TER General Board

Sorry, but in my case
MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 918 reads
posted
1 / 28

ie you did not do my "honey do" list therefor I'm not putting it out tonight.

you did not fulfill some intangible expectation of mine today so no soup for you

you failed to stroke my ego so no woody for ya

I'm too busy pouting about god-knows-what to want to do the horizontal two step

etc

A woman who can enjoy a long lingering romantic sexual interlude when the mood and time are right,

who is up for a "zipless" when that seems to be de rigueur,

and who can grudge-fugck me to the edge of my sanity when you're working through some issue(s) (ie just plain annoyed with one another) is a perfect woman.

And with such a woman, great sex sometimes fixes more than lengthy debate.

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 169 reads
posted
2 / 28

evidence of no reciprocity with serious risks like:

1) reproduction (doubts about a shared view on  measures and consequences)

2) safety (what is the BB policy, what happens to pillow talk, etc.)

but then evidence of failure in one or both areas is not only grounds for witholding but an indication it's time to end things.

manypoppins 2 Reviews 180 reads
posted
3 / 28

"maybe if you had done my "honey do" list I'd put out tonight"

"maybe if you fulfilled some intangible expectation of mine today there'd be soup for you"

"maybe if you stroked my ego..." etc.

Well guess what, I already got some today so I don't care about your BS games and false promises.

I thought I'd be the last guy in the world to want to cheat, but here I am.

mattradd 40 Reviews 146 reads
posted
4 / 28

That's two in a row! Got my curiosity up. Come on, fess up. I know we can get the resident Dr. Phil to pipe up if you'll just spill the beans:)

mattradd 40 Reviews 150 reads
posted
5 / 28

Most guys aren't allowed that luxury, just the cold silent treatment, and left wondering which rule they broke. lol

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 145 reads
posted
6 / 28

grudge fucking each other. Great tension relief, opens up genuine convo and creates an attitude of forgiveness. Puts the *priorities* in their right place, brings perspective.

I bring these topics up because they are *real* and we are on topic amnesty day. I hear about this shit all the time from friends of mine including providers.  I just wonder why anyone would put up with it?

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 166 reads
posted
7 / 28

i know a guy who got blindsided by a surprise lecture from _her Dad_ about how BBBJ was not appropriate in marriage: if he needed that sort of thing he should get a hooker.

funny thing is he kept getting BBBJ througout and even after the divorce.... folks can be interestingly strange... it's a wonderful world. ;-)

OSP 26 Reviews 156 reads
posted
8 / 28

As long as the manginas,amungst us, BOW-DOWN to every demand(made by woman for sex), woman will continue to use sex as a tool/weapon.


A sexually happy/content male is driven to provide/comply with his S/O's wishes. Don't permit sex to be held ransom.

manypoppins 2 Reviews 140 reads
posted
9 / 28

And now it's taken on another form. She's taking the initiative every now and then but doesn't follow through.

She goes "Let's have sex today! It's been too long."

"OK, let's do it now, the kid's asleep."

"No, later, after we've gone to bed."

So I go to bed when it's time, she says "I'll be right down."

I wait for an hour and fall asleep. The next morning she tells me she came down all ready and found me asleep. But it's OK, we'll make up for it today. And the whole story repeats over and over again.

If 50% of marriages fail, I wonder what percentage just silently suffer for the sake of kids or whatever. I don't think I'm a big believer in marriage anymore.

MP67 11 Reviews 113 reads
posted
10 / 28
mattradd 40 Reviews 159 reads
posted
11 / 28

one more such post and I'm gonna have my doubts:)

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 139 reads
posted
12 / 28

that we usually do not discuss here because they are not strictly hobby related.

I note that female participation is at a minimum. Must be a busy day / time for our provider friends else I'd be getting skewered for sure LOL

Sage of Chicago See my TER Reviews 157 reads
posted
13 / 28

keep in mind these are not necessarily my views, but I can understand them a little.

Why?  

Because it doesn't make a chicks pussy dripping wet to think you didn't care enough about what she asked of you to do it.  You want to get a chick drippy and hot, do MORE then she asks and you are very likely to be rewarded.

You say you don't feel like it, it is very likely a wife will in turn say SHE doesn't feel like it.  Turn about is fair play.

I am not married nor have a ever been, however I can fully appreciate hoping that my partner cared enough to think what I asked might have been important enough for him to do.  Kinda like a respect thing which I am sure you also as a husband/partner would hope your wife/partner would do for you should she be asked.

