-- Modified on 9/6/2003 11:13:42 AM

-- Modified on 9/6/2003 11:13:26 AM

"The only difference between tattooed people ans non tattooed people is that non tattooed people are really concerned with what tattooed people put on their body".

That's a pretty funny quote. But that's not the only difference. I have often thought I'd like to get a tattoo, but I've not been able to satisfy myself that I would not be irritated by the ink. I have very sensitive skin and, although I understand that some inks can be hypo-allergenic and all that, I'm still too worried about it to make a permanent choice.

But I don't mind other people having tattoos, as long as it's well within the social norms of the society in which they wish to operate. An investment banker with a giant spider across his face won't do well, probably (or maybe the exotic factor will get him extra clients?); a lawyer with "I fuck hot chicks" on his bicep might be able to hide it, or might find he is not promoted as quickly as he would have wished.

I often find that tattooed people seem to think their visual appearance is their business only. That's incorrect -- other humans assess you on your visual appearance all the time, and if you wish for positive feedback from those humans, you need to give them positive input. So, there's a type of tattoo vigilante out there who simply doesn't "get" what it means to live in civilized society. Most tattooed people aren't like that, but I think many untattooed people tend to assume they are.

I don't mind a discreet or sexy tattoo on a provider, preferably a non-representative one. I find the dolphins, roses with thorns, butterflies, and hello-kitties to be obvious, uncreative, and largely indicative of lower social class and education. Very large amounts of skin covered with ink, prevent me from subconsciously assessing whether or not her skin is appealing to me -- something all males do automatically. Lustrous clear skin is a marker of heatlh and youth, and consequently is an idicator of beauty. But some tattoo that's a relatively small, attractive "tribal" pattern, perhaps on the back of a shoulder or on the lower back, can be a turn-on for me, like Cindy Crawford's mole or some other beauty mark. It's just another target for my lips ... ...

[SOM] = Start Of Message

the kewlest tattoo i ever saw was on a girl who was a friend thrice-removed and a somewhat nerdly but still sexy flat-chested brunette ... through a tattoo "artiste" here in Boston (or wherever it is i live) she had designed and inked a cyber "jack-plug" on the back of her neck (a la The Matrix) ... in both size and style it was not too ostentatious hence rather tasteful IMHO/T (T = taste)

but then again maybe this person never existed and i'm making all this stuff up ... regardless, i have a feeling that since i've put this up on chat boards around the net, by the time the next (last?) sequel comes out you'll see hordes of nerdly Gen-Y'ers flaunting said tattoo -- by which point it will cease to be the kewlest tattoo IMHO/M (M = memory)

"The only difference between tattooed people ans non tattooed people is that non tattooed people are really concerned with what tattooed people put on their body".

Sounds clever, but does it really mean anything? Perhaps that non-tattooed people are more intolerant? It's a broad generalization at best,  made by someone, oddly enough, with a tattoo. Do you think a tattooed member of the Aryan Nation is more tolerant than the average person?

It's just human nature for one person to wonder why another would deliberately mark his or her body when the first person would never consider doing that to himself. I happen to find tattoos unattractive. But at the same time I realize that they are only one part (hopefully !) of that person's physical appearance, and appearance is only a small part (again, hopefully)of the person's identity.

And as for the notion that tattoos are only the concern of the one with the tattoo, I have to ask why people get tattoos on the back of the neck or the small of the back, where they can't see them? I remember George Carlin explaining why he had his ear pierced. He said "I just wanted people to deal with me." It certainly wasn't as some sort of reminder to himself.

"WHO judge people with tattoos. I get it all the time. The stares, the snickers."

Well that's what you bought.  It was there all along, you just didn't see it.

Shaye, you have been a sweetheart to know on the boards.   I only wish we could see you...  YOU not those.  You AREN'T those.  

