No relationship is as highly charged as that between mother and daughter, or as riddled with expectations that can, like a land mine, explode with a single wrong step, a solitary stray word that, without warning, wounds or enrages.  For both mothers and daughters, the other is often crazy-making.

A woman might say:  “I can’t be with my mother for five minutes without wanting to kill her.  And yet I really believe in my heart of hearts that I would be nothing without her”.

Or a woman might say:  “Even though my mother is no longer here, I know what she *thinks*.  I hear her voice when I clean my house, telling me where to put this and where to put that and not to sweep anything under the rug.  I’ve always wanted to become a lawyer.  But I hear my mother again, “How could you give up your job and abandon your family?”  No matter what I do, I always hear her voice.  So I don’t clean my house so well – my rebellion.  But I also don’t go to law school.”

Mothers are often the yardstick by which daughters measure themselves – have they done “it” - education, career, sexuality, marriage, homemaking, thinness, popularity, chic, motherhood – as well as she has?  Better?  Differently?

Because if they have done “it” both well *and* differently, then they are prepared to survive without her.  They have completed the course.

But there’s a hitch in the mother-daughter separation process:  Women want to survive, but not entirely without her.  They want to detach from their mothers, but not defect.  Because, like it or not, they are still very much bound up with her.

Whether the relationship is strained or easy, hostile or amiable, daughters need their mothers, if only to affirm their history, validate their femaleness, and guide their way.  They need to know she’s there if they stumble, to love them unconditionally, to nurture the child that lives within their daughters even now, without infantilizing them.  It is a need that never leaves even in the best of mother-daughter attachments, and in the worst creates a yawning gulf wider than the heart can bear.

A mother sets the tone for her daughter’s life, provides a road map and a model, and continues through her daughter’s middle and old age to be her example.  And so daughters ask their mothers:  When did she menstruate?  Begin menopause?  How did she feel about and deal with love?  Friendship?  Work?  Sexual longing?  Loneliness?

But if a mother and daughter have no connection, the daughters cannot ask the one person whose psyche and body have programmed their own.  That’s why the loss is so great when the daughter has to figure it out for herself, and forge her own trail rather than following her mother’s example or learning from it.  Such a daughter has to discover herself, alone.  

This enquiring mind wants to know. And why don't you ever post about mother/son relationships, especially if you're male? The mother/son relationship is just as, if not more, important than the mother/daughter relationship. Lastly, you seem to only post about the fucked upness of mother/daughter relationships. Have you ever stopped to think that there may be women here who have wonderfully kind, loving and respectful relationships with their parents? They aren't all as whacked as you'd like to lead the audience to believe. Sure, I don't have to read your posts. They annoy me so badly I *have* to. You make your posts seems like they are the word of a higher power with all the blanket statements when I think, in fact, they are mostly bullshit. I cannot be the only one on this board who feels this way.

I would not give you false hope on this strange and mournful day....

The mother and child re-union is only a ....

Daughters who have a good sense of self-esteem can do just fine without a mother.  I'm a man, and I can tell you that there are a lot more perils and pitfalls in mother son relationships.  Boys need a mother.  Men need to not be momma's boys.

And as for this comment:

"For both mothers and daughters, the other is often crazy-making."

I can only say one thing - Dude, you need to invest $500 in a round trip flight to Russia.  You can find mother and daughter teams there that will put some lovin' on ya that will make you crazy.

You kinda sound like you might be in need,  LOL

...back in my really early days here, about late March.  

As far as I know, maybe he's working himself up to Father/Son, Mother/Son relationships.  Maybe by 2090, he'll have covered all  human relations possible.

He doesn't actually annoy me, but I'm not able to actually read his posts.  If I get curious, I skim them.  Usually I don't come away offended, but it doesn't enlighten me either.

So, I read Neitzsche instead.

/Zin

particularly interested in father-daughter and mother-daughter relationships, and for wanting to post on these subjects.  I have discussed these ideas with many women, almost all of them outside the TER/provider community, and they have validated their usefulness.  That is why I express them with confidence.  

Yes, there are many, many women who read this board (as elsewhere) who have very healthy relationships with their parents.  My thought is that those women would have less use for whatever insights I may be able to offer, and so I have tried to make my posts more useful for everyone else by focusing on relationships that could possibly be improved, and ways to make those relationships healthier.  My posts are for all of those women who feel that they would like to improve their relationships with their parents.

I'm sorry, but of all the people to be talking about anonymity or being enigmatic, you are the last one who should have a problem with it.  Are you aware how many people on here have voiced the same question regarding gender about you...only because of your aversion to revealing your "provider" identity?

I agree with Zinaval...these posts are not really my bag, but I am not outraged by them, either, and most that I can remember were about father-daughter relationships.  Additionally, is IS possible for a person to accurately write about gender issues without necessarily being a member of that gender.

When it comes to reading his posts, just do like Nancy Reagan, and "just say no".

Reon't throw stones at glass houses

Her "provider identity" is known to some.

There may be a "lucky" few who know this hallowed secret (and who seemingly keep their identity hidden as well), but I am way past caring about that.  She...and you...can hold on to the secret until the book comes out.  

The point is that it was ironic of her to query TS about his gender when she takes her identity subterfuge much further than a few observations on society and interpersonal relationships (hobbyists have posted wanting to see a site or something on her, and have never been "allowed" to...on a site about for the hobby...I know three of them myself) and has sparked similar gender oriented doubt among some members of this board.

Additionally, it was an unnecessarily harsh attack on his thread.  It is one thing to come out and say you don't agree with someone's POV.  It is another to come out and say that it is "bullshit".



-- Modified on 7/21/2004 1:17:50 AM

I always read them too although they don't "annoy me badly" I don't find much of worth in them and I do wonder about the motivation of this anonymous person posting them. If I have to continue reading them, I too would like to hear something positive or something about mother/son, etc.

MM

Reon't throw stones at glass houses

Yes it is.

Basically it all comes down to choice. To agree or disagree is a part of our lives daily, how we represent ourselves is the way we appear to all others and is the result of how we are then treated.
" Since we tend to see ourselves primarily in the light of our intentions, which are invisible to others, while we see others mainly in the light of their actions, which are all that's visible to us, we have a situation which misunderstanding and
injustice are the order of the day."  J.G. Bennett
Everything is perception.

Reon't throw stones at glass houses

I think you missed the point of my post. I asked if Truth Speaker was a man or woman to better understand from where he or she is coming. For example, I honestly do not think I could post an accurate reflection of a mother/son relationship, because I am neither a mother nor a son. That's ALL I meant. And as far as my provider identity goes, that's totally irrelevant as I am officially delisted from TER as well as retired.

Just because I said I think your posts are bullshit doesn't mean that I think you or anyone else here is a *bad* person. In the grand scheme of life, my opinion is just that - *my* opinion. I know there are dozens and dozens of people on this board who skip right over my posts, because they cannot stand me. That's fine. Again, I don't think you're a bad guy. I just happen to wonder about the posts.

You had several, but the one you expressed most strongly was that you felt TS's posts were BS.  That was a great part of what I countered.

As for your identity, I didn't care about that.  I only was stating that as your identity wasn't critical to your posts on here, TS's gender was not critical to the accuracy of his thread.  There is enough data availiable in books and the like for anyone to write on this subject, and it seems from his post that he has been exposed to this issue quite strongly.  If he was a woman, he may have a "personal" take on it, but it wouldn't necessarily be more accurate or universally applicable.