What's going to become of the whole "Follow-me" family?

I use aliases for humorous effect, and I'd hate to lose that.

For exmample, I was going to use the alias "Kim Il Dung" to respond to MP67's post about N. Korea above.  

You can always cancel someone's alias privlege if they abuse it, but most times it seems people use the alias for good reasons, not bad.

Please reconsider that one item, if you will.

Everyone, whether male or female will have their originally chosen sign-on name as well as one chosen alias to use when posting on the General Board ???

This is art.

Using aliases is an aesthetic decision as much as a strategic one.

Do this experiment if you will:

Ask the gals how many pairs of shoes do they need.

especially since you started posting barely legal pussy shots.

Reviewers who have unjustly slammed a provider or tried to coerce her DESERVE to have their alias outed.

So do the providers who have tried to blackmail a client.

Don't unjustly slam a provider, don't try to coerce  and you got nutting to worry about.  

He who protests too much ....

the ONLY reason TER started allowing the use of multiple aliases was so that reviewers could use a different alias for reviews than for posting on the boards.

The rational behind this was that it would encourage more candor and, therefore, better quality reviews because it allowed you to say what you wanted to say without worrying about having to hear about it on the discussion boards from the lady that didn't like what you said.

Before the inmates took over, a lot more providers posted on these boards and it was a legitimate concern because a lot of guys felt they had to watch what they said in their reviews.

All of the other concerns stated in this thread, including that the sky is falling, were never part of the reason for allowing multiple aliases.  It was also never envisioned that multiple aliases would be used (or abused) as a way to conduct coordinated attacks on other TER members.

In the beginning, people just had fun with them, like many still do today.  But over the years the tone of the boards changed and the multiple alias feature just empowered the mean-spirited few that wanted to vent their anger at whomever they pleased from the safety of an anonymous alias.  It became a free-for-all for cowards with a keyboard.  Have another drink and call someone a fucking mangina cum stain- yeah, that really adds a lot to the discussion.

IMO, TER has been extremely tolerant of the growing abuse of aliases by the minority.  In fact, they were so tolerant that they allowed the good vibe of the board had back in the early 2000's to slowly be replaced with more aggression and hostility.  I'm only surprised that they waited this long to take these corrective actions.

My only suggestion is that is still makes sense to have two aliases- one for reviews, and one for the discussion boards.  So that might be something for Admin to think about as this all gets implemented.

...you've heard the best song ever, another comes along that's even better.  Same thing with aliases; you always need another one to express yourself.

As many of you know, we were going to try a few new things out on a couple of discussion boards. We were then going to discuss these changes and decide how we could best move forward. This was clearly a mistake and will only keep the discussion area in a heightened state of turmoil. It has been pointed out by many users that if we think that changes are needed, it would be better to do what we think is best Further, we should make any changes quickly. So that is what we are doing today. This post discusses all of the changes that we will be making. A few of the added features will take a week to activate.

The reason for the changes is that the discussion area needs to be more user friendly and welcoming to all users. The boards currently seem unfriendly to newbies, as-well-as to those who express a view other than the most popular. There are simply a lot of very interesting voices that are simply not given a chance to be heard. We are now changing the way that we approach discussion to fix these problems.

We will now cover the changes that are taking place.

1.TER will internally moderate all boards.

The volunteer moderators have worked really hard, but we need to move forward. Customer Support will now handle the moderation function. We are by no means driving any one off the boards. We truly hope that the volunteers remain huge contributors in daily discussions on the boards.


2. We will add board Hosts and/or Hostesses in the boards where it makes sense to do so.

We are the first to admit that we are not experts in every city. In order to address this point, we are asking for people to help us out by being a Host or Hostess on boards where it is needed. We will rotate the hosts and hostesses on a preset schedule in order to give all users who want to help us in a positive way a chance to do so. The hosts and hostesses will help welcome newbies, keep the discussion interesting, and keep a watch for any unneeded drama. We also believe that this will help the boards take on a much more positive feel.


3. We will discontinue the ‘Discussion Board Alias’ feature.

When we added the Alias feature, it was a fun way to express each user’s individuality. It is  currently just as often used to post mean spirited comments. Each user’s one review alias will still be able to be used in the discussion area. So we are going from an unlimited number of aliases to one alias that is unchangeable.


