A provider advertises regularly with separate rates for incall and outcall. After a little bit of research and a few emails you are ready to schedule. You call to make a 2 hour incall appointment and she tells you she doesn't currently have an incall location but would be happy to visit you at your house. You decline and say her ads led you to believe that incall was available. She says she could get a hotel room but sounds a bit reluctant to do so. You offer to get a room yourself and save her the trouble. She agrees and sounds excited with this resolution. You make the 2 hour appointment.

In this example her rate for a 2 hour outcall appointment is an additional 100 over her incall rate. Again, you wanted incall. It wasn't available. You provided a location yourself, thinking you were doing her a favor. What do you put in the envelope...her incall rate, or her outcall rate?

Ladies, which rate do you expect to see in the envelope in this situation?

In a perfect world everything would be discussed prior to the appointment to ensure both parties have the same understandings and expectations of how things will go. It's not a perfect world. So please only base input on the scenario provided. Thank you

An SAT question.

 
Thank you  
2015 = 28

Honestly, I'd think that once you're screened and verified, you could discuss this issue with her.  I'm loathe to discuss payment issues at the time of a meeting and prefer to have everything set up before hand.  It makes things easier.

That being said, technically, she's doing an outcall. But she doesn't offer incall as advertised..  But, you discussed this with her and provided the room, so I'd honestly think she'd give you her incall rate since she didn't have to fork over for the room.  

honestly though, i think its misleading that her ad states she offers incall when she actually doesnt.  it seems more than a bit manipulative.

you were getting the hotel that you would expect that at the very least her incall rate would apply?

That seems like the very least she could agree to since you are ponying up for the room

In a perfect world everything would be discussed prior to the appointment to ensure both parties have the same understandings and expectations of how things will go. It's not a perfect world. So please only base input on the scenario provided. Thank you!

her by asking that since incall is not available, would you be willing to waive the outcall fees (if it's not out of her way)?

Providers have different ways of doing things. I wouldn't assume nothing. That said, with a 2-hr appointment, a better outcome is in a favor of both parties.

Her screening turned out to be just for show. She asked for a reference and I gave her one but she never checked it. She said our conversations made her feel comfortable with me so she didn't follow through. She also has a reputation for being very cautious before you actually meet her. And specifically told me she didn't want to discuss things in much detail until we were face to face. Not that I was trying to...I wasn't. She's just cautious to the point of being paranoid. So as much as I had something that needed to be addressed ahead of time, I let her have her way hoping not to ruin something that could have turned out to be a good thing.  

Another thing she did was repeatedly tell me that she only sees one gent a day. I'm not sure why, because I never asked. Conversation never steered in that direction, so it was very strange and random. BUT, I'm thinking if she was willing to fork out 100 on a room for 2 hours just to see me, 500-100= 400. She didn't have a room, I took care of it...she should be happy with 500, her incall rate. That's more than she would've walked away with otherwise. Instead, before we got started she told me I was 100 short. I tried to explain the math, and her argument was that if she got the room she would be able to keep it for the night and hang out with her friends. In fact, I was still giving her enough to go get her own room and come out exactly the same as if she'd provided incall in the first place. That didn't matter. The fact that I used hotel points meant I got the room for free in her eyes. I don't know how many nights I had to stay out of town to earn those 20000 points, but I assure you the value I place on my time away from home is more than the $199 value that Hilton puts on it. Anyway, I was going into this OK with a tab of 500. With the room I'm up to 700. If I give her another 100 then I'm at 800. All I'm going to say for now is that what happened last night was in no way, shape or form worth 800.

More on how it ended later...maybe.

If you clearly request an incall and she says she doesn't have an incall available and you need to pay for a room for an appointment I would think it defaults to your original request.

But I'm interested to read what the ladies have to say.

