A friend of mine saw this provider regularly. One day, she had an incall where the doors were located outside instead of inside. She tells him where to park so she knows he's there. So, he parks his car in front of her door. He tells me, she never DFK me before, or with any other client. However, after she saw his car, her attitude and perception changed despite the number of times he's seen her. She definitely allowed him to DFK that day, and added a few other extra services, and it continued after that day. Shouldn't a provider determine if a client is able to see her 5 or 6 times a month, shouldn't that be enough to justify his financial status? Possible because he doesn't like to dress up most of the times when he visits her and likes to dress up comfortably?
Another example, he has also been seeing a few other regulars. On one occasion, he decided to do an outcall. She comes to his house, and her perception, attitude, and behavior changed, which made the session even better. Despite the amount of times he's seen her, this time was exceptional and extraordinary.
I'm just making an observation from the testimony of a friend. This also applies outside the hobbying environment. For example, I eat out sometimes, and sometimes I wonder to myself, WTF is this hot young blonde doing with this old fat bald headed ugoly ass looking geezer. Then it hits me, she must be with him for the financial security and lifestyle. A persons financial status can influence their sexual experience. This is something I've come to accept. I'm just stating this from a personal experience of a friend. That is, providers will give you other services they don't normally give to other guys, and their performance changed for the better. Do you agree or do you disagree?
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 2:54:22 PM
I provide. The millionaire does not get more than the Pizza Boy, if they are paying the SAME rate. Quite frankly, richer guys are the very last ones to freaking tip, and daty so why the hell would I offer extra to get less? I will stick with my sweet county boys who know how to treat a lady, go down on me til I squirm, and actually don't think so highly of themselves that I should be in awe of them regardless of how much hair they have on their balls.
That's another common misconception about having money...some of the worst hygiene cases have been with guys who could actually pay to have someone else wipe their ass lol! My ex is a prime example. Tons of money, major player in the corporate world, yet cllueless about what a woman wants in bed, and did not shave his shit til he met me! I would never offer more services to someone just because of how much money they have...would offer it because of how much they PAID!
Another example, he has also been seeing a few other regulars. On one occasion, he decided to do an outcall. She comes to his house, and her perception, attitude, and behavior changed, which made the session even better. Despite the amount of times he's seen her, this time was exceptional and extraordinary.
I'm just making an observation from the testimony of a friend. This also applies outside the hobbying environment. For example, I eat out sometimes, and sometimes I wonder to myself, WTF is this hot young blonde doing with this old fat bald headed ugoly ass looking geezer. Then it hits me, she must be with him for the financial security and lifestyle. A persons financial status can influence their sexual experience. This is something I've come to accept. I'm just stating this from a personal experience of a friend. That is, providers will give you other services they don't normally give to other guys, and their performance changed for the better. Do you agree or do you disagree?
You are brutally honest. Very refreshing.
Swim
It is also why many folks don't like her.
There is not much "in between" with his one. 
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 7:52:24 PM
A lot of "good", inbetween. IMHO
That's another common misconception about having money...some of the worst hygiene cases have been with guys who could actually pay to have someone else wipe their ass lol! My ex is a prime example. Tons of money, major player in the corporate world, yet cllueless about what a woman wants in bed, and did not shave his shit til he met me! I would never offer more services to someone just because of how much money they have...would offer it because of how much they PAID!
Another example, he has also been seeing a few other regulars. On one occasion, he decided to do an outcall. She comes to his house, and her perception, attitude, and behavior changed, which made the session even better. Despite the amount of times he's seen her, this time was exceptional and extraordinary.
I'm just making an observation from the testimony of a friend. This also applies outside the hobbying environment. For example, I eat out sometimes, and sometimes I wonder to myself, WTF is this hot young blonde doing with this old fat bald headed ugoly ass looking geezer. Then it hits me, she must be with him for the financial security and lifestyle. A persons financial status can influence their sexual experience. This is something I've come to accept. I'm just stating this from a personal experience of a friend. That is, providers will give you other services they don't normally give to other guys, and their performance changed for the better. Do you agree or do you disagree?
I treat my guys based on how they treat me and if they are clean and polite and I am better to guys that come back to see me! Sometimes the really rich guys act like they are doing me the favor, but some like my down to earth ways. They guys who had to save to see me seem to appreciate me the most!
Everyone is capable of writing a review, and everyone is capable of finding another provider, so no, the experience should be the same regardless of money. But, some people are just like that, and that should tell him something about her as a person.
American Express Gold (or is it Platinum) card.
And always bring my Enron and WorldCom stock certificates.
Then they know I'm not just a kiss ass LOL
If you're rocking an Amex Centurion card, then you know needed to spend/pay for at least $250k a year just to qualify for the card. And the card is by invite only.
So...yeah, sometimes it makes a difference.
Platinum is like the Honda Civics of Amex cards. I should know...I have one.
I'm applying today for my Centurion card.
Does it have the 5% cash back?
Otherwise, I'll just pay cash LOL
I do not see why a provider would perform better because she saw what type of car a gent is driving or his house.
Who knows whose car that is could be a rental,borrowed,etc that makes no sense to me.
The service I provide is what I provide regardless if it is a blue collar worker or a fortune 500 corporate executive.In the case of your friend's situation if she had seen him more than one time and all of a sudden she saw his car and now more services are offered with a better attitude.I agree if a gent is able to see you on a consistent basis his financial status is already proven whether he is driving a mercedes or a F-150 pick-up.
Now,in a civilian life I can see some women thinking that what type of car,home,or profession might be the deciding factor if she is interested in a guy or not.The thing is when you put a lot of thinking into what someone else has you might be in store for a disappointment.
I have met people who are very well off and successful in their profession but their attitude stinks!
I have a friend she will only date guys who can financially spend a lot on her I asked why she said it is a status thing.Okay,whatever but she is always complaining about how much BS she has to deal with some of these guys.There is a nice guy who has a stable job been interested in her for years she will not even give him the time of the day all because of the job he has and the car he drives.
I could care less about what a person drives or what type of home he has I am concentrated on my own stuff.