I suppose I am biased.  But those who put them on are subjecting themselves to the bias and hardly have a leg to stand on if they say they didn't know.  The thing is this isn't a prejudice like raceism, homophobia, etc.  The tattooed person made the decision.  Now you must deal with the likes of me.  And the more you get the more limited you acceptance circle becomes.

when people stare?  Wasn't the reason to get them to attract attention?  I would think you would want people to stare.  And why get upset if people have different tastes than yours.  Tattoos aren't much different than wearing a funny hat; you're going to get a lot of attention, some positive, some negative, but are the people who don't like the hat dispicable?                           But I was really commenting (I thought it was pretty clear) about the fact that the tattoos are going to be there till you die, absent extreme measures, and what if you change your tastes in art?  Most of us went through a rebellious stage in our lives, when we wanted to make a statement about our individuality and rejection of the straight and narrow, but most of us eventually join conventional society.  Someone who at 19 or 20 gets a big, visible tattoo - beautiful or not - has placed serious limitations on their future options.  That's why I said I thought it was short-sighted.  Who knows at 19 what their going to be doing at 30 or 40?            The other point was that IMHO tattoos detract, not enhance, the already perfect female form.  When I look at a beautiful woman I don't want to be distracted from her natural beauty. But I admit that's a completely personal matter.

No .. Tattooing does not equal trash.    But there ARE people like me, who were simply brought up in a time when a tattoo WAS thought to be a sign of a "certain kind" of person and there are many people like that.    It's foolish of someone else to think that just because 'decent' people now get tattoos, that those of us that were brought up in another way of thinking can turn the feeling off, just like a light switch.  You have the Tats, they come with the stares - it's that simple.

I have learned to appreciate a nice tattoo.   MAYBE two.  I can even deal with a piercing or two.   But having said that ... if you're so pierced that you look like you fell down a flight of stairs and head first into a fishing tackle box, you have some severe problems.   Likewise, if you're tattooed like a walking billboard for "Snakes Tattoo Parlor (our motto:  Eagle??? I thought you said BEAGLE!)"  you also have some problems you need to work out.

One or two is self expression.   A dozen of them is a sign that you have problems of self control, self esteem or you're just plain spooky.

"WHAT I REGRET, is biased people like you. WHO judge people with tattoos. I get it all the time. The stares, the snickers.
- Tattoos are a form of self expression."

Yes, they EXPRESS the fact that you are willing to stand outside traditional social norms. Don't expect people who participate more in the traditional norms, to approve of your rejecting them. All humans judge one another, all the time, often on the basis of visual evidence. They may judge wrongly, in which case they have made a mistake. But you've made on as well -- by deliberately seeking situations in which their flawed judgment might have bearing on your own wellbeing; or, by caring enough about their judgment to allow it to affect your wellbeing negatively.

One of the biggest annoyances I have with my junior high kids, is that they wish to dress like hoodlums, act like hoodlums, talk like hoodlums, but then "not be judged" by other people. Duh ... maybe the other people are wrong. Maybe the other people have made some mistakes of stereotypy. But the junior high students have made many more mistakes, and consistently, by providing the idiots of this world with enough misleading evidence in the first place.

Don't wanna be thought of as a hoodlum by others? Don't appear to be one!

Tattoos important enough to you that you want them regardless of someone else's (perhaps flawed) negative judgment of people who have them? Don't care about somene else's judgment!

Duh ...

I'd have to disagree with that on a personal level. Alot of times, sure- people going in to get whatever's most "popular", just to make a fashion statement. However, I put alot of thought into mine. It wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision. It took me years to decide what I wanted, because I wanted something with meaning, personal meaning. I didn't want to be one of those people, as you mentioned, who desired to have their tattoo removed later in life. It's been almost two years since I got my tat, and not once have I regretted the decision, nor do I believe I ever will.

And as for "graffiti"... graffiti (or anything else, for that matter) IS art, with the right perspective

.....which is fine. It seems as someone hit a personal nerve with this thread for you. You bring up some good points about what is considered to be art. Had it not been for the tone of your post, i would have said it was well writen considering your POV. But the question i guess i have is.....If you met someone, got to know them, liked them, and then found out they had a tattoo would you ignore them from that point on because of it? That is part of what i take from your post.

Cardinal said it well in his post, so i'll copy a small portion of it here(the royalty check is in the mail cardinal).....
"I happen to find tattoos unattractive. But at the same time I realize that they are only one part (hopefully !) of that person's physical appearance, and appearance is only a small part (again, hopefully)of the person's identity."

Book_guy also touched on this well, and both are right. We are judged by the way we look everyday, by everyone we see(in many more ways then just tattooes), but that is no tell of who we really are.

Personally, i don't care for the use of an alias. I like to know who i'm taking to. But that doesn't mean your opinion is less because you choose to use one. I think you may be having a knee-jerk reaction and attempting to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Have a good weekend everyone! Be safe.
Sb



-- Modified on 9/6/2003 3:56:56 PM