.

Having said all that, my point is that the day a provider decided to enter this industry, she should have realized ALL of those risks. Discretion was no longer on the table (again, certainly not if she is to use the internet as a marketing tool).

Many of behaviors we typically think of as "proper" in regards to a human sexual relationships between to people went out the door when the FIRST rule of such relationships was violated...an exchange of money. It then became BUSINESS...it is no longer PERSONAL. Reviews should not be viewed as such…

you probably would not meet her unless you were part of a private email group. private email groups is how this whole damn thing with ratings and review boards started anyway.

Some escorts dont want to be really high profile.  but because of review boards, they have been made that way before they even knew they were being reviewed.  Hell if I wanted to be high profile I would have chosen to be a porn actress instead, at least that way I could command the high dollar as an escort.

Here's something for guys who insist on reviewing a gal...does a good escort have to get out of the biz because of reviews?  I know one escort who was followed into the supermarket by a stranger who read her reviews on the net and told about her "very excellent" reviews in the middle of the supermarket.  Not too cool, so now she tells people NO reviews.

Well, sir, it's obvious what you think of the "ladies".

Like I said, I do have reviews, but I have news for you. All the cards were NOT on the table 4 or so years ago.  Things have changed drastically.  Review boards other than deja news did not exist, nor were explicit reviews the norm.

"Shameful analogy?" It was showing a scope of mindsets my dear.  I guess you didnt catch that. As far as what I deem as abuse, well there are many lines drawn by many people with lots of justifications for their viewpoints, I wont even get into that argument.

Reviews of clients may become a "norm" as well.  How do you feel about that?  I spoke with a client today who told me that he thinks TER should have a forum for the ladies to review the men...something like tbd does.

Now back to your statement.

Many of behaviors we typically think of as "proper" in regards to a human sexual relationships between to people went out the door when the FIRST rule of such relationships was violated...an exchange of money. It then became BUSINESS...it is no longer PERSONAL. Reviews should not be viewed as such…

What exactly are you indicating here...that because this is a business of sex that you dont have to treat someone decently?  What proper behaviors?  That we dont judge you for cheating on your wife?   What are you saying?  Or is this a moral judgement?

I personally have no problem with reviews, just trying to understand your reasoning and your attitude.

-- Modified on 4/19/2002 2:03:12 PM

"What exactly are you indicating here...that because this is a business of sex that you dont have to treat someone decently? "

Nope...I never said that. And I am sure if there WERE a form for reviewing clients, an HONEST review of me would state that I was a gentlemen in every sense of the word. In fact, exactly that has been said about me, right here on this board.

"All the cards were NOT on the table 4 or so years ago.  Things have changed drastically.  Review boards other than deja news did not exist, nor were explicit reviews the norm."

Fair enough. I understand your point. But since these review forums exist now, then ladies are aware of them (and use them to their benefit). I might agree with you on the explicit part...my reviews tend to be explict, because I know my fellow hobbyist (with whom my loyalties lie) want explict reviews so that they can make judgements for themselves. As I have said in a previous post on this topic, I WRITE reviews because I USE reviews. I don't even do so to get the "credit"...I "PAY" for my membership to TER (why, I don't know...lol). If someone were to make a reasonable and logical arguement to me as to why reviews shouldn't be explicit, I might actually be willing to change my mind. But I ABSOLUTELY consider it my RIGHT to write a review, just as you would consider it your right to tell your friends about your hairdresser, be the news good or bad. As long as my review is factual, I absolutely reserve my right to write it, and my mind will not be changed.

"Reviews of clients may become a "norm" as well.  How do you feel about that?  I spoke with a client today who told me that he thinks TER should have a forum for the ladies to review the men...something like tbd does."

Personally, I think this is silly...do you think your hairdresser would be justified in telling any and everyone about your hair? However, if the point would be to protect the ladies...make sure clients who were safety risks or otherwise trouble were exposed, I would be ok with it.

"What exactly are you indicating here...that because this is a business of sex that you dont have to treat someone decently?  What proper behaviors?  That we dont judge you for cheating on your wife?   What are you saying?  Or is this a moral judgement?"

What I am saying is that you can't let the horse back in after he has left the barn. You can't talk about "discretion" after you have posted nude or semi nude pictures of yourself on the internet, and have decided to become an escort. It is NOT a moral judgement...I am simply being real.

I guess I would say that if a lady didn't want reviews on her service to be placed on the internet, then the best way to insure that would be to not be on the internet herself. That why, more than likely her clients would have used some other means to locate her, and would not be so inclined to post.

