to be totally in love with my SO?   She is still the best lover I have been with and I want to stay with her.

But I get these itches...

I just thought I would post this to see , as some of the guys are so negative about their civvy relationships.  I think if I was tired of her I would move on instead of staying, but I don't know as I've never been there.

I am not trying to be judgemental- just inquiring cuz I'd like to know...

Let the flames begin!

-- Modified on 10/28/2003 3:51:51 PM

do you even realize what you're saying?  LOL   ... not to flame you or anything [cough] ... but THINK ABOUT IT!


"[my SO] is the best lover I have been with and I want to stay with her"


but what? ... you get this urge to nail more and more hot chicks? ... and WHY ?  .... cuz you get BORED with your "best lover" SO!


dude, it's time for a [ding dong] "Moment of Clarity" ... don't over-compensate, rationalize and/or apologize ... it's your god-given right to sperminate and (sup)plant your seed as far and wide as possible ... survival of our species demands it ... think Johnny (Cum-Lately?) Appleseed!


reality-checkingly yours,
singleton (from the single man's pulpit)

I agree with the original poster.  My SO is GREAT, I just like variety.  What I find is less than her but still interesting.

well- if you have read other posts from me, you might recall that I DO NOT go in for FS on the whole (yeah yuck it up).  I am one of those who like a massage and then a little fun.

My SO gave up on massaging me a long time ago cuz there was never enough and she wasn't particularly good at it.  And anyway when I am with her, I like to do all the work.  But sometimes I like to be the center of attention...

I remember being a little put out when a provider went for FS, and I was really up for a bj.  She was confused, thinking I ought to be happy with the "upgrade"- I was not!

I often like what singleton has to say...BUT...he is just so off base here it is not funny.  Variety is the spice of life....it can also make the time with your SO so much better...you are NOT the only one...we are at least two...certainly many more.

Yet I too like to see what it is like to be with another woman. It sort of gives me a little feel of the world outside our wonderful home. She is a great cook too, yet we go out to eat on occasion. Our home is where I want to live, but we both love going on vacation for a week or two. A little variety adds spice to ones life.

Those itches are called crabs and can usually be handled with a little blue ointment.

I'm quite happy they do!

reference to something similar about a week ago in a thread below. I was responding to some escort who questioned if we should send our SO to blowjob school. I basically told her that the school should be for the vast majority of commercial companions as well as wives, since I have only found, literally, two or three escorts ever who could suck cock equal to or better than my wife. I tried to link that response, don't know if I was successful.

My wife and I have had a don't ask, don't tell policy for well over 30 years. We both believe for this very narrow area, ignorance is bliss. Like me, I am pretty sure that she gets an itch every now and again as well. I readily admit that my wanting to have variety is not a very mature trait. But this flaw has been a part of me for as long as I have been having sex.  

Neither my wife or I are masochists. If we didn't desire each other sexually, we would probably end our marriage. Both of us are fairly successful in our repective careers, so money is definitely not an issue. The kids are all grown and out of the house so there is no impediment there. If for whatever reason we were no longer able to communicate with one another, resulting in seldom sex, what exactly would be the purpose of staying together?

Fortunately like you, my wife is both my best friend and best lover. In other words, she is my ATF.

On a side note in reference to another of your recent posts. Whether with my wife or when I do find that occasional rare paid lady who can really suck a mean cock, the experience can be enhanced when sharing a Tommy C. collectible.

Constantly thinking of your SO and how happy she makes you feel.  How the sight of her puts that forgotten boyish smile on your face.  How you feel when you get home after a rough day and seeing your SO, realizing that everything will be okay.  

DAMN your kind SULLY.  How I envy it all.

As skepticle and cynical two failed marriages have made me I have to admit that it was during those committed relationships that I achieved the most and was the most content.

  Enough of your gloating SULLY; You're pissing me off
   
    Cm.