4. We will add a ‘Like/Dislike’ feature to board posts.

This is a feature that has been asked for for a while. Hopefully it will help everyone find the most interesting topics while not needing to dig through the ones that are boring.


5. We will extend the ‘Block This User’ feature into the discussion boards.

Just like in the real world, some people simply do not get along. We have a ‘Block This User’ feature in private messaging. We will bring it into the discussion area. Since it is new, we will release a first version and then modify it a couple of times so that it achieves the desired affect, which is that people that both you don’t any more.


6. We have added a ‘Report This Post’ feature to each post.

We have added this feature several days ago. This is not a way to have any post that you do not agree with pulled from a board. We want more points of view, not fewer. ‘Report This Post’ is a tool that users can uses to report posts that are created in order to be mean for meanness sake, or to start trouble.


In summary, we are making these changes to improve the site, to create boards that are not mean, boards that are welcoming to all and boards that have a much lighter, happier feel.

Like in any community, there is simply no way to make every single person happy every single time. We do hope that you hang around and continue being important members of TER.

- The Erotic Review

So only men are allowed the Alias feature from now on, correct?  Ladies who pay for VIP won't be allowed to use this feature?

It used to be a lot of fun. It is now abused by those who wish to cause trouble. It is also one of the most complained about features on the site.

Some people have spoiled it for everyone.

Everyone one will get one that they are stuck with forever.. so if it is used for bad, you simply can't move on to the next one.

between regular and VIP membership, a "two position switch" for non SW folks. a "three position switch"  between regular / VIP / VIP + alias memberships should not be difficult.

I need to calm down before I post more.

yup

You have a process to deal with those who cause trouble, whether with an alias or not, don't you?

Besides humor, I use multiple aliases, and excluded my name from the top posters list, for security reasons. A few years ago, LE in my area have a list of handles of active members the local board and questioned providers on their real names.

My posting will reduce significantly if not end completely if multiple aliases are not allowed.

My participation on the boards will no doubt drop to nil...

Why not leave it
and only take it away from those who abuse it?

Good Luck Bad Luck!....or..sometimes solving one problem just creates another.

There is a Chinese story of a farmer who used an old horse to till his fields. One day, the horse escaped into the hills and when the farmer's neighbors sympathized with the old man over his bad luck, the farmer replied, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?" A week later, the horse returned with a herd of horses from the hills and this time the neighbors congratulated the farmer on his good luck. His reply was, "Good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?"

Then, when the farmer's son was attempting to tame one of the wild horses, he fell off its back and broke his leg. Everyone thought this very bad luck. Not the farmer, whose only reaction was, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

Some weeks later, the army marched into the village and conscripted every able-bodied youth they found there. When they saw the farmer's son with his broken leg, they let him off. Now was that good luck or bad luck?

Who knows?

Everything that seems on the surface to be an evil may be a good in disguise. And everything that seems good on the surface may really be an evil.

How many aliases can you need. ONe seems enough to do what you ask.

Something tells me that most users of TER care about finding their next date and getting laid vs ability to post with 10000 different board identities.

This is the worst idea in all the years I've been a PAID member which is many.  For those of us who have been harassed by providers for posting the truth about an experience, the lack of aliases will destroy any honesty on this board.

Frankly, it's the controversial posts by those using aliases where a lot of truth comes out.  Controversy raises interest and generates participation.  By eliminating multiple aliases you will whitewash the boards and eliminate any interest.  The boards will deteriorate to a social club of a bunch of providers and their shills and white knights. Just take a look at what's happened to the vegas board which is overrun with providers, shills, and white knights.

The "block" function for a specific alias sounds like a good idea.  If someone doesn't like what the alias has to say then let that person block the alias or handle. Most of us probably want to be able to choose what we read and not have everything dumbed down. You are "censoring" a majority to pacify a handful of whiners.

How will the new hosts/hostesses work?  Will the hosts and hostesses be able to see the real handle of posters?

And I don't understand the reason for eliminating aliases because "The boards currently seem unfriendly to newbies, as-well-as to those who express a view other than the most popular."  The only way to express an unpopular view is to use an alias.  So instead of having open truthful discussion, you're suppressing it, since saying something unpopular will get you banned from seeing some of the providers.  Your argument makes no sense.  You're driving meaningful discussion off the boards and into back channels.