Again...you can't have it both ways.

Well, Life as Me, you are a tough cookie, at least in print under an alias. My hairdresser is not in a fragile profession, and he complains when I dont spread the word.  Shameful analogy.

And I do believe that some of the ladies are making adjustments given the changing climate of the internet.  I put my face on it, which i partially regret, but then I show nothing nude or lewd either.

I may even go to blurring my face, and though the horse has been let out of the barn doesnt mean it cannot be corralled.  Just because the bell has been rung doesnt mean it has to keep being rung. The hell with these bullshit sayings, invented to spread hopelessness. I am thinking beyond them anyway.  My girlfriend DID take ANY AND ALL pics that she put up as well as the ones that were PLAGARIZED (yes it does happen) and put up on sites without her knowledge. You see, this does happen without our knowledge.  No one ever told us that this would become a monster.

"ABSOLUTELY consider it my RIGHT to write a review, just as you would consider it your right to tell your friends about your hairdresser, be the news good or bad. As long as my review is factual, I absolutely reserve my right to write it, and my mind will not be changed."

Well that is just fine. You must have had some pretty raunchy providers to make you feel that way. So the deal is, you stay with your kind, and she and I stay with our kind.  Personally I appreciate the gentlemen who is  not so hardcore, and closeminded and feels the compulsion to be with the big bad boys club no matter how a provider feels.  Yet you still expect quality treatment?  

Whatever you THINK your money buys you, it doesnt buy you the right to run over someone's feelings.  I guess you don't treat people in the manner which you wish to be treated. with you it's about rights, not about people.

Sayonara.



-- Modified on 4/19/2002 2:50:05 PM

"Well, Life as Me, you are a tough cookie, at least in print under an alias."

For the record, I am tough cookie, period, but I have a soft spot for the right person.  

" My hairdresser is not in a fragile profession, and he complains when I dont spread the word.  Shameful analogy."

What I said was that you would (presumably) not want him sharing with others about YOU. (in respose to posts about clients). If he is GLAD to have you spead the word about HIM, this only makes sense (it is more business) and it is why MANY providers apparently LIKE reviews. You should be able to share your experiences with your hairdresser, and anyone else who provides a service.

"Next point. My girlfriend DID take ANY AND ALL pics that she put up as well as the ones that were PLAGARIZED (yes it does happen) and put up on sites without her knowledge. You see, this does happen without our knowledge.  No one ever told us that this would become a monster."

On the presumption you meant "took down", then I would say this is the first step towards her not having to deal with reviews going forward. THe next would be to take down her website site (if she has one) entirely. Still, it will be diffiuclt to "un ring the bell". She has used the internet for her purposes, and it became larger than she would have liked. Nothing vetured, nothing gained.

"And I do believe that some of the ladies are making adjustments given the changing climate of the internet.  I put my face on it, which i partially regret, but then I show nothing nude or lewd either."

This was a personal decison no doubt, and also a business decision. As I am sure you know, guys are MUCH more likely to respond to an ad with a picutre, and I suspect (I don't know for certain) to one with nude or semi nude pics even more so (I personally would never respond to anything "lewd", but to me, nudity and lewdness are not the same thing). Remove the pictures to protect your privacy...sounds like a very smart decision. But it will be sometime before the images no longer exist SOMEWHERE in the cyberverse.

It is all a balance that each lady has to strike for themselves...how much business do you want, and from what type of clients. I am sure there are very exclusive esocrts who do VERY WELL and who would NEVER have a web site. They don't want that kind of client...and I bet they don't have to worry about reviews either. I guess it all boils down to which end of the pool you with to swim in...

"Well, Life as Me, you are a tough cookie, at least in print under an alias."

For the record, I am tough cookie, period, but I have a soft spot for the right person.  

" My hairdresser is not in a fragile profession, and he complains when I dont spread the word.  Shameful analogy."

What I said was that you would (presumably) not want him sharing with others about YOU. (in respose to posts about clients). If he is GLAD to have you spead the word about HIM, this only makes sense (it is more business) and it is why MANY providers apparently LIKE reviews. You should be able to share your experiences with your hairdresser, and anyone else who provides a service.

"Next point. My girlfriend DID take ANY AND ALL pics that she put up as well as the ones that were PLAGARIZED (yes it does happen) and put up on sites without her knowledge. You see, this does happen without our knowledge.  No one ever told us that this would become a monster."

