The post was generated because I have heard so much gossip from some providers about why I charge what I charge, and some hobbyists think the cheaper you are the worse you are. Not true.
I agree with you. It's no one's business what we charge. That's the point I'm making. Just because I charge a certain amount for Incall versus Outcall allows me to not have to drive anywhere and be comfortable with my clients. This post had nothing to do with downing top-end providers. In fact, the message is going out to those who think that by some of us lowering our prices it is because we aren't beautiful, don't have nice homes, are desperate. Not the case at all for me. I was only speaking for myself.
I am defending those providers who are still beautiful but some don't think they're top-notched because we don't charge a lot. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way.
Hugs,
Ciara
When a provider is listed at a higher donation than another provider, it does not mean the lower-donation lady is worse in bed, is any less classier, takes more appointments to catch up, etc. It depends on each (individual) lady.
I used to be a $400 to $450 provider when I was with an agency and when I first started as an independent. Yes, when I first started this business I had a body comparable to a 25 year-old at the time. Yes, I still have a body that is lovely. Why did I lower my donation fee? Well, because I could. I also wanted to be fair to everyone and not have to run specials all the time or have some men think they are getting a better deal than someone else. Do I offer extended hours sometimes to regulars? Of course, that's just being polite and using good business sense, as long as they don't start taking me for granted. Believe me when I say that I always have business. Slow? Not me. What's slow? Each lady has her own perception of what is slow. I actually have to turn some friends away because I don't take a lot of clients in a week and especially not in one day. And . . . I do tend to get friends who want to spend two or three hours with me because I truly am a courtesan-type provider. So . . . am I making less money than high-end providers? I doubt it, unless they see clients every day for two hours or more.
I really like what I do but it is only part time for me. I have two other businesses I own and also a retirement I get each month. So . . . do I need the money? Probably not? Am I a taxpaying citizen? You bet your sweet ass. I'm protected.
Is the additional cash flow nice? Of course it is. Does it mean that I'm an older provider who has lost her looks? Of course not. Does this mean that higher-end providers don't want to associate with me because they think I might be trash (chuckle, chuckle)? I've heard that some providers say they won't hang out with low-donation girls because they think they are not up to their level. Oh, please. These people need to get off their high horses. Gossiping and backstabbing are not classy qualities. I'm sorry. Does that mean I don't associate with them because they charge $400 to $500? Heck no! I have a few good friends in this business. One is high-end and one is like me with her donations. They're both intelligent and classy ladies. So, I guess what I'm saying is it's up to the provider what she charges, but lowering or raising your price does not mean you're better or worse. Raising might, however, mean she is providing something that some won't. That's all.
Let's get this straight, okay. Someone with a donation of $260 to $300 an hour does not necessarily mean she is not classy or intelligent. In fact, I have a few degrees, run three businesses (so obviously I'm not an idiot), have a beautiful home, a car that's paid off, a bank account and investments. Do some other providers have these things? Probably some do and probably some foolishly wash their money down the drain on expensive clothes, etc. But that's their right. However, this notion that a high-end provider gives better service, is better looking, is more intelligent and will attract a better clientele base is somewhat hogwash. You cannot buy class!
Yes, I agree that a lot (I say "a lot, not everyone") of clients that spend more money are gracious and not expecting more than what they pay for, and that is refreshing. However, I've had really intelligent, classy men at $260 that treated me just as nicely as someone who dropped $400 for an appointment. I agree that when you drop your donation to under $250 there is a different sort of clientele, but they're not always bad. Also, did you consider from a marketing standpoint that $260 is easier to get out of the bank than $250 or say $310? Also, when a client hears or sees in writing $300, there is an automatic light that goes off in his head that the donation is starting to get a little high. Some may agree or disagree with me, but I think it's a psychological thing. Now . . . if a lady is a great provider and can earn $500 a day with only one client for one hour, then that's great! Go for it! But how many actually say they're busy when they're not? No one will know that for sure.
So . . . can we please stop assuming what is not there. You know the old saying, "When you assume, it makes an a_s out of you and me." That is so true.
Happy hobbying, everyone, and peace to all!
Hugs,
Ciara
-- Modified on 11/23/2007 9:39:59 PM
-- Modified on 11/24/2007 3:58:54 PM
One thing I never do is question a woman's rate. By doing so you are questioning the value that she puts on her self and her time. I tend to hobby in the $250 to $300 an hour zone and have met some truly beautiful and amazing women over the years. I've spent less and had some great times as well but I've and also spent more once or twice and regretted it.
