Guys, how many times have you heard your buddies say "I"d never pay for it!". Now that we are all the time, how does it feel? Is it a turn on, or a necessary evil? Does it make you feel like you are picking from the Harem for the night, or like a desperate loser? Do you enjoy the rush of seeing a new woman's body for the first time, again, or does it make you long for the days of dating and simple fun?

Although it's exciting to meet new women, I still feel like a loser.  I do this because I know my limitations and I'm not successful with women.  So I quit that route. It would definately be better to get it for free and have them spend money on me and chauffeur me around like I've seen women do with other guys.  But that's my handicap and I have to live with it.  Some people are born winners and some born losers.  I'm thankful at 55 I'm healthy, financially secure and can still get it up without help.

My situation might be somewhat different.
Being single, I prefer to have arranged dates.
I tried dating "out there" and found too many
hidden agendas.
I am not unattractive or socially clumsy.
Also, the GREAT VARIETY keeps me young.
Just my .02

20 of those years, the marriage was very good for both of us.  So I feel like I've had that aspect of life - the successful marriage.  It was terrific.  But now I'm in another phase of my life, and it's one I am enjoying very much.  Now I enjoy living alone and having a lot of friends.

The providers are for physical, sexual release, and are often very interesting as people too.  No agendas, just a simple and honest exchange of sex for money, and some interesting conversation.

I am also something of a rebel, very independent-minded, and enjoy being an outlaw.

Don't believe any guy who says " I never pay for it"! We all do and the married ones pay even more!

As a happy married (20+ years) guy who wants his cake and eat it too in terms of extracurricular sex paying for it on a transaction basis is better in every way.

First off the time, energy , not to say risk, it would take me to have an affair with equivalent wonderful women is beyond conception.  And you know what it would probably be far more expensive at the end.  So first off Providers are the most cost effective open.

Second I don’t want attachments, I don’t want complications, I don’t want “Fatal Attraction”.  I just want some variety in my sex life.  From a relationship standpoint there would be an order of magnitude difference if my wife found out I was boinking a co-worker, one of her friends or someone on a personal level.  If she found out about my hobby no doubt there would be some hell to pay but there’s a “boys will be boys” box I think she could put that into. There’s almost a Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell around this.  So second off Providers are the most sane option.

But here’s the main reason…

For me sex with someone you love is wonderful and different than with a provider.  My wife and I have a good sex life, we have some fun and interesting places we explore and all things considered I’ve got everything to be thankful for.  Part of this is taking care of each others needs, I care if she gets her O, I’m aware of her pleasure and within the context of a relationship this is the give and take that makes sex good and things work out overall.  We take care of each other.

Sex with a good Provider is about me, my pleasure. It’s selfish in the most wonderful way, like a massage, or great service & food at a restaurant.  There are the posts here about Providers getting their Big O, seems in reviews most guys get very proud of this (I’d never suggest that what we have here are male egos and not female libidos) and all the pleasure they bring their Providers.  That’s just dandy.  Me I want to be a real gentleman who treats someone with affection – I don’t want time with me to be unpleasant.  I also want to be with someone who seems relaxed and in the mood with me.  I *know* it’s her job but I’ve had the “just f**k me and get it over” lay and that’s no fun.  But within that it’s all about me and that’s a wonderful experience that the great Providers know how to deliver.  I asked an ATF once if I was considerate enough of her after reading a TER discussion and she said “Don’t worry about that, if you are happy, I am happy”. That’s why she’s an ATF.

Largely because of TER and doing my homework I’ve learned that there are some amazing women in this profession.  Frankly I don’t know how you girls do it but the great ones are just relaxed and in the space with me in the most wonderful way.  It’s not that I think you’re crazy with desire for me, but you do seem to be in the groove and in the moment with me.  It’s not that you moan “f**k me baby” over and over, but you do let me know that things are OK for you as we ride my wave.  This is an art and a gift some of you have and I consider myself a very lucky man to have experienced it.  Is this worth paying for. You bet – every red cent.  But it’s no better or worse than the free sex in a good relationship.  It’s just different, IMHO *very* different.

I have always HAted those strutting, chest-pounding assholes who constantly bellow their mantra "I'll never pay for it". If you bought the lady a Big Mac & a coke you essentially paid for it.
  I don't like gambling and I don't like "settling" for less than I set out for. I'd rather just pay up front and get the hottie that I want and leave the civilian hypocrits to their hidden agendas and games of deceit.

 IAATM,

   Cm.