... and it does not exactly sound like a good time was had by all based on the not so subtle hint the OP dropped.  
Of course if his date felt stiffed at the outset and it got a little contentious (having to talk about being shorted in the beginning is not textbook foreplay) then he probably didn't get her best.  Sounds like a lesson learned the hard way

Okay like you said in a perfect world you would have been able to discuss the difference in rate before the appt.But since it is not a perfect world I am going to answer based just on what you described.
In my opinion you should have put in the envelope her incall rate.
She advertised incall you reached out to her with interest of incall.She did not want to get a room for whatever reason even though she advertises she has an incall.

Once you suggested getting a room and she agreed the incall rate should have been sufficient not her outcall rate.If she wanted to insure her outcall rate she should have mentioned even though you are getting the accommodations she still expects her outcall rate.At that point you could have decided if you wanted to pay additional money on top of the room you paid for or not go through with the appt.I know you mentioned you had points but you could have used them at another occasion.

Her response when checking the envelope says she is not that paranoid to discuss rates when she realized you had not paid the outcall rate.Her reasoning being if she got an incall she could have kept it for the night and hung out w/friends afterwards.That is not your problem.And she should have just taken the incall rate and been done with it.Or at least got that worked out before the appt.
Once she mentioned you shorted her and you are trying to explain the math to her it sounds like the appt was already off to a bad start.

-- Modified on 9/13/2015 7:39:39 PM

If she doesn't have a fixed incall and especially if she only sees one date per day...

She has to travel either way, and incall she pays for the room? Weird.

END OF MESSAGE

-- Modified on 9/13/2015 10:17:35 PM

END OF MESSAGE

-- Modified on 9/13/2015 8:09:37 PM

Hooker math.  

Do I really need to say anything more on the subject?

I ran into a similar situation with a lady that advertised offering incall in a local ad.  I contacted her to schedule an appointment and she came back and asked if I could get the hotel room.  After exchanging several texts, I came to the conclusion it wasn't worth it to pursue the appointment because of exactly the same issue as the OP.  I didn't think it was right for me to foot the bill for the room and I didn't want to have the discussion with her, so I just punted.  Sometimes you gotta know when to just fold 'em.

Ladies, please be aware of what you put in your ads.  Some of us actually do read them.  Don't advertise incall if you really don't intend to offer it.

END OF MESSAGE

Communicate. Communicate. Talk. No in all, move on. She offers to get room, let her. I wouldn't put it on me unless I asked if I got her I call rate because it was in her add. She gets the room, you pay incall. I would think you only pay the incall rate if you got the room if you talked about it before hand. How did that evening turn out

I can only speak for myself and hope that I can do it succinctly and with clarification.

First of all; what would I expect?  I would expect to provide my own incall if I advertised that I had incall available.  I would NEVER talk to the gentleman about my business.  If I knew that at the time of the phone call, I could not provide adequate incall, I would say that I was unavailable.  If I chose to see the gentleman, after full disclosure of the knowledge that he wanted incall, I would find a way to provide it.  I would cut my losses, but I would count my gifts... my own hotel room for the night and a four hundred dollar profit.  

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Knowing..... that there are gifted providers out there who deal in integrity with respect for themselves and for the people they meet.....  

I would question the OP.  The hobbyist is the one with the power and ability to CHOOSE.  Instead of coming on the boards and asking if the TER community can count him as right...  If I were the OP, I'd be looking in my little hobby mirror and asking myself...

Why THAT provider?  What was it about her that made me overlook my sense of choice, my knowledge that I can pick virtually who ever I want to pick, my sense of logic that if I need to start negotiating rates from the outset, I'm probably not going to have the best time ever.. and just doggedly pursue the one, that I knew intuitively from the getgo I would not fully enjoy.  I would be asking that question.  

She wasn't the only girl on the boards.  She wasn't your only choice.  But you wanted THAT one.  You wanted her so much that you were willing to bend over backward to make it happen.  Okay... there's nothing wrong with that either.  I would expect my most worthy and trusted gentleman friends to treat me the same way.  (As a matter of fact, I ask a deposit for every appointment I make.  Some men gladly pay it, some don't and move on to the next.)  

