I'm sorry.  But I am sick to fucking death of this subject!  It should not happen at all.  I have even heard rumors that many of us ladies being are on a BBFS list!  I heard there are providers on this rediculous list who have NEVER EVER done BBFS with a client!  Including myself!  What we have here are a bunch of guys who want it.  When they don't get it, they try to ruin some ladies reputations by lieing about it!  

So I say NO!  Absolutely not.  No BBFS section.  No to allowing it in reviews.  NO NO NO!!  Why?!  Because men lie.  Period.  They will lie about it.  Then the ladies reputation is ruined.  Not fair.  AND not a good idea at all.  

I am passionate about this subject because I was told recently that some asshat lied about me doing it!  Seriously!!  I heard it from another provider.  Riiiigggght!!!  NOT!... more like WRONG!  I use female condoms.  So the gents penis is bare.  But I am never bare.  Herein lies the problem!

The problem is that a guy can go see a lady, pressure her for BBFS.  NOT get it, and then brag that he did.  Or he can threaten the lady with a bad review if she doesn't do it, still not get it and say he did.  I am not on board with this at all.  I think it will cause a lot of trouble here.  I can handle bullshit rumors.  Because I know they are just that...bullshit rumors and lies.  But to allow BBFS reviews and recommendations here?!  No way!  Not a good idea at all.  This is one can of worms that needs to stay closed.

If it is allowed, I will need to buy more popcorn for all the train wrecks to come!

My first reaction, before reading subsequent discussion, was posted on the Chicago Board.

"If it is included in the reviews, then I shall avoid any provider who offers it.

"My first inclination was to ban the subject, but perhaps it should be discussed. If a provider wants to attract her target clientele that way, it's between her and her client. I would want to know if she offers it because that knowledge is critical in my evaluation/decision process."


After considering much of what has been written, I believe there will be far more deception than honesty. It is up to the individual hobbiest to determine the risk he is willing to take if and when offered.  

So while I appreciate TER's attempt to help us remain safe, I believe the boys and girls must learn individual responsibility.

As for me, as soon as BBFS is offered, the session is immediately ended. If you like to live dangerously, be my guest. I cannot stop you.

never said they did. Read the post

What if a review is posted but it is a complete ie from a disgruntled hobbyist? this can really hurt biz for providers!

Those who want it will want to know, and those who want to avoid providers that offer it will too.

I don't know of any other source that is doing this. Perhaps TER will be a leader in the area.

Accurate information is always a good thing.


Halfhour

Or suggested that things occurred (CIM, Greek, DFK with non-GFE providers) when they didn't for personal entertainment.

Bullshit move and if TER honestly expects anyone to believe that this was done altruistically for the betterment and safety of providers or clients I have some land to sell them.

This was done for site traffic, readership, membership and MONEY plain and simple.

So now we'll have the simpletons and people who just don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves amping up the "but everyone is doing it!" and encouraging it as a standard.

No, TER is not explicitly saying "now everyone go fuck without a condom, you hear?" but by allowing these unsubstantiated reviews to post they will be passively promoting it.

Don't agree?  Just look at how the standards of GFE changed over the years.  Apparently 25 years ago it was unheard of to DFK a hooker or expect an uncovered blowjob as a standard.  Now look at things.  CBJ providers are bashed for daring to call themselves GFE regardless of what experience they provide aside from that single act.  Many girls want to go to CBJ or want to limit services but are afraid of losing income.

And how exactly is TER going to address the alias + BBFS review?  No client in their right mind is going to say they had unprotected sex with a provider with their handle.  So we'll have people making claims and providers trying to refute it left and right whether its true or not.

Its just a garbage decision.

If BBFS is to be allowed in reviews, that the use of an alias not be allowed by the reviewer in that instance.

For some time I have heard that the female condom feel close or even the same (to some guys) as bare. But i have never met ONE provider who will even try them.

I am not for BBFS.

With that being said, you have never had a penis and you can NEVER know what a condom does to a man. Not even if you duct tape your clit, dear.

I am not for BBFS and would never do it.

There are some men, like me, who cannot orgasm while wearing a condom. You should really think about that in the context of this entire subject.

I bet you and I are on the same side on all of this issue, but unless it is brought out into the open, it will always be a HIDDEN danger.


HH

In the last 24 hours there has been a lot of discussion, across the various boards, about reviews and posts on BBFS.

While TER is not endorsing BBFS, we do realize that it happens.   Ignoring BBFS puts everyone at risk.

We want hobbyists and providers to be able to make informed decisions.  By posting reviews and allowing BBFS to be discussed on the boards, we feel the entire community will benefit.

This is a very important topic and we do appreciate your comments.

WTF to people who are equating BBBJ to BBFS.

BBBJ is dangerous yes.  

BBFS with multiple people weekly is a fucking death sentence to providers and clients and their wives who we already know you don't give a shit about.

Are you aware of how many clients a touring provider can fuck in a week?  30-50+

Lets just start reviewing the ones that perform this service indiscriminately (and if you've been fucked by a provider BBFS you're not the only one whether she's done it for 5 clients or 50 true story).  Lets let the clients who are interested or curious in this service find her more easily than ever before.

And lets sit back and watch the "my dick stings when I pee" "OMFG I think I have herpes" posts amp up.

* taps the mic*  "this thing on?" .... and surge in discussions has been going down much longer than 24hrs.

And since i'm still up (damn insomnia) I know i'll be seeing a lot of someone is BB'ing someone (bbfs) in their personal lives (wife, gf, bf), I don't but I have to say to that SO WHAT anyways you don't go and turn to doing it to client(s) you feel a bond with  or so you tell them you do (HA!) or provider(s) you feel a bond who or so you tell her/them. And if you haven't caught anything yet or anything you haven't been able to get rid of yet good for you *looks at the watch I don't have on for the time to come*.  Yes yes bbj is risky too but gawh bbfs intercourse or anal definitely doesn't help things....cbj only is looking very tempting. OUT *drops mic*  (off to bed now thanks Unisom).  

-- Modified on 11/22/2011 6:14:01 AM

BBFS is  now prevalent as Hell, and has been for  quite some time. Anyone with any sense or plays much in this game knows it.  As the economy SUCKS and AIDs is not a death sentence anymore, BBFS is as common as Campbell's Soup. It's NO SECRET that many of the top rated providers now offer BBFS and get their scores  of "10" this way.  BB Greek is no longer that taboo either in higher echelon circles.  I get tired of the posters that feign horror when learning it happens in this game.  

While  I think there MAY be some "scarlet letter/stigma" factor of BBFS participants in this game, it's now so prevalent that I know some providers who don't even stock condoms on a regular basis. I know some providers will market with BBFS as a selling point while others will mock them while hypocritically offering the service on a YMMV basis.   I actually had a provider call me a "pussy" last month for asking for a condom. (TRUE).  Those "in the know" in this hobby know that condoms have been optional in many high rated provider sessions for years.  Most providers that score "10"s consistently that have the   looks of your kid's school bus driver are doing BBFS.  DUH!  

Wake up people. Be informed, but be safe. Condoms are optional in some circles (usually higher echelon,  and lower echelon girls).


BBFS is part of the game these days. Get used to it, and quit bitching with your head in the sand.  

I know some girls & guys may threaten to quit TER over this policy, but the practice of BBFS is REALITY.

One can only assume if BBFS can now be discussed in reviews, profiles, and boards, it will now be allowed to be featured in provider ads ???    Please clarify.   Many girls already use BBFS code of "Ultra GFE"   or "Ultimate GFE" in ads anyway.

it makes it easier to avoid.  I only read a few reviews so it is hard to dig through everything  that everyone said.

a separate category in the profile would be helpful.

This is a Pandora's box that should stay closed as far as written reviews go, IMHO. I don't think any of us have our heads in the sand on this topic yes, unfortunately it happens. It's only a matter of time before some reviewer decideds to test to see if he can get a BBFS review to post, regardless of whether he got it or not.

Steph

IMO, discussion may be good, but promoting BBFS is not a wise decision.  Personally, I am not the slightest bit interested in engaging in BBFS with providers and hope that it does not become a mainstream practice.  While I am aware that BBFS does occur and acknowledge that it may be valuable to know the prevalence of such activities, I believe that unsafe sex practices are not in the best interests of the majority of hobbyists or providers.  I would like to believe that most people in this hobby are responsible adults with the best interests of all members of our community at heart.  IMHO, there will always be some people who value short term gratification over long term health concerns.  However, I believe that such practices are unwise from a health perspective. There is an abundance of scientific and medical evidence documenting the efficacy of condom-use in preventing the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases.  We have come so far in promoting safe sex since the advent of the 1980's AIDS scare. It would be a shame to take a step back and risk losing all that we have gained in terms of respect for our chosen lifestyle. FYI, parts of my post were submitted on the "Boston" board.