Nah... I'm with you, love my wife, love variety and just enough money and freedom to be dangerous.  Although by TER standards I'm a neophyte, two times a year tops, but it is a great "hobby".  I love Chris Rock's line that men are only as faithful as their options allow.

It is one thing to have a "sexless" marraige (although, as I posted on that, it takes two to make that an institution) and hobby, or to be in a dissolving marraige and get it somewhere else.

However, I wonder how fat and happy all you gentlemen who are saying that you are so happily married and love your wife so much and wouldn't lose her for the world yet love to fuck nubile pros for money would be if your wives found out about your "carniverous lunar activity" (or solar, for you day trippers).  How many of you would be on the street, or have your little paradise put on serious rocks if your wives knew ONE SIMPLE TRUTH?  

I hid my hobbying from my GF when we were breaking up, so I am not innocent.  However, when things were as good as Sully (or others) describe them, to think that "Hey, life is great, but it can be a little greater if I just cheat and lie and throw my marital vows out the window, because my wife will never know"...you are a bunch of sad mother fuckers.  Just think how it would make your wives, who think you are the best thing in their lives (they wouldn't be fucking you so well if they didn't), feel if they knew you were having your fantasies fulfilled by sticking your dicks in other women, while they remain faithful for you.  Maybe a couple of those women have been unfaithful, but be honest, men, it is mostly men who cheat.

If you all want to go on about how great your wives are, why the hell don't you treat them in kind and be faithful to them, and accept that being "without" the ultimate is meant to help you grow, and that by doing what you are doing, when it would break most of your marraiges apart, you are being immature, selfish, and unenlightened.  

If you can be honest enough to tell your wives what you are doing, and they still want to stay with you, then by all means, you are lucky and life is good.  However, with your dishonesty, you can't make these comments and not sound like spoiled children.  If you believe that it is the right of the male to be married and fuck around, have the courage of your convictions and then go for it.  Otherwise, think of the fact that even though you wouldn't treat your wife any better if you weren't fucking around (and, oftentimes, you would treat her worse), it would mean the world to this woman who has GIVEN YOU HER FUCKING LIFE
and who is doing a good job of fucking your brains out if you could say that she was the only one and actually mean it.

Would you all be happy if your wives were out fucking guys all the time (think about it...strange men with their dicks in your wife, even with a condom, although not necessarily when it was in her mouth...some other guys dick in your sweet wife's mouth) and having great sex with them (even if, in Sully's case, it only meant his wife getting her pussy licked by some other man... think about it, bud...unless he just HAD to stick his dick in her), and then coming home to you and not telling you about it?  How would you feel if you just found out one day?

Personal growth, people...if you are that happy with your marraige, you have something that many people spend all their lives looking for, struggling for, crying for.  Yet it is something that you take for granted so much that you do something that you know if your wife found out, you would have your relationship forever impacted by it.  You may think that life is great and that you are all getting away with the greatest thing in the world, and you all may not have any problem looking at yourself in the mirror in the morning.  Just be aware of how big of a lie you are perpetrating, and don't kid yourself that there is nothing wrong with it.  

If any of the men who have supported this post HAVE told their wives that they are fucking other women, then you are real men, and I support you wholeheartedly.  The rest you have some growing up to do.




-- Modified on 10/29/2003 12:16:43 AM

why are you risking the relationship you have with her to scratch your itch?  Are your love relationship and your itch equally significant in your head?  Which predominates?  Do you only scratch your itch when you are sure you can get away with it?  Is the risk of destroying what you have part of the excitment and pleasure?  Would you get off on an affair with a civilian in the same way?  Why did you choose a provider vs. a civilain (assuming you don't do both)?

I would like to be able to straighten out these issues in my own mind and I hope you can amplify your thoughts a little more..  