But, if it ever got down to that point in time, like you said, only respond to the scenario that YOU posted in the very first post...  If I ever found myself in that situation...  

No matter what the discussion was, no matter what I advertised...  If I'm coming to YOUR HOTEL ROOM... (which in your original post, barring the conversations before hand which none of us were privy to you admitted that it was, in fact YOUR Hotel room, regardless of the fact that you were paying for it only to see her... )  

If I come to YOUR HOTEL room....  this is an outcall situation for me.  You went into your "hobbyist math" for all to see on the boards.  But as a provider, I'm NOT counting your money.  I'm not balancing your books.  

You did what you CHOSE to do in order to see a provider that You CHOSE to see of your own free will.  It is not that providers job to count your costs.  She charged a certain amount for OUTCALL.  Coming to your hotel room is OUTCALL!!

So, you didn't get your 800 dollars worth.  Write it up in a review and don't ever see her again.  But you knew what the outcall rate is, and hopefully you're experienced enough to know the definition of outcall.  

You don't like her ad methods.. too bad.  You don't like her vague coversation... too bad.  You didn't like her performance... to bad.  

The bottom line is: You were in an outcall situation.  You should have an envelope that reflected an outcall situation.  

You are in the wrong.  

Go write a review.  Don't see her again.  But, in my estimation, you owe her 100.00.

And, yep.... like GaGambler says... "Provider Math"...  You'd probably be wise to learn it.

Your special someone

Think I will lead off my next playdate with some of this sweet talk.  I think she's gonna dig it!  
LMAO

I appreciate your opinion, Gia. I only offered to take care of the hotel because she wasn't sounding enthusiastic about getting a room herself. It's not like I said, "Hey!!! I know!!! I'll get the room myself!! It will be at one of the same hotels you use for incall! AND I'll give you an extra 100 for letting me make sure you are able to work tomorrow night!!! How's that???"

Not words you'll ever hear me say!

Now, she counts her 500 and wants her outcall rate...300/hr. Would I be wrong to take back 200 and change the appointment to one hour instead of two? I know I said I wanted 2 hours. Sort of like she advertises an incall rate/availability. Surely if she can mislead me, I can mislead her, even though I'd rather not be playing these kind of games.

Not really.

END OF MESSAGE

hitting a jackpot than you had a non-inflated 7 - Hot time or better with the said provider. lol  

What with the suspense with maybe, by the way?!

-- Modified on 9/13/2015 10:11:50 PM

END OF MESSAGE

But you say that you'd rather not be playing these kind of games.

But I believe you are not being honest.  You DO want to play these kinds of games, because you ARE playing these games and only YOU have the power and the choice to STOP playing these kinds of the games.  Choose a better provider next time.  If you want a provider who places an ad that says incall is available and who actually follows through with having incall available.....  then don't pay for a provider who, in fact, does not have incall available and who, in fact gets you to pay for a spot that you say you didn't want to pay for.  If you don't want to play those games... then my best advice to you is... well... DON'T play them.  
But if you do want to play them...  

Nothing wrong with it ... she's got her money, and you've got some TER board attention.  

You know you can choose more wisely next time.  And yes, you would be wrong to ask and schedule for two hours and then "take back" money because you are playing games you yourself are saying you don't want to play.  Yes, you know that you'd be wrong

END OF MESSAGE

Paralegals - they tend to be really hot!  Maybe you should hit that!

Then get a restraining order.  You probably know the judge so you can get that order signed off really quick.
Lol

I guess since your reviews were exposed as lies.
So now your upset trying to make up more lies.
You really sound like you need your meds now.

I think maybe the tone changes from incall (didn't want to) to outcall (excited) were based on the extra money she'd get for outcall, not her actual desire to reserve a room herself. Kind of manipulative.  