I think this will be a mixed blessing.  It does allow guys to make better decisions about who they want to see and who they don't.  But for the ladies, it can only be negative.  If a guy feels he was wronged in a session, they will now have the opportunity to post reviews saying they got BBFS when they DIDN'T and the lady has no way to refute them.  *At the very least, alias reviewers should NOT be allowed to post reviews claiming bbfs.*

Plus there are many ladies out there who don't want to publicize what they'll do with some clients but this destroys that privacy and may hurt her business.  Every adult has the option to do what they want, but if there's a lady I want to see and I read she BB's MOST clients, then she's clearly lost my business and I know I'm not the only one thinking this way.

That's nuts.  Here's why.  We all know BBFS takes place.  I believe it's less prevalent than some of these comments indicate, but it's useful to discuss it and not pretend it doesn't exist.
But puttng it into reviews will simply drive away women who are tagged with the BBFS "Scarlet Letters."  It is also ripe for abuse.  For example it's a great way for someone to smear ladies who don't perform BBFS but have offended someone by refusing to see them.  The end result could be mass delisting of providers from TER.  How does she prove a negative? Who does that help?  Let's be practical here: talk about the implications of BBFS and share info back channel, fine.  Put it in reviews? Dumb.

I think if the mods look at who is for and against this (they can see aliases) they will see what the right answer is here, and why some people would love it to be in the reviews and ads.

that these threads are a way for hobbyists who WANT BBFS to find providers who will supply it? Awareness is great, and no one is going to admit unhealthy/dangerous practices on an open board. But, just as the CONSTANT discussion regarding BBFS can provide awareness, it can also act as a conduit for those looking for it. TER's own poll indicates 41% of respondents would go see a BBFS - supplier "right now" - a higher number than those who went with "No Fucking Way" (showing there are lots of pharmaceutical company CEOs and undertakers on here). I think these discussions will do more to promote trolling for BBFS than calling it out. I'm not sure this is such a good idea, but it's not my board...

-- Modified on 11/22/2011 5:27:41 AM

Truth and transparency is never wrong or dumb!

Yes, this hurts providers a LOT. It's completely false to assume that many providers are consistently offering off-menu or bb items to certain clients... a lot of us do not waver from our policies because we respect our health and that of our clientele.

BBFS is so much more harmful to a provider than a client- if an engineer/computer programmer/artist/etc. gets a disease, it doesn't interfere with their ability to provide for themselves and their families... if an escort allows BBFS, she immediately puts her business, her livelihood and her health at risk.

Personally, I would like to see BBFS in reviews (another reason to keep my VIP membership), because I wouldn't want to risk seeing a client who exposes himself to more diseases than I deem a manageable risk.

What is everyone's opinion on letting the provider indicate BBFS in her ad on the board?  Some of the feedback so far indicates talking about BBFS on the boards is fine, but not in reviews.   If the ad indicates BBFS is available, then should a review for that provider be posted if there was BBFS?

So that we may make informed decisions.

Besides, there is a disparity between the treatment of BBBJ and BBFS on this board.  One is encouraged,  while the discussion of the other is banned. As we know now oral sex with multiple partners is a significant health risk.

[This is a re-post from the New Jersey board]

Here are a few reasons why reviews of BBFS might scare a provider...

As a provider who does not and will not do BBFS this puts us at a lot of risk (like we don't have to worry enough!). While some ladies do engage in BBFS and would probably like the publicity, the vast majority would not, whether or not they engage in that behavior.

-A false accusation of BBFS can put ladies at risk for losing a lot of income that they depend on to take care of themselves, their family. Let's face it, most providers become providers because they find themselves in a financial crisis as it is. Nobody is going to read a BBFS review (who does not want to see those BBFS providers) and think of it as a work of fiction.

-What is to stop any wackjob from trying to use this to their advantage to harm a provider? What if I choose not to see a guy due to his age, race, lack of references, unreasonable requests, bad manners, bad hygiene, his having been blacklisted. Now that wackjob can turn around and try to smear a provider for simply trying to protect herself and have a decent work environment.

-Almost every provider has had a stalker. Now any stalker, any competition, an ex-boyfriend, can use this to their advantage and even do it under an alias, without the provider having any opportunity to defend herself.

-What if a fake BBFS goes up about me when this is not a service I provide? Now the men who seek those providers will start booking with me and I might not have a clue until we are face to face. Now that he EXPECTS BBFS from me, maybe he will decide to take it personally and force it upon me or beat me up. I hate to break it to you, but there are quite a few hobbyists that already have rejection issues and they do not take it well when it comes from "a sure thing".

I don't disagree that open discussion is fine and dandy, but not in reviews. It simply isn't fair to the ladies that don't provide BBFS. We can't refute reviews as it is and to this day I have never seen some bad client take any personal accountability for a bad session. At least with a bad review we can still redeem ourselves with other good reviews, but for MANY hobbyists, seeing that a provider does BBFS immediately and permanently crosses her off his list and then we end up having to put up with every guy who wants BBFS making our lives miserable.

1.I think there should be a separate discussion board and a

2. Separate ad board for it. If it is allowed in reviews there should be a flag so the reviews can be searched.

3. There should be a new search function to be able to search with in the reviews for terms such as cfs, "put the cover on", ultimate, ultra. This will allow folks to find the old reviews that have such terms in them. There is a problem in that years ago people did not realize those terms meant bbfs like they have in the past 2-3 years.

I really hope that  the general board readers will take a look at the Chicago boards postings on this very topic all the boards  recieved it and responded there were some wonderful  different points of view I hope some will cut and paste  their original  thoughts over here...... Phx  where I am from..... also responded quite  well as did Boston  and others  with sujestions and reasons why it should be disscussed or mention in reviews ...or not....or even discussed period......

by themselves and not just thrown into the general population of reviews. I for one don't want to have to read every review to determine who is safe or not. Not only that it concerns me who has seen her and who they have seen.  With the far reaching implications that this plague has I for one want full disclosure and want it easy to isolate.

You honestly think anyone would write a BBFS review not using an alias? Yeah, right!

Eeeeewwwwww!!!!!

I thought massage "privates to privates" was some type of calling card till I was educated on what that meant. So that's a tease for the gentleman on a hunt to slip his head into skin to skin. I would think any lady with that on her profile has a fight on her hands often. Now there will be less guess work on the man's part and less risk for the ladies who care not to engage in this practice or as with second hand smoke, deal with the residual effects. You won't find that on my profile yet I still get men cumming my way and trying. I think I react as in " sorry no Bareback here buddy". Well, I guess or hope they will finally find exactly what they want "RAW" and let other ladies alone.

So let's see who the first lady will be advertising BBFS here.

Kisses Haley

Wondering how many people are sitting there wondering if their name will be brought up in a bbfs discussion or review.

I am cool as a cuke this morning, how about YOU?

They want it!

There has been a lot of recent discussion on the boards, and I have to say that I was surprised at the poll number that the MAJORITY would see a bbfs provider.  From my perspective, it certainly would be nice to know who is providing it so they could be avoided. But adding this to the profile and reviews adds a lot of possible complication for the ladies.

If you add a bbfs "indicator" on the profile, who gets to specify this?  Hopefully the provider only.  Otherwise, they are going to be continually fighting corrections and fallacies that are reported.  And as many have pointed out, this poses great harm to their business and/or personal safety.  As for the reviews, again I don't know how you moderate the review of bbfs as all reviews are fictional stories.  Are bbfs reviews only allowed if the provider has indicated bbfs as part of her profile.  How can a provider go about removing inaccurate reviews.

Again, it would be nice information to know...but the reality is that it isn't easy.

WHY is having it in reviews a big deal, and WHY would a guy ever be denied service based on this criteria???   Most girls already see TONS of guys engaging in BBFS.  DUH.  This whole thing seems much ado about nothing.

I see ladies using it to SLAM other ladies however, and it being a catty thing with providers.  Most providers already do BBFS on a YMMV basis.  Most ladies LIE about NOT doing it however.

Just read the reviews.  I did some research on internet and found out guys will say "the reviews that don't mention condom are bbfs" or they will use key words such as ultra or ultimate. I had to stop reading the reviews because I don't have the time to read them all.

double edged sword those guys that "want it"  want you to  just do it with them do not want to think  your doing it with others

It's beyond naive to think there will be truth and transparency on this subject.  See some of the posts below.  There is more reason for false info on this subject than perhaps any other.  That's why I'm all for discussing it openly but against having it in reviews and ads.

What I see happening is alias reviewers posting they were offered or received and in fact they could be writing a fake review to spite the provider for not approving them for an appointment.

