Hey Community,
I am looking for some insight from you smart, experienced and talented folks. I have given quite a bit of thought to a more substantive arrangement. I have been thinking it would be great to have a pro that I could see regularly (whom I haven't found yet). The issue is I have never been a big fan of the wham bam get in get out thing. Physically, it's great, but still feels to me like there's something lacking (Connection, Intimacy). Which is why I've usually enjoyed FBSM with great endings versus PSE.  

Anyway, I just started looking at Seeking Arrangements. Initially, I thought it would be great to have a "girlfriend" I could see or chat with regularly, if infrequently. As a matter of fact I think I would love to have a casual girlfriend-there I said it. I logged on to SA for the first time and now I am not so sure. For all of the positives, there seem to be some issues too. Seems to me like the women there are all about the money. I get it, but considering the monthly allowance you have no idea what their personality is like or bedroom wise which is what you'd be paying for. Most of the women want financial commitments prior to meeting even casually and finally one always worries about discretion. For the money it's nearly a toss up between a regular pro and a SB. I am certain lots of you ladies on TER have done both and I am sure lots of you fellas have dipped into both. So, I am interested to hear your insights and experiences. BTW, I am in the Chicago area.

f you are seeking a Sugarbabe, I'd recommend Seekingarrangement. com . Many of these newer "sugardaddy" sites are total scams like Adultfriendfinder. Even on SA 90% of the girls will be hookers. Some work UTR. Others use one name for hooking and another name for the Sugardaddy sites.

Only about 10% of the girls are legitimate sugarbabes. The ideal Sugarbabe is a full time college co-ed or some girl who is serious about her career. No, I don't mean hooking careers. LOL

Hookers can be useful on SD sites if you know the game and want a quick fix. If they aggressively ask you for money right away it is definitely a hooker. If you agree to a sum of money prior to meeting just make sure you don't pay out front. Play it smart and you can get the AYWB (Anything You Want Baby) menu out of the hookers on there.

Having said that; hookers make terrible sugarbabies. They calculate their time as so much for an hour, more for two hours , extra for dinner dates etc.

The primary difference is that you will have to allow some romance and mentoring into a successful sugarbaby relationship. In other words, you can't just pay them, fuck them and discard them like an old shoe.

The first meeting should be lunch or dinner to see if they are worth a sugarbaby arrangement. Get their real name, school work etc the first time you meet them. Then check them out. You can use a place like US search, Spokeo etc. Verify employment, run credit inquires , known addresses etc. I taught my lawyer how to be a sugardaddy and we have a PI to check them out. Stay away from the unemployed, hookers or any girl you think might want to double dip.

Finding the right one can be hard work but the rewards are real off the hook civilian sex and maybe having one around for years.Of course, you still see a few hookers for variety.

Glossary of Terms:
CL = CraigsList.

SA = SeekingArrangement.com.

SD4M = SugarDaddyForMe.com.
WYP = WhatsYourPrice.com.

 
How to Recruit a Sugar Baby? Some guys have luck advertising themselves on M4 W in CL. For real civilian co-eds and 20-somethings, try:
http://www.seekingarrangement.com/ (known as College Sugarbabies) and.
http://www.sugardaddyforme.com/
http://www.whatsyourprice.com/
http://www.sugardaddytoday.com/

Spend a few weeks checking out these sites and getting a feel for them and the type of girls you will be meeting. On Seeking Arrangement make sure you get yourself "verified" for a $49 one-time fee. They have a third party company that checks you out for: Criminal records, Registered Sex Offenders, Sex Crimes, Violent Crimes, Domestic Violence, Felonious and Misdemeanor Assaults. The girls feel safer and you will get way more responses and more productive initial meetings that way.

How to Keep Your Real Life away from your Sugar Baby:. Create a Hobby Identity (HI) and ALWAYS use it with ALL SBs.
Create a new Hobby Name for exclusive use with ALL SBs, and RB members you choose to meet or communicate with outside monger boards.

Choose a fairly common name that has 15+ people using it as their legal name with linkedin accounts in the Bay Area, including several with no photos

Create a Hobby Back Story (e.g., "private investor") that has nothing to do with your real life, business, or what city / town you reside or work. Never give real personal info in conversation. Don't tell them where you really live. Be extremely vague or lie about employment.

Either use a pre-paid Hobby Phone, or the password-protected http://Line2.com app on your Android or iPhone for a separate Hobby Line (HL) with your Hobby Name as caller ID.