Women have their own criteria for the rates that they charge but ultimately price means nothing if the experience wasn't what we wanted. I'm not going to lie and say that price is not a factor for me but what I read about a lady on her site, in her reviews and even here on the boards is much more important to me that a $50 swing in the rate I will pay to see her.
I am one who does not consider price at all in my decision, but rather my feeling about the lady from reading her reviews, her board posts, and any pre-visit conversations we may have.
Because of this, I've seen ladies from $250 donation to $500 per hour and some who require multi hour to schedule. I never worried or even thought that the lower rate providers would be lower quality and also I didn't have any expectation that the higher rate would be higher "quality"- In all cases, I knew I'd have a great experience because of my research on them. Many of the ones I chose were due to their posts on the board that gave me a clue as to their personalities!
The only difference I've noticed is that the higher hourly rate ones that I've seen either only wanted to see one a day or expected that their higher rate would limit how many they saw a week- just a personal choice on their part.
The bottom line for me is if I see someone I'm interested in, the price has little to do with my decision.
Although I like everyone else probably has a limit as to what I'd pay- I have not had it tested yet because I haven't noticed anyone I want to see that has higher than a $500 donation.
I think as long as the lady is setting a rate that she is comfortable valuing her time at, she'll do fine and the hobbyists that want to see her will!
I am still really new to all this. That being said I wanted to put in my opinion. I have only seen one provider so far, more than once. The first time was a little higher pay scale because that is how she has it set up. If you repeat with her, she then lowers her price a little.
I didn't disagree with what she charged either way, never will. I think she is worth what I paid and will be returning to her again. I think personally the highest I would probably go with a provider is $$$$ for the hour, but I have been thinking that I am really looking for the 2 hour fun in the future.
I don't even look at the money factor first when "scoping" out a provider I might want to spend time with. Of course it comes into the decision, but later in the process.
I don't know and would never ask a lady how many guys does she see in a day, or week. That is none of my business. As long as I am the "only" one she is focused on when I am there, it doesn't matter.
Hobbyists have debated the issue of what higher rates actually mean. I disagree that hobbyists assume that more money = better performance. In fact, I think most hobbyists know it's not true. They're after something else.
Why do some providers feel they can charge $500+ while others charge $200-$300? Of course each provider has her specific set of reasons, but overall I believe they charge based on what they believe their "demand" is. Demand for what? Looks, not performance. An informal look at providers' sites and their rates demonstrates this pattern.
The providers who charge in the $500+ range tend to match a standard of beauty that I don't particularly find appealing but enough men must or they couldn't stay in business. These are "supermodel" types or actual porn stars. They tend to feel that because they are inaccessible to normal guys, they can charge more just for the experience of even being in the same room with them. Are porn stars better performers than other providers? I don't know, but given that the range of physical acts is relatively limited, I can't imagine not being able to find a provider who can do what a porn star can.
I have never paid more than $400 for a provider and I find it hard to believe that someone who charges $800 is 200% better in performance. In fact, there are many beautiful providers still in the $200-$300 range. My ATF is. In fact, she used to charge below $200 and only recently upped her rate. As you stated, these providers are not only attractive but intelligent and highly skilled. Are there really experienced hobbyists out there who haven't figured this out by now?
I found this to be an very interesting thread---the key to what providers charge & what hobbyists are willing to pay for their time are of course, subjective, ("beauty is in the eye of the beholder") & economic ( what the hobbyist is able to afford ).What DOES irritate me is the occasional judgmental qualities of SOME who post here--the hobbying-providing biz is NO place for that. Despite being an atheist,I remember the story of Mary Magdalene, the provider who was Jesus's "friend"---An angry mob was going to stone her to death & in walks Christ with this profound saying: " He who is without sin, cast the 1st stone". Of course, this prompted the chastened mob (ancestors of some who post here ?) to leave in shame.
I never bought the son of God bit, but BOY, was the guy a great philosopher---. Holds as true today as it did 2,000 years ago. What would our bearded friend think if he were alive today & he saw posts by clowns putting down expensive providers & the hobbyists who frequent them, or idiots who post threads putting down BBW's ?
Then again, if he did the resurection bit, I have a hunch he wouldn't be reading TER.
Good thread, Ciara.
