All my sexual experiences have been with providers. I am looking for advice on what I am doing wrong with civies? It frustrates the hell out of me, that at age 35 I can't do what most teenagers do with ease? I suffer from the classic "nice" guy syndrome.. Plus throw in I am super frugal (aka cheap). I don't mind spending money on one date, but the girl quickly gets the vibe I am not into wasting money on them.. I figure if I have to "pay" for their attraction, I am better off with providers.

So how can a cheap nice guy get laid?? I also don't want to put on any act. For me that is more stressful/uncomfortable than sex is worth.

On the flip side, being cheap and nice is terrible for attracting women, but excellent for making money.. My personality allowed me to succeed in business, so I have lots of disposable income.. So perhaps you can't have your cake and eat it?


-- Modified on 10/30/2012 5:45:40 PM

you are wired that way. A leopard can't change its spots....as the old adage goes.

Just enjoy the hobby and make sure that envelope is not short changed.

Hit the return button twice before I finished typing.

Anyway maybe you should be on Match.com
Just be sure to mention you have lots of disposable income and I am sure you'll have gads of civies coming your direction.

is a total turn off. It is like the guy who does nothing but brag about his house, what he drives, and then tips the bare minimum for exceptional service. Get a sugar mamma or stick with providers.

Nurturing a relationship takes a helluva lot more effort than paying a woman a few hundred for a sure thing. And, the fact that you seem to be approaching this with the idea that all women are looking for you to "pay" for their attraction is problematic in and of itself.

Sure, some women are looking for a meal ticket---or, at minimum, a guy who has money to throw around. But, by no means all women. And, honestly, no one here can tell you 'what you're doing wrong'.
No one here knows what you do or don't do.

But some very general suggestions:

1. Don't get disappointed when a woman doesn't behave like women you see in porn videos.
2. Don't assume 'civie' women are going to act like providers. They simply do not have the same motivation to stroke your ego.
3. Remember that there is a difference between being frugal or not having a lot of money, and being "cheap". Being "cheap" is never attractive. Now, as you have not clarified what you mean by "cheap", it's hard to comment on that.

So, I'll just say that I know many delightful men in healthy relationships who do not make much money. These guys are not captains of industry--nor do they care to be. But they are generous and kind and considerate and honest. They are trustworthy, and dependable, and devoted fathers. They are willing to compromise (read that as not always get their own way). And, they don't disrespect their GF's/wives by being on a continuous secret hunt for new pussy. They enjoy the good times, ride out the not so good times.....and so on.

Relationships take work. And, I think well worth the effort if that's what you want.

Return regular visits, I think, are the best tips.  

I don't know if she's beginning to start expecting tips later.  I don't want to spoil her with tips - since I already spoil her by returning every week.

again, you do nothing but brag about how much coin you make. Either spend some of it, or stfu about it lol. We don't need to hear how much money you make...really.

I assume that you are just looking to get laid by a non-professional woman, and are not looking for a relationship (based on your question "how can a cheap nice guy get laid?")

Random advice (no particular order of importance):

Dress well, and in age-appropriate fashion.
Remember, a little cologne goes a long way. Buy the good stuff. If the bottle has a bull, or a tall ship on it, pass it by.
Drive a hot car.
Act like everything bores you.
Don't look hungry.
Stop checking out women, and start looking for the ones that are checking YOU out.
Get good at small talk.
Lower your standards.


On a first date:
Never pay for dinner with one of those half-price, entertainment book coupons.
No matter how cheap you are, never allow her to pay any portion of the dinner check, not even the tip.
Never comment on what, or how much, she orders.
Always offer to split a dessert with her. Always let her eat most of it.
Never glance at another woman; you may think you are being covert, but she will see it, guaranteed.
- if an attractive woman with larger breasts than your date is walking toward you, and you cannot avoid
  looking in her direction, fake a seizure. Trust me on this.
Movies are a bad first date choice; if it's the "only show in town", a horror flick is the best choice to get
  her to snuggle in close. Avoid mangina chick flicks like the plague, you can't hope to stack up against
  pussies like justin timberlake or that big doofus from "forgetting sarah marshall" and "how I met your
   mother". If it's supposed to be a sad movie, poke yourself in the eye and then pretend you are
  trying to hide the tears. Again, trust me.
Compliment her three times, but space them out so they don't seem contrived. Shoes, earrings, hair, outfit, perfume are all acceptable topics. Tits, ass, legs, and dick-sucking lips need to wait a bit.

