This is an annonymous discussion board and I will not be the one to break that code. The lady in question has a right to see who she wants and I give her a ton of credit for being honest. My post was and is not about retaliation or recrimination. I just felt hurt and given the nature of the hobby had no one I could share this with. I thank everyone for the kind words and support I have received both on the board and in personal messages.
I am pretty darn new to the hobby (two weeks?), and I have been really excited by the possibilities and a little frightened of the certain demise of my bank account. I struck up a conversation with one of the more experienced members about providers in the fertile south florida area and he gave me the name of someone he said was off the charts. I checked out her reviews and website and found that she is stunning and seems to be off the charts for everyone else too, so I sent her an email to get started on the feeling out process. I included my photo.
This is the response I got.
Hi - Great photo and I appreciate your honesty, however, I don't see men of color. I don't mean to offend you and I'm not prejudice, just my personal preference.
There are a ton of girls out there so good luck in your search.
Thx, Her Name
I am thirty six years old. I have lived in New York, South Carolina and Florida. I have never before had anyone deny me anything or call me anything obviously based on race. I am very light skinned, in fact I have white friends who enjoy fishing and boating and they are all darker complexioned than I am. I have blue eyes.
I never consciously thought it, but I guess I felt I was immune to all that. I'm adopted so I kind of like the idea that I am part everything and not confined to one group. We all have our illusions I guess.
Don't get me wrong, I am not angry with the girl, and I don't feel bad about myself. Guys face rejection everyday, even in the hooby though I'm sure not nearly as much, so we kind of get used to rolling with those punches. Its just that my world view has been adjusted really abruptly for me, and for some reason my eyes seem really full of moisture.
Most of what you've written shows that the racial situation is improving in this country, as almost everybody except those who gain their livelihood or sense of self from the PC version of the civil rights "industry" can see.
And what you've written about this provider reminds me of a joke I heard many years ago.
A psychologist gets on a bus, takes a seat. A few stops later, some others get on, including some few who have to stand. Suddenly, one of the standers, a short, scrawny guy, gives the psychologist a swift kick in the shins. The psychologist, who's a brawny fellow, continues sitting as if nothing is happening.
After the kicker gets off the bus, a passenger sitting next to the psychologist turns to her and says
"Excuse me, but I saw that guy kick you, and you didn't do a thing. You look like you can handle yourself. Why'd you take it?"
Oh...the guy who kicked me?...That's his problem, said the psychologist.
Look at it this way. She told you how she felt, honestly. What if you'd donated your bank account to see her and because of how she felt she took your money and just laid there?
I've seen providers post that they prefer Asians, Polynesians, African Americans, etc. I've NEVER seen providers post that they PREFER white guys (it's like saying you're going to run a used car lot and refuse to sell Chevys - this IS a business, after all).
You certainly have the right to be hurt - God knows you've probably seen overt and subtle rejection that we white guys cannot imagine, but in this case I think you're better off having been rejected with your money still in your wallet
and someone else's gain. You sound like a handsome black man, and there are plenty of women out there, who would want to be with you, in a heartbeat.
Let's face it, there is discrimination out there, everywhere: some hidden, some outright bold, some in regards to weight size, racial preferences, religious beliefs, etc. Unfortunately, it still happens in today's society But, the key in overriding it, is to carry on with who you are as a person, and try not to make the same mistake as those, who have an "agenda".
There are times, when I get discriminated against, because I am not a certain size, and I remember being called Nigger in grade school (yes, I am a woman of color), for the first time ever in my life. When I look back at all the instances, where I was discriminated against, I feel more pity for the "aggressor", than hatred back.
As for the lady who had turned you down, she lost out on a good thing: 1. Being with a handsome black man. 2. Financially. Even though it was her preference (which, we all cannot deny that we do have, and by right) not to spend anytime with you, she still lost out on meeting that somone, who may have enhanced her life, for the very brief moment in time.
Anyways, I rattle on..but, I do hope that you pick up the pieces, and move on gracefully
You know, I can't remember the last time I even was aware that I considered someones color.
Sorry if this sound trite, but I seem to have become color-blind over the past 20 years. Women in general are beautiful; so many textures, so many shades, so many wonderful forms. I can imagine disqualifying someone (especially a woman) based on her skin tone.
I have met many individuals that I was uncomfortable with. When I find myself in this position, it is always because of their demeanor or the way the comport themselves. In my experience, there are more really frightening white and asian folks out there than any other race. By the way, I am a mix of Irish and Native American (formally know as Indian before the PC police took that term away from us), so I think I have standing here.