This will be damaging. Those who do not offer and receive a review like that will get unwanted solicitations and loose clients who do not want to take the chance and risk.

I hope TER allows for a provider to have any review that states BBFS removed if in fact they do not offer it or advertise it.

In some cases I think a provider who has offered it to some will not want that known and offered to everyone. So they may ask TER to remove a review that states it even though it may have been offered to the individual, but not to everyone.

In the case of adding BBFS to the profile, this will change the game for many.

so true but still have concerns with it being in reviews  fore reasons  you have already stated

Like NHSS (Naive High School Sweetheart Experience) .

I think it's a good idea to allow BBFS in reviews in theory.

Provider X has BBFS with Reviewer Y and it's posted in a review. Now every hobbyist who is looking for BBFS knows to see Provider X, or to avoid her if he is respulsed by the notion. Providers can avoid Reviewer Y if they don't want to see someone openly engaging in BBFS. Fellow reviewers can even avoid seeing providers who see clients engaging in BBFS by doing alittle cross-referencing. Everyone is happy.

However, things rarely end up following their theoretical course. I would bet this eutopian scenario will rarely occur. Most providers who engage in BBFS will still want to keep it UTR. Why? I doubt they do it with EVERY client, but once it's out there they perform BBFS, EVERY client will expect it.

Most reviewers won't "out" the providers performing BBFS openly in a review. Why? They like the fact they are getting BBFS and won't want to jeopardize continuing to receive it. Even hiding your TER user name or posting under an alias is useless since most providers can easily tell who the reviewer is from the review regardless of how clever they think they are.

I fear that the majority of the claims of BBFS will be written by reviewers using an alias who were wronged by a provider, either real or imagined, and seeking revenge.

Also what if the condom breaks and both the client and provider don't realize it until client pulls his dick out ? That has happened to me a few times or the condom slipped off. Technically it was not bbfs because we did not agree to  it, but it was bbfs. Do you think that should be put in the review. In both cases it felt really good and it was not until afterwords I realized what happened. In my civie life and hobby life I always use condoms for both vaginal and anal sex since the mid 1990's. When these incidents happened a few years ago with the providers it was an experience of a lifetime.

There is a lot of good discussion on going on here and we are listening.  Thank you for your comments.

TER is NOT promoting BBFS.  What we are trying to do is keep you informed.

As most of you have acknowledged, it happens.  

So, please continue to give us your opinion of posting reviews, discussion board threads and ads which reference to BBFS.  

Yes, some a__holes might use it as an opportunity to slander providers that they didn't like, for whatever reason.  But unfortunately, they can do that now as well -- give a provider a review with two "1"s or write a totally fictional (but aren't they all) review.

Part of the problem with the TER system, if I understand it correctly, is that current items in a provider's profile like BBBJ are entered by the first person to write a review of that provider.  If that reviewer lies, or if the provider later changes her offerings, there isn't any way to update that "services offered" section -- is there?

Since TER verifies providers, I'd like to see that services offered section controlled by the provider herself, and to see BBFS included there.

Each hobbyist has their own personal comfort level.  For me, BBBJTC is acceptable, BBFS is not, and I would never knowingly see a BBFS provider.  But I'm always going to believe that having more information is better than less information.

As others have said, this practice is already out there, TER including it as a review option isn't really creating something that doesn't exist.  It just allows all of us to make more informed, better decisions.  And if TER makes a few more bucks as well, good for them.

I think if the woman wants to advertise for it, then fine. It's HER choice and I am not judging.
It's the danger of allowing **others** to make that allegation that is wrong. This will mean the beginning of the very end of the site IMO. First allegations then women wanting out because all the slime buckets want to book with her, and all the covered gentleman want to run. This is getting ridiculous.

some have used the phrasing to differentiate there ads.  I understand that in recent times it has come to have dual meanings but that still doesn't mean that it should be taken to have that exclusive meaning.

Personally, I like slipry's idea that maybe it should only be listed on a provider's profile, so that at LEAST she can send a problem report should she want to attempt to protect herself against slander. I don't know of any perfect solution since guys will always find creative ways to review BBFS (i.e. ultra...ultra GFE...10/10 ratings) but allowing potential for fake BBFS reviews can be really harmful to the ladies for the various reasons I stated in the above post, and I strongly believe we should at least have some recourse to account for that.

How would you police the truth from lies?

on both sides of the issue and do it in a timely responsive manner.

Well, you have to think that some men LIKE it. Some women OFFER it. That's life, some people have fetishes that aren't always healthy. I accept that. Let them all find eachother. What worries me is the shitload of allegations and people defending themselves. Once someone points a finger, even if you get it taken down, it will be hard to live that down.

I think discussion in reviews and postings, as well as a drop down menu in profiles would be a great improvement!

A lot of the problems raised are ones that have been dealt with before in other forms: false reviews, correction of false reviews, managing provider and client expectations... etc etc.

On a side note, the scoring system's built in encouragement of bbbj should be reviewed as well...

So MANY providers offer BBFS on at least a YMMV basis, and LIE about it publicly.  Many of the best reviewed girls on this site offer BBFS.  It's hardly a secret.  Seeing  a dollop of glistening pearly jism  oozing out of a hot pink pussy or an ass is a sight to behold.

So, if you don't see the vast potential for abuse here, how would you feel about the ladies posting on the discussion boards false accusations of clients demanding BBFS when it is not on the menu? It already happens from both sides backchannel but but at least it can be taken with a grain of salt. There are still people who believe everything they read on the internet is true.

Personally I am not against discussion of BBFS on the discussion boards, but in reviews, I am shocked that this would even be a consideration ONLY because of the potential for abuse. Every provider who does not offer it will have to start fearing turning clients away for valid reasons, fearing stalkers and abusive clients, clients becoming enraged when he EXPECTS BBFS and she declines, anyone she turns away for poor hygiene, age, unreasonable requests, poop fetishes lol etc etc, essentially anything that makes us feel uncomfortable. It's about more than what the truth is if someone does not engage in BBFS. To allow that to take place would, in my opinion, would be a huge disservice to the female half of our community, and if TER truly cares obout the safety of our community, they need to consider that, as well.

Good point. If a provider has to do certain acts to get certain scores, what will TER's requirements be for a "10" now that people are openly providing BBFS? Will that be frowned upon, in an official capacity, or be rewarded with higher scores?! The scores sould be subjective as it is!

do BB with them.  Married guys who are still getting some, although maybe very rarely, at home are most likely BB the wifey.

Single guys don't have to worry about bringing anything home to a Mrs.  Now, do the single guys want to take that risk?  That to me is the question.  If I were single, No F'kn Way!

Right because if it's up for one day that pretty much destroys someones reputation.

And, so many men LIE about getting bbfs. One thing to do it back channel, another to do it "hobbyworld legal". TER sets the standards for the hobby at this time, and this will ruin it's credibility when all the STALKERS come out to play in the light with PERMISSION.

Where she can designate "covered penetration" or "bbfs.". This will serve as a protection of sorts from "nefarious" gents who are stalkers or have an ax to grind from putting up a fake bbfs review

Most ladies have experienced an innocent (to them) fake review where a guy generally posts it just for free V.I.P. and many probably did not realize it because the gent was clever and mirrored her scores and wrote similar text to other reviews for the lady.  However, some have had reviews posted by men who are stalkers or have an axe to grind (she refused to see him, she blacklisted him for dangerous behavior) and who posted low scores or a bad performance review.  Now these individuals have a new weapon in their arsenal.... Bbfs review or the threat thereof.  A review of this sort, for a safety minded provider, could permanently damage her reputation and/or result in the next hobbyist wanting the same type of appointment.  If the profile was marked to show that a lady does not provide this, service, a phony review purporting bbfs, should be withheld until such a time as a deterination could be made if it were accurate.  Does this make sense?  

Now, of course, given that all reviews on this site a purely fictional endeavors by The T.E.R. erotic writers guild, comprised of amateur writers of erotica, who now have a platform for their submissions.... We all know that no actual sexual transactions , or P4P really occurs in this cyber reality.

Just my .02 cents!!!

I see ladies using it to SLAM other ladies however, and it being a catty thing with providers.
**********

You just made my point perfectly. There are catty men too. Manginas I think you refer to them as?

Thanks for the clue. I had no idea that UltraGFE and UltimateGFE stood for BBFS. I shall look more closely, and avoid them like the plague. Come to think of it, the consequences are like the plague.

It only has meaning after you know what it means if you gt my drift. Advertising changes has to be made after you are educated about it

So, if guys have the ability to write BBFS reviews about anybody and everybody, what happens when LE decides to start focusing on those people, whether or not any actual BBFS took place? Next thing you know girls will be a bigger target for LE so they can get stories in the newspaper telling everybody how they are "protecting" the community by locking up what is clearly a "public threat", disease carrying prostitutes and johns.

