I don't expect a lot of compassion from the general population here, but I'm not a member of any other forums. So why not? I'll post it here. Rip me a new asshole or ignore me. Whichever. I don't care...

I've been heartbroken so much in my civvie relationships that it's actually started to affect me sexually. My current (soon to be ex?) gf has begun to pull the same shit my ex-wife did...and the ex before that...and the one before that. Only this one did it almost overnight. Out of the clear blue. Unlike some guys, I actually tried to engage her in helpful and proactive conversation. "When we met, you were more adventurous in bed. Now, you barely seem interested. Did something happen? What can I do to help with that? If there is something I can do, please feel free to tell me because I really feel like it might help us." Her replies were condescending and dismissive. "it's not you; it's me" and so on. Then, this happens.  

Recently after returning home on business, I discovered she had left her vibrator in plain sight (presumably after using it one night while I was gone). I had been suggesting we try using her toy collection a bit in our love making. After all, she was the one who excitedly mentioned in the beginning that she had sex toys. She never showed them to me, and when I found this one (on accident), she brushed off my suggestion that she show me how she uses it. This is the same woman who no less than a year and a half ago thought nothing of blowing and fucking me in the shower, wearing sexy lingerie for me, blindfolded and cuffed me, etc. Now, she's obviously masturbating while I'm gone (which is totally fine with me), but what do I have to do to get her to be so free with me again?  

The latest (final?) conversation on the subject was the most disheartening. Somehow we ended up conversing about how sexually compatible we had been in the beginning, but now not so much. Her response was devastating. "It was easy to be slutty when I didn't know you." Wait, what? I felt like I had been duped. What a stupid asshole I am!  

I want to stress that since we've been together, I have lurked here but haven't mongered or cheated in any way. Worst I've done was jerk off when I was either traveling for business or visiting family. I wanted to make this relationship work and was determined to do it right this time.  

But her attitude is really making me just want to give up. At first, I thought, "she's gonna force me back into mongering." But after thinking it through a bit more, to tell you the plain truth (believe it or not - idc), this whole thing (and the years of similar situations in years' past) is turning me off to sex and relationships in general. I don't want to monger. I don't even want to look at women walking past me on the street. It makes me sick, and I just want to isolate and say "fuck the world!"  

Anyone can relate to this? Suggestions? Other than dump her (which may happen anyway)...

Your friend (and fiend),  

Bill

I'd venture a guess that 90% or more of relationships end up like this.

 
Give up trying to figure out why.   We've been trying ever since language was invented.

 
Instead, figure out whether you would want to be with a person even if there was zero sex.   If so, then be with them and relate on a different level.   Assuming that you are still interested in sex, you would then have to figure out a way to find that sex without her finding out (I tried and it worked about 10 years but I got found out, and divorced.)    The other path is to find someone who doesn't care, or who actively supports you seeing escorts.   That's what I have now.  No complaints.

 
Thanks for sharing.

As for your problem, my only advice is try washing your nut sack.
Good luck!

You’re general feelings about being totally turned off at the thought of both civvie and PFP relationships makes me think it’s time for you to try individual therapy.

Now, if you love this woman and would want to be with her if the sex were better, you might want to try couples counseling.

END OF MESSAGE

thank you, cks. this is really helpful. i've been in individual therapy for a few years already, but couples counseling is something i frankly had not considered. i will probably ask my therapist for recommendations.  

thanks again...

My wife and I were having somewhat similar issues.  

 
A counselor friend suggested we read the Tell Me No Lies book together. So several evenings a week we’d take turns reading it to each other and stopping to talk about issues together.

 
This really worked for us.  

 
But since then we’ve recommended it to other struggling couples. We’ve found that this book can become a litmus test. If one member of the relationship shows no interest in doing this together you’ve learned something important. They are done and have no further interest in the relationship.  

 
All you can do at that point is just get the divorce papers ready and work through it to the best of your ability.