That's all I got at the moment. Let me know how it turns out.

Ditto on the "Large ship and the bull" on cologne lol. Clarence, you should come post on my blog...this shit is funny!

Actually, that's my plan any time a woman asks me one of those dangerous questions, the ones that have no right answer -
"Do these jeans make my ass look fat?"
"Which pair of earrings should I wear?"
"Why doesn't your mother like me?"

Fake a seizure. You'll come out of it with a headache and a few bruises, but at least you'll be alive.

And I will check out your blog, you are a lot of fun.

Act like everything bores you and don't look hungry.

Crap. That's funny.

There are plenty of women who are just as interested in having NSA sex as men. You have to figure out who, and where they are. That's step one. There are too many men in your position who are sniffing around the wrong women.

Step two is to make yourself desirable. Your appearance matters. It helps if you are gorgeous, especially if you really want to be with shallow women, but it's not crucial. Dress well, smell good, and hit the gym. Your attitude matters MORE. No woman wants to screw a guy who is needy, whiny, acts either desperate, or entitled. Try to relax, project confidence, and be easy to talk to. A sense of humor helps. Get one.

Not all women want to date (or screw) a man just because he has money, but if you play the cheap routine to an extreme, you will drive quite a few away. If a woman knows you have money, and you make a point of not spending it, you will probably turn her off.

When I was young, and hadn't yet had much success with women, it was all about me. I was convinced that the world was against me, that only jerks and assholes got laid while I, the nicest guy in the world, couldn't get laid in a whorehouse with fifty dollar bills sticking out of my ears. When I started to think about women more and myself less - what they were looking for (and yes, how they saw me instead of how I saw me) I started getting more than I had ever dreamed of.

you might end up with a girl named "Lola"

Oh, you'll get laid. But it will change you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the fact that you are 35 years old and not one woman ever slept with you for free should tell you that you are probably doing something wrong when it comes to relating to the opposite sex... Maybe you should think about the way you view women. For example, your handle "1800HotStud" sounds about as douchey as one can get... It is one thing to do that on an escort review site, but if the same carries over to real life, that could explain your problems. Remember, escorts may tolerate someone who is a douche for the money, but it is strictly because of the contents of the envelope... In real life being a jerk with an over-inflated sense of self is not necessarily a good tactic. It works when you are paying someone to act like she likes you, or when you are in your early 20's dating girls who are the same age (even then it only works on certain girls) but when you are a 35-year-old man, women expect you to act a little more maturely.

You characterized yourself as a nice guy but I'm not sure what qualifies you as such. (No, I'm not saying you aren't a nice guy, I'm just wondering why exactly you labeled yourself a a classic nice guy, "1800HotStud"...) You said, " I don't mind spending money on one date, but the girl quickly gets the vibe I am not into wasting money on them.. " If you think women are a waste of money, entertainment and getting to know each other is a waste of money, many women will NOT consider you a nice guy, but a jerk who equates money with effort, hence someone who is a waste of time for most women.

Don't get me wrong, I've met guys like that many times and have put on my game face, pretended that they were fine company, but only as "Nora", and never for free. There are certain things I will tolerate because I'm getting paid well for doing so, but I will never put up with any kind of douchery without an envelope. If I'm on a real life date, I absolutely have to feel 100% comfortable with the man I’m with. Certain things will always be a turn-off, and the behavior you describe falls into that category. If you are bragging about making a lot of money, yet you don't want to spend any of it on entertaining a woman... There lies your problem. No, you don’t need to date golddiggers, but being stingy is not a good quality. I’ve never heard a woman (or man) say, “he is such a nice guy and he is so cheap, it’s such a turn-on.” Au contraire.