And, what happens when agencies start engaging in wh*re wars trying to kill the competition and client lists start getting handed over or confiscated. Isn't THAT going to hurt TER's revenue when people decide to quit hobbying after ending up in the papers, the news, and having their wives leaving them? Maybe it's me, but I'm thinking they would find a new hobby. It's hard enough that TER is more high profile than we wish it were.

I have given much thought to this subject.  I will be emailing TER as well and hoping it does not get lost in the mayhem.

BBFS does take place. While I certainly would never consider it and none of the people in the business I know are willing admit it, it’s obvious it takes place. The poll results clearly indicate that it’s far more widespread than my naïve self thought. At first, I was appalled that TER allowed it to be a suitable statement in a review.  Then I was appalled that TER would consider it to be a mainstream-reviewing topic. Then, I thought a bit deeper.

If TER would be willing to allow for reasonable safeguards to be put in place, then I think it would be very beneficial. I listen to my clients and this is what many would say, and have said. They want to be informed. For them information is the sole reason they use TER, keeping that in mind that the information has to be significant and they want it validated.

First, any provider who offers BBFS should have it in her menu. TER should as soon as possible put this field in the provider menu area as an option to be answered. If a companion selects to agree to such a service she cannot contest any review that says she supplied such an item. However, if it’s not in her menu, then it can’t be in the review. This would stop the often-argued posts of providers coercing higher scores for “extra” services. Its no longer an “extra”, it’s on her menu. Any review that mentions BBFS for a companion who does not have it in her menu, is automatically discarded.

The above would then make it easy for clients to select providers based on whatever the clients individual risk level is. It’s his choice and her choice. Overwhelmingly, I hear that clients do not want to follow in the footsteps of a BBFS. True or not, this would eliminate that problem or at least minimize it to no more than the level it is at. TER states “We want hobbyists and providers to be able to make informed decisions.  By posting reviews…..” then TER should act on that statement and include this “informed” fact in the menu. By not following through on this, it shows that the “informed” intent of TER’s policy is nothing more than lip service. If hobbyists have no way to search for such a companion, then it’s not very informative. As a side bar, doing this would generate just as much additional income from VIP memberships as including it in the review. I say this because a member would need VIP to read a companions review or menu to search for such services. This is the true meaning of keeping the hobbyist informed.

The ability of a member to submit an embellished review for any reason is a known fact. TER fixes fake and embellished reviews on a regular basis. Using reviews to cause mayhem and to punish a companion have been documented over and over. Even TER admits this. Being able to submit a review under an Alias about this topic puts EVERYONE at some form of risk. The ability to submit Alias reviews should be abolished. At a minimum, the ability to submit Alias reviews with any mention of BBFS should not be allowed. Again, I stress that if TER is really concerned about hobbyists being enabled to make “informed” decisions then this is an integral part. The hobbyist needs to know if such a service is really on the menu and has been described as part of a real encounter. It also allows the hobbyist to place more trust and weight in the review. This would aide in the true meaning of being informed by a reliable source, adding validity to the review which again is what hobbyists want. TER states that it wants the providers to be informed as well. The provider cannot be very informed if they do not know the preferences and history of the reviewer and the providers he has seen. If TER chooses to not put these safeguards in place, it will just further show that the entire idea TER is trying to support is nothing but lip service.

Finally, there needs to be a well communicated policy of how to combat untrue or embellished reviews. This has been and continues to be a board for hobbyists and I have no issue with that. However the board has a responsibility to police itself to a certain degree for truthfulness. Turning fantasy into pure fiction may be an oxymoron but this chaos will happen. If that happens, it will severely degrade the usefulness of the board and it’s membership. TER needs to allow companions to easily dispute and fix reviews that are just not real. Companions have been sitting on the fence fighting and begging for just a thread of ability to protect themselves; if not in the numerical grade at least in the juicy details.

As far as the stigma of being a provider or hobbyist that participates in this practice, I say so what. Again, if TER is serious about keeping it’s membership informed then it should care less about any stigma. It’s a lifestyle chosen by the individual. This practice is going to happen no matter what we or TER do. Let the chips fall where they will in the effort to provide substance for an informed consumer.

I say bring this out of the backchannel with some modicum of responsibility and validity. I implore TER to consider a method of checks and balances that are both informative and fair to both sides of the fence. TER will see many replies by providers who feel that this is just not an acceptable practice. They say this because they have lost faith and trust in TER to work with them. I don’t disagree with them. But at the same time it’s a subject that will not go away and a practice that is obviously taking place. This is the perfect opportunity for TER to show that it does care about both sides of the fence. If TER refuses to take into account how this affects BOTH the PROVIDER and the HOBBYIST then I feel certain it will continue to see its PROVIDER participation to be abrasive and untrusting.

Some of them get bbfs and don't always give out a high score.

And the reasons for his grudge can be completely invalid. If these types of reviews were allowed, we would be almost forced to put up with unreasonable demands. Say a client has an appointment and he has very bad hygiene and we turn him away. He can now destroy our ability to do our jobs. What are our options, see him anyway and endanger our and our other clients health? If we are good providers and we just get a bad review, we can still offset it by our good reviews, but if we are labeled for having a death wish and we are not actually providing BBFS, there is a very good chance we can't recover from that. Just because some asshole doesn't care if I have children to feed.

Currently one can get vip credits for notifying admin about a problem with a review profile. If someone finds a statement on a providers website that she does do bbfs, the person should be able to report to TER to get some vip credit.

Also IF a  provider who were banned in the past for doing bbfs should have her profiles reinstated.

I agree with you that allowing BBFS reviews, in particular,  would allow for such widespread abuse, that the review system would end up so flawed that the value of TER reviews would be almost useless, if no safeguards can be implemented.

It is something that I just found out about a few weeks ago. I have done some investigations on the net and I was shocked to see how wide spread those words were used to indicate bbfs. The ladies in question did have stuff on their faq that they do bbfs with test results of the client, etc.

A couple things from an old, fat, ugly fuck,

Yes everyone involved in this "Hobby" goes Bareback with someone even if it is Rosy Palm and her five sisters. So to list or not to list? , to review or not ?,To have a space for it on profiles or not?, what is the big deal? Please no speeches about health, I get it.

We all are exposed. We engage and enjoy and are supported by activities that put us at risk. We have sex with strangers. Yes we check out your reviews and yes you screen us but so what?  Ladies if you do go BB isn't it your right to refuse service to someone you deem not worthy of your special services? And guys if a provider offers  BB are you a helpless pawn unable to express your desire to use a condom? BB providers and BB seekers will find each other and they should.The rest of us are kidding ourselves thinking that someone never goes BB with someone else as we are rolling on our protection. But yeah I know, no guy has ever fucked the waitress from Applebees in his car without protection and no wife ever has been so infused with Grey Goose that her panties fell off with the produce boy.

Oh and you mean people lie about others?  To quote Louis Renault " I am shocked that there is gambling going on here" You can't unring a bell so if someone claims you went BB and you don't, well isn't that just part of what we all signed up for when we engage with activities that include P4P and then have others write fiction about what went on?  

Pass the MACALLAN

Just an Old, Fat, Ugly Fuck with an opinion

Im thinking that the fact that it will now be announced in reviews might "scare" the a lady into not doing it, because she wll not want that sort of thing in her reviews.

If there are going to be no censorship of types reviews being posted, why not just start reviewing underage girls and boys and what ever other sick shit people do? After all, "it happens anyway" and it's "the sad reality". Seems like the wrong kind of philosophy to me.

The smearing already happens. There was a lady who had this happen when she was booked and couldn't see a guy. He got pissed and told her he was going to write her a bad review if she didn't drop the other appointment to see him. Sure enough a day later there was a very negative review of her out. It made claims that she not only offered BBFS but was begging for it (even bb Greek). She didn't even offer Greek covered. The review was pulled in about 2 days. I don't remember if he said he took advantage of it.

You hit the nail right on the head. This would be a deadly circumstance in the making if it were allowed. Discussions on the board are fine but anything else could be detrimental to all of us as providers.

That would be the only reason I would want to see it in reviews but again if its falsely put in a review the providers reputation has now been hurt.

I agree I would not want to risk seeing a client who participates in that kind of risk.

I think some of the providers who choose to bbfs but don't want it reviewed will remain the same. They will request that not being posted, and most likely the special client wont post it.

Its a trust issue all the way.  If a provider and client trust each other enough that they are clean and wont give any STD's then I think trusting someone to not post the information pales in comparison to he first level of trust.

If there is a market for bbfs, and there are providers who will offer it, then so be it. Why should ter censure this information?

