This an open letter to my good friend, an active hobbyist who will probably not recognize himself, but here goes:

We met a few months ago when you found me on TER and you booked an appointment.   It was standard stuff for both of us, as I am as active a provider as you are a hobbyist, but on top of the business, we seemed to connect on several levels.  The next appointment was extended and more adventuresome and we both had a great time, so when you asked me to dinner I didn’t hesitate to say yes.

One of the things that I liked about you was that while it was clear you were EXTREMELY wealthy and not embarrassed by it.  But you also didn’t flash it in my face that you could buy and sell me like a pack of gum.   We enjoyed ourselves (well, I sure did) that night and I was more than happy to conclude the evening with all that I had to give.   As you left with a smile on your face, trust me when I said I laid there with one on mine, as well.     Once we crossed that line, we both started to think of each other differently.    In my mind, you elevated yourself to an extraordinary client.   I thought of you as the best of the best and I would not think twice about bending over backwards for you  (we actually did that, too!) to accommodate you as a client and as a friend.   You, apparently, started to look at me as a conquest.  Normally I’d say that you may have looked at me as a girlfriend, but you made it clear that your wife, kids, company and current girlfriend wouldn’t be happy with that.  

That’s when the problem started.   It’s when the problem always starts.

The next time we were together, you asked me on what seemed like a date, but you brought in another provider that you said was a surprise “for both of us”  and I admit I had a good time.    I just wonder if you realize the affect it had on me when you spent $5,000 to fly in another provider from Vegas and just ASSUMED that I would be there at no charge.   Did you wonder about that?   What if your best friend was a consumer of the kind of product you sell, but never came to YOUR company for that product – always went to others?  Would you wonder after a while?    I’m IN this business, you found me THROUGH this business and we were together only because I AM in the business, then as soon as I extend a small piece of my heart to you …. you devalued me by paying others without hesitation yet just assuming that I’d be at your beck and call without so much as asking.    

If you want to DATE me, fine.  I like you that much.   But you have to bring flowers, call once in a while, ask me what I want to do, take me out some times when YOU maybe don’t really want to go .. and be prepared for the questions about what our relationship means!    If you want me to be at your beck and call …. yet just be ‘another provider’  when I become inconvenient, that’s fine too.  Either way … what I asked was that you don’t slap me in the face with all the other providers you see, many at 5 times my rate, and then expect me to be there for free WITHOUT AT LEAST OFFERING!

I think I know your problem.   You have great wealth, girls see it and you know from experience that ANYONE will like you if you pay them enough money … so you feel just a bit happier and a bit more secure when you have someone who doesn’t want it from you.   But you still wanted my time at your convenience.   Not when I had a few minutes to give.    You made me feel like I was a freebie booty call because as soon as I told you that I couldn’t afford to take time off work last week to spend with you (because it’s my JOB and source of income) you told me that you couldn’t see me any more as a client.    You made it sound like it’s a big game to you – the more wealth you have, the more you try to get for free.

Am I greedy?   Yeah, I probably am – at least let’s assume that I am.   Call me greedy, call me a bitch if you want.  But that’s not my point.  My point is that just as I told you that I can’t see you off the clock in perpetuity unless you’re willing to make a commitment (and you’re not) you told me that I wasn’t good enough for you to pay…… then asked me how much my best friend charges.   No wonder you are so lonely.


-- Modified on 11/5/2003 4:23:38 PM

As it sounds like he deserves it, too!!

Here's the perspective from the other side:  I have been there.  There is nothing more confusing than having REAL feelings for a lady, and not knowing if I am just a very good client or truly a special friend.

The confusion starts when you see me, and you don't charge me.  From my perspective, that means that you see this as something different than what I had originally intended.  As a guy, at that point, you will get characterized one of two ways:  Either you are a near-term conquest, or you are someone I could try to build a relationship with.  But if I am already in a personal situation that eliminates the relationship opportunity, there is no recourse but for you to be either a one time conquest, or a succession of conquests.  I have already made it clear to you that I cannot give you more.  I was honest about it.  If you feel that our time together is not so fulfilling to you that you voluntarily wish to be there, then YOU need to be honest with me.  How do you do that?  Simple - TELL ME, in no uncertain terms, that I am a client.  Maybe a special client, but nonetheless a client.  Face it:  Guys are wired to seek out multiple sexual partners.  We deal with it and we move on.  As long as YOU set my expectations correctly, I would probably love to see you again professionally.  And if you want me to be a sugar daddy, that may work too, but YOU need to be honest with me about it.  Otherwise, all you are doing is feeding my ego, and leading me toward treating you this way.  Why should I pay for no-strings attached sex when you are giving it to me for free?  YOU need to stand up for yourself.  YOU need to tell me that there ARE strings attached, or there is a fee to be paid for the experience.  Men do not have the sense of empathy that you ladies do.  We are ego and conquest driven - we will take what is given to us, and we will feel entitled to it.

