I've occasionally had lunch with a provider friend for several years. It's not the "let's-get-personal" "break-your-heart" stuff described above. It's just two friends getting together for lunch. We talk about each others' lives (no, she doesn't talk much about some guy who tried to ram his rod up her ass) and sometimes chat online. She says she enjoys the occasional lunch with a friend who knows what she does and isn't judgemental.
Depends on why you want to do lunch with her. Romantic interest? Fuhgeddaboudit--it'll fry your brain eventually. Common interests? Maybe.
Have you ever been with a provider where you thouught the conversation was interesting and you wanted more outside of paying for another session. You might want another session also. But you found the person in that body interesting. Is it cool to ask them? They usually have rules, don't they.
Have 'you' ever done it? What happened? Do you recomend it?
People in all professions go out to lunch and otherwise socialize with their clients, doing things with them that have nothing to do with the job they are doing for them. They naturally do not charge for the time they spend doing this, even if they have an hourly rate. It's just a part of being a professional who has clients. It's good to do because it leads to more business from that client.
A lot of the guys in this scenario are emotionally needy, so they are very eager to think that going out to lunch with them "off the meter" means that he has some kind of special relationship with her (you know what I mean). But I think a girl who encourages him to think this way is being unscrupulous.
Suggest it to her, and see what she says. She might want to charge you a reduced rate, or she might not want to charge you at all for the reason I gave above, or she might not want to do it at all, but respect her decision.
I've accepted many social invitations from clients over the years - after all don't MOST people meet their social circle through their jobs? So yes, if you think you might like her, ask her! But BE WARNED: If you ask me to lunch socially, I'll probably decline, not because I don't like you, but because I know where this will go. Over the years that I've been in the business, I've tried to be social with my clients and usually we end up with mixed signals, hurt feelings and ended friendships.?
Why?
Because we cross a line that you don't understand or refuse to see no matter how up front I try to be.
1) Remember, my time for such things is limited! If I had lunch or dinner with every client that asked me, I'd have no time for anything BUT lunch/dinner and I'd be the size of a house. If you can be happy with a 'once in a while' thing and your ego can handle "can't do it this week" for a month or two in a row, then we don't have a problem.
2) If we manage to see each other every once in a while, don't fall into the trap that so many men do: It doesn't follow that if I accept a lunch invitation and let you in a little "closer" that I'm a freebie booty call either. Unless you're willing to give me free car insurance, free stero equipment ... or whatever it might be that YOU do for a living, don't assume that I will either. If you're a client, even one I especially like, you're still a client ... and you have to hold up your side of that arrangement. I can separate those two clearly. Can you?
3) Maybe that's not enough for you .... maybe you want to be romantically involved. No Problem .... but listen up and listen good: You want to be a part of my life? Fine - but you'll have to be a part of ALL my life!!!! Just like I'll have to understand when you have to go to Cleveland on business (yeah, I'll check TER to see who's in Cleveland) YOU need to be understanding when I break out date because my largest client flies in unannounced and needs me for a social event that evening. Just as I'll listen over drinks when you tell me about the guy at your work that you constantly have problems with, you'll have to sit there and listen about this guy I know, see regularly because he tips well, but just can't KEEP from trying to ram his dick up my ass without warning. Sit there and nod your head when I tell you about the guy who smells like cheese when I'm giving him a BBBJ. These are the problems of MY work ... and I expect to be able to tell my boyfriend!
And IF you want to be my boyfriend, then it's romance, flowers, wine and trinkets just like any other girl. Oh ... and .. try not to have a wife, either.
Yes, I know it's a lot to ask ... all you said was that you wanted to ask her to lunch ... I filled in the blanks .. but I did it for a reason - think about where it would lead and what you're prepared to do for it BEFORE you open the door, OK? WE can handle whatever comes .... it's the MEN that end up with the broken hearts.
go places with you but i have to tell you i will charge you my rates if we have sex. most of the time the guy changes his mind, then i know they were just wanting a free-be, my saying is i don't fuck my frends. take it any way you want. june's post was great said it all.
...it's about just such a social engagement like the one posed in the initial post of this thread. When a woman has such a warm engaging personality, when it is simply so very nice to be in her presence no matter the activity, it seems natural to dream of spending time with her for lunch, or dinner, or a movie, or a little time outdoors hiking along a trail enjoying nature, or going for a short run around the lake. Maybe just dropping by(announced of course) with bagels and coffee on a warm spring morning. Any number of little things that don't necessarily take up a lot of time where there's a chance to share a little conversation.
Pay no attention to that woman with the cleavage behind the curtain ...uh post above. I say that as my DREAM comes crashing down around me and reality washes over me like the cold surf of the Pacific on a January morning.
Yes that articulate woman with the cleavage is not just a pretty face. She speaks with the voice of experience. Someone who has witnessed the scenario play out where the man is not able to walk that tightrope, not able to keep his emotional balance, who sooner more often than later slips and comes crashing down, his heart shattering like glass.
Don't you just love it when a woman with a warm enchanting personality, is bright, articulate and sooo perceptive, not to mention witty, and with just the right touch of sarcasm in her sense of humor. Doesn't it make you just want to "do lunch with her".
Hopefully she hasn't just returned from giving some guy who smells like cheese a bj and decides to make that subject the centerpiece of a SHORT conversation. That could lead to losing one's lunch lol.
All kidding aside I would like to compliment June on a well thought out post. She has left us with words of wisdom, words to live or die by. Yes it is the MEN who end up with broken hearts.