-- Modified on 10/29/2003 6:54:59 AM

Unfortunately, you may be right to a certain degree. Surely some of us do not wish to jepordize our primary relationship. It could be because of the children, our jobs, the house and often, each other. Our women have their own reasons why they stay as well. But the reasons for continuing in the hobby are many-fold. Sometimes it is not a good situation at home. Sometimes it is the thrill of the hunt. Often it is the need for variety or even something we are not getting at home. Sometimes it is fufill an empty void we all feel in ourselves from time to time. A few, like me, are just experience junkies and nothing is finer in life than making love to a lovely lady. Call it primoridal, but it is a significant driving force in our lives that is hard to ignore. I personally think that it adds to one's life, not detract. However, it is a very delicate balance. Can I justify it? No. But I throughly enjoy it.

If I recall correctly, you are not married, but have a GF. Once you are married, then you may understand the full implications of what I am saying. So please don't be harsh nor quick to judgment on us.

-- Modified on 10/29/2003 8:49:03 AM

-- Modified on 10/29/2003 9:13:16 AM

I think about this shit all the time.   But like AA Milne's king who "only wants a bit of butter for my bread", I sometimes need a little tlc that my SO is not into giving me.   And the occasional bbbjtc... But that;s why I keep harping on the qulaity of the massage I get.  It's the key, cuz sex is not what I am looking for.

I stumbled apon this site while looking for legit massage.  I had been getting turned on when getting legit massages for years and thought how great it would be if that was addressed too...

Then through you all, I discover that this has been going on all the time!  So I took the plunge...

What blew me way was the number of guys who seemed to get ALL their sex with providers!  Or preferred providers to civvies.   all cool , just suprising to me.  So I ask questions..

I know that a lot of people dont consider oral activity sex (e.g. Clinton ... I didn't have sex with that woman...).  The dictionary agrees with you, by the way, if that is how you feel.    If that is the case, are you concerned about risking the sex for BJs?   If you see a risk there, the BJs must be very significant to you and you must miss them a lot from your SO.

A significant amount of my sex comes from providers.  This is a transatory situation for me.

therein lies the problem.

She doesn't do anything. No rubbing, no touching, no kissing. Just a whole lotta bitchin'.

I stay for the convenience, and the money savings over a divorce. She goes her way (which I still think she's a lesbian) and I go mine (I am definitely a lesbian).

As long as we stay discreet, we're fine.

I really hope you are funnin' with me and not really pissed- that would suck

no judging from me, but i am curious, most the married happily guys here, seem to be dancing around the .......what if your wife or so was doing the same?? im sure they could use same reasons givin by all the guys here, just wondering if the ole shoe was on the other foot what the guys reactions would be...if i was in that boat , dont believe i would accept any excuse from my so. , im single so if i had a so, that i cared for im pretty sure i wouldnt be here anyways.
 love to hear some comments

You are certainly allowed to call others hypocrites and hurl insults.  However, please allow me to point out a few facts concerning how the real world works - this is a lesson for YOUR "personal growth" (first, please check your naivete at the door):

1) Most people in this world cannot handle the truth.  

2) Most people prefer safety and security (at least the perception of it) to reality.  Note anything associated with Homeland Security and air travel in its current state.

3) Women, much more than men, are prone to the above.

I would bet that nearly every hobbyist who loves his SO (married or not) does not love a provider (lust maybe, but not love).  

Not all of hobbyists are liars and hypocrites.  Just because one don't fully disclose all his/her activities doesn't make them a liar or hypocrite.

Finally, let me ask those of you out there in spaceymc's court if the following scenario may not exist in the real world.  A woman acknowledges that her SO probably would like to experience certain physical pleasures before he dies.  However, she has never, and is not about to, accommodate such desires.  Now, maybe if he would such fufillment elsewhere....  Of course, she would NEVER approve such activity (and doesn't even want to think about it).  But most women understand that flesh-and-blood men have different needs than women.  So, in effect, this is an unwritten "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.  Sounds like real life to me....

As the old saying goes

women need a reason to have sex - men just need a place

I have no desire to talk to other women. Often, the most attractive women are the least interesting.  Of course I want to fuck em all though.