In closing, let me state that I think Melinda is especially hot! I am waiting for my financial situation to turn around so I can spend a wonderful evening exploring all the great possibilities this woman holds for me. The fact that she is a "woman of color" has been lost on me from the start. If you have talked to this woman or seen her pictures, you know she is a walking, burning hunk os passion and heat just waiting to explode in your arms. Why would anyone dismiss her because she has a beautiful, deep, dark, wonderfully-smooth skin-tone.
Just my opinion and I could be wrong (but certainly not about Melinda).
Wow. Isn't that the truth? Doesn't Mel just exude such sensuality and loveliness in TEXT?!! I can only imagine what she must be like in person! What a treat, and a treasure..
There's good and evil forces at work everywhere, all the time. Sometimes we have a "loss of innocence" moment when we catch a glimpse behind the curtain and become more aware that not all is perfect. But be careful not to assume that anything changed in that moment. The world was very much the same the minute before you got that response as it was the minute after, only your awareness has changed.
Rumors to the contrary, we as a country still struggle with prejudice in all its forms and we have to accept that it won't change overnight. We have to do the best we can with the tools we have available--never settling for the status quo, but at the same time never setting the expectation for change so high that society can't ever meet it.
At the same time, I do think that we have to give providers a greater degree of leeway... Unlike a neighbor or employer, the intimate nature of the transaction changes things.
We're on the ragged edge between a business transaction, where we should expect fair treatment for all, and a romantic relationship, where personal preferences need not ever be compromised or justified.
If IBM said "we don't hire women" we'd all march on Rochester. But if a provider says "I don't see women, only men" we would see nothing wrong with that. If WalMart said "no one under 40" we'd be up in arms, but not so with a provider.
I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't use the dynamics of this hobby as a barometer for measuring either the status of our society or my own self worth. We've taken the highly convoluted nature of sexual politics, mixed in the equally convoluted nature of economics and redistribution of wealth, and just for fun, we tossed in a few cups of moral ostricism and illegality. The result is not likely something that will yield useful conclusions about the true status of race relations in America.
And how true it is. I am really impressed, and with your permission, of course, I may some day quote you (giving the credit where it is due, naturally). And now for my .02 on this matter.
Many years ago I was in psychotherapy, and after about 2 years my relationship with the therapist was extremely close and very dependent. Then one day he suddenly died, and I felt as though I lost my best friend and my father at the same time.
I went through the difficult and stressful process of trying to find a replacement, and found myself at the referral service of a prominent university. They asked me what I envisioned as a therapist I could trust, and I was faced with a problem. How do I eliminate certain professionals based on gender, race, religion, age, socio-economic background, etc., without looking like an outright bigot? So I asked the counselor. She told me that under circumstances such as this I had every right to expect certain qualities or traits in a "partner" of this nature because of the highly personal and intimate nature of the relationship. And so I found a therapist who had a similar background to mine and carried on.
I relate this story because I truly believe that from a provider standpoint the same principles apply. Although they are in effect running a business, and everybody's money is green, the service they provide is highly intimate. They literally bare themselves to a client and become very vulnerable as a result, both physically and emotionally. I therefore, despite my own feelings about the equality of everybody, believe that providers are within their rights to see whomever they please, and to turn away (hopefully with some intelligent sensitivity) those they are uncomfortable with, pretty much for whatever reason. I am overweight and have had providers turn me away for that reason. It certainly hurt, but I found providers who accepted me the way I am. And I thoroughly enjoyed my time with her, and others since that experience.
Move on. For every provider that feels this way, there are probably hundreds that would welcome you. Her loss is not only their gain, but yours as well. I would think that it's far better to be with a provider that actually wants to be with you.
Welcome to this wonderful hobby, and please don't let this early disappointment keep you from enjoying the many wonderful experiencess with the many wonderful ladies you are destined to meet.
I think "fortitude" said what I tried to, only more eloquently.
These ladies sell a product, part of which is the illusion of romance. There are guys who just want to get their rocks off, but the very fact that this thread started the way it did makes me believe the original poster is not one of them.