Lover her for her looks or hate her for her sassy attitude, she doesn't pull any punches.
I just back from a wonderful time with a provider. She gave me half off and went 1/2 hour longer than scheduled. She mentioned as I was leaving that I'm one of her favorites and she offered me a cut rate because she knew my business was struggling (and to make up for a late cancel) so being nice and treating them with respect can a long way it seems.
Hi McD,
I barely make minimum wage, I'm ugly, but I have one thing going for me!! I always treat the ladies w/respect! They treat me the same way as people who have money & look like Brad Pitt & treat the ladies as I do!
Another example, he has also been seeing a few other regulars. On one occasion, he decided to do an outcall. She comes to his house, and her perception, attitude, and behavior changed, which made the session even better. Despite the amount of times he's seen her, this time was exceptional and extraordinary.
I'm just making an observation from the testimony of a friend. This also applies outside the hobbying environment. For example, I eat out sometimes, and sometimes I wonder to myself, WTF is this hot young blonde doing with this old fat bald headed ugoly ass looking geezer. Then it hits me, she must be with him for the financial security and lifestyle. A persons financial status can influence their sexual experience. This is something I've come to accept. I'm just stating this from a personal experience of a friend. That is, providers will give you other services they don't normally give to other guys, and their performance changed for the better. Do you agree or do you disagree?
One of my cousin's bartender is a dirt poor guy that easily gets laid every weekend by many hot women. He has no money to offer these girls.
However, he is smooth as ice, looks like a rebel rockstar with his long hair in a poney-tail and is known to have a big dick. In some very basic ways, this is what every woman wants if money is not involved.
He is also known to be a deadbeat dad. However, this just promotes his bad boy image to the women.
In my experience, man women prefer the bad boy over money until their looks begin to fade and it's time to get married. My coworker physically detests her husband in every way (fat, small penis, dorky) since she always dated rocker boys. She only married him to have a "steady partner" that she takes for granted every day.
In short, loser rocker bad boys will always get more sex from women that are genuinely interested in them over guys with money. Sorry, this is the truth!
you just stated lol. Bravo! Of course, that is in real life not p4p for most providers. I don't care how hot a guy is, I am not doing him for free. He is going to have to give me something of value other than his good looks. I would also never date a guy who was a deadbeat dad or deadbeat anything, but I did when I was younger. A guy has to have some game to keep my attention for very long. If he is all up my ass and clingy, the less I am attracted to him. The more he resists, the more I want him. Yea, it's a sick game.
Just take a drive out to Greenwich, CT, the hedge fund capital of the world. See how many guys you see who are plain or geeky with ridiculously hot women.
A guy who pulls up in a 150k car is gonna get more attention and love than a guy who pulls up in a 50k car...as a rule.
Are there exceptions? Sure, there are. I won't be one of those jackasses who uses absolutes. But does it GENERALLY make a difference? Yes.
The donation I ask for gets a guy in the door and allows him certain services. It does not matter if he makes 10 dollars an hour or 2 million a year. If he is only paying for an hour, he gets a freaking hour. In the real world, having more than the next is simply for status quo...has never impressed me when real feelings are involved.
My first two husbands never made as much money as I did, and it did not bother me at all. Same goes for the hooker world. I have been with all classes of people, and the ones with more money were never given any special favors "just because" they had money. If they are not giving it to me by hiring me for an overnight, wtf do I care? My rate is still my rate, regardless of who is paying it.
You're not answering his question anyway. He asked if "knowing a guy made a lot of money got him more services here," and the answer is no...not unless the provider thinks she can score MORE of it lol. I would not let a guy fk me in the azz just because he was rich...he would still pay the 200 extra to do it, and he better be small as fk too!
The OP is not about will money buy you more providers, higher end providers, or more time with providers...it's about simply giving favors to a guy who "has" money, and not necessarily getting it.
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 9:37:01 PM
Just saying that it DOES seem to matter as a rule. Look, I can tell you that when my income went from the low/mid six figures to the high six figures, I definitely got more attention, simply because I had all the things that showed I had more money.
Now, in NYC, we don't generally have cars, but the fact that I had a bigger apartment, or I had a Rolex Daytona instead of just a regular Submariner that every other finance guy had, or whatever...all those things made a difference.
Every girl reacts differently, and in NO WAY would I ever say that what I experienced is the NORM or the RULE. And no fucking way can I speak for any women. I can only tell you what I know from my own experiences and those of my friends.
You can only speak for yourself, LR. I can tell you that IN NYC, "knowing a guy made a lot of money DEFINITELY got him more services," but perhaps moreso in the civvie world than in this world.
but they don't do it "just because a guy has money" if they are not getting the shit. Yes, in the civie world, people are always granted favor because of a dollar, but not here. What's the point of letting a millionaire fk you for 3 hours if he is only paying you for one? THAT is the point you are missing lol. His "having" money that I am not getting, does me no good so why not give the Pizza guy that same deal since I don't get extra money either way?
We do things AFTER WE ARE PAID, not because OMG Johnny drives a BMW lol. Only the dummy in this story did that, because she has no sense of marketing. I bet that DFK did not even get her an extra bill, so it's simply stupid business to give away extras and freebies and get nothing in return.
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 9:45:56 PM
It's simple: If there is a possibility of something happening, that it is an option. And that option has some value, based on the value of the actual event occurring, and the probability of it occurring. There is value there.
And some providers will get the idea that if the guy has boatloads of money, MAYBE he will somehow share more of it with her. And for that OPTION value, girls will do more.
I can't speak for you, but I have seen it happen. The most common one is that because a guy lives in a place that costs $5000/month for a one-bedroom place, he has the ability and PERHAPS the desire to see her more often. So maybe she gives more time. Or she allows something she normally wouldn't. She realizes there is OPTION value.
That's your take on things. I'm telling you that I have seen it happen the other way.