I have the sense that you have gotten exactly the treatment that you have let yourself receive.  I didn't mean to do it to you.  But you let me, by offerring yourself.  If you set a different set of rules, I would play by those instead.  But I always will choose the path of least commitment that leads to great sex.  It's in my DNA.

He stayed totally true to all explicit contractual arrangements, provided you with extra things you liked, always asked whether or not you would comply with a desire of his, but somehow offended you. Where exactly in the contract does it say he has to read your mind? The opportunity to view you "as a conquest" IS PART OF THE REASON HE IS A HOBBYIST.

-- Modified on 11/5/2003 5:13:52 PM

I believe one thing has been forgotten. In this pastime "It's all about the money".  That goes both ways and it seems that, that fact was forgotten.  Take Care & Play Save

June,
You are 100% correct.  Guys like this fella make it difficult for those of us with modest $ that enjoy the hobby for the pleasures, not the mind games to the provider.  If he wants you "off the clock" then he needs to sacrafice by giving up something else, perhaps time.

forget business ethics?

On the other hand, seems to me that the conquest thing is more of a male thing than a hobbyist thing.

So it seems more about caring about another person's wellbeing at that point, financial OR otherwise.  Some men do, some don't regardless of whether they are a hobbyist.






-- Modified on 11/5/2003 5:49:16 PM

He has a family and a girlfriend to boot.  What chance do you think you have with him if you give it away?  It's a long wait in line for this one, and in this case, whatever you give away, he'll just keep taking it. You deserve better than to be 3rd in line and with empty pockets.  You don't get him, AND you don't get your rent paid. Don't worry. It happens to the best of us.  

Anyhow, back to you.  Throw some dishes at the wall or go to the gym and run til you feel better, then go treat yourself to the spa, buy something pretty for yourself, and lift up your chin and engage your big brain before you let your heart go next time.

Just remember, that if you give it away, make sure  you are giving it to the right person.  the person who will fulfill the part that MONEY CAN'T BUY.  Honey, money or a freebie CAN'T buy love.

-- Modified on 11/5/2003 6:05:40 PM

... you won't understand the answer.  

Character is what you do whan no one is looking, or in this case, when you think there are no consequences.  

As Forest Gump said, " Stupid is a stupid does."

or too be even clearer,

Just because you can treat someone else like shit doesn't mean it is right..

And while we're on the subject ( I can feel myself winding up to a reallly good rant so I better be careful here), isn't it just a little hypocritical  to expect a GFE if you're not willing to put the effort into a little BFE.  I know it's  a business arrangement, but come on, she's not a robot.   If all you want is a warm place to stick it, go heat up a cantalope,   It'd be cheaper too.  

There is never a good reason for treating people like a used kleenex, even if you can buy and sell them like a piece of gum.  

JMOICBW
(Just My Opinion I Could Be Wrong)

i didn't read the letter (sorry, poor attention span) but i got enough by reading the other posts in this thread, to suggest you TRY to imagine (if not understand) his position and likewise  he you

the result may be that everything must be balanced and it *is* in fact "all about the money!"  :p

Girl, you spoke my mind. He reminds me of a (past) client (special friend) that I once had. After two (unpaid/freebie) visits to him (halfway across the country), he had the nerve to ask me to bring a friend along (another provider) on my next trip.  Of course she would be paid (very significantly) for her time and travel.  Also when I refused to quit the business for hime (although he offered no other means for support), he became very upset. Yes I cared about him and had developed feelings, but they soon faded once I saw how he was affecting my income.

JC,

I am sorry your feelings were put through that kind of thing. Having poor manners is not just for the wealthy, Im sorry to say.

The greatest gift to others is to freely relinquish yourself. I guess, when you have it all, it is hard to see anything as a gift.

Much Love
Bear

You're mad at him because he was "assuming that I’d be at your beck and call without so much as asking".  Isn't that you're job ??????  Isn't that the way most of these encounters take place ???

And you were affected because he "brought in another provider that you said was a surprise “for both of us”, yet you went ahead and fully participated ANYWAY ????

He has a wife, family, girlfriend on the side, and yet you write "if you want to DATE me, fine.  I like you that much."  Are you serious ?????  What redeeming qualities did you see in this man other than his money ???

I apologize if I'm coming across as mean-spirited, that's not my intention at all.  I'm just wondering if I'm missing something ?!?!?!