Who's really innocent on this board?
that I want to find a lady who will treat me like a king for the hour or two I'm with her. I will read with interest what the lady's posts her on TER (this is how I first "discovered" you), how their web site is done (tasteful is good--too much pizaz is not), what the reviews say about her performance (performance ranks above appearance for me), their "hotness" (obviously I need to be attracted to the lady but she need not be a cover model), and lastly the rate they charge. I am not independently wealthy so I have a limited budget for my recreational pursuits. I stay within this budget so as not to "take away" from my other responsibilities. Be safe.
Ciara, I can only assume something happened to bring on this long post. I've never assumed anything about donation levels as long as they don't go over $400. You're correct and I'd like to emphasize one comment you made - the $300 threshold. It seems to me that more providers are now in the $400 range than $300 lately. But there is that threshold that once crossed, tends to cause most of us to back away. I'm not sure if it's $300 or $400 or something in between but the threshold seems to be rising lately.
Whatever the market will bear I guess...
I've never thought it worth my time to argue about price. So, whatever the lady values her time at, is what I pay, never mind what the time is worth to me.
Some ladies, well there is no price on the feeling that I get after having been in their presence, in other cases, well, I would gladly pay more for the session to end. It has been my fortune to be with ladies who obviously could charge much more than they do, but they don't. They do so for their own reasons, and some have nothing to do with the money.
Do they make me happy? yes. More importantly, I like to think that I make them happy.
and Priapus takes us once again into politics or religion by insulting Christians (yes, I am a Christian. Yes, I am sinning). I don't care if you don't believe in God, please leave out the insults.
While he explains that he's an atheist and as such does not believe that Jesus is God; at the same time he finds value in Jesus' teaching and philosophy. Not sure how that's insulting to Christians.
Though I didn't really care for Priapus's comments (as far as I'm concerned politics and religion belong on the politics and religion board)I honestly can't find anything even remotely insulting about it.
Having nice looks (although stunning is fine too) is only the beginning. Who wants to pay $300 or more for a "10" only to be a lousy date. I'd rather have a nice looking lady who is fun to be with. FYI: I would say you are very fine looking to me.
You go girl!
I became SO mad at channelguy's absurd post that I neglected to read thoughfulls post backing me up---thx, dude.
My views are quite Libertarian---tho an Atheist,
I'm a strong believer that government should take a hands off approach toward how people conduct their private lives & that includes religion & hobbying ! Am a fervent believer in the 1st ammendment.
Channelguy accuses me of insults---this coming from a guy that accuses Bill Clinton of "internal treason".-----LMAO
I've only been posting here a few months but enjoy it greatly---the vast majority here are bright & terrific folks.
THERE is a VERY small minority here that really needs to get a GED---their reading & writing skills need to be strongly worked on. Some think that the U.S. is in decline because of "the dumbing down of America". They may have a point---
there are those who won't drink - first miracle (according to the current bible - turning water into wine).... Christ seldom "hung out" at the local synagogue... rather he was with the "folks" some were pretty bad dudes... (last act of forgiveness - Barabus! 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise' Luke 23:43)
As far as ladies who escort, to my chagrin, there is concern and debate over the woman Mary Magdalene.... but most do not believe that she was indeed an escort - but her relationship with Christ remains debatable while Christ himself was not into "punishing" escorts as was evidenced by the "let he who is without sin...."
yea, this is not the place to debate moral issues.... especially when it comes to escorting. For my $0.02 Ciara was trying to provide us Thick Headed Idiots with some level of insight. We are such dunces at times... In a city where I pride myself on knowing my way around? I am constantly lost.
As I say, there are several ladies who I find to be most fascinating... I am still not sure why any of the provide except that they enjoy the men that they meet this way - as we do tend to self select - just as they do.
My range is $200-$400 (in-call), primarily in Boston and NYC, and Montreal. A few times I went to $500 just to see (and I was horny as hell lol).
I see a girl 40-50 times a year.
In general, if I like someone after the first time, I will repeat without thinking too much about the rate. If it's the first time with someone, then I would rather take my chance at $250 than at $500, all else being equal.
What I have found is that I rarely need to go over $300-$325 (a lttle more in NYC, a lot less in Montreal) to have a great time. My favorite lady last year was at $250 until she retired; I saw her maybe 15 times in her last year in business.
In terms of the issues you mentioned (technique, class, intelligence, education, etc.), rate is not a factor throughout my price range. I have just as many disappointments at the low end, as in the high. There are factors more telling than the rate. Younger ladies (say 23 and below) tend to be less "professional" - late for appointment, does not keep hotel room as tidy, run out of towels, etc., and less interesting to talk to. I also have better luck with indies; traveling agency girls tend to be more tired, and have less energy.