-- Modified on 3/16/2004 10:19:33 PM

As much as you seem to think that men are so taken advantage of by our system, as we always have to "pay" for it, try date rape, wife beating, Deadbeat Dads, or Male Midlife Crisis (i.e., dumping your 45 year old wie for a 25 year old hottie who likes your money) out for size.

There may be many women who have abused the priveleges their femininity bring, but men are certainly not any more worse off.  You just need to have the right people in your life, regardless of your gender.

"Positiveman" (yuk!)

I agree with the posters who stated that everyone pays for it.  Is paying a professional for it more fun than paying a civilian in some other way?  I'm not sure I would describe it that way.  However, it is definitely a much simpler transaction.  We both know what to expect.  No complications from some dating game or jeaslousy and no need to listen to her endlessly whine about problems or improving the relationship.  No I don't feel like a loser.  I feel quite fortunate to be able to occasionally use these services.  And I definitely enjoy the variety.

All you've said MSD is unfortunately common, however it seems to me that our friendly cynic was merely pointing out that in the arena of courting the man is (traditionally) essentialy ``paying for it''.  And those guys that deny this are only stroking themselves.  

So, why not cut through the red tape and get a hottie one would most likely (for a variety of reasons) not have access to (my version).

But hey I may be blinded by my own cynicism.

Many valid points brought up my different posters. My own experience is being happily married for 30 years and using escorts for the past two years on a biweekly basis. Wife's libido has waned to the point of sex maybe twice a month and therefor the escorts. No matter how beautiful the providers have been or how pleasant they have been to be with I am still left with a feeling of "why did I waste my money for that". I guess I like something more than just sex but that has got in me in trouble from the standpoint of becoming to attached to a particular provider. No easy answers just my2 cents worth.

No but it's easier. Particularly if you have an SO, some disposable income, are only looking for some variety, and need "discrete" companionship. I ran all those players games when I was younger and single, bedded women for sport and conquest, and spent plenty of dough doing it.

The equation is basically the same, guys end up "paying for it" one way or the other. MfSD>>>>

You're responding to "cynicalman" - I'm "cynic," and I'm not part of this thread.

Me thinks our friend MSD has been watching to much Oprah and hanging around to many radical feminists.

  MSD your points about wrongs commited on women by men are valid points but not really relevent to this light hearted discussion of to pay or not to pay.

Lighten up dude!

  Cm.

It makes ME feel like a desperate loser, to "have to pay for it." I only hobby because I sense that's the only way to get women who are beautiful enough to turn me on, to actually go to bed with me. I wish it weren't the case that I "didn't have to" hobby -- all expressions used advisedly. I mean, I'm sure I could simply have sex with less physically stunning civilian dates, and I have tried that route, but it has led to a less fulfilling life. Or, I could simply forego sexuality until a civilian date turned out to also be hot-looking enough for my preferences, but so far the wait has been a long one. Or, I could try to change my preferences, believing that women who are initially not physically appealing to me might modify in my assessment as I got to know them better -- I've actually tried that, and it didn't work, they remained as unappealing throughout the process of finding out what great people they were, and it was all the more unhappy to have to realize my hard-wiring requirement of a certain level of beauty was preventing an otherwise wonderful liason from coming to fruition. So, I only hobby because that's my access to beauty, and that makes me feel like a real loser.

I don't deny that plenty of other men aren't in the same circumstances. Many of them like to hobby because it gives them a type of rapid turn-around, or a type of lack of emotional connection (I actually like the connection, personally), or any of a number of other advantages. I'm not like that.

I generally have the same concept rattling around in my head, "why did I waste money for that?" immediately after seeing a provider. I can surely logically understand the advantages, but it always seems a let-down. See my other post in this thread, to see perhaps why ...

Well, for me sex is better when its done just because you both want it, money really ruins a lot of it, but it does give you the cance to know what its like to have sex with women who usually would not give you the time of day.  Or to satisfy fantasies.  I mean my S.O. may be less refined in her technique than some providers, But she does it because she wants to and loves to, not because its her job to do.  Doing it because you are paid to do it is not the same as doing it because you want to do it.

Problem is you are buying a 1 or 2 hour fantasy with a provider, not reality.  Reality is far more satisfying. But sometimes fantasies are nice too.

My clients are NOT losers, and neither are the ones who see my friends (we've discussed that topic often.)

Most of my clients are married and simply are looking for sexual variety and adventure. Although I am very fond of most of my clients, there is no chance it will go any farther to break up an established marriage. So, it's no-strings fun, pure and simple.