On the presumption you meant "took down", then I would say this is the first step towards her not having to deal with reviews going forward. The next would be to take down her website site (if she has one) entirely. Still, it will be diffiuclt to "un ring the bell". She has used the internet for her purposes, and it became larger than she would have liked. Nothing vetured, nothing gained.

"And I do believe that some of the ladies are making adjustments given the changing climate of the internet.  I put my face on it, which i partially regret, but then I show nothing nude or lewd either."

This was a personal decison no doubt, and also a business decision. As I am sure you know, guys are MUCH more likely to respond to an ad with a picutre, and I suspect (I don't know for certain) to one with nude or semi nude pics even more so (I personally would never respond to anything "lewd", but to me, nudity and lewdness are not the same thing). Remove the pictures to protect your privacy...sounds like a very smart decision. But it will be sometime before the images no longer exist SOMEWHERE in the cyberverse.

It is all a balance that each lady has to strike for themselves...how much business do you want, and from what type of clients. I am sure there are very exclusive esocrts who do VERY WELL and who would NEVER have a web site. They don't want that kind of client...and I bet they don't have to worry about reviews either. I guess it all boils down to which end of the pool you wish to swim in...


-- Modified on 4/19/2002 3:35:20 PM

Your last post habors some inaccuracies which I cannot address right now, but I do take issue with your adamant stance about "Your Rights".

Jeez I wouldnt want to meet you in a corner.  No wonder some ladies are asking for posting handles and review aliases before they see a client.

Now, I'm over this pissing match and intend to get on with my afternoon with a client who enjoys and appreciates a lady and deserves my attention more than this.

Happy Hobbying



-- Modified on 4/19/2002 3:12:37 PM

Reviews are often used as psychological warfare against a provider...unlike reviewing a restaurant, our reviews are often personal attacks designed to demean us.  You were so right about it making the person feel powerful...the power of the pen.  But it only hurts if you read your reviews and I always tell girls getting into this business, "Don't read your reviews.  What you don't read, can't hurt you."


Reviews say more about the reviewer than the reviewed.


Its one thing to say the girl was the same as the picture, the service was as expected, less than expected or more than expected but all these personal attacks that guys make against girls is not acceptable in civilized company and these reviewers insult themselves when they attack a girl unprovoked, who has welcomed them into her home, treated him well and given him an orgasm.

I have never understood who anyone can be so miserable after an orgasm.  


Talisa

If the service was good and she asks that you not post reviews, I would honor her request.

If the service was bad, a rip off, misleading, etc and she asks that you not post reviews I would do it anyway in order to help out the hobbyists who depend on the reviews for information.

After all, as I understand it, a provider has a right at any time to ask that she be delisted or made inactive. So if she doesn't like her reviews she can ask to be inactive.

MM

How can reviews be used as psychological warfare? Could you give me some examples? You're making me a bit nervous.

I am new to TER, apparently I had one old review here many years ago and knew nothing of it, then a friend sent me here and I checked it out, now I ask people to review me and additionally TER members who see the reviews write reviews as well. So far, the reviews and the experience has been overwhelmingly positive.

I did have trouble with a client exaggerating and saying I did things I didn't do in a review, I wrote and asked that it be removed and it was. No problem there. Tell me more about what you mean about reviews being used in a negative manner...?

MM

The question should be how to post  review without offending anyone.
I think this may be impossible. Even the most glowing review can be perceived as an insult and have real privacy issues.

Should one then quit, pack up ones bag and head for the hills?
Then we all lose the benefit of information - which is to inform.

most people on this site - have a lots of issues...  it's nice to get things off one's chest at no cost to you personally, but remember one will eventually  deal with one own reflection in the mirror. How you really feel inside.

There are those on this board who will not be able to bear such a reflection - the mirror would crack.

I think My Life As Me hit it on the head and I disagree with all your points.  I don't think it's fair for you or anyone else to hypothesize about how a poster feels about women simply because he does not agree with your point of view on an issue.  I don't think My Life As Me gave any indication that he does not treat women decently, but this argument seems to be the card that is always played in these discussions.  

Escorting is commercial. Period. Information is part of commerce, and in commerce the relationship between the customer and the service provider is inherently unequal.  I'm sure most of the posters go through this on a daily basis.  

