This was on craigslist

the bigger the horse's ass.

r bear11, I appreciate your posting this for me very much.  I agree that we all need to redouble (and retriple) our efforts to be considerate to, and sensitive to, our wives, and give them more love and attention.

 I don't claim at all to be blameless.  But I do feel the article is a little simplistic and even overly moralistic.  

Life is complicated.  I assure you (and anyone else interested) that I'm doing everything I can to remain responsible to my wife, and do everything I can to be worthy of becoming her sexual partner.  But I can't go so far as to say that I feel it's going to work.  And, if it's not, I do feel I need other avenues.  

That's not something to brag about...but I do not believe it's something to feel guilty or defensive about either.  The article suggests that anything extra-marital is inherently wrong and going to produce guilt.  A lot of people believe that.  But I don't.  

Will be very interested to see how others feel about this Craigslist post...especially if you agree with it more than I do.

To add to it.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/phi/122608407.html

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There is much truth in that link...as a woman who was married for over 20 years and in a monogamus albeit sexless marriage (he didnt cheat either) there are reasons the fire goes out and many of them are in that post.

It sounds like he has a morality fetish that needs teasing.  Probably he's a minister in his day job.  He seems to know what's happening in every marriage on earth.

"It's getting to the point where I can't even read those stupid personal ads anymore, not even for fun."

Big loss that would be.  

-- Modified on 8/23/2006 1:17:55 PM

The best insults and lies always have just enough truth...

when someone takes that "I know more than you" tone you just know you are dealing with an asshole.

Every decent idea in that rant could have been dealt with in a more balanced fashion.

The real agenda was to rag on all the horny guys in CL looking for a little fun.

How does that help?

She's right about most of that. As usual, though, she's only telling one side of the story. Women do have ways of driving away their husbands and the smart ones keep that in check enough to not come across as a nagging witch.

I disagree with point 5. Children are often *not* what HE wanted as much as what SHE wanted. SHE wanted the status symbol of children to show off to all her friends and her parents, etc. Laying all the guilt for children on the man is dishonest in that regard. It's the 21st Century. If she doesn't want a baby, nobody is allowed to stop her, not even her husband.

But she is right about affairs, whether they are with civvies or providers. Most of the time, it will be found out and it will be hell to pay.

Funny, but the only couple I was ever close to that got a divorce was because SHE cheated on HIM. She was a school teacher and it was with one of her students (not me).

This person made some interesting points.

Responsibility is the biggest.

I would guess that if a thousand people were to read her posting, there would be a thousand interpretations of what she was saying.

I am sure mine is personal to me.

I get it. Men who hobby are all assholes and their wives are all innocent victims. I think I'm gonna puke.

There were NO valid points made there because who ever wrote that, did it from a different frame of reference. Our circumstances are ALL different, and our reasons for hobbying are all different.

Yes we can make excuses for doing it, but so what !! I have never felt one iota of guilt for what I do. I am married to the center of the universe. The sun rises and sets on my wifes ass and she knows it. And if you don't think so, she will tell you to go fuck yourself. Since that's not possible for me, I go fuck someone else.

The part I really took offense to was the total disrespect that person showed for the ladies we see. The best people I've ever met in my life are the women I see. I have made some real friendships with them, whereas my wife has no friends. Poor baby !! Maybe it's because I'm such an asshole.

So to the person that composed that writing, get counseling, get fucked, and get over it !!!

They bet $1,000 that their suggested tactics would change things - it didn't - over and over again, it didn't.  I wonder if the author of the article can Paypal the money to me.

One time, after one of our arguments/discussions about sex or lack thereof, or lack of prospects thereof, the wife said to me (sensing how frustrated I was): "What are you going to do about it, I'm all you have to work with."  

I haven't brought up the topic since.

You guys can dish it out but you can't take it. Neener, neener, neener. Just kidding. I don't agree with everything, but there is some truth in some of it. I think both men and women are at fault for not making a marriage work, but I get sick and tired of only hearing about women getting fat, not wanting sex anymore, etc.  Maybe some husbands are fat and unappealing, too, but they just don't want to hear it.

When a woman falls out of love with a man or thinks he's an idiot, guess what? Sex is usually the first thing to go. Sorry, but it's the truth. Men, on the other hand, generally can still have sex even if they don't like someone. Not all, but most. There's good and bad in every marriage, and why is it always the woman's fault? Women get tired of men, too, and their stupidity. Sorry, but I need some chocolate.