That is something a sugar baby would do, not a professional hooker. Then again, stupid is stupid so I can see how some would be that naive to go throwing up the goods and getting nothing for it. If I wanted to roll those dice, I would be on sugardaddy.com not TER. I am paid FOR what I do, not for what you "might" give me. The girl in the OP did not even know how much money this dude had..just saw his car lol. I know dozens of people who lease not own, a nice car and live in the trailer park. Brilliant hooktards.
If every time I give my experience you have to invalidate it, then what's the point of discussing anything with you?
I never invalidated your arguments...only shared mine.
Getting nothing? Again, you're missing the concept of option value. I shouldn't expect you or anyone else to get it, though. If you are all about cash now, then that's your business model, and it's working.
But other HOOKERS have business models, and sometimes a little bit of optionality is something that they use to leverage into a nice franchise.
except for what they tell you...which is always true of course. Look up the definition of hooker then that of a sugar baby, and the latter is what YOU are describing. Option value is of no significance. You're basically saying "hey baby I will gladly pay you for a Big Mac tomorrow if I can have the fries today." Um yea, lemme know how that goes lol.
I am not saying there are not gold digging hookers out there, but it makes zero business sense to give away the fkin milk before the guy buys the cow! So, I can believe you probably know women who do this, but you might want to give them some business classes in hooking, because that has FAIL all over it. If it was that easy, we would all be fkin the week before you guys pay us...right.
It is impossible to have any discussion with you without fighting. You are always correct.
I give up.
This is P4P...period.
Any schmuck who thinks that driving some fucking car, or wearing some bracelet or watch is going to mean shit...is delusional.
The ladies I have known simply only care what Johnnie is going to spend on her...NOW. And if he wants to do it again tomorrow...great. But to think that telling Susie Hooker he's a gazillionaire is going to mean anything...whatever LOL
We've seen here too many pretenders. Guys babbling nonsense of how much they make. And claims of how many hookers they fuck (well...GaG is an exception LOL). But unless he is paying one gal...a shit load of money...well, then I guess you may have a SD/sb deal and she's off the market LOL
Honestly, many of the guys I've befriended here do extremely well financially. But the common theme amongst many of them is to keep their traps shut on anything related to their financial position.
But that's just my opinion. Obviously others think that flash is important LOL
Like most of us give a crap about what you made last year, when you only booked an hour and did not even spring for dinner lol. Nope...does not matter at all. If I were your GF or SB, it might ha ha.
spring for dinner.
And drinks.
But I left the Rolls in the garage....I know how disappointed you were LOL
YOU might not offer something extra for the possibility of getting more money in the future, it might not even be a common practice amongst providers, but to think it doesn't happen more often then just occasionally is fairly naive.
If a guy reads a lady's reviews and she never offers DFK or BBBJ, and he suddenly gets it, he will probably assume he is "special" in some way. He then schedules more often with the lady or for longer dates, and she makes more money. I actually think this is a fairly common occurence ... I believe this is a prime reason for OTC and/or BBFS usually. If you know the guy has lots of money, it's easier to milk it from him. No reason to offer those extras to a guy who has nothing more to give. On the other hand, if her extra "services" don't lead to something more for her. I would be willing to bet those services either disappear, or the guy's emails and phonecalls suddenly stop getting answered.
It does not happen often, but yes it happens. You also have to consider what type of providers are being so risky. Risk vs. Reward says it all for me, and if a provider wants to remain low volume with maximum income, she is not serving her shit up for free in the hopes that it "might" turn into more money.
If that is the case, she moves to being more of a SB than a provider, which was what I said to begin with. BBBJ does not take any more effort than cbj...in fact, in is less effort. And you're wrong on the "not being able to get any more from the guy with less money"...I get the biggest tips and repeats from guys who are making less than 70k a year. These are MARRIED men with limited play time, so even if there was a chance to get more I am not waiting around for it and most providers won't either.
You are talking about turning an escort client into more of a SD type client, and I said I agree with that, but that is not how the typical hourly escort operates. For women seeking LTRs...of course they are willing to do it, but we are not talking about that. We are talking about a girl who simply saw a guy with a nice car and kissed him...he could work at freaking Dominos for all she knows and NEVER see her again. Good thing, she did not let him cream pie lol.
First, you admit to the fact that it happens ... and that was the whole point. Also, ladies such as yourself make up a tiny population of the escorts out there. What YOU choose to do is irrelevant.
Second, nobody mentioned giving it up for free. Only "extra" services being offered. Effort for BBBJ vs CBJ was not mentioned, nor is it relevant. What I did mention is some ladies don't offer BBBJ or DFK (just 2 examples), and that a guy will think he is "special" if he gets it during his paid session.
Third, if a guy is married and makes less then 70k a year is irrelevant. If he tipped you or bought you a gift, then he obviously had the money to do so. I never said millionaires tip more. I said there is no use in trying to milk money from someone who can't afford more.
Fourth, SB vs escort. Who gives a fuck??? One I give money to and she pays her rent with it. The other, I pay her rent for her. Big deal ... they are both hookers to me in the end. Anyway, I am referring to hourly escorts. There are tons of women out there in the world who treat men better because they have lots of money. A fact I hope you surely will not deny. It would be foolish to think that same percentage of WOMEN ESCORTS don't do the same.
Lastly, a guy with a nice car who works at Domino's is irrelevant. What is relevant is the illusion that the guy has money (whether he actually does or not) and therefore the woman treated him differently.
This kind of reminds me of the chicken vs the egg debate. Did the escort start offering me extras and OTC because I started seeing her more, or did I start seeing her more because she offered me extras and OTC??? Meh ... fuck it. Long day ... time to get my crown and coke on!!!
And pour yourself a double, because this conversation can go on forever. The pros that are too busy providing and don't have time to get on the boards and do this verbal sparring may very well be the ones who don't fit into whatever LR's definition of "hooker" is. It's funny to me that if it doesn't fit her definition, then the girl is a sugar baby. Okay...where do we find these definitions? As far as I see, LR has her definition, and that's just for HER and her disciples and yes-men and yes-women on this board.