I remember the days when dfk and bbbj "was just for my boy friend"

Seems to me that behavior also has risks associated.

I do think that bbfs should be up there with anal on the performance rating.  Being bi or doing multiples should be 9 at the most. Anal and bbfs are probably the hardest thing a provider can do.  The rating system is far from perfect but that's a different discussion.

Funny thing I see from all the bbfs discussion is a perception that a provider is a bigger "whore/slut" if she does bbfs.  Get over yourselves and live within the comfort of your own sexuality, live and let live.

I agree that a provider should have every right to request a review to be pulled if someone said she did an act which she didn't.

Peace

No. It was boring enough the first time.

Yes you can update the services offered section by sending a problem report and they will change the information. There were several things not accurate on my profile given by my first review on here and they have corrected all that information. You do have control over it. The admin on here are excellent in getting it right for you. They are here for you.

Another problem and I see your point. Now your guilty for even having been with a provider who offers BBFS. You may never have partaken in it but the fact that a guys has seen a provider who offers it makes him guilty. How can a provider believe a client didn't go BB with the provider. He may be telling the truth but you have no idea, so your safer to just not see him. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
    Now clients have to think about even seeing a lady who is known to offer it. How is that going to affect your being able to book with providers in the future. Will they see you knowing your history. Knowing that they never do BBFS and MIGHT be OK with you by making you wear a cover, or are you essentially blacklisting yourself.

There is a very big legal difference between prostitution and sex with a minor.

If caught by LE, the former incurs embarrassment, relatively small fine, and a night stay in jail... if even that long.  Nobody differentiates between bbfs prostitution, gfe prostitution, or fully covered with a Bodysuit prostitution. If a dick goes in a whole in another body for money its all the same.

Sex with a minor, having porn pictures of sex with a minor is a significant offense. Those caught suffer allienation, significant financial penalties and manditory jail time. Prisonmates who learn of child predators really fuck them up in jail.

Big difference....

Reagan,

Thank you again for bringing your eloquence to this subject.  I personally with all the points you raise for helping to protect both the providers as well as thus hobbyists.

(I so want you now...intelligent & beautiful)

Hello Mr. ALIAS,
As usual, the alias crowd loves to hide under their rocks when it comes to making a statement (usually a ridiculous attempt to be heard without basis). Who are you? God? Do you REALLY know what you are talking about? I very much doubt it. You can not be the ALL-in-ALL of everything. This is how I SEE it - even with TER saying we need to bring it to the forefront.

1. You say AIDS in a not a death sentence. Hmmm...that's interesting. From the Centers of Disease and Prevention: CDC estimates 1.2 million people in the United States (US) are living with HIV infection. One in five (20%) of those people are unaware of their infection. Despite increases in the total number of people in the US living with HIV infection in recent years, the annual number of new HIV infections has remained relatively stable. However, new infections continue at far too high of a level, with approximately 50,000 Americans becoming infected with HIV each year.

In 2009, an estimated 42,011 people were diagnosed with HIV infection in the 40 states with confidential name-based HIV infection reporting since at least January 2006. In that same year, an estimated 34,247 people throughout the US (50 states and the District of Columbia) were diagnosed with AIDS. Since the epidemic began, an estimated 1,108,611 people in the US have been diagnosed with AIDS.

2. How in the world would YOU know that MANY top rated providers now offer BBFS and get the 10's this way? Are you doing BBFS with all of the so-called providers or are you just another know-it-all that makes up a BS BBFS list of providers that supposedly practice it because you can't either afford them or you're jealous of their high ratings and it must be 'something else' they do to get those high ratings. Seriously?

3. You sure must see ALOT of providers to make these ridiculous statements regarding condom practice. Whoever these 'providers' are are obviously foolish women that a. are looking for a death sentence b. are you looking for more money to get their next drug fix c. they are not mentally competent  to be in this industry d. don't give a rats ass to spread their diseases to wives, husbands, BF's, GF's, and ruining other people's lives (including CHILDREN).

4. To quote you "BBFS is part of the game these days. Get used to it, and quit bitching with your head in the sand.  I know some girls & guys may threaten to quit TER over this policy, but the practice of BBFS is REALITY."
Listen, I am NOT going to 'get used to it and I will NEVER accept a proposal of DEATH whereas it seems you may. As well I will BITCH whatever the hell I feel like I need to for MY health and those I spend time with. My head is in the sand? No honey, yours in in the lake. Get over your holier than thou complex and get REAL. Diseases are NOT sexy. Sticking your &^&^ into  unknown orifices and allowing yourself to get Chlamydia, Gonorrhea,Genital herpes, HIV/AIDS,HPV, Syphilis, andTrichomoniasis  is IRRESPONSIBLE and truly unloving to anyone that would be in your company. I would imagine after reading what you say you have done this, yes? You seem to KNOW it all and that you know the circumstances that can lead to hurting others not just you and the so-call high rated provider that doesn't give a rat's ass to ruin anyone else's life.

TER has a responsibility to let others know that this is genocide for all of us not just the ones that 'practice it'. Law Enforcement will be on the rise with this - they will bring it to the press and there will be a witch hunt for all providers not just the 'desperate, unstable and uneducated' providers that believe they will be immune from the repercussions of their actions. This whole thing is for the MEN to get their jolly's off (what is the poll now 41% would LOVE TO DO IT NOW. WTF? I have been asked for BBFS and was appalled saying how do you know I AM safe? Are you safe? do you really know?  You are married!? You have children?! You have a job?! You have your health?! You have your LIFE?!!! It is CRAZY to take any chances for you and your family. Don't let a horny moment lead you to your death bed physically and mentally. 30 seconds of orgasm can reap chaos for the REST of your LIFE. I'm over this now and truly saddened by all of this. I love what I do and how I do it - safely, lovingly and with respect for myself and others.

Namaste,
Chloe
 

or cancel their accounts. I have a couple of provider friends talking about not wanting to be associated with a site that would allow BBFS to be implied too.

It was an analogy of the philosophy some people are using. Obviously an exaggeration.

I really, honestly, do not see the guys who do partake in BBFS, using their real handle to post a review of such activities.... what I foresee is a bunch of alias handles, they we cannot verify anyway. And what about the jilted guy, who couldn't get an appointment, writing a false review to get back at a lady, who in all actuality does not partake in this? If the system is created, so that NO alias reviews would be allowed to post such reviews, then it could possibly work, as then, it would actually serve as a benefactor. But, if no one can actually verify who the guy in question is making the claims, how much credibility does it really hold... and the repercussions it could have on a provider who actually, does not provide this service, could be irreversible.

It's sad that more would see a lady who DOES offer BBFS, than those who would not It's out there, & anyone who has said it's not, is dreaming. I had stated this months ago... when the requests for a certain activity start to increase, that usually means that someone, somewhere IS offering it. It's the same w/BBBJ. It did NOT use to be the norm, and guys would rarely ever request this. Over time, more & more requests came filtering in... why? Because there were ladies that were offering it. Before BBBJ, it was kissing. It's the same concept here.

And to any ladies or gentlemen that partake in this new "trend", you're an idiot. You're NOT the only one who she is providing this to, & for the ladies, he more than likely didn't "just come from the clinic and is clean". If you're relying on doctor tests, heads up, with all the nifty computer programs out there, those can be easily faked or forged. And it's not like you're gonna call up the doc and confirm, as doctor's won't disclose that info over the phone to a 3rd party anyway, & those test results on a piece of paper do not mean squat.

Just because someone "says" their clean, doesn't mean a thing. Someone may even think they are clean, but just BB another provider who wasn't or vice verse.... it can take months or years for HIV to show on your results. I've also heard that the term "Five Star Service" is also equivalent to offering BBFS.

I am also not just talking about writing reviews or an alias review. How about trying to get an OK from P411, or Date-Check. Guys won't be able to hide the fact they were with a lady who provides BBFS from other providers when she looks at his profile to see who has given him a reference. Maybe he doesn't ask that lady for an OK just so he can keep it hidden from other providers.

If people want to do it that  is thier business also if people want to avoid people that do it this gives them the info they need. It is a win win deal

When I did my investigation I noticed the same thing. The new providers are sometimes ignorant of that and not always know that 5-star == bbfs. The others ones clearly had on their site that the do bbfs in the faq. Some indicated that PSE means bbfscip (cum in pussy) and bbfscia (cum in ass). One ladies site indicated that she noticed "bb greek" in her webserver logs. She put a claimer on their that there is no way she would do bbfs but had used the word ultimate in her site banner. I heard that the disclaimers about not doing bbfs are to get the cfs (covered full service) crowd to see them. They tell the bbfs guys that is just a front from what I heard.