"ATF" is a bit strong for someone with as little experience as I in this game, but I must admit I was a bit taken aback to read a review of my personal favorite which talks about her besting Arnold's attempts at a tongue thrusting kiss - I mean, a MAJOR LEAGUE turn-on - as she walked though the door for a first encounter. This lady is gorgeous, friendly, sweet, and wacky, and loves sex. That's how she makes her money, and it's really stupid for me to be surprised that she greets someone else the way she did me, but that's part of the fantasy. Now imagine the provider who's the discussion point of this thread DIDN'T reveal her prejudices (or, probably the hope of the original poster, that he couldn't help her overcome them). Neither one of them would have the great time he paid for, but she'd have a sizeable chunk of his money afterwards.
I've had an encounter where there was a misunderstanding at the beginning that resulted in the fantasy disappearing. The session wasn't canceled but it ruined the experience for me. I would much rather not have been there - although I must admit I learned something from it.
What seems like a million years ago, I met a girl at the craps table of the Peppermill in Reno and we got to talking. Turned out she worked at the Mustang Ranch and was on her week off. She told me all kinds of things about the internals of the place that would have never dawned on me.
For one, there was a parking lot watcher that rang a bell when someone was at the gate - in order to tell the girls that new business was on the way so they could get ready to line up. Turns out the rang the bell once for normal [read "white"] business and twice for business 'of color'. She also told me that ifthe person at the gate puched the gate buzzer twice quickly, it meant that he didn't want the line-up.
Later that night, a friend and I went there for a drink, rang the doorbell twice (sure enough there was no lineup) and went and had drinks .... Sure enough ... when the alter buzzer rang twice ... some girls lined up and others scattered like quail... and it amazed me. As far as I'm concerned, a girl is either a professional - or she's not.
Sorry you were hurt, Bubba. Ignorance still exists ... but some good came out of it. First, you would have had a bad time anyway (ignorant people are usually lousy in the sack) Second, it WAS her loss Third, we now have uncovered one more amateur in the business.
I too, consider myself a tasteful, attractive and successful black gentleman.
As to your post, I've been there, accepted the realities of the hobby that exist, got over it and have no hard feelings with the providers for their preferences.... Keeping in mind that I have choices as well.
i was unfortunately in the same situation as you shaft. and i posted on another board my encounter and the response was not welcoming by my so-called fellow hobbyist. i was even told to deal with it and it is her choice to see who she wants. very true but to discriminate by color says something about one's character. i really wonder if women of color started to use that practice would they openly scrutinized (just a ramble ignore it if you must) and exposed on boards like this.
ultimately dont sweat it, i know it is hard to believe and swallow that in this hobby that there is discrimination but it exist, but there are many other providers (black, white, purple, blue) that will be willing to see you without a problem.
But at least you corresponded with a provider who handled the situation quite professionaly. It appears that way to me by her reply and about how your not angry with her for her choice of not wanting to see men of color. So I guess you can change your username to crayola or pick a color now, lol. Just kidding there a bit.
The subject of peoples choices have been talked about many times on this board and most agree that both parties have the right to choose who they want to see.
This is no ones loss, its just a business transaction. You can now look for someone else and hopefully you will be happy with the transaction.
You appear to have a grip on things so good luck to you and be safe and have fun.
Legend has it that the late great George M. Cohan was checking into a hotel in the south.
The Desk Clerk looked at Cohan's signature and told him "we don't allow Jews in this hotel". Now Cohan was not jewish, he was irish. Undaunted Cohan replied, "Young man, it appears we have both made a very serious mistake. You thought I'm jewish, and I'm not. I thought that you were a gentlemen, and you're not!"
Just goes to show we have some work to do on ethnic relations.
There is so much that is said here that this thread should be one that is 'saved' and referred to when this topic or relating topics come up again. (how do you do that, BTW?)
There are plenty of men like me who don't like that sort of thing and will take their business elsewhere. To be fair, send her a note first and ask her to put it on her website.
This is an annonymous discussion board and I will not be the one to break that code. The lady in question has a right to see who she wants and I give her a ton of credit for being honest. My post was and is not about retaliation or recrimination. I just felt hurt and given the nature of the hobby had no one I could share this with. I thank everyone for the kind words and support I have received both on the board and in personal messages.
I personally have little to no attraction to women of color, or really to Asians as well. I don't think it's really racism, though I'd respect someone who'd argue otherwise, but I also have no attraction to heavier people either, and have many friends (male and female) who are overweight, as well as Asian and (fewer but some) African-American friends.