In the nearly 9 years that I've been here this has got to be the worst decision ever made.




-- Modified on 2/4/2012 11:50:46 AM

probably did not place it well. Geesh...never thought I'd be defending alias's , but do see a need for some flex with this.

So how many aliases does a person need?

If abuse is the concern then the "offending post" can be reported and THAT USER can either be banned or lose privilages.

Think about this. Many users enjoy the alias function, that is part of the fun of particapation in the first place.

You are making the site LESS fun for many, in a ham-handed effort to root out the few.

why not semi moderate the people who cause trouble with their aliases by taking that right away? Instead of punishing the whole board for a few people? You could allow aliases, then as each person abuses that privilege you can let them know via PM that their alias rights have been taken away until further notice.

This was fun, a cyber-wild west.  And as a newbie, I learned a lot from you and the other guys.  Hope you keep posting.  All you nuts.

I don't understand why the number of aliases needs to be eliminated.  

If some people don't like aliases then they should ignore them.  But to eliminate them for those who like to use them and read posts by them completely dilutes the value of the boards.

If you want to improve the discussion boards then give people options but don't unilaterally restrict what they already use and like.  

And if you decide to improve the quality of the reviews, then revise the template to make it more current as a service offered to one person may not be available to anyone else so basing the template on the first review is ridiculous. And more importantly, adhere to an objective scoring system that makes sense.  No one can argue with "appearance" scores but an individual performance/objective score shouldn't be artificially inflated because of a service that was not offered to the reviewer but might have been offered to someone else 8 months ago.  Each review should stand on its own.

Controversy is good for discussion and exchange of ideas.  What people often get upset about is the truth because it's not what they want to hear.  We're all adults.  Let us decide what we want to believe.

Sometimes the most controversial discussions revolve around an alias stating something that is true but upsetting to other posters who don't want to believe it.  

For example, if I accuse a popular provider of lying or cheating or whatever, even if my post is true and correct, others get enraged because they don't want to believe it.  Does that mean I'm abusing the system?

How do you define abuse?  If you don't like what someone has to say, don't read his/her posts.

A large family and growing.


Thank you
XLVI = 4

The changes

1. If the mods are really working hard and I assume doing a good job replacing them makes no sense and is a step back not forward.
If one screws-up just fire him and get another.

2. Host/hostess in addition to the mod. (Without mod power) why not.

3 Bad, bad bad idea. If when someone uses and alias in the wrong way just flip the alias, and or take away VIP for a week or two, or something along those lines. Seems to me the vast majority are for the multi alias feature.

4 Consider dislike enabled for #3.

5 Block this user. Does this mean that if I enable this feature for poster “FumbDuck” that none of FumbDuck’s posts will appear when I open a board he posted on but will appear to those who open that board and have not blocked him? Please clearify/ further explain this one.

6 Report this post. OK. In my opinion you will get lots and lots of whinny complaints, and will have created much unnecessary work yourself and your staff.

In summary these changes will not improve the site, but will create discontent.
True there  is no way to make every single person happy, every single time, however it seems that these changes are making the vast majority very, very unhappy.


If you wish to make a change may I suggest you make the font of the text on the boards larger and more easy to read.
Allow aliases to edit a post.

Thank you
XLVI  = 4

Barely legal, is legal!
I love those pics!!
Just wish their was a phone # to go with them!  lol

we all thank you for the concern, and hope we do not havve to break up the family.

Thank you
XLVI = 4

We do not know who each other "really" are. I am cspatz. Who the hell is that. No one real. The real me is unaffected by replies/attitudes/threats/whatever may be posted about cspatz. cspatz does not exist. So what is the big deal. Like I said. I have to laugh.

The 12 ladies you reviewed REALLY know who you are... For guys, your handle is somewhat an alias, but "we" as providers still know who you are and could use your info however we wanted. Whether you meet other guys from TER and tell them you handle or not, I am surprised by your false sense of security. Then for us ladies, without an alias to use on certain topics or just in general, we have NO protection against anything! Our handles may be our similar to our stage name, but, our reviews are linked to our names and when we post, anyone can get our number, photos and info. So I'm glad your proud for who you are and don't mind contributing freely, but for others, this scary reality check may not bode well. I think the boards will severely lack free expression and the push to have more ladies to contribute may fault because really, some ideas and comments we might NOT want accessible via a google search of our handle. IJS

for security purposes: AT LEAST ONE, since aliases CAN and DO get outed.

for humorous and esthetic purposes as many as can be used.

limiting aliases to any small preset number that has to be lived with forever defeats both security concerns AND stifles humor.