Take care all, Sage

OSP 26 Reviews 144 reads
posted
14 / 28

but bare in mind that one 'C' equals 5 'F's

Aileysalley 167 reads
posted
15 / 28

growing up...if my parents got upset with me...they would take something away from me...so I would apologize...do what they asked...and then get whatever back...so as I see it...if Your wife gets upset with You...what can she really take away from You...nothing...but she can hold back from You...just a thought...I know for myself...I would Never...withhold sex...why should I get punished too ;)

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 168 reads
posted
16 / 28

should never rise to the importance of being interrelational issues. Does not make sense to me.

To me, keeping the intimacy and sex flowing in a relationship enables us to deal with the occasional issues that come up in a very giving and forgiving manner.

Of course, I am a military lifer. If something needs done, I do it. I am not an avoider of responsibility or a procrastinator.

If my housemate had a suggestion for something that needed done or something she wanted, she would find me to be entirely responsive to the conversation.

if we had a disagreement about something, and she put a high enough value on it to create distance in the relationship, and to impair our sex life, would signal me that I needed a change of housemate LOL....

To me, keeping the intimacy and sex flowing in a relationship enables us to deal with the occasional issues that come up in a very giving and forgiving manner.

WebTerrorist 155 reads
posted
17 / 28

Generally speaking, women tend to be sexual when they are emotionally satisfied, and men tend to be emotional when sexually satisfied.

You gave an example of "grudge-fucking" to work through issues.  That works better for men, as, in general, once their sexual needs have been met they are more willing to work through things.

Women, in general need to work through things, be emotionally satisfied by that, to want to have sex.


Many men on these boards, state (jokingly or seriously) "that you pay for it either way" and turn marriages and dating into a long-term pay for sex arrangement.  That isn't a fair equation though, it isn't money (house, bills paid, gifts, etc.) in exchange for sex, it is emotion in exchange for sex.

The list you provided:
Honey-do list not done
expectations not met
failed ego stroking
pouting about G-d knows what...

those are all things that can make her feel less emotionally secure, less appreciated, less valued, less.
So, she isn't going to be inclined to just spread it.  She isn't going to feel inclined to fill your:
Honey-fuck list
meet your sexual expectations
stroke your dick
keep you from pouting about not getting pussy


Manypoppins rephrased the statements you wrote, and added that he didn't care about doing anything for her since he already got some that day.

So, if she needs those things to feels appreciated, secure, happy, desired, good about herself, etc enough to have sex with him, well he found a way he never has to make her feel appreciated, or secure, or happy, or good about herself...
he just pays someone else.

Wonder where she can go to get what he won't give her?

Interestingly, it seems many men are basically saying they want their wives / SOs to just put out whether she wants to or not whether she is in the mood or not...he wants his sex and it doesn't matter what she wants or needs, and if he doesn't get it with her he'll get it elsewhere.

I had an interesting conversation just last night with a group of friends where the subject of not having sex with an SO came up.  The other issue that came up was it is part of the marriage contract and if a woman doesn't have sex with her husband she is breaking that contract....

well what about what is in the marriage contract for the wife?
As I wrote earlier it is emotion.
...but even if the husband doesn't offer that emotion the wife is breaking the contract by not having sex?
Yeah, that's fair.

About a year ago I was talking to a married friend of mine, she told me  how  almost the only time her husband would even talk to her anymore was when he wanted sex, and how he would keep pushing her about it, until one night crying, she said if that's all he wanted her around for fine.
She laid back tears running down her cheeks and spread her legs...
and her husband fucked her right there, got done rolled over and went to sleep.

Now, that is an extreme case, but each time a man disregards that his wife is "pouting over G-d knows what" or didn't get her "ego stroked" or "her expectations weren't met", and instead just wants his sex despite anything about her or how she feels, he isn't far from the guy that fucked his crying wife, because that's all he wanted her for.  

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 85 reads
posted
18 / 28

thus the bit about ego stroking and pouting, which is a male trait more than not.

I've spoken to quite a few women whose hubbies / SOs withheld sex and pouted over issues as well. Manginas I guess....

What I understand you to be saying is that some women depend too highly for their *self worth* on a man doing things for them. Self worth cannot be given to you by another. I see what you describe as a dependency relationship.

I am very happy with a truly inter-dependent relationship, where neither partner holds the other *responsible* for their emotional well being. Where both communicate effectively, share responsibilities, and take care of one another willingly without games and coercion.