Maybe she still loves you and perhaps she's even still IN LOVE with you.   But she's clearly not physically into you at this point.  

 
This has been a recurring pattern in your relationships so either you're picking the wrong women OR (and I'm sorry but this is a real possibility) something in your life, or about yourself, turns them off of sex.

 
In one of my recent relationships, I lost all interest in him physically.  I didn't lose my sex drive, I still had feelings for him, but certain things he did outside the bedroom turned me off of sex with him.  (I basically lost respect for, and trust in, him)  
 So perhaps something like that has happened here and even in your past relationships.

 
Being gone on frequent business trips could cause the spark to go out; being more invested in your work life in general could do it; always dropping everything for your mother rather than her could kill her interest too.  

Seriously, it could be anything and if she isn't willing to talk about it, then it likely cannot be fixed.

 
You have my sympathy. xoxoxo

-- Modified on 6/10/2021 9:41:15 AM

My wife gave the best BJs and all the sex I wanted for the first 25 years we were together.  After a specific legal event which gave her financial security, she stopped.  Have been hobbying ever since.  Sex with strangers is fun and exciting if not better than with the wife.  I still sleep with her every night with no expectation of sex.  I get all the sex I can dream of in hobbyland.

the same towards you provides all the information you need to know.   Here are three pearls of wisdom;

 
1)  Does not take an intellectual giant to see, there IS something about you, something you have consistently shown to all three, that elicits the very same reaction--from ALL THREE of them.  This could not be more clear.

 
2)  Unfortunately, there are many things about ourselves that are obvious to others and completely undetectable to ourselves.  It is kind of like scratching that unreachable part of your back.  You will need someone who you trust, to help you figure this out.  You will never figure it out on your own.

 
3)  Relationships can be like going to sleep.  If we try too hard to sleep (too many things on our minds, or whatever) we will never get to sleep--we must find a way to relax and remember not to try too hard!  Depending upon all the other dynamics of a relationship, this can make you look pitiful/weak and not even remotely desirable.  When it comes to relationships, clearly if we do not try at all, they will go no where.  But if we try too hard, invariably we come off as unbecoming and eventually push the other person away.

The Faster you go from Denial to Acceptance, the better you will be..  

 
Dump this bitch and move on.  Maybe she will realize that she is missing out on a decent guy.  If it were me, I would book with a nice provider, sooner than later, and tell her that you had an amazing session, and it only cost you XXX.  

 
Last thing you want to do is sound like a lost puppy who needs a hug when dealing with ungrateful people. Seems like you are trying your best to communicate, and she doesn't want to.. Her loss.

-- Modified on 6/10/2021 11:52:13 AM

There are basically two kinds of women . . . .  those that understand that men are simple creatures, and those that don't.  

 
1.  The vast majority of women do not understand men.  This woman finds a man, and thinks he is ALMOST perfect, and that if she is in a LTR with him, she can work on his imperfections and change him into exactly what she wants.  Men don't really want to be changed into something else that the woman may want.  At the same time, the man falls for this same woman and thinks she IS perfect.   In the beginning, she is a hot, passionate lover that can't seem to get enough sex.  Every man's dream, right?  HIS hope is that she NEVER changes.  He could keep her forever.  In the end, NEITHER one of them get what they wanted.  He resists being changed into someone who is not himself, and she grows weary trying to change him and loses interest in the hot lust that they shared in the beginning.  When you choose a woman who doesn't understand men, this is what happens . . . . . every time.  

 
2.  Then there are the rare women who DO understand that men are simple creatures.  Men need only two things to stay happy with a woman . . . . food and sex.    If she asks if you are hungry and you say, "No", she should drag you into the bedroom and fuck your brains out.   If she asks if you're horny, and you say, "No", she should take you into the kitchen and make you a sandwich.  This is a woman you will never want to leave.  I was lucky enough to be married to one like this, and SHE is the one who explained this to me when I marveled after 15 years of marriage that she had been able to keep me happy and faithful.  (Unfortunately, she died suddenly from a stroke a year later).  These WOMEN WHO GET IT are out there, you just can't let yourself settle for the first kind that is determined to "work on" your imperfections.   Once she realizes you are not going to change and her mission has failed, you will get exactly the kind of non-interest you have experienced in your three or four examples.

thanks for making the time, everyone.

she sounded like a very smart and sensitive person.