If I said something like I really don't feel like getting a room and the guy offered to do it I would at the very least know that getting incall rate was possible if not probable. The higher outcall rate is really for the guy who has a room, wants door to door service and also for the added risk of being in someone else's room where God knows what awaits me.

Get the room yourself, and give her the outcall rate since she is coming to you.   Then if you think future meetings will happen, talk about those arrangements.

When I ask for incall, don't say you can come to my house. Don't say you guess you could get one if you really had to. Say I don't have a room right now but I will be happy to get one. Is that not simple enough?  

Also, instead of advertising incall 250/hr, outcall 300/hr, how about stating in your ads that incall is available on a limited basis only if you don't have a permanent location to use? Is that not simple enough?

Screw the outcall rate, she's coming to me BS! She uses the same hotel for incall, when she has one. Sometimes. Whenever that is. Who in their right mind would offer to get a room at one of her preferred locations and throw in an extra 100 for the privilege? Is that not simple enough?

She got her outcall rate in the end. I agreed to hit the ATM after we discussed the situation in the beginning, knowing things wouldn't be good if I didn't. But guess what. She was fine, but all I could think about the entire time was that this girl thought I was trying to rip her off. I wasn't. So just over an hour into it I get dressed and ask her to get ready to go to Wawa. I get her the 100 and she leaves with her driver. The end. Those that PMd me got the more detailed version.  The version where I explain how this wasn't even a full service or GFE appointment. But I made sure she got exactly what she came for, and she made sure I will never see her again. So 500 turned into 800 and 2 hours turned into 70 minutes. She calls that a misunderstanding. LOL!!  

So how was everyone else's weekend?

END OF MESSAGE

When and where have my reviews exposed as lies?

I never had any lady complain to TER about them.

So show us proof of what you say, and if you cannot that is proof you are lying.

You do realize that by your accusation of my reviews being lies you are accusing TER of lacking integrity by TER allowing my reviews to be posted.

 
You're Welcome

BTW I trust you will congratulate your ATF on her accomplishment

and he is also unfortunately quite correct in his assumptions.

At least for me. I don't shit in my own neck of the woods, so outcall for me takes time. I like the driving etc, but it does take up a lot of prime time should I want to fill up a slot in my hotel stay. Also, the paying for my parking, gas, and the taxi from the garage to them, (that's the $100 fee,) is a huge turn on to me. If I have an incall, I can turn myself on before they get there. Outcall? I appreciate the extra care to feel special.

But I also do a 90 minute minimum incall, so in order to even get to incall with me you have to pay more up front. I get an incall, I have a couple of ppl who I've been seeing for a long time who book extended dates, but like a lunch quickie every so often. So we have a little deal where I'll do a one hour with them (at full rate) if I call and say "Hey I have an incall near you, want to come over for a lunch break?" They usually do, and it pays for the incall fees, plus a couple hundred extra.

But for a 2 hour outcall, I charge the fee because i can't pull in any other dates, and I'm tired as fuck after the hassle. I enjoy them, but don't want to do anything afterwards - no thanks.

-- Modified on 9/14/2015 11:38:41 AM

It's hard to only give input based on the scenario provided, as it makes no sense.  The simple question on whether it would be an incall or outcall fee should have been asked.  Because if she talked to you, you got a hotel, she felt 'comfy', ect - you could of asked.  Or tried, and if she wouldn't tell you - don't book with her or bring enough to cover both, knowing you might pay more.

You didn't know how much to bring, so you brought the base amount.  So not knowing, you decided what you would pay or else you wouldn't of had to run to the ATM.  Obviously, the $100.00 was an issue for you - why set yourself up for a possible bad time?

Asking other providers what they expect is moot - everyone is different.  I personally stopped charging an incall/outcall fee.  Longer appointments may be necessary instead if it is far.  I have a one price model, no extra fee's ect.  Other ladies have different policies.  And we are ALL right, cause it's our business, just as you have a right to choose your provider based on her business model.