I'll also say that LR doesn't understand what "option value" means. I tried explaining it and I could continuing trying to explain it, but it's pointless. It really is. LR looks at is as giving something away for free, and not getting paid. Others like the girls I have seen (and who are too busy to spend time posting on these boards) will tell you that they get paid the same, but going just a little farther or being just a LITTLE more accommodating is something they will consider doing in order to get more business out of the guy. It's building franchise value instead of charging for every last fucking thing.
But you know what? LR's business plan works, and no one is gonna say otherwise. The crazy thing is that she thinks that if it doesn't fall into her platform...then she must be something other than a hooker. I would name names, but I don't think those girls want to get into it.
HC...your points were right on target and your examples were perfect.
Like I said, man...pour yourself a double. Happy to discuss it more with you, but I ain't mixing it up with LR and her cronies on this topic anymore.
for twice the amount of time they are getting paid for bwahahaha. Yea, that sounds really appealing honey. What you missed, is hookers that don't "need your money" don't have to work around the clock, because they have other means of income..just damn. We are also the same hookers who won't have an ass or vagina that looks like it's been running for 90 thousand miles on a 20 thousand count...ha. You are clueless about how this business works! Your obvious obsession with your atf and her supposed "love for only you" has proven that long ago. Your "need to have every provider really enjoy being with you", also hammers it home.
You sound like more of a love sick puppy than a hobbyist, so I can see why you are so confused. You seek arrangements with women, where other guys just come in, pay, fk, and leave us the hell alone til they want to fk again. That is a hooker and a hobbyist to me. I don't spend countless hours emailing my clients or calling them on the phone because UMMM THEY are married lol. Thank goodness they are not deluded and looking for love here, or I really would be broke.
-- Modified on 8/21/2012 8:06:29 PM
Seems like some days you're a hooker and other days you're acting like a so-called sugar baby.
ROTFLMAO.
You would think being the TOP poster here would have proven that. Honey please, if I did not have "something" else going on the side, we all know my ass would never make it as a hooker full-time lol.
ROTFLMAO.
Point being...why is it that a girl who does things like spend time OTC after or before a session suddenly a sugar baby and not a hooker, but when YOU do that, it's still you being a hooker.
Like I said, selective reasoning.
... because you seem to be harboring some animosity. I LOVE London. I would much rather spend time with a woman who has an opinion and speaks up, whether I agree with it or not. Who really respects a "yes" man anyway?
Yes, she totally distorts most topics she likes to argue into some tangent that has nothing to do with the OP, but at least she has a voice.
I just spent enough for a fucking cab to buy a nice 2 hour session to watch the Rays blow another game. I can't argue right now, too drunk!!!
London ... I'm still waiting for that visit. I think you're going to make me spring for a "travel fee" and I'd hate to throw away my balls so easily.
"Your entire case is a fkin illusion" lol. No travel fee babe...I actually WANT to visit your part of the world. I am gonna whip your ass into shape with my debate skills, then we can fk after you piss me off! crazyshit has me horny as hell, and lawn boy is on his way bwahahahaha.
It's a heated discussion at times, but it's a fuck board. And I don't know you or LR, and so why should I get worked up over anything? Same goes the other way.
LR is fine in my book. I know she is smart and intelligent. It's just hard to discuss things with her when she goes off on a rant instead of calmly and directly speaks to the issues. I am happy to talk, debate, and discuss issues with her and everyone else. It's when it degenerates into insults and name-calling that I just realize it's time to walk away.
Like I said, I harbor no animosity. It does become painful to read through all the ranting, though.
Women "like me" are the majority of escorts...look around! Most escorts, NOT SUGAR BABIES charge by the hour or two, advertise on the internet, and are paid BEFORE a date at that time. That is the majority and the average...can't dispute that. What you and crazyass here are talking about IS NOT THE TYPICAL ESCORT! You are once again comparing apples to oranges, and I agreed that women looking for long term arrangements will do this...they are rarely the same escorts you see on the damn internet. What is wrong with some of your brains today that you can't get wtf I am saying.
The average escort nationally makes 300 per hour, and that is taking into account the 2k girls and the 30 dollor truck stop ones. On average, escorts also operate a certain way, and it's not this way. Fact is, you nor crazy are hookers so you are simply guessing. You have NOT provided one piece of actual proof either...the 80 percent of women in this thread calling bs on your ass is mine lol. You are also not pimps who would really know about our transactions and what we do, so all you know is what a few hookers have told you. I know..you bought it lol.
They are a very SMALL percentage, which is why I said it does not happen often. A mistress and a sugar baby are not escorts so they operate under a different mentality. Once again, please have your examples post because the "majority" of escorts in this thread have said it's bs. All the proof I need..thanks. Now, blow me.
There are two distinct issues we are talking about here:
ISSUE 1: Whether my ATF is a provider or a sugar baby.
My ATF is a provider. She has rates for the hour, as well as those for two hours, three hours, etc. She gets a lot of overnight calls. She is not a sugar baby, but I know you really want her to be, because you have these insanely strict definitions.
So let's get that straight. The ATF is a provider. She chooses to do things with me that she doesn't do with others, most of which s encapsulated in the fact that she spends a lot of time OTC with me--many times for free. She just left here right now, this am, and went back to her place, after we hung out and fucked. Guess what? She's an escort. She charges other guys an hourly rate. She has a website. She has been reviewed, but not by me. She is paid BEFORE her date. She has a multi-night client who pays her MONTHS in advance for sessions. She is an escort.
That's what I keep trying to explain to you.
And you have admitted YOU, LR, spend time OTC with certain clients. And these are clients that you like, right? You give them OTC time, you spend time having dinner with them, or whatever. And these are clients, and you are a hooker. Same goes for my ATF and me. There is no difference, and you can't tell me that you are a hooker, and she is a sugar baby. Tell where the difference is here.
ISSUE 2: Whether hookers treat guys with wealth differently than they do other clients who pay the same rate
Of course, we can argue this one to death, but you can speak only for yourself, and I can only speak from my experiences. You no more easily know whether you are getting the truth than I do. We are both going by hearsay when it comes to other hookers. Now, you can speak for yourself, and no one is going to refute that. But when you start to speak for other hookers...that's laughable. Speak for yourself.