Is a provider, by being in this business, obligated to take all comers? I don't think so - and who knows even why she declines certain people - it may be something in her past for all we know that prevents her from functioning properly. I don't know, and I do look at myself a little when I decide I have no interest in someone because of color, though since I don't date much outside my religion in real life, the issue rarely comes up.
i agree. the provider in question is obviously entitled to her personal preferences. however,she did waste shafty7 time (yes,even the time it takes to send out an e-mail) by not stating her preferences on her website. what would have happened if he had shown up at her front door? IMO, shafty7's time is just as valuable as the provider.
... If a provider has blanket rules about race, they should be posted on her site. She still has an absolute right to refuse any particular person for any reason she wants. I, on the other hand, should be able to NOT see ladies that would not see a Black man under any circumstances. It would really bother me. Correspondingly, would the lady be comfortable with a person like me -- one of those effite eastern race-mixing liberals?
As a man, I have put my money where my mouth is. I have two adopted children, both Bi-Racial (I did not seek that characteristic out, it just turned out that way). I can accept that people feel differently about things, but it would be hard for me to be in an intimate situation with a woman that had these feelings when I feel so differently.
My two cents and my true respect for people that feel otherwise. ... Harry
Her loss is another Provider's gain. While we each have our own preferences in this industry, I don't think it right to refuse service to someone based simply on the color of their skin. There are several reasons, however, as to why this lady would've done that. She could've had a bad experience with an African American man or she could have a boyfriend "of color" who forbids her to see black men. Also, another concern for some Providers who are of the same opinion here in Atlanta is that a lot of LE is African American and they simply don't service men "of color" because they want to lower their risk of coming into contact with them. Some also are of the assumption that HIV/AIDS is spreading more rapidly in the black communinity, so avoiding them lowers their chances of contracting the disease. There's a whole host of reasons that Providers give for avoiding whatever they choose to avoid, but IMHO, refusing service simply because of race is WRONG! This is 2003, for crying out loud!!! Aren't we past that?
If you ever get to Atlanta, which isn's all that far from you, please look me up!!! I'd be more than happy to soothe those feelings of rejection because, while I love to be in the company of any true gentleman, African American gents are my absolute favorite!!! And you have blue eyes... What an awesome bonus! My website is linked below... feel free to e-mail me anytime!
the ladies say that sometimes the black men are 'too large' and it hurts them and puts them out of work awhile, so they don't want to see black men. So, if a lady is really small 'down there', I'm wondering how she would 'screen' the more endowed gentlemen (regardless of race, because black men aren't the only larger ones)..if that were the issue..
I will admit that I am not small down there 8), however I can't claim to be so big she could see it from across town =(. It wasn't obvious in the pic I sent either. Thanks for thinking of an ego stroking way out tho Sedona. I have been reading everything on the boards for the past couple weeks and you always seem to say something sweet and insightful.
If "escorting" were legal, an escort could not legally refuse a client because of his race, though she COULD refuse him for any other number of rational or irrational reasons.
and by how much attention this is receiving.. This is a business and there is a saying that I have seen posted nearly everywhere : we(the business) have the right to refuse service to anyone. The business rarely posts what type of business they will refuse with the exception of shoes and shirt required. This is all the provider did. Shafty7 sorry that you took this personally. But people have lost sight of the fact that to some people sleeping out of race is just wrong. Or one race in particular isn't her cup of tea. The white poster who wants the girl to post on her website that she doesn't see men of color so that he can avoid seeing her because of that is just wrong. Get over yourself. That would be as absurd as myself asking all providers who do see men of color to post that so I wont call them. I feel that weve become to pc. That were trying to override our instincts. Face it, men don't like other men period. Sure we tolerate some, befriend others, not trust a few. This instinct heightens when we introduce other races. Mankind doesn't want to live with other races. he can barely put up with his own. We as Americans should celibrate diversity & multicultured beliefs. What a joke. In closing no harm no foul. As others have written Shafty7 still has his money to spend on someone who will be comfortable seeing him. Another provider will fill the void and make some money instead. Maybe even a friend also. And the provider who refused Shafy7's business has the piece of mind that her standards couldn't be bought. And if she has read the above posts, hopefully she won't be influenced by the PC crowd who have rushed in to try and shame her.
I really hate that, unfortunately I hear it often from my clients, that they get turned down because of race. How can she possibly say it's "no offense" - of course it is!
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But, the key in overriding it, is to carry on with who you are as a person, and try not to make the same mistake as those, who have an "agenda". 