My experience has always been that in this respect, there are two sorts of women - the dependent sort who require a man to validate their self worth by dancing to their tune, and the inter-dependent sort, who want a partnership, who are not threatened by those times when something goes awry, when they do not see eye to eye with their partner, and who would still want to enjoy sex and intimacy both in and of itself and as a means of keeping the relationship functioning and helping to deal with issues.

It is much easier to give and to forgive when neither withholds, or depends upon the other for validation.

washdc1 60 Reviews 100 reads
posted
19 / 28

I stopped and have been off for more than 10 years when she said "This is really too personal for me" and never reinitiated

Tessen 23 Reviews 151 reads
posted
20 / 28

In Aristophanes' play "Lysistrata" (c. 411 BC) the women of ancient Greece came up with a sure-fire way to end the Peloponnesian War.

An all-out sex ban until peace is declared!

-tessen

manypoppins 2 Reviews 147 reads
posted
21 / 28

it is NOT the case that I'm not doing anything for her. They are just lame excuses to get out of having sex. She's told me that she just doesn't have the same appetite for sex that she used to. After I stopped asking for sex she's no longer telling me I'm not doing enough, she seems perfectly content. She'll try to initiate every once in a while for appearances sake, but as I wrote earlier it seldom goes anywhere.

Before all of this you couldn't keep her off me, and guess what, there were lots of times I wasn't in the mood but I still did it. I didn't tell her no for months at a time.

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 122 reads
posted
22 / 28

but yes indeed - women have been using sex to get what they want from men from time immemorial.

HEY!

isn't that what the hobby is about ?  LOL :-D

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 135 reads
posted
23 / 28

Assuming we are dealing with people of goodwill; the sexual impasse does, indeed, result from unmet emotional needs.

But there is another aspect of this that I believe is often operative.

By default, we believe that others are like us; and that OUR needs are the same as theirs. Thus, when we try to meet their needs, we tend to concentrate on those that match our own.

So good intentions can go awry.

Perhaps my own need for sex (which I classify as an emotional need since it isn't driven by reason) is quite different from that of an S.O.. I might *assume* that in meeting my need for sex I am simultaneously meeting an important need of hers; when, in fact, I am not.

Likewise, she might assume that by talking to me endlessly about the family soap opera; she is meeting one of my needs while meeting one of her own simultaneously.

We can end up, essentially, talking past each other because neither of us understands the relative importance of different needs.

I need alone time. Alone time for me is every bit as important as basic financial security is to her. I need sex. Lack of sex would be just as problematic for me as a total lack of non-sexual intimacy would be for her.

It can be difficult to step outside of one's box to comprehend different assignations of relative importance of emotional needs in a partner.

This can be especially problematic in dealing with men who, whether through nature, nurture or some combination, are inhibited from expressing anything that might be interpreted as weakness.

Thus, a man might not express to his SO just how important a sexual relationship is to him; and thus she might not grasp that to him, being with a wife who won't enthusiastically screw would be like her being with a man who utterly ignored her.

It is my belief that if men expressed the sheer importance of their sexual needs in terms to which S.O.s could readily relate; there would generally be fewer hobbyists.

But this DOES bring up the spectre of something else you mentioned, Webbie -- and it is important. To me, anyway, an S.O. who merely "allows" sex out of some sense of obligation is worse than no sex at all.

The key in many cases, as you have sagely noted above, is to break the impasse. One of the partners has to make sure the other's emotional needs are fully met first, and then seek to have his/her own needs met. (And communication of those needs is important.)

Personally, I believe, that men hold the keys here. They aren't helpless victims. They can do a lot of things that will help their wives be more inclined to desire sex.

And, again assuming people of goodwill who actually want a relationship to work, it can go a long way.

But here is where I start adding.

Sometimes, the fact that a woman has a man securely can turn her off. This was the case with my first wife, from whom I was able to secure sex only through a rather elaborate ruse that caused her to constantly question how securely she actually held me.

Likewise, a lot of research on sperm competition indicates that woman aren't naturally monogamous. Sometimes the only thing that will actually turn a woman on is a new partner.

Then, there are women with psychosexual issues grounded in trauma.

Also, there do, in fact, exist women who use sex as a weapon to attempt to control men. They make unreasonable or impossible demands and use their legal sexual monopoly to withhold something nearly as important to a man as air in order to get those demands met. I would not classify such women as having goodwill.