Being generous is a quality most women (and men) seek, but it does not only mean financial generosity. A man who gives his time, attention, advice, compliments, etc freely can easily compete with one who contributes financially. Most women are givers and nurturers, they will go to great lengths for a man they care for… But they would also like to see some kind of an effort on your end… Even though it doesn’t sound like you want a relationship, treating a woman as if you actually care will take you much further than any pickup tactic we could give you. (But if you need some inspiration for how to spring horrible pickup lines on unsuspecting victims, I recommend “The Game”, a book written strictly for (and by) guys who think of women as objects and prizes to be f*cked…)

If you are not interested in a relationship and just want to “score” with someone for free, consider women’s motivation for sleeping with a man. It could be a number of reasons but the following are probably the most popular:

- We think you have relationship/marriage potential (though some women will hold out on you for a long time if they feel that this is the case). It is arguable whether you should mislead women and exploit their fairytale dreams... I don't think it's ethical, but many of my guy friends choose to do it and it works for them... It requires certain skills and you have to be able to pass as a potential partner. It is not likely to happen in one date, as you seem to hope...
- We find you very sexy (yes, some guys are just lucky /skilled, they are the smooth operators who can get laid with their eyes closed… I have a few friends like this: they could stand around in a club doing absolutely nothing and women will literally slip their phone numbers into their pockets. But unless you look and/or act like a rock star, this will remain a dream…)
- We feel guilty for you spending so much money on us – this will probably not work for you, unless you are willing to drop the stingy act…

Your best bet is probably #2: to become sexy enough for women to want to go home with you… Here is some advice on how to do that: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1215420/What-REALLY-makes-woman-want-sleep-man.html

No matter what, please try to forget about what happens in P4P and relate to women on a human level...

Good luck!

-- Modified on 10/31/2012 12:33:47 AM

Thanks for the very detailed reply! I can assure you I am no douche in real life! The handle, 1800hotstud is just a fantasy for someone with a non-existent sex life outside of occasional p4p.. Now I agree with the rest of your post. It confirmed what I've thought..  I think the gist of it is that I need to work on finding someone I really like. Otherwise I am better off with occasional p4p as I do not want to put on any act and mislead/deceive any women..

I was like you when I was in my 20s.  A friend of mine was in therapy with a guy and insisted on me calling that therapist immediately, and that changed my life for the better for ever.

Finding the right person is the key.  I suggest an older male who has some experience in your (not at all uncommon) situation.

I nominate Clarence if he's willing.  He's given you a lot of good advice.

My therapist worked on both internal and external issues leading me to start practicing mediation (still do) ,and dressing and living well.  (still do)  He even covered how I walk (Check out Yul Brenner sometime.)

Here's an excellent piece of advice from my therapist that really go the ball rolling:

Women will start lining up to see you when you get out of the line to see them.

Ponder that for a while.

(Yup, it's zen.)

HUGE turn off IMO.  Doesn't mean you have to pay for everything, but those people who get out calculators to figure out a tip at a restaurant KILL me.  How tacky.  So you pay for 2-3 dates and hopefully she's a modern enough woman where she volunteers to pay on the 3rd or 4th date.  There are independent, self sufficient woman out there and that is a huge turn on for me.  

In my experience, cheap people aren't overly interesting.  Their sense of humors generally aren't overly dynamic.  

The worst for me is the cheap person with money.  So you are successful and you're not living check to check.  You do very well for yourself.  But you never tip more than 10% at a restaurant....or take the coupon to the gas station for 4 cents off a gallon?  Yuck.  So many more things to worry about.  If you have money, worry about more important things.  

Unless you are interesting and have a good sense of humor, you're dead in the water if you ask me.