As a woman, I can tell you it is a psychologically devastating for my husband to have an affair with a co-worker. It is much easier to understand and forgive a guy if he was with a call girl or a one night stand on a business trip.

The few single men I see are simply too busy building their careers to spend time in bars; or they may travel a lot and are hardly at home. Yes, occasionally there are some unattractive guys who simply will never get a cute girlfriend, but overall that's rare.

So, from my experience, you guys are great --you just want a litte fun, and I enjoy providing that for you.

Hear Hear

You and easy have exactly described me, and I'm sure many others.

It's all about adventure, variety and more adventure.

Occassionally, local ladies I meet will flirt, so I know I'm not too distasteful, although I'm too old for most cute young things to give a second look. But I occassionally dabble in the hobby for fun, adventure and a little variety.

It adds some spice to my life.

I don't feel like a loser at all.

-- Modified on 3/18/2004 5:15:13 AM

Whether it is the thrill of the "conquest" or the equivalent of an "Advance to GO" chance card that lets you get RIGHT to the fun stuff, no muss no fuss, and not having to make our needs secondary ("No, REALLY I don't need to have sex tonight, I would MUCH rather here you complain about how rough your day at the office was for the next three hours instead......")

The greenbacks are just the "great equalizer" that allows us to get who we want, when we want, and how we want it.......

I think a lot of men are too proud to admit that they would or have paid for it.  For whatever reason I think we as men have this thing that the only guys who pay for it are those that can't get laid for free.  Thats BS. Guys who pay for it simply want the sexual experience without all the other things associated with relationships. Not that relationships are bad but sometimes you just want to try something different.  Being with a provider sure beats the heck out of hooking up with some chick at a bar or a co worker.  Doing that can be a lot more expensive then being with a few providers a couple of times a year.

Don't mind paying for it in the least. I am about two years out of a 13 year relationship with a wonderful gal. Thought I was ready to get back into dating and proceed with starting a new long term relationship. I love being in a relationship and believe it or not guys, I find that a woman completes me in many ways through her differing perspectives and views on life and other issues. I jumped back into dating with both feet. Quickly found that all the game playing, deceit, burdensome expectations, etc. that are often associated with dating do not change over time. In some ways it almost seems that things may have gotten worse as I think some people start feeling a little more desperate about "capturing" their next guy/husband or we have become too rigid in our needs and/or expectations of others as we have grown older. At any rate, I am either at a point of not being ready yet to begin serious dating or just find all the nonsense associated with the task too boring and tiresome. Since I can afford to pay for time from some fascinating and wonderfully fun women without all of the other BS to worry about, I have at it. Don't mind spending time with them in a variety of social situations either beyond the "play" activities as most of these ladies are not only wonderful company, but we can share time and experiences in a very relaxed manner as neither of us has any burdensome expectations of the other.

I love meeting hot girls that probably would never be with me if not for the hobby. Sometimes I do feel why am I paying for it but its all really the same. When your not paying for it, your still giving in some other way, so its kind of all the same thing except not the same, If you know what I mean {

For me, its very fun to meet Hot new women in person and then actually have relations. I don't really date and I hate the bar/club scene so I don't frequent that. The hobby has also boosted my self-confidence I believe. The ladies I've seen are very sweet and I love that. I honestly believe that all at one time or another told the truth when they were with me.

I've heard this quote atrtributed to everyone from Clark Gable to Charlie Sheen, but whoever said it, he was accurate from my standpoint.  Very interesting and fun ladies, but I'm not looking for a relationship.

Everyone except for you knew I was talking to Cynicalman...the flow of the thread is self-explanatory.  Excuse me for using a shortended name.

-- Modified on 3/17/2004 11:48:52 PM

What is the difference of having an affair and spending lots of money on the woman for dinner and gifts and paying the woman for companionship?  I believe there is a big difference when there is a SO in the picture.  The affair can indicate there is a mutual attachment between the two people.  The affair usually will break up the marriage.  I do believe the wife should find it easier to accept a provider in the picture.  The affair and the divorce are much more expensive than the companionship with a provider.  It is easier to break up the relationship with the provider than in the affair.

I was faithful during the first 25 years of my marriage, but my wife has her own issues to solve.  We are still together, after 40 years of marriage, with the understanding of  “For better or worse and in sickness and in health”.  We have not had sex for over 8 years and we have slept in separate bedrooms for the past 1 ½ years.  I have never had an affair during my 40 year marriage, but providers have helped me keep my sanity.  They have also taught me many of the finer parts of intimate companionship.