I guess I just don't understand where he's being unethical. Maybe it's because I didn't read her original description of the events carefully. I don't mean to be snarky or deliberately misogynist merely because I'm male -- I'm usually quite sympathetic to female concerns, really, up the sisterhood and all that!

I simply don't see where he did something incorrect or disapprovable. Define for me exactly the wrong behavior? From where I sit, it looks like she wanted to "date" him (or at least be treated as though she were a viable potential civilian date) but he didn't, and that's that. Any further misleading, or miscommunication, could have easily been allayed by her DIRECTLY ASKING HIM whether this were business or not ... right?

I mean, umm, did she EVER address her concerns to him? Or just accuse, try, convict, and now attempt to punish all entirely in absentia?

Lets assume the best interpretation for each of you.  

You both felt something for each other and wanted to connect at a more personal level.  Your business got in the way.  He was not able to deal with it.  He needed to be able to deal with it if you were going to have an personal relationship with him.  Things broke.

This is hard to solve.  Perhaps you can initiate a discussion with him again over these questions.  If you can, I hope you both find some resolution that makes you both satisfied with the result.  If that isn't possible, I hope you are able to move on and fit the experience into your life.

All the best...Harry

If you re-read June's letter carefully you see the 'game' as she calls it:   He wants the professionality, the convenience and the "out of sight, out of mind" quality of the provider without the fee.

She will see him as a client on his terms  OR she will date him when she has the personal time and motivation available... but that's not good enough for him.   He wants the best of both worlds without any effort.  

He wants her to care enough for him to see him 'off the clock'  but still only when he gets the desire and when it's convenient.

I know this game, I've played it and lost a few times myself.

Interesting post.

I don't think this relationship was meant to be though and not because it was a provider/client relationship.  I think we forget that most relationships do not infact work out.  I think I must have had 25-30 civilian relationships which I enjoyed before I settled down and got married.  For whatever reason each one of the prior ones was just not meant to be.  Sounds like even though you have a lot in common, it is just not enough to make this relationship go either on a professional or a friendship basis.  You gave it your best and that's all you can do.

Sometimes I feel in a similar dilemma with my ATF.  Even though she deeply discounts me, she still charges me and I really treat her more like a traveling companion or girlfriend than a "fuck Buddy".  It works for now but I don't know if it will work forever.  I thank you for sharing your story and I think for now I will be content to keep my relationship on a pay as you go basis.

Sounds like Jilted has hit the nail right on the head (OUCH!)  You as a professional let your guard down and rolled the dice, unfortunately it sounds like, with the wrong one.  The line for 3rds is just way to long when there is no finacial reward to boot.  It always works that way, the one's that court  you are always less appealing, and the ones that take your kindness for granted are the ones to affect you the hardest, truely sounds like you should chalk him up as a lost and move on.  I am sure there are plenty of guys in line, waiting to console you.  Do treat yourself to those shoes you have been ogling, and run from him in the opposite direction.  
Cheri'

He is a JERK !

He is a jerk but where did you really see this relationship going?  He clearly let you know that you were behind the wife, kids, company and current girlfriend in the pecking order.  In my mind that does not leave much of a spot for you at all.

In a related area I am constantly amused when the ladies say that by keeping their fees high they get to see only the cream of the crop.  I too deal with some wealthy individuals and find that in many cases they are bigger jerks than the middle class guys who can't afford some of the higher priced ladies.  How do you think many of them got the money in the first place?  Did you assume that they rose in a nice easy fashion like cream to the top of a milk bottle without stepping on a lot of people on the way up?

But as others have said it is all about money and the rest is just BS.

June . . . sorry you were treated like shit.  Unfortunately, the world is full of rich assholes and poor assholes (I have no particular opinion as to which group is larger).

I had to reply to some of the folks whose response was basically . . . "you're an escort, get over it."  

A careful reading of June's post reveals, as someone else noted, that she is not upset about going back to seeing him just as a client after a few freebies . . . she is upset by the fact that he wants to treat her as an escort (no strings, at my beck and call, what-I-want-when-I-want-it) but not pay her for the privilege.

The no-strings treatment is the reason many of us partake of this hobby, even those of us with wives, girlfriends, or lots of civilian options.  I think (hope) the providers understand and respect that.  It's a business for both sides.  But it can't be unilateral.

I run a small business and am close friends with several of my customers.  I work for some of my friends for free.  I know I would be pissed off if they suddenly started ignoring me as a friend, but still expected me to work for them for free.

Oh, and by the way.  Whatever you think about this gentleman's conduct, I hope you'll join me in telling him that asking June about her best friend's rate was one of the most classless, demeaning things you've ever heard of. If you really wanted to know, check the bleeping internet, or TER, or make a bleeping phone call.  Wow.  Thanks for making this hobby so much more difficult for the rest of us.