I'll be happy with 64. I just need to trim down my list.

For your "simple solution" to work no reviewer would have unjustly slammed a provider or tried to coerce her. No provider would ever have tried to blackmail a client. There are so many holes in only one alias... It is obviously a bad idea.

You'll find out that you are your handle. And if you post a lot, you'll get unwanted attention.

Any reviewer and provider or provider who uses coercion tactics should have the aliases outed.

Limiting to one alias will simply make it easier for coercion to happen. Your faith in a one alias limit is misguided.

I don't believe in coercion. I have nothing to worry about. I do think that multiple aliases permit two functions that are essential to the board's health:

1) Humor and entertaining storytelling
2) Documenting bad behavior of clients and providers in a safe way: warning of pitfalls without retribution or he said / she said train wrecks.

My indignation is that the one alias limit is rather obviously dysfunctional and board killing. If you are going to set the number of aliases to one, you might as well set it to zero IMO.

Occasionally I've used another one.  Over my TER life time probably 5 total.  But I've not reviewed since alias review was an option.

very good post  thank you  for breaking it down  well done ....when I first returned to TER in August after five years away from this place the first post I made was IN AZ  I had read the poll  about how only 49% of members ever posted  and wondered why....I was able to get posters back  by  a lot of hard work  and what I see happening here is too many changes all at once ....certain  boards have their own style  like GB  board and the over 60  has another  way of conducting themselves if one does not like a  board why not go to another one? Being this is THE  BIG  board  I think the main players that help  build it  should has some say here.... one shoe does not fit all.....why lump all Allis into one group as being  bad for TER some are downright funny and clever  the ones that are more hurtful  flip them and they will stop or go away......he was also right about trying to get help with a simple problem or question ....I have filled out several reports that were never addressed or  just closed after some time as far as suggestions and policy  board rarely  does TER address those questions .....time will tell but  I have a bad feeling that that 49%  is going to rapidly decline  you lose MP76 and his friends  there is no general board  change is not always good  but if it must happen seems it should be slowly one step at a time IMHO

There may be liabilities at issue here.  Never the less, on several boards I've been active on...  it is the Moderator who is often first to step in to help a member, particularly a new member, needing advise.   There really should be a standing ovation for our Moderators.  At this point, I find it hard to imagine anyone replacing them.   Will our new "Board Hosts" do that job now?  I just don't know.  Perhaps longer terms should be considered for Board Hosts who seem good at the job.  
H

Cousin MathFollowmeProfessor did a quick analysis and tells us that all your thoughts and comments are in the majority.
He is still counting but does not have enough fingers and toes, and gets embarrassed when he has to count to 21 in front of everyone. In any case a preliminary estimate is that well over 76.3584% are against most of the changes.

Also ShakeFollowmeSpeare thinks you stated it quit eloquently, he is wondering if you have ever been published.

Thank you
XLVI  =  4

I was in the process of typing a long rant against these stupid changes, but I think I will jsut agree with everything you just said, buddy.

These are some great first steps to making the TER boards friendly to all, especially newbies. Thank you for taking the time to explain your decisions behind each of these changes. This transparency shows that TER really cares about its members and wants to keep everyone informed of what is going on. Thank you.

The changes are in intention a good thing.  I never complained to admin but I encountered quite a bit of anymosity when I first started posting.  It took awhile to get used to it but I could see how others would easily get chased away.  Time will tell if all the changes are worthwhile but I believe it's a step in the right direction.  Change is inevitable, or you go the way of the dinosaur.

And yes I take the mistreatment of friends personally. It was also very friendly by saying thank you by moderating them. Yes I feel the love. If you can't tell I am being sarcastic and I am pissed. Lets see if this goes live as I am now moderated and I didn't even break a rule, Wonderful new friendly TER. I feel so welcomed.

And here is the link to my reply on the Chicago board.

First, I wouldn't take the moderating of the mods shortly after they were relieved of duty personally. When people are let go from companies, security usually watches the laid off gather their personal effects from their offices and escorts them out of the building. It isn't personal. It's just a pragmatic way of making sure that former employees don't do anything that they will come to regret later (like take their revenge on their former employers). I'm obviously just guessing that's what happened.