I believe that women differ from men on this subject.  We had several discussions on this board last fall.  

Question:  Have you ever cheated on your SO.
Answer:  Must be yes, but I do not consider it cheating because it was not an affair.

Question:  Have you ever had an affair.
Answer:  No

Yes, I believe there is a big difference in seeing a provider.  I do not feel guilty during the session or when I go home to my SO.  I am enjoying the parts of life that bring great relaxation to me.  I also got rid of much stress and have enjoyed some wonderful companionship.  I would feel very guilty if I had an affair.

I owe my sanity to the wonderful providers that have shared part of their life with me.  

For some reason when I see terms like "strutting, chest pounding assholes" and "civilian hypocrites with their hidden agendas and games of deceit", I assume it isn't a "lighthearted" post.  Silly me.
I must need to lighten up. :P

I don't hang around any radical feminists...I AM a radical feminist, as well as a supporter of men's rights...in other words, HUMAN rights.  I also don't need to watch a TV show that panders to it's target audience to tell me what I should think about the state of gender relations in the world...my sisters and girlfriends have been blueprints enough for me to know that woman STILL is the nigger of the world (with apologies to John Lennon), no matter how many of you out there are getting socked for alimony.  Ask your sisters sometime what they think.

All I was getting at is that the concept of men "paying for it" if they buy a Big Mac and a Coke  is indicative of a one-sided stereotype, that men have to "buy" sex from women.  We all buy the things we value in life, whether through spending our money, trading in forty hours a week at a job we are uninspired by, or, in the case of some of the scenarios I mention in my original posts, being in a situation where we can be physically or emotionally weaker and potentially abused, oftentimes without sympathy or belief.  When we ascribe roles like this to one or the other of the genders, all it serves to do is drive us further from a common purpose as human beings.  
Also, when we separate orselves from the concept of being "civilians" because of their "hidden agendas and games of deceit", it sells short the majority of people in the world who are doing the best they can in a world that prints precious few instructional booklets.  Just because many people trying to have "normal" relationships play these games doesn't mean it is the validation for our "alternate lifestyle" here on TER.  It never is good to build something up by knocking something else down...bad karma, you know.

Now...as far as lightening up...I agree, paying to see someone who would normally be "out of your league" is one of the BEST uses for money that I can think of.  Fuckin' A!  I am all for it.  However, don't forget to be thankful that you are one of the few who can afford to do it, though.  It is not necessarily an option many of those hypocritical civilians can afford...they are too busy paying for a sick aunt, or putting their id through school when they weren't able to go themselves.  It isn't always a matter of choice.

"my sisters and girlfriends have been blueprints enough for me to know that woman STILL is the nigger of the world"

  Gee'z what F**k'n school of self pity did you and your sisters attend?  Women have SO much power compared to men because of their power OVer men. Only women who have no clue to the power they naturally posses over men feel themselves as "nigger of the world"

  BTW- MSD I'm not at all wealthy and have to budget like crazy to afford the hotties the Hobby offers. Now I ask you; Who is really the "nigger" here??
(excuse me while I do my shopping at Wal-mart so I can hope to afford the hobby)

  Cm.

mature in addition to being chronologically mature) can understand.  Younger people (and older people who have not matured) tend to equate sexual infidelity with emotional infidelity, and often haev trouble understanding the points you make about providers vs affairs.

So if women aren't "smart enough" to use their "power over men" to make life more equitable, it is their own fault, and tough titty.

Thanks for the clarification. And here I thought life was complicated.

Because I'm spending so much money on getting it for free, I can't afford to pay for it anymore.
My Lady expects me to pick up the tab for everything  from dinner to hair styles.

So what are you saying MSD?; That there should be a gov't entitlement program to make women aware of and school them in the use of the "power" I earlier mentioned.
  how did a simple discussion on feelings about
"paying for poon" turn into a heated debate over genderbased victomization.

  Cm.

Reude, whatEVER...we are ALL named John on here!

Whatever you say, John.  I knew who you were refering to, and everyone except you knew that I was just having some fun.  Lighten up!

I am married and pay for it to preclude entanglements and insure discretion.

I would never pay for it if I were single. Too much free stuff available.

YMMV.

I have been guilty before of shooting first and asking questions later (which, in this arena, isn't necessarily a bad thing). :P  Sorry I got up on my soapbox about this.  I know where you come from, and I know it isn't a bad place, so forgive my passion.  I gave all my ganj to someone. :P

OK, this is for you MSD