Hey you, you with the captivating and playful personality, you know who you are. If you are reading this, how about a picnic lunch down by the bay on some warm sunny afternoon? I have years of experience walking that tightrope, I could do it in my sleep. My heart? Not to worry it's made of steel. Of course steel melts if things get hot enough
Thanks for the post, it is very open and sincere. It does point out many issues that can confront providers and hobbyists. There are hobbyists that are, of course, the wham bam thank you ma'am, and then there are the ones who confuse lust with love, and everything in between. I can see also how difficult it can be for a provider to deal with a "Meal Ticket" who gets freaky and romantic. It can be a huge balancing act. And as you say, communication is the key.
Which leads me to ask:
Which is easier for a provider to do, have a boyfriend who started off as a client, or a boyfriend who doesn't know what you do and have to (or not) reveal all? It seems there is always going to be part of a provider's life that is a double life and if a client can actually be trusted to REALLY be a part of your life...lock, stock, and barrel, it could be enriching because of the open communication.
Warmth,
TET
PS. Yes, early on I was one of those clients who confused love and lust, and it was painful. However, with experience came wisdom.
....she's moved away, but I had important and meaningful (to me) times with her just having coffee, or a drink, or a chat via email. I agree, the boundary thing is tricky on both sides.
You wrote a terrific piece, June, but how do I get myself to smell like cheese?? Hope it's not that same stuff we used to laughingly call "granny cheese"!
You make some good and very well thought out points. I appreciate what you're saying. No buts about it. If one is half way intelligent what you're saying makes all the sense in the world. We do tend to think with our dicks and many, if not all, times no further.
The point was general. No one specific in mind. After and before sessions I have had some real interesting conversations with providers. Some more interesting than most of my other social acquaintances. I've thought it would be neat to get to know them a bit better. No plans to make it go any further. However, you are right! That's a tall order psychologically.
Thanks for the response,
Gilder
ps. Where are we meeting next tuesday? or was that tomorrow?
Very well put. But, please, just as you should not judge a book by its cover, do not judge all males the same just because they have a cue stick and two balls.
Hi June, Someone (over here in the UK on on of the discussion boards) just pointed out your posting. And well, I just really wanted to say that I think you summed it up rather nicely and I couldn't really agree more!
I've occasionally had lunch with a provider friend for several years. It's not the "let's-get-personal" "break-your-heart" stuff described above. It's just two friends getting together for lunch. We talk about each others' lives (no, she doesn't talk much about some guy who tried to ram his rod up her ass) and sometimes chat online. She says she enjoys the occasional lunch with a friend who knows what she does and isn't judgemental.
Depends on why you want to do lunch with her. Romantic interest? Fuhgeddaboudit--it'll fry your brain eventually. Common interests? Maybe.
I've gone to breakfast, lunch, dinner and/or drinks with providers but always after our appointment off the clock. I would never ask a provider to lunch with me if I weren't also seeing her that day as a client. It's usually a spur of the moment type of thing and you must be brutally honest with yourself about your expectations and whether you really believe that she'd be okay with it. And you need to be aware that it's simply lunch and nothing more! Even if it seems like you're getting along like long lost buddies, you can't expect her to see you as anything other than a client. It's the nature of the game, man. Yes, they have rules and for good reason. Time off the clock spent having lunch with you is potentially time she could be working.
On the other hand, if she invites me to lunch, dinner or breakfast off the clock, well then that's a completely different story. And believe me, I have some of those stories I could tell, too -- perhaps one day!
The main thing is to keep your perspective and watch the boundaries. The line can get a little fuzzy sometimes and that's when you most need to step back and think things through.
I don't know anything about your specific situation. I just think this should be all about having a great time and that's it.
For example, I like to meet new friends but there is one lady in particular that I visit quite often. I think she is wonderful. She is already too generous with her time but I will never ask her out to lunch or dinner if it is not ON THE CLOCK. If I asked her OFF THE CLOCK she might feel pressured to do so for fear of losing a regular client. I would not want to be so unfair to her.
I offered to help a provider carry some boxes over to her new apartment. (I even carried the heavy one. lol.)
There are thousands of people that I would find it fascinating to go to lunch and talk with, but I just have a little problem with blending the lines with any professional service provider. (Money Manager, accountant, doctor, lawyer, etc... Provider)
This is a very sticky and interesting question you have posed. Way to go.
This question couldn't have come up at a better time. I do not currently have a boyfriend nor have I had one while I've been in the business. I have recently found myself in this particular situation and appreciate the feedback.
I have one a few occasions enjoyed a luncheon or dinner with a client but the catch was that it tends to be with someone who has a S. O. Recently I found myself being asked out by an "Available Friend" and haven't been sure what to do. Thanks for all the input as it has helped with my decision. Warm hugs and kisses ~CarleeofArizona
It's perfectly OK to ask a provider out ... and to specifically say that it's "Off The CLock." They aren't offended that you ask that question because they know that it's a subject that comes with the territory.
The key is .. that YOU not be offended if she says "no, I only socialize with clients ON the clock." Keep in mind that you sought her out AS a SEX OBJECT and she agreed to see you AS a MONEY OBJECT. There could be a hundred reasons why she can't or won't cross that barrier and none of them have to be 'about you'
And boo to those dubiously titled *gentlemen* who attempt to vilify, er, violate, the unspoken boundaries of client/ provider by PRESUMING they're entitled to our "off" time. Of course I have several clients whom I like personally, but would never see socially unless it were preceded by a compensatory session. That's exactly why I like them. Just so nobody gets pissed, I am only referring to the gents who become indignant when I've declined invitations for social time *on the house*. Of course I /know/ nobody in a classy place like TER would even entertain that notion!
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