Now, on the issue of whether hookers treat guys with money differently than other guys paying the same rate to see them...I said it does make a difference, but I didn't say with how many hookers. I can only go by my experience, and I have seen how hookers treat me differently in the past when I show up in a nice car (when I was living in another state and had one) or when there is other evidence of my wealth.
Does this mean that every hooker is like that? No. But it is happens.
Now...on the bigger issue of option value, you keep misunderstanding it. It doesn't refer to you giving a session away for free. No one said that but you. It refers to a provider giving a little extra to someone because that might build some loyalty, much as a frequent flyer program does. You might not practice it, but others do.
You mentioned 80% of women in this thread are calling BS on my ass. Let's do a count, and see this, because you just quoted 80%. How many women responded, and how may women are calling BS on me? Careful about quoting percentages if your math is wrong...I work in finance for a living, and your math skills are suspect at best.
are going to get SAME treatment from an escort and very different from civvie.
Amazing that women who are PAID give less shit about what guy has/makes than those who are supposed to love you for who you are
Lina
what the fuck happened?
Lina
I only make a 5 figure income, but, the last two BJ's ( from a provider ) made me feel like a Millionaire.....lol.
telling you this is not how things are done, yet you still want to try and argue about shit you have no knowledge of other than HERESAY! You're not a damn hooker! You only know what hookers tell you unless you are in the damn bed with them and their clients, OR doing their taxes! Oh wait, that's right..what they tell you is always 100 percent the truth bwahahaha I forgot..my bad.
Why should I question you?
Once again, you win.
I've had a long day...too tired for this shit.
Yesterday it was saturn speaking for everyone, and now it's us. You simply can't stand the fact that your bs is just that...bs, and I got nothing but love for you but give it a fkin rest! You never have any PROOF of the things you say..just what "you heard." That is not the way this fkin business is run honey. We might give favors for reviews at times, but THAT MAKES US MORE...what? MONEY! I don't know ANY smart provider who would do a guy for free in the hopes of him giving her a shitload of money later..that is a sugarbaby, a wanna be trophy wife, or an all out moron.
You have just about EVERY provider in this thread saying that's not how things work, and you still want to argue with a straw man! It's in your head! There is no "option value" unless a hooker wants to get into an LTR or become a SB. So yes, that I can agree with you about. It happens, but it's not common and far from the norm. If a provider has no intention of "scoring" a dude, there is never a reason his funds will matter here if she is not getting any of them.
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 10:22:38 PM
and your sample of providers are just the ones on this board or the other three thousand you know?
a generality used to explain another? hmmm
You have just about EVERY provider in this thread saying that's not how things work, and you still want to argue with a straw man! It's in your head! There is no "option value" unless a hooker wants to get into an LTR or become a SB. So yes, that I can agree with you about. It happens, but it's not common and far from the norm. If a provider has no intention of "scoring" a dude, there is never a reason his funds will matter here if she is not getting any of them.
-- Modified on 8/20/2012 10:22:38 PM
and have met providers from every city from here to Cali. I don't really need a sample when I have a dictionary and can easily find definitions for a hooker and a sugar baby. Try it yourself and see. I am not saying this NEVER happens, but it is far from the norm of how women operate in this business. The fact that 90 percent of providers charge by the damn hour vs. the month confirms it. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. If we were all here looking for sugar daddies and option value, then why are we STILL here charging by the hour or two at a time? Um..yea.
-- Modified on 8/21/2012 10:39:39 AM
about it and go after dudes with flashy cars/homes etc HOPING they can take him for what he has.
PROFESSIONALS know better.
you the rest next week girl." Option Value my ass. If I had a dime for every dude who said he would "pay more later" if I did x, y, and z now, hell I would be rich! That is just all around stupid, and I don't know ANY woman who has any kind of intellect that would trust a guy she has never met, to give her a freaking IOU lol. Well..maybe if she had the means to blackmail him ha ha, but if that were the case she would not still be a hooker. She would be in Costa Rica living the good life on his dime.
Is being in the company of such idiots. I call it a win win. They scratch us of their little to do lists and we celebrate that we don't have to deal with their high maintenance whiny asses.
They give us examples of all "good" providers who see them for free. Then when we say that how much money a guy has is absolutely irrelevant, they foam just as much saying that money matters more than anything else and that "smart" providers should give freebies to those who have lots of it.
SMH
But I've seen plenty of women in NYC, and all of them will tell you I treat them with respect and that I don't nickel and dime them.
You know me from a few board posts. You can judge me on that. Unlike you, I have been screened, I have seen providers, and I have written a ton of reviews under this very alias. You can feel free to PM any of those women, though honestly I think the reaction will be, "Why do you really give a fuck? Get a life."
VERY well, because if they don't get off you won't even see them again lol. Good enough for me...at least you try to make the girl feel good during that time. Hmmm...option value eh? Like if you get me off, I should give you a discount in the future? I won't say whether I have or have not done this...just speaking hypothetically.
So is she not a hooker and now a sugar baby? Or are you?
Or is it just that maybe hookers aren't all about the money all the time?
Dear Ms. Rayne:
For arguments sake lets just say that you assess your Vagina at the price of gold. With that said, take something the have of value like a good watch or an expensive piece of Jewelry. See if it is worth say over 500 dollars or so. Then when they ask you that question again regarding your precious cunnilingus, hold on to the watch or the wedding ring if it is worth that much and then give them a certain amount of time to come up with the actually currency. At this point, you have mastered game and recognized game. Now you are Rayne Federal first savings and loan, and you can protect your self for when they default on the loan. I know that to be the outspoken and cerebral ho that you are you have been having game forever now you can really tell your time honored johns what time it is.
If everyone of us went around banging guys "just because we might" get their money "one day" lol, when would we have the time to make money from the ones holding the envelope at the time of the date? It simply makes zero sense business wise. I don't know even ONE provider who does this, not saying there are none of course. I have seen providers hop on a plane and pay their own expenses to go see a guy they know nothing about...again, makes zero sense not to cover your ass. These same women are left standing at the airport holding their bags whilst the jokers are laughing their asses of at how fast they jumped.