Learn from this, do better research, and take some responsibility

It's all about making someone upgrade to something seemingly more special. (In the OP's case, it's a little different situation, but I mean when a guy is selecting what he wants from what's offered, and it's available.)

You get the people who won't set foot in Walmart because they're "better than that". So they go to Walgreen's and Jewel, paying much higher prices. It's way more convenient, all closer together, and you don't have to trip over a bunch of small kids and mothers with their ass crack and love handles hanging out while texting and running into your cart as you pick out your cheddar cheese.

So the more premium stores have the same products, but a different experience. Faster registers, less idiots, and more convenient placement of items.

So last night I had fucking awesome sex - a fantastic orgasm, made him cum twice, and we were worn out. I went to him. At the end of the session, he said " I'm lucky. I just get to roll over and go to sleep. You have to drive home.

Yup. That's what you're paying for. Walmart gets a lot of customers, but those customers have to work and stress for those deals.

I've had guys so adamant about not paying the outcall fee, they jump through a lot of hoops to get to my incall. Taking time in planning public transportation, getting ready to come and get ready to go when they're done. They have to find the place, make updates on arrival time, push through people - when they already have a room because they're traveling!!!

The guy who just pays the fee waits in the room. A girl shows up. She leaves and he rolls over and goes to bed.

Some people are willing to work for it. Others are willing to pay for the luxury.  

All in all, what many girls understand, is what the guy is getting when he pays more. After all, the service is not about us, its about them. And so are the prices.


-- Modified on 9/14/2015 2:36:52 PM

the only thing I can see her still charging for an outcall, would be the fact that she doesn't get to use the room for other dates. She's still showing up at your place and can't utilize it for other dates. (Unless you decide to let her keep the room, but then she's seeing people in a facility you provided, which is risking pimping status for you. Not a good idea.)

So she can't just roll over and go to sleep, and she can't make money off of the room.

I think the best way to handle it, is to pass until she has an incall available. I advertise incall and outcall for Chicago and Oak Brook. But it's as needed with notice. Not sure how much notice you gave her, but I would need 24 hours, as it can be a circus trying to book a good hotel with no other clients scheduled, or no time to line up other dates - even if someone else pays for the room.

But if you took the time to study up, and booked what was advertised, and I couldn't provide it, my way of dealing with it would be "Sorry, I'm not available for incall that date and time. I can only do outcalls until yada yada." If you say "No, I can't do outcalls," I say, "Ok no problem" then offer a pre-screening good for 2 weeks,  or maybe we can make it work then - blah blah blah.

In this case though she offered you outcall to your place. She was specific. And you offered to pay for a room - (not an incall, but a place for you to host her).

I would be willing to communicate about it without seeing it as haggling, because I offered the outcall. It depends on the tone of the email communication as well, because if I see an attitude I may just reject the date and say 'sorry next time when it works better.'

But I also understand the feeling where you may think the girl is doing it on purpose, and possibly deceived in her ads to attract the client and then drop the bomb.

Given the situation it wouldn't be haggling (not to me) if you simply ask her. If she gets mad, your question is very valid. But I wouldn't ask to take the hotel rate off of the price. Just ask about incall or outcall rate and you should be fine. Lots of room for confusion on both ends here, so you'll need to communicate to make sure both are clear.

-- Modified on 9/14/2015 3:18:29 PM

Not once at any time prior to meeting this girl did I ever plan on, nor have any desire to pay anything additional for outcall. I thought I made that clear. I had no intent on this ever turning into an outcall meeting.  

It's like this. I was away on vacation trying to set this up to happen upon my return home. The girl was funny with communication, keeping conversations limited, etc. until we met. The choices are limited where I live and she actually seemed like a pretty good one at the time. Jumped through her hoops for screening, which she never checked come to find out because she said she felt comfortable with me. How that was the case is beyond me. Why she had a pimp/driver/cousin/boyfriend waiting in the parking lot tells a different story, as did my experience in general with this girl after we met.