BBFS is like playing with fire. Unsubstantiated rumors can quickly kill a lady's business. However, if that is what she wants to advertise, then that is her choice.

I can't see a reason why you would allow it on the Boards, but not the Reviews. I suppose it is easier for a lady to challenge on the boards than a review.

Maybe ad a new field on the lady's profile for BBFS. Only allow it to be set if the lady advertises BBFS or requests it. If the flag is set, then no reason not to allow it in the review.

An open discussion when you have to identify yourself is better than censorship. But an anonymous discussion where you can hide yourself and your agenda is not.

If you are going to make damning allegations, then you have to be man enough to own up to being the source. That is an open discussion.

During my investigation I found out that many of the bbfs providers want the guy to be verified. By a known provider who offers bbfs or a guy they no who is into bbfs. They also want to make sure the guy could have a date-check, p411 or rs2000 profile. The bbfs ladies do their own investigations to make sure the guy is clean and many will check for paper work. I was surprised by the number of ladies on those sites who do bbfs.

I recently found out that I was turned down by a CFS (covered full service) provider because a couple of the ladies on my date-check.com profile have been know to do bbfs. I did not know at first why she turned me down. But after doing my investigation and knowing what happened in the past I put two and two together. They both have posts on hobby boards that indicated they are associated with bbfs.

The lady turned me down instantly after she looked at my date-check.com profile.

I also vote, "Yes let it be posted".

RIGHT! where does it end?

She was suggesting it has gone too far. She was being sarcastic captain obvious

No one is answering the question: what about the girls who are wrongly implicated??

at least over 25-30 times, possibly even more.... No f'ing joke.  The gal's that have offered this were both equally from Agencies and Indie's, but i have never actually gone bbfs with a provider and i never will.
As a matter of fact, just two weeks ago it was offered and i declined. I then opted for her to just give me oral a couple of times, and that was it with that girl. (i will not post a reivew, cause then ya'all will know who i am referencing.)
Even though its been offered sooo many times, i never have gotten used to it. Its actually quite disgusting. If an agency girl is very popular, can you imagine being the 3rd or 4th guy that day where she might've gone bbfs with one or more of those guys that day? Ewwwww......!
Seriously....i just don't get it.
Don't get me wrong, in my personal life, bareback has occured, though not often...just never while hobbying.

What if a provider chooses to offer BBFS in her ads and allows such an option in her profile. She suffers a significant lose of business or something comes up that causes her to change her profile to covered only. Now clients who might not have seen her in the first place go to see her. The risk is still present for them to contract an std no matter how remote. Furthermore she might still be continuing the BBFS practice with her earlier clients.

Allowing discussion on the boards is fine but going any further is opening a can of worms that can't ever be put back in again.

Stay away from sex all together, that is the safest.

So, when people can post BBFS reviews and you quickly realize how many assholes we have to deal with that will do anything to hurt our business, and that it is EVERY provider, who the hell are the hobbyists going to be seeing? You will be home jerking off since there no one left to trust. Unless of course you are the type that is out there trying to get AIDS. You would be ecstatic at first until you show up and realize there are so many fake BBFS reviews out there and you won't get what you want. It defeats the whole purpose of reading reviews at all!

How is BBFS any different from allowing BBBJ or ANAL in the reviews?
These are all steps away from safe sex.

another point made very nicely, thank you

Most married men engage in BBFS on a regular basis, are you going to stop seeing them as clients?
Or is it just when they have BBFS with a prostitute that you get concerned?

So here me out!!!   NO I dont provide it!!!
I believe it should be a topic for this board that way The men who want will no where to go for it. And not attempt it on the sly. Which happened to me from a guy whos been hobbying for quite some time. Hes not on this board. But is still doing it to other ladies.  His thing slicing condoms so he ends up with bare back. Yes I know I should have provided the condoms. Thank god I didnt catch a thing except 2 abortions!!  Yes im still scared from it. So I figure if guys no who is avail for that particular item then they will use their service rather then attempting or bothering ladies that choose life and health over paying for antibiotics or azt.  go head ream me.

Wow !!!!  How did he he slice the condom without you seeing when he put it on his penis ?

Agree with Inicky.  The possibility of a disgruntled hobbyist or competitor saying that someone provides BBFS when she doesn't seems like a major downside risk.  The recent poll I just anwered on "My TER" showed that about half of all hobbyists would automatically run like Hell from a provider if they knew she did BBFS with anyone.  It's your own poll, guys, although half was less than I thought it would be.  That's way different from just a phony bad review in a string of good reviews.  Does admin want to deal with a series of crying providers who claim that they they don't do "that", and that the review should be taken down?  How would you decide who is telling the truth?

Of course they are all steps away from safe sex. Never said they weren't. The review I was talking about was a fake review written about the lady for no other reason then to HURT HER REPUTATION. She never saw him and it never happened. He wrote the review telling everyone how she was 1/2 an hour late and then offered him EVERYTHING BB. Putting it in the review because it happened or was offered is a whole different kettle of fish compared to putting in a review out of spite. The ladies need a way to protect themselves from such allegations if not true. If it is true then they need to think about how they will market themselves for their own future. Plus I believe that if you willing to put that the lady offered BBFS. Then you had better be ready to live with the consequences of EVERYONE assuming you accepted the offer. If the offer was accepted then your going to have to live with that stigma too. You have already seen the post from the ladies who want to know who is doing BBFS so they can "WEED" them out.
   So with that being out there. There are going to be a lot of guys who are either not going to write the review or won't mention it, and if the ladies are not going to see guys who see ladies who offer it then your not going to see the ladies advertising it. Plus they are more then likely going to ask that if you do review them that you leave the the BBFS out of the review.

Been reading the other Posts - here's an idea which might provide information but avoid the "flaming" problem.

First, only  a lady can designate BBFS or not on her profile.  Second, the only time it can ever be mentioned in any review is if a reviewer says it was promised (by the profile or otherwise) but she refused to deliver.  That way the lady controls the offering and the false reviews are just like other false reviews, instead of a scarlet letter.

In a discussion, if you want to say you do it (even under an alias) fine.  But no one should be able to either accuse (or promote) anyone else for doing it.

Ads.  As long as TER has a good system to make sure that only a provider controls her own ads, I guess so.

Frankly, I still have serious doubts.  BBBJ (particularly CIM) and anal are dangerous (and you can contract Herpes even if everything is covered), but not nearly as dangerous as BBFS and BBA, and I have misgivings about anything that will promote such dangerous practices.

BTW, does anyone really think that having BBFS with a (presumably?) monogamous SO is as dangerous as having BBFS with a provider who does it with a substantial number of men?  What a bullshit argument.

I think it should be now that it’s allowed in their reviews and on the discussion boards.

This way the guys can make an intelligent decision if he wants to see her or not.

DATY may be a thing of the pass I wouldn’t want to go down someone an hour after some guy dropped a load of juice in her pussy.

This is such a huge thread that I didn't have time to read all of the replies, but I believe that an open discussion about BBFS is a good idea.  Suppressing or censoring topics such as this is not going to make the issue disappear or make the practice less risky, so I'm glad that TER has finally allowed this topic to be discussed on the boards.

Personally, I would never engage in BBFS unless I were in a monogamous relationship ...Period!  Unfortunately, our hobby has many risks and I consider BBFS to be the ultimate risk that I'm not willing to take.  If I know that a provider has BBFS on her menu, I would prefer not to see her for obvious reasons.

In regards to the current TER poll, I'm rather surprised that so many voted "Hell yes, I would go right now!" ...it's rather scary, if you think about it.  When I first saw those numbers, I was ready to run back to safe haven of the legal Nevada brothels to play where all sex acts are protected and the ladies are tested weekly for STDs ...LOL

On the subject of allowing BBFS to be mentioned in reviews and indicating in the providers profiles whether this service is offered, I also see this as a double-edged sword.  As a hobbyist, I would like to be an informed consumer, however I can see where an abusive customer could use this against a provider.  So, does the disclosure of BBFS in reviews/profiles outweigh the potential for abuse?  I really dunno to be honest.  For now, the best thing I can do for myself as a hobbyist is to play safe.

With the backlash that has been spreading on this board about BBFS. How many ladies do you think are really going to click yes on the "Provides BBFS"? Just curious. While you may attract a certain crowd of hobbyist your going to maybe push even more away. What kind of crowd is she going to attract? The ones who are more likely to takes risks? Reducing her own safety! Or will it stay the same because there ARE clients who will cover up no matter what she offers.

in the bathroom before he came in I didnt watch him put it on Its called being stupid and trusting
He was seeing me on real regular basis real reg. he for the most part wanted doggie

there are two sides of the envelope and i think that although TER started out as a way to keep the hobbyist safe and informed that it would be good if it ould work both ways.

discussion permits people to manage their risks on the basis of open information, which is what is supposed to happen in a marketplace.

while backchannel sources can be helpful, they can also (in my experience) misdirect and exacerbate problems.

i prefer an open marketplace as free as possible of "insider trading".