So yea, some women will jump at any chance to make a buck, but women with common sense know better. If Joe Millionaire wants to see me, he will pay at the time of the date OR we will work out some sort of SD type deal. The latter then moves me from hooker to SB status thus proving my point. If I am in an agreement with a guy for hopes of future payment guess what...I am still NOT stupid enough to let him pay me AFTER!
Each and every SD deal I have ever entertained was with the agreement that the FULL payment was upfront, or he could go back to paying by the hour. So, in a sense I do offer discounted arrangements, but I am not naive enough to fk the guy for 2 weeks and let him pay me after...yea right.
Option value does not refer to giving it away for free.
The guy still pays your full rate. The only difference is that you treat one guy differently and give him maybe a little more than the other guy because there is something about him that you like. That could be his personality, his scent, his manners...or the car he drove in with, or the watch he wears, or the fact that everything about him screams money. In the end, you LIKE this guy more for whatever reason (here, money is the incidental example--it could be anything else).
Because you like him more, maybe you allow him to do something that you normally wouldn't. Say you prefer to get fucked instead of getting licked, and the guy wants to lick more. Or say you really don't like lots of DFK-ing, and the guy loves it. But you decide that you will be flexible here. Why? Because by giving up something here and being flexible (the cost of the option), you might actually get more business (the option itself).
Notice I NEVER said you got paid later. You simply did something nicer to this guy with the notion that there might be a payoff in the future.
Simple as that.
If you can't understand this, then there is nothing else to say.
What you are describing is YMMV or ATF factor.
I have several patrons who due to their personality and to the way they treat me get "red carpet" treatment. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with their income or how much money I could earn in the future.
The way I see this, if you are clean, safe, respectful gent, you get same great level of service as the next guy. However, if in addition to all that I actually LIKE you as a person, then you are most likely to get personal communication, priority booking, gift for your birthday, etc. I may even send you email asking if you want to join me for play/movie as a friend. You never have to bother with deposits for extended dates, I will rearrange my personal plans to see you if you are in town, I will hop on the plane to see you anywhere at a day's notice. In other words, you are ATF.
All that said, this has nothing to do with how much money you make or what kind of car you have. There is no "option value", no hidden agenda, no financial incentive here.
Lina
Seems to me that you are just using a term to describe everything my ATF does for me.
I mean, not everything is about the money, which both you and LR have now explicitly proven.
OP brought up question about the effect client's financial status has on service said client would get from escorts. Answer - for absolute majority of ESCORTS it has zero effect.
Why? escorts are paid for TIME. They have no time to invest into some dude just because he is rich and may give them money in some uncertain future. We spend X amount with a client and get paid our rate for that time.
We do not expect anything more from said client. We may see him every day or once in entire life.
On occasion we like someone as a person enough to offer preferential treatment as far as scheduling etc is concerned, but he still pays for the time he books. NO expectations. No exclusivity. No freebies in hopes of getting more money later.
Sugar babies on another hand cultivate their mark. They invest their time based on evaluation of potential mark's financial well being hoping to take him for as much as possible with least possible effort. More times than not the joke is on them they get assurances of eternal love and diamonds from same store that sells kittie litter while their SD is fucking everything that moves.
Gold diggers. Sugar babies aiming at taking 50 percent once they divorce you.
This business IS about money, but about money actually PAID not money that you have in the bank. Unlike SBs and GDs, escorts only care about what you are paying now not what you may potentially pay in the future. Hence the model of your car, brand of your watch and size of your home do not matter one iota.
May seem like paradox, but while this is all about money, money does not matter. Welcome to Female Logic 101 ))
In all seriousness, thanks for taking the time to speak about this intelligently and coherently, instead of a rant accusing everyone else. So thanks upfront.
I agree with you that for many escorts, financial status probably has zero status. I don't know about MOST, but maybe you do. I know a lot of escorts, especially in the NYC region, as I have seen many and keep in touch with many of them. I don't think everyone would agree with you, but you do make a very good point.
I do agree that escorts are about money NOW. But ask any escort whether she cares about building a repeat clientele, and you will hear from many, if not most, that they in fact want repeats. Every escort I know would rather see the same guys over and over than have to hustle/advertise/market for new ones. I think we can generally agree on this.
With that in mind, an escort will sometimes do something in order to cultivate loyalty. That might mean time OTC, or a BBBJ to CIM instead of just a BBBJ. Or maybe it's swallowing versus spitting.
And what drives this? Could be the fact the provider likes a guy for his manners, his good looks, his net worth, his car, etc. It could be nearly ANYTHING, and, yes, I believe that financial success/status falls into that. Does that mean that said escort is trying to set up the guy to suck him 50% dry? No, not at all. It just means that the FINANCIAL STATUS aspect COULD be one reason.
And given that escorts want repeat clientele, it makes sense that a client with some serious financial means could very well want to cultivate clientele that meets this criteria. That's it.
On the issue of extras...we all know that many providers offer these bonus perks. Why? Well, if hookers are all about money, then it goes to reason that the bonus perks are given because they want to keep the clientele. If that means clientele book with them in the future as opposed to other girls, is that not option value? The client could choose to go elsewhere, but if you do something nice for him, he is incentivized to repeat. That's option value.
Now...on the topic of one particularly outspoken provider here, she has said that she gives OTC time, and extra perks to certain clients. You have said that you do, as well.
Why do you do this? Simply because you like him? Yes, according to both of you.
So why is it that my ATF can do the same thing for me, but that is perceived differently? Now she is a sugar baby, and not a provider.
Makes no sense.
Hope this is clear. If this degenerates into another rant by so-and-so, I'm saying nothing more, because this can go on forever, and she always has to have the last word.
So she can have it.
That reminds me...saw something on a friend's Twitter feed, which seems to apply here:
"Do as I say, because you can't do as I do."
Priceless.