I'm getting ahead of myself. But when I called to make the appointment, I asked for incall. She said she didn't have a room and acted like it would be a hassle to get one. She asked me where I live and told me how much she preferred to go to gent's houses. Screw that! Not gonna happen. So SHE brought up outcall in lieu of incall when I asked her to host. There was no mention that she was going to charge me more for HER suggestion, other than her ad. Outcall was HER idea. I only offered to get the room myself to move things along to make it happen. Why anyone would think I should pay extra in this situation is beyond me. No, I never intended to pay any more than 500 + tip if warranted. I didn't plan on getting a room either, so when I made that offer I was already extending this beyond what I planned to. Then she shows up wanting more money! When outcall was her idea, for her convenience, not mine. I genuinely thought I was was helping her out. Not setting myself up to pay for the privilege of helping her.

END OF MESSAGE

So, to wrap this up, her rates were advertised as $250/hr for incall and $300/hr for outcall, and you eventually agreed to the 2 hour outcall rate in advance, but seemingly tried to short her envelope by $100, and then after getting her the final $100 you agreed to, you sent her on her way 70 minutes into the meeting without getting all you planned for after paying $200 for a hotel room?  Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your above post, but if you agreed to the $300/hr outcall rate, why did did you short the envelope?  Frankly, if I were you, I would have also pushed for the incall rate, OR postponed the meeting until she had an incall available... but once (IF so) you agreed to this rate, then you have no one to blame but yourself if she got angry when the envelope was short -- as that is a tough way to begin a new friendship.  LOL    

 
-- Modified on 9/14/2015 9:19:28 AM

-- Modified on 9/14/2015 9:25:01 AM

i've seen many escort sites with unclear info regarding rates.  

Sounds like your experience broke my #1 rule: If it ain't easy, I ain't doing it.

Why all the intrigue? Just ask. Of course she will probably want the higher donation. You either pay it, or offer to meet her halfway or say no deal. You're not dating and there is no need for leaving things unsaid. Period.

I think she is being unreasonable & you should have negotiated this ahead of time.

So all of you reviews are btw 2004-2006???
Then you are more trying to bring TER into it? Lol
It just shows how slick you are clown.

Just like I said before every one of your comments keeps proving my points about you.
My reviews are up and they are from this year smart guy.
I guess we cannot say the same about you.

END OF MESSAGE

aka fatgirl.
You little boy were the one who said my reviews were lies, and I challenged you to prove your accusation.
you did not prove it because you cannot prove it therefore your accusation is a lie.

The fact that my reviews are between 2004 to 2006 just proves that they are 9 to 11 years old it does not prove show or indicate they are lies. Perhaps because you are  intellectually deficient when you think that way.

Again the fact that you make the accusation that my reviews are lies means that you are indirectly accusing TER of allowing reviews that are lies to be posted. Therefore you are saying that TER has no Integrity.

So tell us, since you made the accusation, what is it that you think are lies?
How do you know they are lies?
Prove that my reviews are lies.
C'mon be a man for a change and directly answer the questions, don't divert from the issue, that shows cowardice, give us the evidence prove what you say.
You made the accusation  PROVE IT or have the guts to admit you lied.

Yes your reviews are up (BOTH OF THEM) and they are from this year....What does that prove ? I'll tell ya what it proves. It proves that you submitted two reviews this year and they were posted. Nothing more, nothing less. Both are lovely ladies I hope you tipped them well.

Now you go ahead and put your dishonest, distorted misguided spin on it and have the last word as I know you will however, I really doubt that you are man enough to directly address the issue of my reviews being lies and give us all proof of what you say.

 
You're Welcome
2015 = 28

BTW we have all noticed that in many of your posts you have gone out of your way to emphasize and even over-emphasize
that you like women that were born as women to the point that it really looks like you are hiding and or covering up something. Just an observation by many on the boards, there is a lot of back channel chatter about you and ....well....