SBs are to use your HL exclusively for texts and calls to VM.

If you want to show a document, e.g. STD test results, use Adobe Acrobat to change your real name to your Hobby Name.
Auto-lock your Android or iPhone after 1 minute of non-use to keep prying SB and wives eyes out of it.

Open a free Hobby Email Account (e.g. Gmail).

Get a Hobby Snail Mail Address at a PO Box or Private Mail Box for any paper hobby-related statements. Better to use online statements to your Hobby Email Account.

 
Buy a Hobby Wallet for SB and date cash, with a hiding place for Hobby Debit Card.

Keep your vehicles off-limits to your SBs, and park far and walk to meetings.

 
Use iPhone 5's new Map app (or Android equivalent) with turn-by-turn spoken directions for navigating to SB rendezvous and AAMPs, instead of your vehicle's built-in NAV, which has to be erased after each use.

Use a Hobby FastTrak RFID device tied to your Hobby Debit Card to pay tolls when hobbying, or just wait in line and pay cash.

Never pick-up a receipt for anything you pay for during a SB date.

No hosting if you have an S.O.

 
I use bank / brokerage accounts and credit cards I had before got married that the wife know nothing about. You can check into hotels and keep it under an assumed name or "unregistered." Just tell the hotel manager you need to do that for security purposes. That will keep your babe from knowing your real name. Pay cash whenever possible. Sugar babies are great, but they don't always end well... If you create a Hobby Identity by following the above recommendations, you will be almost extortion-proof, unless your SB hires a private investigator!

How to Spot and Avoid a Hooker Posing as a Sugar Baby:

To eliminate hookers look for code words: GFE, BBBJ, outcall, etc. $400 1st hour $700.00 for 2 hours, $700.00 if it includes a dinner date etc. are all signs of hookers. Avoid glam shots, pictures taken in motels, etc. Use google image search, tineye etc. To eliminate hookers. Google phone numbers and email addresses. Google is your friend.

How to tell if she's a Civilian?

Civilian girls don't count hours. They are hoping for a fixed monthly amount for an arrangement. Always pay them by the meeting the first month. After that some pay them every two weeks or monthly. The legit ones will give you their phone # right away in email before you meet them so you can text the day you're meeting. A phone number trace can get the name and other info the phone number is in. US search is pretty reliable:

 Real civilian sugar babies DO NOT use pre-paid phones in fake names with fake addresses. If their name is on their cell phone, you can get advance intel off facebook, twitter, linkedin etc. Before you even meet them. Always ask a college SB to show you her student I'd after she tells you what school she goes to. If it's an older girl, it's easy to verify employment. If the girl is legit, she will tell you her real name and even show you her I'd if you are a verified member.

The Initial Meeting:

First meetings typically take place at a Starbuckor take her to lunch. To talk privately, either find a private table outside, take your prospective sugar baby for a walk, or just sit in your car. The first goal of the initial meeting is to determine if there is "chemistry". If so, an "arrangement" (frequency of meetings, and her compensation, called a "gift") can be worked out. If she seems promising, then invite her to have  dinner to continue establishing "chemistry". Don't try to rush a new SB into a hotel room for a "test drive"! Never make her feel like a prostitute.

How to Find a Stable Sugar Baby:

Look for SBs who have a decent relationship with their parents or relatives. One reason is because they won't want their parents to know. Therefore, they will be discreet. Another reason is if they had a decent childhood, they are less likely to have emotional problems. If you select the right SB, she will want her privacy as much as you.

Bareback Sex with Your Sugar Baby.
If you want condom-free sex (and even if you don't) ask them if they are willing to be tested. This shows you they are responsible and disease-free.

Its hard work to get started, but the rewards are well worth it. The sex will be off the hook compared to the (usually) mechanical hooker sex with too many rules.

-- Modified on 7/28/2015 3:21:02 PM

Some SB have no idea how much things ad up and forget how much you spent on them. Also stay away from the SB with kids, the amount of time they have to spend with you will be very restricted. It is best to have a one on one introduction meeting before getting into the pleasure side of things. That way if you find something that does met your criteria you can cut loose before the feelings get hurt.

I have tried both and I like hobby more than a SB. The professional providers are a much better bargain imho.

that is, intimacy at a reasonable cost without lots of hassles finding different gals all the time, and still the freedom from unwanted baggage and drama.

However I wonder how often guys end up with the worst of both worlds instead, that is, getting snookered into ever increasing costs because their gal has money issues or outright RL problems, and getting out is looking messy.  In the meantime, the pressures make the sex less hot.