As for not letting the mods know, it isn't like the mods couldn't see this coming from a mile away. I mean, there was no good reason for TER to just limit the "host/hostess/TER staff moderates the boards" idea to just the Atlanta and Florida boards. It only made logical sense that this idea would be rolled out to the other TER boards.

I'm a little curious as to why the police would be stalking you on the TER boards regularly to begin with. I have to think the police would employ other methods to track you than wait for you to post on the TER boards.

That's not an issue if one plays nice and posts respectfully towards others.

Regrettably, most aliases are not used to play nice. Humor used by aliases are almost always at the expense of others.

The argument that more than one alias is needed for security reasons is ludicrous. If there is something you feel the need to post, that will cause any hint of danger to any person - you shouldn't be posting it. If you feel the need to warn people about a scary individual, then do so under your one alias - provided you haven't abused this one alias, you should be fine. If you think this isn't true - don't post. Remember where you are. The sun doesn't rise and set on the TER forums, get over it.

I find the argument that the use of aliases is "fun" more persuasive. Unfortunately, IMO, this is where the most abuse of the current format comes into play. Some people play rough, and can get very critical of others. I don't mind this, until it's done behind an alias. This is cowardly bullshit.

I hope the mods don't back down, and go forward with these new policies.

I won't be sharing this info on this board. We all know LE is here, frankly I don't want officer friendly knowing I am the one interfering with his investigation by posting info here.
If admin is so worried about aliases maybe they should have enforced their own policies.  Frankly all the complaints I've heard have been about people mis-using aliases.  I thought there were already rules for that

"2) Documenting bad behavior of clients and providers in a safe way: warning of pitfalls without retribution or he said / she said train wrecks."

What good is a warning from an alias? It has no worth. How do we know what the alias is saying is true, and not just someone with an axe to grind?

it is to give the _impression_ that you are doing something by limiting the aliases to one only. enforcement requires ongoing effort by moderators and admin. limiting aliases to one requires a modest SW change and then you are done. much less effort over all.

it won't work. it will kill the site and dry up any sources of information pertaining to safety. but it is cheap for now until the failure of the policy becomes clear.

Where as if we have multiple aliases, they will think it's not from the same person and avoid getting on their radar.  

Having just 1 is TOO RISKY.   What if it gets outed?

I, for one, don't trust any body especially in DC area and 1 alias isn't going to give me the comfort.  Additionally, since having multiple TER accounts is against the rules, I'll probably will not be sharing any info if my own safety becomes a risk.  

You are right. I don't. But I would think if I did something that warranted the DMV Law Enforcement to stalk me, then I would not post on a public board in the first place. That's why I'm curious as to what in the world you could have done that would warrant that sort of attention in the first place.

Just give the new changes a chance. I do not believe it will be as bad as all the naysayers say it will be.

It sounds like the Atlanta community acted like a lynch mob and took things into their own hands with their own brand of vigilante justice.

Look, this is TER's business model that we're talking about here. No community has a right to tell TER who may or may not be welcome to TER. If there is a problem, by all means share it with TER. But it should be TER who handles problems, not the community acting on the behalf of TER.

There are just my opinions obviously and don't reflect what TER things about all this,.

I will just use my real handle to post, so no reason to pay for VIP. I hardly base who I see on reviews any way.

I can't wait for more BS multi user personalities.

Not entirely correct. I have made contact with some ladies on TER and have then met them in real life. So they know me and my TER handle.

the worth can be general to the community or to a smaller group already in the know. here's how:

1) as long as it _could_ be true is good enough. even if identities are hidden by the alias, a story of how things can go wrong can be a pointer to hazards to be avoided. all it needs is to be is credible to be of general value especially to new folks.

2) if someone has been really screwed over badly, venting here is better than acting out in the "real" world. this is of value to the poster only. the reader might not get any benefit. the community indirectly benefits by allowing such a safety valve.

3) if someone has misbehaved, posting a recognizable account here can serve as a warning to stop the misbehavior. passively accepting that misbehavior without documenting it (even if under an alias) is not healthy and encourages more serious and continuing misbehavior. the general reader might not benefit. but the folks involved might take a step back from the precipice and not engage in mutually assured destruction. the poster and the misbehaving party can both benefit.

three scenarios.... i'm sure many more are possible.