..with the exception that it's pretty hard to find a wife who is attractive and wants to cook, or even knows how to cook. LOL. In  most cases you will be making your own sandwich..  

 
Most of my high school, and college  friends married decent looking women somewhere in their 20s.  Back in the day, our culinary skills were limited to piercing holes in the plastic foil, and skillfully punching the right time on the microwave, so as not to burn the "food".  20 yrs later, my friend invites me over for BBQ because the cat is away, and cooks some wicked ribs out in the smoker..  

 
"Where you learned to cook all this?"  I asked. He replied "Marriage.. When you are married to a woman that brings home a six figure income, she doesn't want to cook".  Now it really doesn't matter that he is actually more successful than her, and brings home more than her.. He still has to do the meal and the dishes.. LOL.  That's what life looks like in lot of places, in 2021.

-- Modified on 6/10/2021 12:57:00 PM

I like to cook and don't mind cleaning up either. I find both relaxing.

But you said you've been in therapy for years. Maybe it takes some courage to seek out that help, but its necessity may make you unsuitable for some relationships.  
.
That said, long term intensity in sexual relationships isn't a given. Remember that more than 70% of divorces are initiated by women. They get bored of their men.

Hey Bill
  Have you tried roll playing or anything else of that nature?!

There is a common denominator in all of your relationships: you. You are an active participant (you should be). Problems arise when one becomes the passive observer in a relationship that really needs the work of two people to flourish. Don't let the relationship be an act "done" to you.  

Also: Intimacy and sex starts way before the bedroom. Its starts in the mind. I've heard through various casual opinions that once a man "wins" the girl, he stops fighting (courting) . The same I am sure can be said of women who don't "try". But In any case, it is the start of a slow, painful dead bedroom.

Women like to feel sexy. Not simply the act of being sexy. It's the thought that YOU find every single thing about them irresistible. Its for the same reason that I cum harder than a banshee when I am told I'm beautiful in the act.  It's also for the same reason that you step lighter after a session where a companion may shower you with genuine compliments. The "Gas-Up" is real. It's a confidence booster. Its an aphrodisiac.  

It might materialize as a random text while she's at work: "thinking about your ass in those jeans you wore on saturday 😈"  

Other times its making a decisive effort to not just always Netflix and Chill! LOL

People underestimate the ritual of getting ready for a date...her putting on makeup, heels, and a sexy dress... you --getting your haircut, wearing that favorite shirt she likes, and putting on that cologne that makes her stick on you like a cat with catnip.. the ritual of dating puts you in a sexy mood. The same way that lighting candles and playing music does. Keep dating your SO!

The flip side: P4P is simple. You get to experience a perfect slice life with someone showing you their absolute tippy-top best side of themselves. The sexiest side. The uncomplicated side. All of the dating rituals. You get to experience the act and wild rush of romance, without the commitments and ultimately - the mundane routine - of a relationship. It really is a perfect time capsule of the "honeymoon" phase without the messy extras if you are doing it right. And that is what is special and quite frankly -- the addictive dynamic -- by comparison, of paid companionship . Relationships in the real world involve imperfect people, with imperfect personalities, stress, insecurities and fears. I can say this from experience: be ever cognizant of when you start to let the world creep in to where you don't dedicate time to nurture your relationship. It's a mighty slippery slope to the bottom.  

With that said -- both of you have to be active participants. It's easy to play the blame game of who is not doing what --- what matters someone has to start it off. Especially if either one of you are stubborn! LOL  

A suggestion: make a plan to routinely get both you and her away from your normal surroundings. Think a weekend away every other month. This leaves behind the stressors of real life: job, kids, home life, etc and allows you to reconnect with each other.