Regards,

Talisman

"Reviews are often used as psychological warfare against a provider...unlike reviewing a restaurant, our reviews are often personal attacks designed to demean us. "

Then this is wrong and is NOT what I am advocating should be done, or defending as a right. I have stated before, in previous posts, that reviews should be factual. And if TER enforced its policy regarding personal attacks more closely, this should also not be a problem. Regardless of that however, I have been given the impression that such a review will be removed if requested, so this in and of itself is not a reason for the review process to be scrapped.

I am willing to concede (and apologize for) that some hobbyist do this...just as some hobbyist apparently try to use the power of the review to negotiate rates. As I posted on that topic...I think we ALL are called to standards of personal integrity...and just because someone fails to live up to a certain level of dignity does not mean you should lower yours. Have the review removed, and decline to see them again. (This might be one of the few other reasons I could see a reason for a "client" review as described by others in this thread...guys really should be banned after a certain number of deleted reviews)

"Reviews say more about the reviewer than the reviewed."

Perhaps. Certainly any guy who has so little of a life that he has to create false fantasies to post about, or have to exert "power of the pen" over an escort is a pretty pathetic bastard. I am NOT defending these guys...I am defending those men who wrote honest, informative reviews that have been helpful to me in this "hobby", and helpful to all those who are sitting on the sidelines in this debate, afraid of saying what they know they feel.

"Its one thing to say the girl was the same as the picture, the service was as expected, less than expected or more than expected but all these personal attacks that guys make against girls is not acceptable in civilized company and these reviewers insult themselves when they attack a girl unprovoked, who has welcomed them into her home, treated him well and given him an orgasm."

Agreed...though I think you and I would probably not agree on what level of detail is appropriate, certainly personal attacks are totally uncalled for.

Let me be clear...I am *NOT* in favor of personal attacks or personally disparaging remarks (like "you must be a lousy fuck with a big ego"). I am in favor of informative, factual reviews, which let hobbyist know what they should expect (which requires a tad more detail than "the service was as expected, less than expected or more than expected", BTW)

I suppose...just for the sake of clarity...if a lady wanted to post what she thought was an inappropriate review, it would help me understand what the hubbub is about, and to be able to empathize with your concerns. Show me an example of the line being crossed, and I will chime in to agree (or not agree). I might even alter my reviews going forward if a rational argument is made as to why the example review was / is bad....

This was EXACTLY my point, albeit stated with a more level head and with less passion...lol.

Thank you, my fellow hobbyist, for being willing to state the obvious. My guess is that a good number of our peers are sitting on the sideline nodding, but afraid to post for fear of being "black listed" or "black balled"  (snicker...I crack myself up...lol)

-- Modified on 4/20/2002 12:53:35 PM

"After all, as I understand it, a provider has a right at any time to ask that she be delisted or made inactive. So if she doesn't like her reviews she can ask to be inactive."

Exactly. An escort can't just say "I like my good reviews, I don't like my bad reviews, the bad ones are 'inappropriate' "

There has been some discussion re: "personal attacks". I don't advocate "personal attacks", but I am curious about the defination of such. I wonder if EVERY unflattering review is thought of as such.

A personal attack is always subjective or an outright lie designed to slander the victim.  They are usually angry sounding and often times a bit over-the-top.  

A merely unflattering review without an intention to inflict emotional distress is objective.

Read the reviews and you can tell which ones are subjective and which ones are objective.



Here is a made=up example for an Unflattering Review vs a Personal Attack



Objective Unflattering Review:  When I arrived at her home at the appointed time, she was not ready and had me wait downstairs for 20 minutes which really inconvenienced me.   When she answered the door, she was disheveled and I could smell the strong odor or dog urine.  The bathroom was not clean, the toilet had mold in it and the bathtub had obviously not been cleaned in a while.  This made me feel uncomfortable.  The service was rushed and during the massage she lit up a cigarette.  I regret that I didn't just leave.


Hostile Personal Attack:  I arrived on time but she was not ready and made me wait.  When I finally was let in, she didn't look so hot...maybe a 3 or 4 at most and her apartment was a Pig's Stye.  Wonder what trailer park she was raised in!  I was horny though so I stayed.
___________________

As any intelligent person can see...there is a difference!





-- Modified on 4/22/2002 10:01:03 PM

I understand your point...and agree. However, except for the "Wonder what trailer park she was raised in!" remark, I would say it is a difference in writing styles...not necessarily an intended attack. Still, I will try to keep this in mind regarding my reviews going forward.

Hmmm....that could be tough for me. I am not an eloquent writer...I tend to just write what I think. I will try though.