Finally, popular culture I think creates unrealistic expectations in both sexes. Men expect women to be hot, ready and waiting just like in porno flicks; and women expect men to be like the guys in movies. In the real world, both fall short of these expectations and dissatisfaction results.

I think you will find it interesting, if you research the origin of anti-prostitution laws in the U.S., to discover those laws were primarily championed by married women.

A legal monopoly on an absolutely fundamental need of men is a lot of power. Men have no such monopoly on anything nearly as important to women; IMO. Maybe, at one time they did; but they don't now. Legal prostitution effectively breaks that power.

Which is one reason why marriage rates are higher in Western countries without legalized prostitution than in otherwise culturally aligned countries where it is legal.

Another thing that cannot be ignored in this equation is the very unbalanced situation regarding divorce in this country.

In 90% of cases where custody is disputed, the woman wins. And whoever does not win custody, has HUGE and long-term financial obligations.

If we assume, I think quite reasonably, that there is no intrinsic difference in the moral worthiness of men and women; it is quite likely that the way the deck is stacked accounts for women filing twice as many divorces as men. The women see themselves as having less to lose.

The woman leaves, she gets the house, the kids, and a generous government-enforced stipend. The man leaves, and he is homeless, turned into a 1/7th dad; and pays sometimes more than half his take-home pay to his ex-wife.

So the differential in divorce filings is no surprise.

But here is where this relates to sex.

The moment my ex-wife had conceived a child; all sex stopped. And she told me outright that now that she had a kid, she didn't have to deal with me sexually as there was no way I would leave because if I did she'd screw me over hard.

Power differentials like that can encourage people to act in bad faith.

A similar scenario existed back before sexual harassment laws were passed. Power differentials allowed men to essentially lay women against their will; and the fact they could get away with it encouraged them to act in bad faith.

The power differential in divorce allows women to force men into chastity against their will.

For men who would suffer enormous financial harm or loss of access to children by giving their so-called wives what they deserve -- a speedy divorce -- the hobby offers an expedient, albeit highly imperfect, alternative.

Also, many wives make their husbands feel like shit for even bringing up the topic of sex. They make the men feel like they are doing their wives a favor by cheating.

Consider that a wife's unmet core emotional needs can often be met by people outside the marriage without moral sanction.

Whereas a man's unmet core emotional need for sex cannot be met outside the marriage without moral sanction.

A husband doesn't have a legal monopoly on providing his wife with money -- because she is entitled to work. He doesn't have a monopoly on intimate conversation; which she can have with a friend of either sex without sanction. Etc.

But a wife DOES have a legal monopoly on providing her husband with sex.

And it is because she has a legal monopoly and he CAN'T get it elsewhere without moral sanction that a wife's failure to fulfill that need willingly is a more serious issue than the man's failure to provide non-sexual intimacy or a willing ear.

-- Modified on 5/22/2010 9:09:39 PM

WebTerrorist 151 reads
posted
26 / 28

was a bitch...sorry but from what you wrote it is true.

I don't dispute that there are cases where people are acting out of malice...but maybe I am naive or stupid, but for the most part I believe people do act from  a place of goodwill even if those good intentions go awry in practical application.

Here is an interesting thing, you mentioned wives having a monopoly over their husband's sexual recourse, but that husbands don't have th same over their wives "emotional" needs.  

I kind of disagree on that, their are moral judgments and sanctions against someone "falling in love with" someone else while they are married.

Conversation with a family member, a friend (of wither gender), co-worker etc. is not the same as conversation with your spouse.  The qualities of being appreciated or respected, etc from anyone "platonic" in your life doesn't fill the need for that with a partner one "romantically" loves.

I have friends, good friends, male and female.
I will spend girl's nights with my female friends where we talk about all kinds of things, and I have even had sex with a few of my female friends...
it doesn't fill my desire or need for a partner.
It doesn't make me less lonely in that aspect of my life, I love my friends, by that love is not the same as what I would have for an SO, so it doesn't replace an SO in my life, no matter how good the conversation, or jokes, or sex. *grin*

Women can find "emotional" support outside of marriage, but it won't fill the need for it within the marriage, the only thing that will do that is an affair, even if the one she has an affair with she never has sex with.

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 100 reads
posted
27 / 28

... and I can't disagree with what you are saying.

TrulyMsMocha See my TER Reviews 135 reads
posted
28 / 28

I've only done it once for him to get his sh*t together...it worked. Anyone who does it whether they it's for the other person's good or punishment....they do it because...they can.

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