Now, for my wife to be fuckin some other guy it would require that she care for him and that they have a relationship.  I would be most hurt about the relationship - and not thrilled about the fucking part.  

At any rate, who would I be to criticize her.  I'm ashamed of what I do and wish I was more mature - but I am never a hypocrit (at least after I think about the situation).

Some of the posts have been pretty harsh and I agree with their principles.  However, to preach to others is easy.  I would like to know if these guys are married (for how long) and if so how they maintain their fidelity - this would be more helpful (if that is their intention).

ive been  a couple long term  IS "insignifcant others"....dont know if thats a term or not  :>)  and enjoyed the company of other woman.
  guess if i ever find my SO , ill find out what you guys are dealing with.

J, you sound more miserable than I am lol. In all seriousness ,I would never have even considered this hobby if I had married the one that I let get away...not once but twice. How dumb am I ?

Dude- No Worries mate- you're a guy!  We always think about the road not taken...

I have an absolutely terrific wife that I love more and more every single day.  She's my best friend.  We've been through thick and thin together and I'd go through it all again to be with her.

Why see providers then?  The once a month or sometimes less that we have sex just isn't enough.  AND, it's that variety thing, especially with the younger ladies.  They fulfill something that my wife doesn't.  With a good provider I'm the center of attention.  I wish I could say that I get just as turned on by my wife as by a cute petite 24yo blonde provider, but 21 years and a few extra pounds have taken their effect.  I will however add that my wife is very very pretty for her age.

Am I a hypocrite?  Umm, sorta.  In my vows I promised to be faithful and if seeing providers is breaking that then I'm a hypocrite.  An affair would clearly be unfaithful.  Massage w/ HJ?  Provider?  Don't know.  We do though have a psuedo don't ask don't tell policy.  I travel overseas occasionally and she knows that I've occasionally visited providers while over there (nothing compares to Germany's FKK's and the various RLD's all over Europe are amazingly cool) and while she'd certainly prefer that I not do it, she has a 'guys will be guys' attitude about it when I travel.

If she sat me down one night, looked in my eye's, and told me to not see providers anymore - I'd find a way to not see providers ever again.  I hope we never have that conversation

and I promised myself that I would not remarry until and unless I found a woman who I honestly, within myself, felt I could be faithful to.  I am still looking.

I understand how difficult it is as a man being faithful, and that men are not given much recognion that it completely goes against his basic instincts and is something that he should be congradulated on.  Modern society likes to portray that men who cheat are weak, when that isn't true...they are just "normal".  It has always been normal for men to want other women, no matter how strong the relationship.  It IS primordial.  The point is that men who DON'T cheat are strong, and have overcome something that isn't necessary anymore, no matter how strong the urge.    

In a different age, when matrons were not encouraged to like sex much (except for courtesans), it was one thing for a man in a secure relationship to seek sex outside the marraige.  However, nowadays, this isn't the case.  We are talking about men who have great relationships with their wives.  sully said that his wife is his ATF.  I know that when I felt that way about my ex-wife and my ex-girlfriend, the urge to fuck other women was omseing that I could overcome with a little effort, and the desire to be faithful to my partner and not hide things from her made me want to work harder and accomplish this.  This is what I am referring to.  It is so easy to fuck around nowadays, as long as you have the money, and I can't help but feel that it does little to encourage men to grow and choose a path of honesty, respect, and integrity in their marraige.  It doesn't make them horrible men...but I knew I was a bastard when I was fucking another woman when my GF and I were breaking up.  I just encourage no illusions.  

The "real world" is whatever world one decides to exist in, as long as they can support themself in it.  In a marraige, the "real world" consists of two people.

As for most people not being able to handle the truth, this is most certainly the case, but that does not mean it should be accepted and condoned.

If women are so preferential to security and safety over all else, I could assume that we should take your view one step further and have married hobbyist all tell their wives that they are "flesh and blood" men and are seeing providers.  The women are just there for the security anyway, right?