Now I haven't done a SB relationship myself, but life has taught me that things go south a lot more easily than they go north.

So, my advice is:  Find a girl friend if you really crave the intimacy angle; otherwise, stick to straight up pay for play.

I've considered it once, recently, with my fav. She would prefer that, and has told me so. It could be doable for me financially. And it would be worth it just for the sex alone if we had unrestricted time together three evenings a week; our great interpersonal chemo would just be a huge bonus over the sex. Currently I prefer her over all others. For now.  

But there is no assurance that each night with me would not be preceded with a day filled with 1-3 other pay-for-play dates (and considering how she fucks, it would be like three hours of Bikram yoga). Given the stiff financial premium required for a solid sugar arrangement, this uncertainty would be intolerable for me. IMHO a SB/Escort is inherently FinSex Motivated and untrustworthy in that way. If she sells to me, she's selling to him/him/him too. It's like Aesop's Fable of the Scorpion and the Frog. Can't blame the scorpion for stinging. It's her nature.  

That's why sugaring seems irrational to me. In reality, you are only buying the exact time she's with you. And not a minute more/before. There is no exclusivity even on the very day you see her. It's all illusion. So, I'd rather be a sober "Educated Consumer" like SYMS clothing. Single Serving Size P4P.

Myself included. I hit the jack pot personality wise, and am well taken care of financially. Of course, I do my part too!  

If you have an endless flow of cash, you should go for it. If you have a specific allowance, I suggest finding an arrangement as opposed to an all out manogymous Sugar Baby. Also note, if you are fully supporting her, and she is not seeing others, remember to budget in all expenses. Paying for dates, gifts, and accommodations. If you keep her happy, you have a better chance of her sticking around.

Pretty much sums it up. One that I was seeing as SB was constantly begging. Please, Please, Please do you have some extra money. It became nerve racking.

But I very much disagree with the idea that 90% of the women on SA are pros.  I don't know what the percentage is, but it seems very low.  There are also some with GPS who are all about the money.  But there are many really down-to-earth GND types who LOVE sex and are willing to accept $300 or less for multiple rounds over 2-4 hours.  

A few keys for me:

If you like multiple-hour dates for a reasonable price, consider SBs.  If you are content with 1-hour sessions, stick to the pros.  A huge advantage of SBs is the amount of time you get, plus the date is largely untimed and unrushed.  As a rough rule, a 3-hour date with a SB will cost about the same as 1 hour with a pro.

Do you have time to search profiles, establish a connection, meet, and decide whether or not to move forward?  If your time is very tight, you may want to stick with the pros.  The SB approach requires an up-front investment of time.

Do you want to make a connection and have repeat dates?  If so, consider a SB.  If you are strictly a variety guy, the pros are probably better for you.  With a SB you will need to invest some time up front, probably too much for just a single date.

Feel free to PM me.  I know 20 or so guys who are in or have dabbled in the SB/SD world.

Strongly suggest you head over to the Erotic Highway board.  There is a person, Zangari, who has posted a number of items regarding the SD/SB situation.

I've been doing this for eight years. The first "arrangements"  I worked out were on the old CL. The ideal SD is always a full time student serious about finishing school or some girl who has a career she is serious about but needs extra money. My current SB is a grad student,  

Regardless of what monger boards think of them, they don't look at themselves as hookers. You can't just walk in with C notes and say "Here's the money, Get to work." Civilian girls could never bring themselves to be hookers or they would be on one of these boards.  

It not that big of a hassle once you know what you are doing. The pay is based on need. Usually 1-2k a month. It only gets messy if they want to beyond FW$B. If you choose girls 25 years younger than you that won't happen. Since it's real (non-condom) civilian sex, the sex is off the hook. I only see hookers for variety. I don't turn it into a strictly monogamous relationship. I just don't want any hooking!  

To me straight play for pay means paying for a blowjob (or masturbating into a condom) for an hour with a hooker who I'm sure is hard as nails and mean as cat dirt. They would have to be that way to do this kind of work.  

It's definitely two different worlds.

It could vary from one region to another but in the San Francisco/Silicon Valley area the hookers have been working those sites for years.  They try to fool us with different pictures and new stage names. Experienced mongers are not easily fooled. I have had hookers who seemed to want to be a SB but I wonder what they are really up to.