Lemme see if I can answer it in detail your post deserves.
"I do agree that escorts are about money NOW. But ask any escort whether she cares about building a repeat clientele, and you will hear from many, if not most, that they in fact want repeats. Every escort I know would rather see the same guys over and over than have to hustle/advertise/market for new ones. I think we can generally agree on this."
Yes, I care very much about building repeat clientele. This is a business and ask any business owner about something called "acquisition costs". Smart businesses aim at 80 percent clientele retention. I know I do.
"With that in mind, an escort will sometimes do something in order to cultivate loyalty. That might mean time OTC, or a BBBJ to CIM instead of just a BBBJ. Or maybe it's swallowing versus spitting."
For some, may be. For me - no. The way I run MY business, if you are polite, clean and a gentleman, everything mentioned (except for OTC) comes as part of the package. During appointment I treat each of my dates as VIP, that's the standard of MY business. And if I have a problem with your hygiene or attitude - I simply won't see you again. Ever. I have a special term for these situations - "not even if i were living under the bridge".
OTC. I've made several friends in this business and I will gladly spend time with them socially without charging for it. Most of them however I never saw and never will see in professional capacity. There is ONE exception to this where i spend a lot of time with someone as a friend and on occasion see him as provider, but at this point I can't remember last time I've seen him as provider. Needless to say when we hang out as friends there is no sex involved and never will be.
"And what drives this? Could be the fact the provider likes a guy for his manners, his good looks, his net worth, his car, etc. It could be nearly ANYTHING, and, yes, I believe that financial success/status falls into that. Does that mean that said escort is trying to set up the guy to suck him 50% dry? No, not at all. It just means that the FINANCIAL STATUS aspect COULD be one reason."
To me only one thing matters in this case - whether or not someone is INTERESTING to me as a personality.
"And given that escorts want repeat clientele, it makes sense that a client with some serious financial means could very well want to cultivate clientele that meets this criteria. That's it."
He could, then he could not. I have nether time nor desire to chase after potential wales. If someone wants to see me often he will.
"On the issue of extras...we all know that many providers offer these bonus perks. Why? Well, if hookers are all about money, then it goes to reason that the bonus perks are given because they want to keep the clientele. If that means clientele book with them in the future as opposed to other girls, is that not option value? The client could choose to go elsewhere, but if you do something nice for him, he is incentivized to repeat. That's option value."
See above. All my gentlemen callers get SAME treatment during appointment. Period. No perks, no exceptions. Now, outside of appointment there is "ATF treatment". If I am spending couple of days a month with someone, you can be sure I am going to remember his birthday, actually be interested in HIS life, offer him emotional support when he needs it and give him a break on multi day rates. But all this my response to his actions.
"So why is it that my ATF can do the same thing for me, but that is perceived differently? Now she is a sugar baby, and not a provider." I have no idea why your ATF does what she does. I would never charge someone 250 per night just because I like them. Aint happening. I may charge a day rate for 2 day appointment if I REALLY like someone and if he's been good loyal customer for long time, but this is as low as it would ever get.
If I were to venture a guess, your ATF is investing her time into cultivating a spouse. Its a gamble on her part which may or may not pay off in the end. If you REALLY want to test this theory, tell her you met great girl and thinking about marriage.
You and I are on the same page about client retention.
I can't speak for how YOU do this, but I think we can agree that there are different approaches to retaining clients, and your approach is your own. Others may use it, but I'm pretty sure you would draw the line at saying, "I do this, or my friends do this," but stop short of speaking for the MAJORITY of hookers. Because that's just insane. Where would this research be published? And with the hundreds of hookers in NYC alone, let alone the US and the world, how could anyone speak with authority on that matter? And yet LR does...which is her style, you know.
On the topic of being OTC...you said:
"OTC. I've made several friends in this business and I will gladly spend time with them socially without charging for it. Most of them however I never saw and never will see in professional capacity. There is ONE exception to this where i spend a lot of time with someone as a friend and on occasion see him as provider, but at this point I can't remember last time I've seen him as provider. Needless to say when we hang out as friends there is no sex involved and never will be."
That's great, but you also said that at least on some exception basis, it does happen. And whether you decided to do this because you wanted to build out your clientele base or retain them, or for some other reason, even you will admit that as a HOOKER, you still offer OTC time. You said "most of them" you never saw in a professional capacity, but of the ones who get OTC time, some of them you have seen.
Having said that, are you a sugar baby now? Because LR would say you are.
On this topic of OTC as an example...I used financial status as an example. I think you can safely say that not every escort cares about this, and in your case you don't. But can you see how some might? And on that topic, I only use financial status as ONE example as to why a provider might go OTC, which I think we can both agree happens.
As far as you chasing after clientele...thanks. In this economy, I get at least one or two random emails or texts every week asking me if I have time to see them. So other providers definitely take a different approach. Is it because I'm a great client? Maybe. Is it because I have money and they know that? Hmmm...maybe.
On the issue of option value...so are you telling me that you never give one client a session different from the ones in your reviews? Could I pick any review and say...let's reenact this one? Because then you have a case.
And even if you don't...I'm not here to criticize YOUR experiences, you know?
You are entitled to a guess as to what the ATF's motivation is, but at least you are very clear here in saying you are "venturing a guess," as opposed to saying..."No, fucktards, this is how hookers think." Your statement is one of a sane, reasonable person.
I'm not interested in testing any theories out. I have fun with her, I pay her, and she spends time with me. It works until it doesn't. And if it never stops working and we settle down in the future, that's fine, too. Life has thrown stranger curveballs at me.
Thank you sincerely for the calm and rational discussion. It's amazing what can happen when you take the insulting out of the posting.
will see you again, IT IS FOR FKIN FREE! Are we supposed to get a contract that says if you fk me in the ass today, you have to promise to bring me an extra bill or see me again next week? You are past deluded, embarking on all out stupid! Get a fkin clue! I and most hourly or bihourly escorts don't give a flying fk about what you "might do for us in the future." Wake the fk up, and realize we are not sugar babies and we are not in a damn marriage.