I have several good friends who are hobbyists, and am one myself, dude.  Just because married ones are being dishonest (or, as you might say, not forthcoming) does not make them bad men, or that they are not capable of personal growth in many areas.  However, I fail to see what the point is in saying that most love their wives but not their providers.  Is that supposed to make it okay?

OMG, that bit about "Because I didn't actually TELL a lie, I am not really lying"...that is something I expect to hear from kids.  It is natural for children to use this excuse... however, it is childish for adults to use it.  It is rationalization, pure and simple.  You are being hypocritical to your wedding vows...VOWS, mind you...by being unfaithful repeatedly, and although your wife does not make you submit an itemized accounting of your time spent daily, if she thinks you are at work all day, or slept alone on that business trip, or were out with the guys that night, just because you didn't tell her anything about the night doesn't mean you aren't lying.  Give me a break.  Ask a woman if that is lying or not.  Try telling your daughter who just found out that her husband has been seeing providers that he didn't really lie to her because she never asked the right question.

Dude, my naivete is an asset in my book.  I would rather be naive than jaded any day.  I have never been with a woman like the one you describe, who would be so averse to a man's desires (other than fucking other women).  There are plenty of open minded, "flesh and blood" civilian women out there.  Almost every civilian woman I have been involved with was not only willing but occasionally enthusiastic to do anything I wanted in bed...not necessarilty every time I wanted, but enough to make me want to be there.  I can only assume that you haven't had experienced this.  Admittedly, I haven't found my "perfect" one yet, but I have gotten damn close, and the more I grow myself, the closer I come to finding her.  The point for me is that the more a woman gives to me, the more that I want to give to her, and there is nothing that most women (who aren't "security above all else" types who don't know how to give to a "flesh and blood" man) want more than fidelity.  Ask for yourself.

I was not strong enough to give complete fidelity to my women in the past when things were on the way out, but when they were good, I was happy to do this.  Sure, I thought about fucking other women all the time, but I figured it was a small price to pay for geting so much of what I wanted.  This is why I say that some personal growth is necessary on with men that are keeping this doule life a secret.  Your whole scenario of "don't ask, don't tell" is fine...IF it is a stated, up front policy.  However, I would guess it isn't the policy with almost 99% of the married men in TER. They are simply keeping it hidden.  All I am saying is that if you are going to do so, be honest about the fact that you are betraying your wife and the ideals your marriage is founded on, even if it is in secret.  

You talk about "real life" being full of this obfuscation and hidden truths.  So often in our modern world, this is the case.  However, love and integrity mean enough to me that I will not accept this into my marraige, and I would rather be an idealist and try to live my dream in this area than think that it is my fate to go through life hiding the truth. Eventually, you start to believe your own lies, and I refuse to do this.

I don't need any lessons in personal growth, thank you.  Personal growth is about realizing that there are some things in the world that could make you happy for a brief while that are worth sacrificing because it is the right thing to do, and because you value the other person enough to give them something that means the world to them, even if it means that you give up something.  

Personal growth is not about the length of your penis...it is about the length of your soul.

Exactly my position.  My wife simply has no sexual interest in trying the things I want to with a provider, maybe we've just grown apart in this aspect.  For me it's simply a matter of a desire to do other things sexually.

but I still crave variety. It is so basic, so primoridal and a haunting craving. I simply love mature first growth Bordeaux, be it a Lafite, Latour, Mouton, Haut Brion, Margaux or Petrus, for example. However, I still welcome and throughly enjoy a young California Cabernet from more recent vintages as well. The juxposition between the subtle elegance & smoothness of maturity and the raw power of fresh, forward fruity flavors is wonderful and needs to be experienced in one's life.

is because I CAN!!!

The other day I had a 10 performance.  Maybe the third one in my hobbying.  I don't think my wife ever game a 10 and is unlikely to give me one the rest of my life.   very uninterested in sex after two kids and very conventional.  LOts of problems.  Anyway, I love her a lot and would be very sad to get a divorce.  But sex is life!!!