I think discussion about it on the boards is a good thing, if a lady wants to add it to her ad more power to her.  I just am not overly keen on reviews with mention of BBFS because there are far to many fake and retaliatory reviews made that it would become utter chaos.  

Alot of ladies have already canceled memberships and started to move away from this board because of the alias reviews, and that # is likely to grow significantly if BBFS reviews are allowed.  I can just see it now, ladies asking to have their profiles taken down because of inaccurate reviews TER might not delete.  

What happens the 1st time the lady who doesn't offer BBFS gets a review changed to offering it, she is going to get a ton of boneheads who think she now is offering that service because of a review she might not even be aware of.  What if this guy decides to hurt her when she refuses, or take it anyway and rapes her.  Indirectly TER would be responsible for that, for allowing a review.

If this is a done deal and is going to happen, then at the very least don't allow a reviewer to post a review containing BBFS if he is posting with an alias.  It might also be a good deal to message and ask the provider if she has had any issues with guests recently to find out if it is retaliatory.

To be honest I just see this becoming a HUGE Cluster FUCK that might cause the end of this board.  Kinda like it here so I would hate to see it all end, Sage

hope that the poll results are not truly indicative of public sentiment. The possibility of ballot tampering, e.g. multiple votes from individuals who wish to skew results is real. I cannot believe that so many hobbyists care so little about their safety as to risk an STD. Lets face it, not all STDs are curable with a shot of penicillin.

Lets hope that the level headed men keep steady on their course of using protection. Otherwise the flu won't be the virus people will worry about. And there is no vaccine or shot that offers protection.

On a another note, while less serious, how would hobbyists appreciate a call telling them they are going to be a daddy? It does not matter how the baby was conceived, you could be on the hook for a long time for child support. Remember that she alone can make the decision as to the course of her pregnancy

People complain when they get something from a blow job.

If a client or provider want to be safe, then they will play safe.

The only downside I see to accepting bbfs in ter is the same thing that happened when gfe became the fad.  Girls doing it will get more business and girls not doing it will feel pressured to do it.

I think its slightly more risky than dfk, bbbj, and p2p. Its not a death sentance.  There will be a higher rate of STD transmission, but it will not be an epidemic. Civie sex would have shown it if that were the case.

Too scared to play all the way, fine play it safe, but don't look down on others who accept the risks and want to enjoy sex in their own way.

For me, I like to be safe and make a connection and gain trust before putting myself at risk. I don't begrudge anyone who thinks differently if that means they want bbfs cream pies upon meeting someone for the first time, or only allow a hj  with a glove. To each their own.

I would not support any process where a girl can't say any act be it bbbj or bbfs didn't happen and have a review pulled.

If BBFS is active,

1) some providers might not see hobbyists who enjoy BBFS (or vice versa).
2) the supply would fall apart two sides; BBFS-specialized providers vs. covered.
3) someone could make BBFS_TER.
4) healthcare biz would be booming.

:~ :~

I have been reading many of the comments in this thread and taking into account the points raised. On balance, I think it would be better to allow the term in discussion, reviews, and even ads. So far as I know, there is no legal difference and therefore no greater jeopardy.

Some ladies will want to get the word out that they offer it, and some will appreciate the clarity of having it known to be off limits. Will everyone be truthful? Of course not. However, but there is already a fair amount of fiction in ads and reviews now, and the Board provides a mechanism to correct factual mistakes (a virtue of making it a searchable -- and correctable -- category). Smears are possible in so many other ways already (e.g., faked pictures, much older than advertized, total ripoff), that I don't think this will add too much scope. In any case, only the heavy weight of many more countervailing reviews can really set things straight.

For the men, I think transparency is also good regardless of how they feel about the practice. If you are grossed out by the idea or think that a lady providing it is already in a too-high-risk category even for protected sex, you are forewarned. If you are ready to run out to get some, this lets you know where and gives you the information you need not to pester other ladies who don't offer it by asking. Any lady who does it only with one special client would presumably have the good sense to let him know that and ask him to keep it out of any reviews.

go to your fucking wife, girlfriend or elsewhere for it!

This hobby got way to out of hand. If girls don't start checking some fellas and stop caring about the last buck, GFE (bbbj daty etc) wouldn't even of been surfaced how it did and the 4 letters BBFS would never even been a acronym.. ill move to massages and just a HJ ending and ask how they like that BBFS, fuckers!

This BBFS shit boils my nerves,

Yes let the Gents post reviews so i can blacklist every one i can.

all a guy has to do is write his regular reviews, then keep one alias for his BBFS reviews.

Providers will have no way of using that info to help screen out BBFS hobbyists.


HH

it could potentially cause safety issues for those of us who don't offer this but may be subject to a fake review

So after reading, one question comes to mind, do y'all consider it better if the guy is asking for bbfs rather than than provider offering bbfs? Does that make it a safer situation?

I am not sure where I stand on the issue. I think people that engage in BBFS outside of a committed monogamous relationship are being very stupid. I doubt anyone, even those that chose to partake will argue that is isn't stupid. Also, it does happen as everyone is stupid at some level and do things that are very unwise.

I decided I will list some pros and cons as I see it on this issue.

PROS:

1, It will allow those that are stupid in this way to find each other.

2. It will help guys that want nothing to do with BBFS avoid those providers that provide that service. It will do the same for the ladies but to a much lesser extent as not everyone reviews, not everyone gives out their TER handle that does review, and alias reviews will enable guys to hide BBFS reviews.

3. It will bring BBFS out of the shadows and allow for honest discussion.

4. It will increase TER revenue.

Cons:

1. Fake reviewers will now have a terrible weapon. Ladies have no control of reviews, and other then delisting themselves has no sure ways of dealing with them. A fake review or even a YMMV review. will cause a lady no end of problems. She will get clients demanding BBFS. If a guy feels slighted it could lead to bad situations for a lady. There is just too many fake reviews out there.

2. Some providers will have their profiles delisted because of reason one. This is not good.

3. As BBFS becomes more visible providers will be pressured to preform that act. Like BBBJ's and DFK became more visible they became more common. Even if TER does not make BBFS the gold standard for a "10" many hobbyists will. This in my opinion is not good.

4. As BBFS becomes more common so will STD's in our community. Community health risks are one of the reasons anti-prostitution use to justify keeping the hobby illegal among consenting adults.

5. Public acknowledgement of BBFS could bring additional LE attention as BBFS could be considered a heath risk by officials.

I honestly don't know where I stand. It is not a move I would make, but I do see some positives. I also see many pitfalls. Even though TER is not endorsing it, making it public will increase the pressure on the ladies to provide it. This is my biggest concern. I guess I an leaning against this new policy about BBFS.

This will turn in to a legal issue when some provider shares her disease with others who are unaware of her condition.Not good.

because if someone has AIDS and take their cocktails of pills and live much longer lives then fuck it, let's all just throw the condoms out the window! Whoohooooo! Most STDs can be cured so screw us all getting tested on a regular basis to protect ourselves and each other. Lol that is CRAZY!  Regardless of how long you can live, noone wants AIDS. It is irrisponsible to think that way. I hope this doesn't truely express your views, otherwise you wouldn't post under an alias.

 You know, regardless of what people are doing here on the boards, I just worry about myself and I take care of myself. I don't want any STDS including AIDS. I don't want something so small as a parking ticket, I sure a hell don't want to catch anything which would mean a world of trouble and problems.  

 This is the problem with people today. Not everyone but many are taking things for granted, and not seeing things as how important they are. Everyone just wants to brush it off and act like oh well, no biggie.

 What I was trying to say above and got lost LOL, regardless of what others do on here, that is THEIR choice, I don't judge anyone. It doesn't mean that they are a bad person for offering it or partaking in it, but just be smart and safe! It is NOT worth the pain, headache and possible legal problems that can come from BBFS. And don't be fooled, no matter how many years, months or weeks you have been seeing the provider or client, you don't REALLY know what is going on inside that body.

 We should be able to talk about here on the boards. I mean everyone is so open about talking about CIM, BBBJ and anal, really why not BBFS! It shouldn't be so easy though for someone to mention that a provider does it in a review if she doesn't offer BBFS. There are many mean spirited people on here.  So maybe there should be protocol that before THAT gets posted someone does there research. I would never go so far to try and ruin some ladys' rep, but there are always "that" person. Oy VEY!