Just play around until you find a lady that you have a genuine rapport with and then spend increasing time with her to deepen the rapport. Many pros are receptive to an ongoing arrangement. If you two really click then it can be the best of both worlds, where you two get to indulge in genuine intimacy while respecting the boundaries of the arrangement.  

And, if you have any hangups about her fucking other guys... get over it - your SB is fucking around too!

END OF MESSAGE

...and reevaluate who you're choosing to visit and your approach. I for one, have had astounding sex with pros. In the small handful of mediocre encounters I've had, they've admitted that they were close to quitting or were under financial duress.

I never said these relationships were totally monogamous. To a pro a SB deal is a step down. To a civilian a SB arrangement is a step up. Pros mean inflated prices compared to the civilian world. That's why they are called pros.

Well I suppose many marriages are nothing more than a P4P arrangement that includes monogamy, but we will save that discussion for another thread.

I have been in many LTR's with providers, and a few SD/SB type relationships as well and even though I am single I have never DEMANDED monogamy, because IMO if I expect monogamy from her, I have to offer it in return, or as you say "spend a LOT of money" lol

Now I have been "promised" monogamy and I actually believe I have gotten it a few times, but I have NEVER gone out of my way to try to "catch" any of these women "cheating" on me. I subscribe to the "what I don't know won't hurt me" philosophy.

then you are doing something wrong.

Either there is something about you that elicits that response, or you are not checking reviews.

The gals I have found have been wonderful both in attitude and performance.

There is probably more maintenance of boundaries with escorts over SBs, but that can be a good thing in terms of reducing the baggage and risks of too much entanglement

And, I have had some gents that really prefer this instead of the regular hourly meet.  

I was a SB long before I ever started providing. I have always enjoyed the realness of the relationship while still getting the financial benefit. I often will offer this when I find that I am really connecting with a gentleman and he is really enjoying seeing me on a regular basis. More often than not, it will ensure that it is fiscally responsible for the gent to continue seeing me on a regular basis, as our sessions automatically have no clock anymore. I have found the guys that enjoy this the most are the guys who are more into the companionship than just the sex. Because going clockless doesn't always automatically equal that it will be all sex time.  

If this is something that would interest you, take a peek at my site and email me. I do require that we meet a few times normally to see if we connect, but thus far in my experience I havent had a gent regret going SD with me.

Anyone who can master this in the hobby has got it made.  Don't go looking for trouble as you will find it.  But in most cases if you don't look it won't find you.

Interesting.  It seems like a much lower % in NYC and DC.

There are some who surely are pros or semipros, but I think it's a distinct minority in the East.

Z has his own perspective.  I agree with him on a number of things, but certainly not everything.  There are also several threads on the RO board--for those who have access.

The SB approach is viable under certain circumstances.  For some guys, it may be better than seeing pros.  For other guys, the pro approach is better.

I just returned from Las Vegas with a "Special Friend", three days and three nights whom I've known for two years.  We enjoyed a couple of concerts and lavish meals.  We get together about once every four months for overnight dates including daytime and evening fun.  We chat (phone, text or email) a couple of times a week.  

I have a couple of clients/Special Friends that I see regularly whom I've met from TER since my move to LA.  We also chat (email and text) regularly.  I always get excited when I get to spend time with them - and with them, I don't notice a clock in the room.  You know who you are)

Besos,
Olivia

Nobody could have "protection free sex" using that logic. Wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends and almost anybody else could cheat. Condom sex is "Hooker sex." The only "safe sex" is no sex at all. Hey, I'm not in favor of indiscriminate BBFS among hookers and mongers but I enter arrangements to have civilian style non-condom sex.

In my other posts I mentioned it would be a step down for a hooker to be a SB. The ideal SB already has a source of income and just needs supplemental income. Obviously 1500 a month is not going to be enough to live on. The only woman that ever got full support from me is my wife. A SB is not the same thing as a full time 24/7 mistress. He wanted a real mistress and could not afford one.

Just as there are hookers pretending to be civilians/SBs on arrangement sites, there are broke ass wannabe SDs who can't afford a monthly allowance. Some of those fools can only afford one session with an escort.

I have always maintained that an arrangement with a provider is just a hooker on retainer in most cases. As a general rule escorts make terrible SBs.

Not going to disagree with you, we all have different perspectives and differing opinions.  But since the OP was seeking out info, Z puts out a number a posts with info.  

The OP can take from it what he finds useful. Like you said, "For some guys, it may be better than seeing pros.  For other guys, the pro approach is better."