I didn't want to hijack my own thread but after reading all the responses, I see an opportunity to redefine the issue.
DJ's original post was a major riff against perhaps an individual provider or a small sub-category or providers. It was filled with less-than-compassionate verbiage for what is clearly a desperate, unhappy life. Sort of similar to the aging football star who should have retired, instead keeps playing risking life & limb because he simply doesn't have any other way to put food on his table.
However, the (type of) provider, while pitiful, is also someone to fear & loathe as she uses personal information entrusted to her to threaten her customers. She's breaking the code and should be called out for it.
However, DJ never personally attacked any individual. I felt it was an emotional response of disgust towards a provider(s) who is taking advantage and blackmailing unsuspecting hobbyists (obviously those who don't subscribe here).
The language was profane but, come on now! We all engage in that all day long. And I've heard the 'C' word come out of the mouths of more women than men. I appreciate the fact that GND has allowed all of us to go on and on and ... about this subject w/o moderation.
So, in closing, I feel posts like DJ's make the board better not worse. It wasn't a personal attack against anyone and it honestly protrayed a guy's point of view. I certainly wouldn't be offended if I read a similar rant from a provider who used similar language to portray her feelings about a certain (sub-class of) hobbyist.
Let it rip. Express your opinions and your outrage. Just don't take it personally (unless you're mentioned by name of course) and don't demand that someone be moderated because you disagree with their opinion and how they choose to express it.
And thank you Girl Next Door for allowing this to play out... Refreshing, in a pungent sort of was... wasn't it?
They are the control freaks!
and for the most part, folks don't take issue with how the opinions are expressed.
But as is obvious, Ben's expression was vulgar, vitriolic and self-indulgent. The result is that his point -- whatever it was -- was totally eclipsed by the reaction to the way he said it.
There is a wide gulf between being excessively "politically correct" and saying things in a way that convey the point convincingly or even dramatically. Ben's post generated a lot of heat, but no light.
My point was clearly made! That post Was a transplant from a completely different topic,,, It had little to do with my actual point... Which was the narrow-mindedness for the self-appointed PC guards of this board!
I watch as one person queefs out a high and might proclaimation of collective-etequette and the rest fall in line to sniff it!
I just injected a thought that flew in the face of what was deemed "tolerant" and fanned the flames... There was no "hidden message" to some provider in my post... You're over-thinking,,, again!
If "vulgar, vitriolic and self-indulgent" upset your sensibilities; I suggest 'Readers Digest'. At least there; all you need to tolerate is the "self indulgent".
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 9:04:52 AM
If we are "hookers" why aren't the men johns? Any particular reason you chose to insult only half the board rather than the entire board?
I was merely playing with "alliteration".
Hobbyist, Provider, SP, and Courtesan don't share the first consonant alphabetical letter.
"al·lit·er·a·tion (n.)
The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in “on scrolls of silver snowy sentences” (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.
alliteration
n : use of the same consonant at the beginning of each stressed syllable in a line of verse; "around the rock the ragged rascal ran"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alliteration "
Perhaps I should have said; "This is a forum of and for Satyrs & Strumpets"
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 10:47:49 AM
Well heck, in that case why not hobbyist and harlot?
I've always loved that word. Its so underrated 
Oooh......or how about John and Jezebel?
Or Tom (as in Tom Dick and Harry of course) and Tart?
DOH.......brain cramp!
The problem with your assessment is that you are wrong. DJ's hate-filled rant was directed at one lady, and if you take the time to read threads posted within the last few days, you'll figure out who it was directed to.
To characterize this lovely, witty, sexy lady in the manner that DJ did is wildly inaccurate to put it kindly, or a mark of his own self loathing to put it more bluntly.
I hate to say this, but there really are men who enter this hobby because they do in fact have to pay women to like them. This isn't their hobby, its the only thing they have, and in realizing that, it pisses them off. Hence, you get men like DJ. DJ isn't pissed at an experience he actually had. By his own admission he likes them as young as he can find them (Gee, sounds almost like pedophilia to me). No, boys like DJ are pissed that we more mature ladies don't gracefully exit stage left when we get too old and toothless to keep going - at age 29.
I find it amusing as hell though that so many of his reviews are piss poor because he keeps chasing a tight body with nothing but air between the ears. No wonder he's pissed off. So basically he's pissed that the older ladies have the sort of experience he wants, but somehow its our fault that our tits don't sit as high as they did when we were 20, and you can't bounce a quarter on our tummies anymore. At the same time, its the 20-something's fault if she isn't turned on by a fat balding pot bellied loser, and doesn't have enough experience (read that cynicism I guess) to cover it up and Ooh and Ahh at the appropriate moments.
Thank God though, that men like him are in the minority. Or at least, I meet very few of them. I don't see many of them in real life, but I get a good laugh out of them here on the boards.
This is exactly how DJ's original post should have been responded to. Some facts, some logic to support her point of view and a few great putdowns. Now we get to see the other side of the hobby coin and it isn't always pretty.
I appreciate the lack of hysterics and calls for immediate moderation and beheading. I'd rather see this board be a little uncivilized & rowdy rather than boring. Skillful mods can skim the mold w/o throwing out the whole loaf.
Feel free to flame me for shitty anologies. Being a masochist, I can take it.