A higher rate usually means a better hotel room, a more "glammed up", more fashionable girl, and not much else really. More down-to-earth ladies tend to be on the lower end.
All that to say I agree with you, Ciara. 
All hobbyists have one or more filters. Age, height, build, screening process, reviewer opinions, deposits, and of course price are all examples of filters that we might use to determine if we wish to see someone. We may use all, some, none, of these or a completely different set. We also give different amounts of weight to the filters that we do use.
For me generally filters fall into two categories lets call them soft and hard (no pun intended). I treat soft filters like guidelines and they tend to fall into ranges. Age, build, and reviews are examples of these. Hard filters are like thresholds or simple yes/no rules. Deposits are an example of a yes no decider. Price is a threshold, but it is not fixed. If a lady charges no more than my price threshold, I don't consider price at all (with one exception), if she does then other considerations apply.
The exception to this is if the lady is IMHO way under priced in the market. In that case my scam/LE alert goes off and unless she has a long history of exceptional reviews by known hobbyists I pass. "if its too good to be true it probably is".
I am not prepared to "bend" my real life finances to see a provider. So my price ceiling is based on if the cost of a 1 1/2 or 2 hour visit has no noticeable impact on my weekly disposable funds. I don't for example put off servicing the car for a couple of weeks to see someone. I am prepared to put hobbying on hold for a short while to accumulate the funds to see someone priced above my normal price threshold. Obviously this tends to make price more of a factor in a spontaneous decision than when considering a provider who has scheduled a visit a month or more in the future.
Generally in my home market the threshold that divides whether price is a factor in my decision process is $$$ for the hour with a quality GFE.
-J
Like the providers were some kind of Sam's Club special.
Consider the case of a restaurant. Who hasn't paid upward of $100/person for a fine dining experience?
Was it really five times better than the food, service and ambiance at your neighborhood bistro?
Similarly, providers bring an aesthectic quality to their sessions, and each is different. I might have decided to splurge on a high priced provider just to see what it was all about; but still enjoy the more reasonably priced gals whom I see all the time.
There's no right or wrong about it.
There it is, you decide.
Pricing works a little differently in the hobby than anywhere else. It isn't just based on what the market will bear, it is also based on what *she* can bear.
When donations get into the super-high levels, like $800, I am tempted to wonder how serious she is about seeing any clients.
The higher priced providers are using their rate to control their volume. There are obviously guys paying it or you wouldn't even be seeing these ladies listed anywhere. A gal who charges that kind of money (assuming she is not a porn star, where that is actually a starting point) is simply trying to maximize her revenue per client and may very well be quite happy to only see a few guys a month. In a lot of cases these are women with other careers who are doing this on a very part time basis. I would never assume that any woman who puts herself out there is not serious about seeing clients or making money.
my best experience was with a lady who charges $$.5 in a market that the average is $$$! and to this day she is the only provider that IMHO I have felt that I shorted.... just an incredible evening - and one that I remember now.... 5 years later!
Funny, I had a gem of a lady like that who I ended up being a regular with for about a year. She was at $250 and all of the other ladies I was seeing had been at $300. I always tipped her the extra $50 just because I felt like I was ripping her off...of course I wasn't but it just seemed like the right thing to do...
& hobbyists have the right to pay those rates if they choose. In this country we have a FREE market, folks. If a beautiful provider can line up a bunch of well-heeled CEO sugar daddies to keep them in clover, more power to them. On a recent post I bemoaned the fact that I decided NOT to book w/ a provider because she bumped up her rates to a 2 hour 1k minimum----too much for my blood. I was a bit irritated by the experience, but, hell----if she CAN get those rates, fine---it's what the market allows.
Those who whine about high provider rates can have the option of seeing lower priced providers, OR travelling to another city where the prevailing rates are lower. I noticed that in the smaller cities providers tend to charge lower than in the bigger markets.
I suggest those hobbyists who suggest "price controls" for providers are a bunch of closet Commies &/or Socialists-----LMAO ! ----
I recently got word that a certain lady was talking about me again, lol. What she was saying was how do I & another provider specifically, who do we think we are with what we charge? Well this particular "lady" used to charge the same amount. And I run a special sometimes as well as the other gal gives discounts when needed. But we are said to 'think we are all that' cause we are not begging for dates.