Happy Holidays EVERYONE

When a lady engages in, what she knows is a dangerous practice, she is not likely to concern herself with routine testing.  She probably does not know if she has any STDs.  Its plain and simple.... So a court of law will be hard pressed to convict her of anything lest they convict any sexually active person who sees multiple partners without a condom.

Imagine coming home and having that conversation with your wife that you have caught an STtD from a provider and she must also be tested.  Or, if you are single, imagine your doctor telling you that you have contracted HIV, must now take antivirals, and stand the chance of contracting full blown aids.  What then when you meet a lady you want to spend your life with?

AIDS is no longer considered the "gay" disease it once was.  It has not gone away!  Its just that its not talked about as much because so much else is going on in the world (European financial crisis) and our own high unemployment.  Articles about our own US Navy announcing possible layoffs, Wallstreet layoffs, home foreclosures and Americans struggling to make ends draw more attention.  Hell, the winners of DWTS, Kim Kardashian's wedding and reopening the investigation into the death of an American Film Icon - Natalie Wood gets more attention than AIDS reporting... Lulling Americans to believe that the problem has gone away or is not much of a threat.   YET IN OUR NATION's CAPITAL, the city with the highest percentage of individuals living with HIV or AIDS, the Department of Motor Vehicles now offers free AIDS Testing, along with its other driver services.  The problem is not and will not go away.

The other risk to hobbyists is that "congratulations, you are going to be a daddy and I am keeping the baby" call.  Remember that it matters little in what context a child is conceived, just that it has your DNA.  Try going home to your family and having that talk.  Also pull out your wallet and count on 18 plus years of child support. The provider can go to court and have every man she has had unprotected sex with (during the period when she would have conceived) be required to undergo a blood test.  And if you are fortunate enough to be a high worth individual, 20% of your salary can fund her retirement.

Each of us knows the risks.  Hopefully we are all adults and let common sense guide our decision making .

Please see TER's review guidelines. Guideline 15 states, "We consider all reviews to be fictional stories that are posted by TER solely for entertainment purposes". I agree with the guidelines and also consider the reviews to be fictional stories. For the record, my reviews are fictional stories. Now, on to the discussion!

I am puzzled as to what is the issue. Fugly stated, "Tomorrow admin will be posting on the Gen board regarding allowing the discussion of BBFS on the boards". If, phrased as a question, the issue is, "Whether the discussion of BBFS should be allowed on the boards"; then what is the answer? I'm uninterested in the answer because this is a discussion of BBFS. However, let us say the issue is, "Whether BBFS and CFS fictions should be accommodated on the TER website". My answer is yes, the TER website should accommodate BBFS and CFS fiction. Whether a person is a client or provider, fiction is fiction. Whether you are a client or provider, if you decide to meet someone based the fictional stories, then I suspect "Your mileage may vary". I suggest TER provide an area where providers (agents or independents) may post their fiction, that is, the services they fantasize about providing a client.  

If TER accommodates BBFS and CFS fiction, then:

1. It may help people interested in full service (CSF or BBFS) to find or avoid each other.  

3. It may motivate people to write fictional stories of BBFS or CFS fantasies.

4. It may decrease or increase TER revenue.

5. It may help people use or abuse this accommodation.

Those are my "predictions" as opposed to “pros or cons”.

Not trying to be a wise ass but I am sure that you have married clients or clients with SO's or just clients with Gfs. i doubt if any of them use protection while with their SO's. There is no way to tell how many of THEIR spouses, Gf's, and SO's are going out on THEM and practicing unsafe sex. Even if you see a client that Does BBFS you should STILL be safe as long as you CFS. Right? If you disagree with me please let me know why. Thanks

Greedy girls do this, they are not regulated by the Escort Comission of Disease Control that the morons who buy it think exists. Also the greed does not stop at preganancy or blackmail, careful where you leave your cum, its not safe, practical or hot. Do you think an escort WONT get preggers? Isnt THAT ALONE enough not to take the risk?

Historically, the majority of providers I have seen that have offered BBFS have not advertised that up front in the USA.  It's happened in the room.  Or if I knew in advance it was because of a review.  I also know that in many cases it's a YMMV situation even where it is an upsell feature.  

So, I am all for this option being listed in reviews AND ads.  I just don't expect half of those who do offer it to list it as an option.

Where do providers post ads on the TER website? Might you be referring to the posts on the regional ad boards?

I'll assume the issue is: Whether a provider should be allowed to indicate BBFS in her ad on the TER board? If yes, then should reviewers be allowed to mentioned the service in a review?

Yes, I believe a provider should be allowed to indicate BBFS in her ads on the TER board. And, yes, If she mentions BBFS in her ad, then a reviewer should be allowed to mentioned it in a review.

Like my other post I suffered 2 unwanted pregnancies from an asshole who like to slice condoms. After being told Girly dont play that way, E.H should burn in HEll. He is still out there!!

Much like ALL your posts HH. If you READ a post before commenting , this might save you some time and spare the rest of us having to weed through the endless shit that comes out of your stupid mouth.

Very well put Chloe (standing up applauding)!  It's very refreshing to know that there are responsible, educated, & professional providers who value their health & the health of their clients.

Kudos!

The only way I would engage in BBFS with a provider is if we both had a full spectrum STD test recently and could provide each other with proof of the results. That's basically how it's done in the porn industry from what I understand, and I would be comfortable with that.

Now, that would require a lot of preparation. I'd have to schedule testing well in advance of the appointment. To be totally sure I'm clean, I would have to abstain from sex for an extended period of time before taking the test so that certain diseases, should I have them, could be detected. Plus there is the cost of the test, which can be quite expensive depending on insurance and where you get them at. I'm sure the provider would expect me to pay for her test as well if she doesn't do this all the time. Plus she'd have to abstain for a period of time too, that would cut into her business big time.

After all that, you know she'll NCNS! LOL!

Anyways, guess I'm trying to show that if you wanted to have BBFS responsibly and safely (as safe as possible) it would require more effort than it's worth. Way too much risk otherwise in terms of disease, paternity, who infected who, etc...

For the record, I am a huge fan of BBBJ and generally only see women who allow CIM and NQNS. I understand there is a level of risk there as well. However, I don't think it's nearly as dangerous as BBFS. I consider BBFS to be exponentially more dangerous than BBBJ.

As for TER's policy change, which from what I understand will permit discussing BBFS on the boards and as part of escort reviews, possibly including a "She allows BBFS" flag on her profile which could be searchable, here are my opinions:

1. It will draw attention from the news media and politicians. The state of California has been on the verge of requiring the porn industry to wear condoms in all scenes for a long time now. Every time there's an outbreak this gets brought back up for discussion. BBFS = potential for state intervention = LE = no more fun. The media won't report this as "Thoughtful escort website opening discussion about dangers of unprotected sex", it be more like "Dangerous escort website encouraging unprotected sex among members." Sorry, I don't want TER or the hobby in general being reported in the news. Let's stay out of the limelight folks.

2. Fake reviews of providers claiming BBFS took place. Those providers (99.9%+) who do not and will never offer it will have to spend more time asking admins/mods to remove fake reviews claiming they do offer it. Potential clients see the review before it's pulled and think twice about seeing her. Guys who want BBFS see the review and request an appointment with false expectations.

3. Providers will have to scour a potential client's review history to see if he ever saw another provider who allowed BBFS. They would have to investigate the spider-web of reviews: he saw a provider who saw a client who saw a provider who allowed BBFS two years ago...should I see him? Maybe this would help providers make more informed discussions. But I think the admins are condoning BBFS by going this route. I dunno....

4. Following from above, if the idea is to make BBFS more open and allow the community to identify those members who partake in it, there is a problem in that no one is forced to write a review. If I see a provider who openly allows BBFS, I can choose to not write a review and not let anyone know I saw her. If I book time with a non-BBFS provider, she has no way of knowing what I've been up to if I don't use the first girl as a reference. Guess the point I'm making here is that you can't force openness in this community, it's inherently discrete. There is more benefit to the BBFS client/provider to keeping things UTR than making their activities known.

5. I'm very skeptical about the survey on the front page. I seriously don't believe there is that much enthusiasm among clients for BBFS. For the record I voted "Doubtful, but maybe", because that seemed closest to my opinion above: "No, but maybe under very controlled conditions."

I don't support the admins's decision and I don't think the fact that it's taking place anyway warrants allowing it to be part of reviews.

HB69

Wait, what?  If someone says CFS or 'put the cover one' to imply BBFS then what do they say if they actually wear a rubber?  "She took the cover off..."?

I'm clueless as to how TER might pull it off, however, it would be "nice" for TER to provide "a way for hobbyists who WANT BBFS to find providers who will supply it" I know some providers selectively provide it (YMMV) and they prefer this matter be kept private; I hope TER considers both interests.