I really want to know who Dirty Jesus was directing his post at! You have me VERY curious! I thought I new Dirty Jesus rather well.... but I guess I don't know him well enough for him to devulge who he was so angry at! lol!
If you can't man-up (or what ever it is you do) PLEASE PM me! or have a neutral party PM me! or ask GND to PM me or something!
It might help me council Dirty Jesus on his anger issues, because he's never confided in me who this woman is!
I know he had a few muses to work from (several actually, but a few were more central) but it can't be the same person, since all the things he drew from them were TRUE!
And I wasn't able to figure it out by your clue about posts in the past few days... I hadn't been following board until Dirty Jesus arrived... and to the best of my knowledge, neither was Dirty Jesus...(unless he was logging in while I was sleeping!)
...As far as the rest of you post... You've got some good scratch for an older cat... I was amused!
Can we add; "Must focus on ONE gripe/issue at a time while engaged in debate"?
No; scratch the last rule.
We'll NEVER get a woman to consent to all three conditions.
If you prefer a nastier, meaner forum, try the Minnesota board or the Reviewers Only board, rather than trying to beat everyone here into submission. There's something for everyone here on TER.
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 3:13:08 PM
Please don't put words in my mouth.. or any other orifice. First off, I don't very often 'seize' the floor as I start very few threads. I don't see the words 'meaner' or 'nastier' in any of my posts on this subject.
In the interests of, and I hate myself for using the expression, 'keeping it real' and keeping this board from getting too Wonder Bread-like, I suggested that all points of view & expression be permitted within limits. Limits being defined by no personal attacks - challenges being perfectly acceptable though - and nothing advocating something reprehensible, i.e. pedophilia or the advocacy of violence.
I realize that moderating a board such as this one is onerous. There are so many posts and so many judgement calls to make. Being from SanFran, I really don't want to post on the TC Board. Being that my local board is dormant, this board is really the only appropriate board I have to express myself. And I would truly hate to see this board, because of over-moderation, become irrelevant. So, again, I appreciate your judicious use of your powers.
in bed together?
It's way more fun!
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 3:10:50 PM
I go to a movie to enjoy the fantasy and the story (I'm too old to enjoy slasher flicks anymore). I read a book for entertainment, not to increase my level of stress.
More to the subject, I pay EXTRA for the GFE, a big part of that consists of acting civil, smiling, being friendly, outgoing and polite (on both sides). In short, I enjoy even the illusion of civility, caring and mutual respect.
To me, it's worth something. If I wanted to practice throwing knives at people's psyches, I'd put in more hours at work.
I suggest that, on top of Providers Only and Reviewers Only boards, TER add Flaming Assholes and Lilly Assed White Knights areas. As a result everyone who wants to practice needling each other with Shock and Awe wit may practice, with dripping sarcasm, on anyone interested in stopping in, and all the wussy idealists interested in pleasant, useless tripe can share our thoughts, feelings and dreams.
I suspect it wouldn't catch on, as the Assholes only enjoy attacking the idealists, not each other.
The GD board could run just fine without any bullies. You'd have mushy pap and tripe, to be sure, but you'd get many folks willing to share it.
You want to encourage outrage? Against who? Many fine minds will move on to friendlier space and leave the predators to sit, waiting for someone to stop in, express a view, and be destroyed by the few remaining "regulars"; the last survivors of an uninviting discussion board.
You said; too PC. Really? Or do you really mean too polite? The idea of labeling the visitors to THIS board of Political Correctness suggests you've used an inappropriate term to justify a dislike for people who are naturally friendly or nice. I can wave my dick in the air with the best of them. I could say "fuck you" to everyone I pass while I walk down the street... it wouldn't be hard to do. I prefer.. I CHOOSE... to nod and smile as I pass by. It costs me nothing. It may make someone's day. It may even frustrate some bully who wanted me to say "fuck you".
I suppose there's room for both in an open forum. Me.... I enjoy the fantasy of sexual interaction. Some prefer to enjoy the domination aspect. I don't really mind if you want to prove how stupid someone is via your whip like wit - but we should all try to avoid making it look like masturbation.
A.S.
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 7:56:17 PM
You've got the perfect smooth, non-confrontational demeanor for it.... And I'll bet you've got a face for radio...
.... Personally, I think there's room at the table for both of us, and Jesus too... ;>
(BTW, in case you didn't know, when a page gets 25 threads on it,,, a NEW page is started! There no lack for space at TER!)
-- Modified on 8/15/2006 10:12:52 PM
-- Modified on 8/16/2006 12:13:30 AM
I think one thing that becomes clear to me when I read thorugh this thread is that collectivley we are all not going to come to the table with the same definition of 'Flaming Assholes and Lilly Assed White Knights' as you suggest.
As an example, you cite 'In short, I enjoy even the illusion of civility, caring and mutual respect.' There will be many who will say that those words epitomize the White Knight population. Yet clearly you find distinction in the term. I'm not saying you are right or wrong but one man's civiltiy views are another's white knight label.
Likewise the Flaming Assholes. Clearly there are those who feel that this thread is representative of such behavior. But there are also many who feel it was flat-out honest expression.
So there will always be oppossing views and in the end that is good. We can cite our views and others can choose to agree, disagree or move on to the next thread.
-- Modified on 8/16/2006 7:32:54 AM