I was kinda shocked to hear this & disgusted. How in the world can someone charging more than you be hurting you biz? I could see if it was way less, that may hurt your biz in some way.
Can you imagine blaming someone you hardly know for your business failing?
Sara
-- Modified on 11/24/2007 9:52:50 AM
The post was generated because I have heard so much gossip from some providers about why I charge what I charge, and some hobbyists think the cheaper you are the worse you are. Not true.
I agree with you. It's no one's business what we charge. That's the point I'm making. Just because I charge a certain amount for Incall versus Outcall allows me to not have to drive anywhere and be comfortable with my clients. This post had nothing to do with downing top-end providers. In fact, the message is going out to those who think that by some of us lowering our prices it is because we aren't beautiful, don't have nice homes, are desperate. Not the case at all for me. I was only speaking for myself.
I am defending those providers who are still beautiful but some don't think they're top-notched because we don't charge a lot. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way.
Hugs,
Ciara
I have the class problem... not you.
-- Modified on 11/24/2007 4:33:08 PM
not a White Castle guy.
occasionally eating greasy bacon, cheese scrambled eggs, English muffins and hash browns is just tempting (at least twice a year).
Hugs,
Ciara
by the ladies behind the counter. Their banter is often times funny. I eat alone a lot so I sit at the counter and pretend to read the newspaper but listen in.
Your namesake in Buffalo also loves breakfast at Denny's.
I think I probably worded mine wrong.
I sent you a PM. sara
you at the South Florida M & G.
compliments, so I will not blow smoke for you...
I think having choices is the beauty of life. I make no assumptions based on price, age or even looks how an encounter will go... I do know what looks good to me and as long as the reviews are not terrible or specifically geared towards something I do not enjoy... then that is what drives me... me is the only person who I am worried about...
I'm sure you have specific reasons for your post. I wish the conversation was not about what was wrong as I find that to be less likely to be casuing suffering.
I would guess that the men who enjoy you will enjoy you at any price... and any reputation you have built is well deserved. and if anyone doesnt like how you live... well fuck them!.. I say.
On the contrary, I was hoping that people would realize that some of us who don't charge a lot are still happy with themselves, intelligent and attractive people.
Hugs,
Ciara
there were the residents who clearly were attractive... and were fun to take care of... I have the feeling that Ciara will be one of those... but alas, it will be her luck to have as a neighbor.... an old crumudgeon who complains about her laughter... and wry wit...
hee hee..... maybe that will be me!? lol!
Gettin old does not mean unattractive... just as being young does not mean fun. There are folks who are born with the attitude of a 45 yr old.... while there are those who are 90 and still have a twinkle in their eye.
and for those wondering Ciara is NOT old.
I were sure you were not looking/fishing.
Money has never been a determinant of anything...
I did it because of her wit and intelligence. neither of which was I disappointed in. She makes no secrets of her desires. Which is why her posts are well worth reading. Even if at times, I may disagree with her position, the thought that she puts into what she has to say, makes what she says worth knowing.
This post is no exception and reflects what others have offered. it is well worth reading and knowing. Sadly, I cannot see her more often (assuming that she would see me!). However, the experience that she offers is pure magic.
Many do use price as a limiter on the number of "friends" they entertain. Some use time constraints... in my area there is one provider who consistantly is in demand and could offer services for a whole lot more than she charges - but she does not. I am one of the fortunate ones she does see - and she is worth her price... and then some... as is Ciara... Common to both of these women is that they wish to take away enjoyment from the session - that is, was this a person that they enjoy knowing.... and if so - all is good.
personally, I would hate to be with someone who was not enjoying themselves... no matter what I paid for the time.
we all know you are just a frumpy 75 yr. old matron who loves old, bald, paunchy grandfathers like me......
NOT
Just my opinion...
B
very good point you've brought up! as for myself, florida is very seasonal, and dec-april is the time to really make up for the lost time. i do however have a partime professional job, and that is partly the other reason i slightly raise my rates, as im not available all day and night anymore, as the day job picks up too. my time becomes a bit more limited for this hobby, i plan to only increase my 1 hour rate, and the rest will remain the same this year. but there are many factors that partake on why each girl may have higher rates than others. if i was was doing this fulltime, available 24-7 i would probably have 200/hour rates. i do not see but one, possibly 2 guys in any given day, and possibly only 3 a week, and that IS my choice. thanks for bringing up a great topic.
-- Modified on 11/25/2007 12:02:33 AM