I'm going to fuck him, I just hope he doesn't say anything stupid. your problem isn't the fact that you're cheap. Your problem is the fact that somehow you bring this up in conversation and look like an ass for doing so. As another poster had said, being generous isn't about money. You can have a great experience, without going to a 5 star restaurant and being cheap on the tip. Romance has nothing to do with your bankroll.

I have a friend of mine, who is constantly being taken advantage of because he's rich, and generous. He does first dates at lavish places and throws all kinds of money around. I told him several times, to try and do normal people first and second dates. Insuring that somebody doesn't want you for your money is okay. Not telling them that you're loaded on the first few dates is okay. having no imagination, expecting sex on date 1/, being boastful without backing it up, and throwing of that cheap vibe, not okay. when you throw of that cheap vibe, what the lady is reading, is that you do not believe she is worth it. Without a wholesale change in personality and technique, nothing about your dating life will change.

Insanity is repeating the same action over and over, and expecting a different result. Whatever you have been doing up until now, Obviously is not working. You're not 20 years old anymore, you're in your mid thirty's. You may find that your dating life will change when you start looking at life like other mid thirty's people do. Most, not all, women of this age are not looking for 1 night stands. that doesn't mean that they are looking to get married, it just means that it's going to take more than 1 date. Which also means that you are going to have to spend money on her more than once. If on rare occasions you happen to find that diamond in the rough woman, who is simply looking for a 1 night stand, then like Chris Rock says don't say anything stupid. She already made her decision before she ever came across the room. This basically means that anything you ever tried to say or do in the past to get laid ... Yeah don't do that!

-- Modified on 10/31/2012 2:41:38 PM

Match.com is full of women (and men) who misrepresent themselves both photos and personality. I tried it for a short period of my life, but I had to leave two ladies sitting in the coffee shop that we were to meet at. if you're going to lie to me before we ever meet then how often will you lie to me if we date. It's absolutely the worst place to find someone to date.

I would say that men pay for sex all the time, even if they aren't in the hobby. I have a friend that has 5 kids and because of them he can't get out of his loveless sexless marriage without going bankrupt. He's paying his wife every day, she gets to be a stay at home Mom (I'm not at all implying that this is an easy, luxurious life ladies). But she won't have sex with him at all. She sure expects him to come home from work and throw on the tool belt and work around the house. If he does something for himself like goes and plays golf he pays hell for it because she thinks he should be doing something for her with her or the kids. So he rarely does anything for himself. And she bashes him every chance she gets. So he works and supports the entire household and she doesn't take care of him sexually at all.

So, I guess my point is that if you waste time, money and energy on Match you'll only be frustrated. I like the hobby because we both know each others motivation up front and I know exactly how much it's going to cost me and I also know I'm going to get laid. The added bonus is that I don't have to listen to any nagging and there won't be any fighting and I don't have to listen to any bullshit that I'm not interested in listening to. I don't have to throw on the tool belt unless I want to and when I want to, and I'll be dammed if any woman is going to tell me if and when I can play golf or do anything that I want to do. She gets her money and I get my nut (perhaps she does too, an added bonus) and we are both happy. I do sleep alone at night, but honestly I prefer that anyway.

Here's a couple more

Don't stare at their breast
Smile and look at their lips
Listen to what they have to say
Comment on what ever subject they are talking about, but don't try and fix their problem
Be courteous, woman still like having doors opened and chairs pulled out for them
Drop any attitudes and just be yourself
Have fun, don't take everything so serious

If your ONLY goal is to get laid, it shouldn't be too hard.
Maybe that's why civvie girls don't want to get with you.

You're mixing up disposable income with discretionary income.
And if you claim to have "lots" of it available, why are you so cheap?

If you find yourself as a person who is cheap, trying giving to charity.  Cheap is an attitude problem similar to hording.  Best way to fix that is to help others with no expectation of reward.  Find a local soup kitchen, animal shelter, children's hospital, arts organization, religious institution or something that interests you in some way. Then as you begin to give you will notice more opportunities and want to give.  That is a good sign you are becoming less cheap.  

Where is the darn thing? I can't wait to comment...