Hugs,
Ciara

MODIFIED FOR FRIGGIN' SPELLING, DANG IT!
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Layed back and easy going. I also happen to know that you have a great sense of humor too. If I lived in Arizona we would be good friends.

Ciara, you're experienced with being scorched by an argument you really have nothing to do with?  Like: "you know how women are...."  You could try to make yourself an exception, but even then, you still get burned?    

I'm not even a husband, but I read "you" so many times in that tirade, and realized I had a dick  too and closed ranks with my fellow dicksters.  Even if I had nothing else in common with them.    

Of course in failing marriages, husbands many times have their own blind spots, stupidities, and sometimes downright onery behaviors.  

However, I have sympathy for some guys who want badly to keep their marriage intact when they desire sex-- by seeing providers clandestinely. I also have sympathy for people, male and female, whose marriage is dead, but for some external reason (like medical insurance!) feel they can't get divorced.   So, I see many exceptions in what she says.  

Also, I think it's obvious that marriages don't last forever.  Just like the human body, they fail because every human contrivance ever made is mortal.  I realize that puts my opinion in the minority, but marriages fail because eventually they must.  It's just that sometimes people give out before their marriages do.  

Besides her meanness, there was a fatalism to what she said.  As though she figured out every dysfunction for every marriage, had them catalogued and classified, and as a man, I couldn't escape doing all of them.  Then she ends it with: "see you in hell."  I felt the flames already.

As I said, of course there's some truth to it. She should have written her rebuttals individually to the guys she to which she was referring.  

And I still wonder what fun did she have reading CL to begin with?  Not good clean fun, I'll tell you.

Don't ask me the name of the hormone or whatever it is released by the endocrine system; but when we meet a new partner that hormone is pumping big-time. Six months later that hormone is all but non-existent and it is up to compatibility, friendship, shared interests or threat of fiscal loss through community property to keep the union together.

Monogamy is a noble aspiration
Polygamy is a natural instinct  

For every man, who is dipping his wick and entangled into the sheets of passion, there is a woman taking the pounding and loving it, whether professional or civie, makes no matter.

I have always laughed at these types of articles written by one gender or the other. They always leave out the other party of the two person entanglement. So I call it:

A DRAW!!!!

but that made me want her even more!

So it was doubly disappointing to be shunned.  I think she thought the weight would disuade me, and got angry when it didn't

As I said before, each situation is unique, and I agree there's always enough blame to go around.

My main complaint of the CL poster was not so much the content, but the officious way it was put out there.

My parents used to live in Mesa. But dad died and I moved mom back north, so now I never get down there anymore.

Maybe I'll see you up here sometime. Come in January and keep me warm.

I said I was just kidding about the jabbing, but it's interesting how quickly the guys jumped on the bandwagon when a beraged female says something (like Kathy of 48th St. says, which is crude but hilarious). Have some humor about it and don't take it so personally. How many times have we (women) been bashed on this board, and the guys come forward and say, "Hey, don't worry about it. It's not about you?" Lots. Usually I ignore it, but sometimes I come to the defense. This person obviously has her own point and it wasn't even posted on this board. A man posted it on TER. Also, if you look at my post, I say both the man and woman are usually at fault in a marriage, and YES men get fat too and women lose their attraction to them. It's human nature to change, and unfortunately sometimes people cannot see past the physical and work things out.

Hugs,
Ciara

and it's sad that your wife still didn't want you after she gained weight. Perhaps she felt ugly, and perhaps it wasn't that she purposely tried to gain weight so you wouldn't want her. Why do you feel that's why she gained weight? No woman wants to pack on pounds. There had to be an underlying reason for it. Did she tell you the reason? Was she overeating to compensate for something else that was wrong in her life?  Food can be a crutch, especially if a person isn't working or feels unworthy. So, I'm curious:  What was her reason for not wanting sex?  Was it getting older (some women do lose interest)? Was it lack of hormones? Was it that she wasn't attracted to you anymore?  We always hear the complaints but not the answers. I am curious.

Hugs,
ciara

-- Modified on 8/24/2006 10:20:20 AM

Ciara has a fantastic sense of humor, loves animals (especially bunnies) and is as beautiful inside as out.

Thank You

If I had good answers, then maybe I'd still be married and doing some work right now instead of goofing off on this boards, but I digress..

My wife was fairly trim when I met her (through a personals ad, btw) and she said it was because she just got dumped by a boy friend after a fairly serious relationship and that she doesn't eat when she is depressed.