I care about what you do in the TIME YOU ARE PAYING ME! Hooker 101, after a guy leaves we have no right to know anything about him or wtf he is doing. Geezus... Just because YOU seek out freaking escorts who act like LTR and sugar babies does not mean that is how this shit works. Please, continue to spend six hours for the price of 2 with the girls you see...I won't be wearing myself out for that little, nor will any of my friends lol.
You contradicted yourself AGAIN! You said a million freaking times option value was the expectation of getting something from the guy in the future or building a franchise! Oh, and wtf last I checked we each only came with ONE vagina, so your franchise comment was retarded. NOW, you say it simply means giving favor to one over the other, and nothing to do with money lol. Make up your fkin mind!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here...your own words to your bs theory ha ha. No wonder we don't get it..you don't either mofo!
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=537533&boardID=12&page=1#537533
Ha, a total CONTRADICTION from what you just said in your post above, now stfu and buy HC a beer because he does have some money!
If the latter is now your new definition, then yes...many do that shit all the time. Gosh, you're so full of dog shit it's comical. The original post had to do with a girl giving a guy a favor JUST BECAUSE HE DROVE A NICE CAR! You then came in with your option value bs trying to say that's WHY it was, and that is was about money or repeat clients. Now, you go off the deeper end losing this argument as always, and change up your own shit to say it is simply giving favor for NO MONETARY EXPECTATION? Shocking. You can't debate for shit. Next...
-- Modified on 8/21/2012 8:22:11 PM
Dude she is handing you your ass on a platter by typing it. Are you sure you want the beating she would hand you verbally? Or is it that you dont want the humiliation by having it witnessed by everyone?
My friend bow out and save face.
Call her out on the issues one by one, and you will see her backpedaling and retracting her statements. Or you will see her go apeshit, pulling board politics, WKs, and rank on you because she is pushing a bad position.
Let's stick to the issues, and see if we can discuss things.
If she wants to go all Tasmanian Devil on me (a lotta motion and no real action), then I have no interest in engaging that. I do that shit all day at work with drama queens in finance on the other sides of my trades. I don't need to engage that on a fuck board in what should be a fun hobby and activity.
how this could be anymore fun for me. Please do continue your attempt in this debate, hell I might even send you a restaurant gift card in appreciation.
Now excuse me I think I need to replenish the ole fluids...
Ah...on second thought, no way I'm going to rehash this. It's like saying purple is better than red.
Best thing to do with the LR types is to just walk away. It's like an argument on politics or religion.
Where the fk is Gambler when we need him...you aint seen nothing yet. I will say I am sorry for calling you an idiot though..that was out of character and I don't feel that way about you at all. Other than that..kiss my grits motha fuka! You lose! Lina said the very things I said, only nicer. Sorry, you have to have it sugared up to get it. I told you from jump your atf was feeling more for you than just a client, and you tossed it off. I very well told you the difference between a SB and a hooker, and you still tossed that. You just want to piss me off because you damn well know the guys I aruge with on these boards are my ATF clients when I finally meet them! I gotta go...my grass needs cutting.
-- Modified on 8/22/2012 12:41:24 AM
Look, I have had it out on the boards with other people who love to stir up shit. CCPA is an example.
And we took it offline, and I think he's a very intelligent guy. I see his posts in a totally different light now. But ask him whether I am one of those guys who caves and waffles on my point, and he will tell you that I don't. I have my points, and I stick to them.
I am a reasonable person, and don't need to result to insults to get my point across. If I am wrong, I will admit it right then and there. No use pushing a bad position.
But if someone just turns into a whirling dervish and obfuscates her point (or lack thereof) by flipping out on the board and calling rank because she is the top poster here and because she has some WKs that will come out of the woodwork to defend her...I have zero interest in engaging that.
She can have the bragging rights on a fuck board that she won an argument.
I don't need that on my Wall of Focker...
Instead of you flying off the handle like you have been doing.
State your issues and points clearly, instead of ranting like a total lunatic that I know you are not.
Hurling insults at me is childish. You want to debate? Let's stick to the issues, and leave the snarky board political moves ("where is ____ when you need him?").
I am quite capable of speaking on these issues calmly and matter-of-factly. If that's your objective, we can proceed. If you want to just continue to rant, you can do it all by yourself. I don't play board politics and games, and I don't need to stoop to insults to get a weak position across.
My ATF likes me more than a client? Really? You have no idea who she is, and she was reading this last night as she sat in my bed, just laughing about how you are pushing YOUR views as THE definitions of sugar baby vs. provider. That is YOUR definition, and ironically enough, if you are looking at your actions, you are acting no differently towards certain clients. Yet in your case, you're a hooker. But she is a sugar baby. Why?
Try arguing the point without your board politics and conjuring your friends to help you. Stick to the topics, and we can debate. Or you can rant and go crazy. I couldn't care less, but choose.
Never ever read TER in bed with a woman.
Maybe she was turned on by HIM and thought he was hot! Or maybe he had on her fave cologne or was wearing a suit and that can be a turn on! Just like guys love a skirt and heels! I know if a guy can decorate and the place looks good it is a turn on because women love to decorate and it hits home for us. I have a long time regular and when I finally saw his place it was decorated with stuff I would have picked out for my home and it was spotless, so it was a turn on! For me it was not about the money it was about the person! If he thought it was bout the money he has me very wrong! Maybe it was a comfort thing? I know some people (both sides) are all about the benjamins , but that is not always the case! For me it is about how he treats me!
I will not, either in my personal life and definitely not at work, do anything differently in the hopes that someone else's money MIGHT flow over to me.
What I will do, after being paid is my job, no matter how much is in their bank account or the watch they wear or the car they drive. It is not my watch, my car or my bank account.
It has nothing to do with an option or what might happen.
To address the hot young blonde with the fat old guy...there might very well be a transaction going on ie. hooker on a dinner date or a sugar baby arrangement. If there is no transaction it might simply be an attractive young blonde having a dinner with her dad or uncle.
-- Modified on 8/21/2012 12:32:29 PM