Not a therapist, but I am romantic that will always root for love! Good luck!

xo

So I hardly need a woman to cook and clean for me.

 
What I do need in a relationship is a healthy sex life and a woman who makes me feel like I am the most important person in the world, to her at least. It sounds like this is gone in your relationship and that it's been gone for some time now despite your best efforts to "fix" what is broken in your relationship. This of course is from listening to only your side of the story, every story has at least two sides of course, but lets stipulate that we are going to believe YOUR side for the purposes of this conversation.  

 
Here is my take on your situation, Sometimes it's just time to throw in the towel on a relationship that's not getting any better. Why "make the best of a bad situation" when you can simply "make a new situation? that has the possibility of making you happy?

 
One further word of unasked for advice, is that you take a bit of time to be introspective and HONESTLY ask yourself how much of this situation is your fault.  You may come to the realization that it wasn't your fault at all, or you may find something in your own behavior that is causing this to happen over and over again. But PLEASE do yourself a favor, quit trying to fix something that is irrevocably broken, they do have a term in divorce court call "irreconcilable differences" even the courts realize that some relationships can't be saved.

But if you did always hobby  
You wouldn't know better.

Sorry I can't be of no help.
I could have used the help. But now it's too late.
Girls are dumb or maybe it's us Tony, Billy, whoever.

OK--if I'm reading into this incorrectly please say so..but I have a suspicion you are coming across as too "needy" or requiring some sort of "validation." Women can sniff that out 100 miles away and I can tell you from my own experiences once they sense even a trace of that trouble lies ahead! NOTHING in this world will turn a woman off more than a guy who "needs" a woman for any kind of reinforcement on his self esteem. Conversely, a guy who always projects a confident (not cocky) positive vibe will always be able to keep the sparks flying! Confidence, personality,  and being comfortable in your own skin is critical!! Add a well-groomed presentation plus a sense of humor to that and you'll ultimately get what you need.

This quote from none other than Marilyn Monroe (as beautiful a woman as has ever graced this Earth) says it all: "If you can make a woman laugh you can make her do anything." CONFIDENCE!!

So try to lighten up, enjoy life, and be free...enjoy the ride and let things happen!!

Has your wife also found other sexual satisfaction also? And you both have agreed, if not stated but understood, to continue your otherwise comfortable life together.

She found someone else while you're away on business.  Also, news flash - age affects everyone sexually.  

-- Modified on 6/23/2021 11:05:26 AM

I’d guess she now cares more about what you think of her and is less inclined to be slutty because of it. Usually this happens after marriage. You’re lucky it occurred before tying the knot.  In many marriages sex becomes boring or nonexistent. My wife lost interest in it years ago. She said we had a good relationship without it and that her friends did not want sex with their husbands either.  It was only after I quit approaching  her sexually that she became concerned enough to occasionally want it again. By then it was too late. I had entered “the hobby”, she had become obese, and I was no longer capable of responding to her. I am, therefore, in a totally sexless marriage. I fear you must end this relationship. You may experience many years of frustration and disappointment if you don’t.    

don't ever live in the same space/place. Have a room of one's own. EOM

Lady A

Better to hide the toys?

Insight, Insight, Insight.  

AA

to say. Time apart is important. You go crazy for each other when there is time apart. 26 years with my smart, crazy, really beautiful, slightly off his rocker Boston Italian/Scott. I knew I had to have my own house. It just gets crazy with the fights.  (Verbal) I stand up for me self! But most of us (appear) to have PTSD from war, parents war, etc etc. Always because of War. There is Love and Passion Because. I have MY. OWN. SPACE.

PS Both Catholics might help. Peanut Butter/Jelly

LIght and love Lady AA

It's even supported by the Talmud.

 
My wife and I live 1500 miles apart, and love each other more than ever.