We got married in two years and she seemed happy enough.

Fortunately I started earning some big bucks so she could quit her job in retailing (which she liked but hated the stress and hours and low pay) and we took lots of long vacations, built a big house in the country (She is a NYC [The Bronx] refugee and always wanted a big house in the country), shopped to her heart's content, etc.

But, she is basically an unhappy person.  Riches do not make such a person happy.

I don't think she ever liked me that much. (She doesn't like herself either, truth be told.) She liked all I had to offer her, and sex with her seemed great at first, but after the first kid (two years into the marriage) sex went straight south.

The most telling thing for me is that she never liked my sense of humor, and now I realize that is something I should have seen as a danger sign.

A good question for me is:  "Why did I marry her?"

Sorry to say that the only answer I have is that I had never met a woman who really seemed to like me and I thought that if I didn't grab this one I'd never find another.

She tried all types of medications, hormones, etc., so I don't think that was it.

I think we were just not to be.

A sad tale made no less sordid by its oft retelling.

But here I am, loving my new life, so all's well...and all that.

I really appreciate your honesty on this subject. You are certainly a stand-up guy and it sounds like you have the heart of a child. I'm so sorry that she wasn't right for you, but I'm glad you're feeling better. I'll let you in on a little secret since you were so open with me:

I once had a husband. Unfortunately, the sex did end (mostly on my part) because of all the things I found out about him and started to disrespect him. I still thought he was a good person (albeit only 20 years old) but I did not love him. The sex he wanted only made me feel guilty about not loving him. I know, weird eh?  Anyway, I didn't want to see him suffer and I knew I had a high sex drive so I realized something was wrong(and I was only 18 so I didn't know much about relationships anyway), so I separated from him and made sure his friends and family were by his side through the horrible divorce.  Like I said, he did things to me that I couldn't forget, but that doesn't mean that I was a mean person and wanted the same for him. He basically got everything in the divorce because I was already making good money at 20. You see guys: Some women actually get taken to the cleaners. Go ahead and laugh!

He and I said our goodbyes (and fortunately without having children to sadden). I have never remarried but have had a few boyfriends (in the past) that I've been in love with and probably would have married if they had asked me. Unfortunately, when I was ready to get married and have children there wasn't anyone left to marry.  Now, I'm very happy being independent and have other single lady friends who feel the same way. That's not to say I won't ever fall in love again, but I'm certainly not searching for it, nor do I feel I need companionship to be a crutch for insecurity. If I meet my soul mate it is because we are best friends and really share a lot in common.

Hugs & kisses baby,
Ciara

it allows us, people who don't have any real connection with each other, to talk freely and honestly with each other.
To get to know each other in a second hand way, with the hope(?) that maybe some day we will get to meet and become friends.

That is how it is with you and me.
We have talked, we have met, we are going to meet again, and we are friends.

Thank you for you openness and honesty.

See you soon, counting the days.

Just my opinion...
B

I keep it in a jar on my desk.  

(Don't say you weren't warned about my sense of humor.)

A bear and a bunny were in the woods taking a dump, when the bear inquired of the bunny,

"Do you have a problem with shit sticking to your fur."

The bunny responded,"Not really."

So the bear grabbed the bunny and wiped his ass!!

My post was an excuse on why her post affected me. I read your post carefully, I know it was meant lightly.  I know you're right, Ci Ci, and I agreed with you.  The problem was I didn't know how to come back with a humorous angle on it.  A mood... so I answered the serious part of your message.  And fell flat like a guy reading King Lear at a comedy club.  

Maybe she should take that message to open mike at a comedy club and test out her chops?    

With Kathy-48, I would laugh, but like "Natural Born Killers" I can't tell if it was meant to be funny.  And, yes, I do believe now that she's probably a sock-puppet.  

That's nothing bad; I've always thought sock-puppets were cute, and I've got nothing against equal rights for sock-puppets.  Hell, I used to date a sock-puppet.  A complete mis-match, though.  The sex... wasn't good.  Another one of my fatally flawed relationships.  

On another tact, I don't think the CL thing was written by a woman, I think some do-gooder guy wrote it and wanted to sound like a woman.

My reason for saying this is that the whole thing drips with sanctimony.  

Men can be santimonious, but a women will use invective.

Invective is harsh, but it's honest and comes at you straight unlike the curve ball that sanctimony gets you with

I can deal with invective (I was married.

Invective was a friend of mine, you sir, are no invective.