I just wanted to add that I don't think it's fair to say that "TER has been extremely tolerant of the growing abuse of aliases by the minority". TER delegated the running of its boards entirely to the volunteer TER mods. If anybody has been "extremely tolerant of the growing abuse of aliases", it was the volunteer TER mods (some of whom may have been frequent users and abusers of aliases themselves).

That's why I'm greatly encouraged to see TER take charge of its product and restore accountability and responsibility once more.

I post primarily with a single alias, & a few others for special occasions...  "RippedFromTheHeadlines" for reports from the news...  where linking to my handle or my posting ID would narrow my location to a specific area.  

I think those who abuse aliases should get their aliases "locked" for a specified period of time.  

I really hope admin knows what they are doing...   and is open to fine tuning this...
H

to find ladies, read their reviews and decide who to see. They will not waste time by reading goody goddy posts on discussion boards.

Malicious Comments made under Alias are a big negative of the forum. The new policy should help

Malicious Comments made under Alias are a big negative of the forum. The new policy should help

Malicious Comments made under Alias are a big negative of the forum. The new policy should help

Right on, my number crunchin' brutha!

This board has been a mean spirited cesspool for too long.  I welcome the changes.

That would get the attention of LE.

if you don't mind 12 in a bed.

8o)

And do you really expect me to discuss the details of my case on a public board... LOL

GD board was a cesspool of hate in 2011.  HH proved that to me the first time my alias visited.

I haven't changed TER accounts. If you have the proof, then let's see it. But then again, I am not supposedly being stalked by DMV law enforcement either.

Your #1) "as long as it _could_ be true is good enough". I disagree. Balance this with the damage done by aliases with their own agenda, and it simply isn't worth it. Especially as any rational individual is immediately suspicious of anyone who would post something like this under an alias. Under your argument, a person with an axe to grind can raise an illegitimate beef, and as long as it_could_be true, the damage is done.

Your #2) "if someone has been really screwed over badly, venting here is better than acting out in the 'real' world". What? This isn't a diary. The posts aren't here for one person to have a conversation with themselves. I would argue that no one has EVER posted as you've described. They may SAY that's why they're posting, but that's bullshit. They're posting so others can read their posts. IMO, if someone ever did use the forums this way - it would be inappropriate.

Your #3) "if someone has misbehaved, posting a recognizable account here can serve as a warning to stop the misbehavior" A) Remember my point from number 1 - posting criticisms under an alias is worthless. Any reasonable individual will immediately have serious misgivings about people posting criticisms under an alias. Also, the misbehaving person can easily counter any criticisms by seizing on this first point. (i.e., this cowardly alias is talking bullshit, etc...) B) This is giving you (the poster I mean) far to much credit. Only a very small percentage of TER members even look at the forums. There are over 14K members, yet only a few hundred ever read forum posts. Informing a very small minority of individuals in a suspicious fashion won't change a thing. Furthermore, your assuming that a small thing like a forum post could even change a person's behavior if 100% of the people on TER read all the posts - something which I seriously doubt.

In short - your arguments aren't enough to counter the negative impact that a few have had by abusing the process. Play nice, say smart (this is a publicly viewable forum) and you'll be fine. Hey, change is hard - I think it will be for the best.

If you've gotten your feathers ruffled because someone has responded to your abusive posts - I don't really have any compassion for you. If you are forced to be more accountable for your posts, it will be better for the rest of us - possible at your expense, sure.

I believe the move behind the new rule is due in large part to behavior of people like yourself. "I for one uses aliases at the expense of myself"? How is that not an abuse of the rules? Alias usage wasn't created so people like you can post solely under aliases. If you play nice all the time, why would anyone have a problem with you? If you are in such danger (from what I don't know) that you feel the need to use only aliases when you post - you need to rethink your forum participation. I would strongly suggest not posting in a public forum.

I guess if you think my responding to your post is "stalking", we differ again.

safety related information will simply dry up and go away. we shall have to agree to disagree.

different people will have different uses for a board. i have abided by the rules here with the reasonable expectation that those rules would be stable.

my experience has been that #3 actually works contrary to your purely theoretical and uninformed dismissal, BTW.