I am throwing several points out here and I am welcoming responses on all levels.... so here goes...

I was struck with the congruity at the time (about one week ago) of two news broadcasts re victoria secrets being asked to, and thus recalling a swimsuit showing budda on the breast, and then the next day, I received a catalog in the mail with a tshirt inside saying KISS ALL FROGS.  ONE MAY BE YOUR PRINCE.  

why did that strike me?

A lady on the la board (linkmeister assistance needed here) had been speaking of finding her own clientele and why must we all kiss so many frogs

Still,  so sometimes I feel like THE frog.  The frog who maybe got lucky if her guy didn't cancel on her...

But what do you think?  It's okay to be a frog...just try to not ACT like a frog, and maybe we can all have hope to higher aspirations?  

Frogs are good luck, btw....


gosh, just throwing out some random streams of consciousness, is that okay?

Oh, and the Gospel, according to VSC.  "Kiss all Frogs.  One may be your prince."

Have they been reading about ancient times when Priestesses were  required to "do" all men as part of their cultural appreciation?  Oh I suppose I should put that question into the company, but must get the right party since their automated voicemail doesn't include a proper department for that category, and the ladies on the phone are basically  fashion consultants, not history majors.

So I pose the question here to those headier than I...I'm very curious....not angry, not agitated.  Just very interested in the responses particularly of those more educated on this than I.




-- Modified on 4/28/2004 8:20:38 PM

"A lady on the la board (linkmeister assistance needed here)
had been speaking of finding her own clientele and why must we all kiss so many frogs"

I think this is the thread to which you refer...


-- Modified on 4/28/2004 9:53:08 PM

I had a date a few weeks ago with a provider I adore...and this is a good example of why I feel the way I do about her.  We were seated at the bar, people-watching, which is something we both like to do.  She'd pointed out a couple ladies she thought were attractive and asked my opinion, and I replied with, "yes, but out of my league."  My lady narrowed her eyes at me, and looked around the room some more until she spotted a couple college-age girls looking bored at a nearby stand-up table.  The guy they were with was in his late thirties and was clearly not paying any attention to them...carrying on a conversation with a guy at the next table.

My date got a twinkle in her eye and said, "Let's buy them a drink.  We're not going to, but I bet we could pick them up."  She approached the two girls and told them that we'd like to buy them a drink, and they perked right up.  Someone was paying them some attention!  While they moved to the bar to join us, my favorite lady excused herself to go to the ladies' room...leaving me to carry the conversation until she returned.  

Now, I am 42 and not physically what most women in San Diego look for (athletic), and the two girls were pretty cute.  Sweaty palm time, usually.

I went for it.  Nothing to lose...I KNEW I was getting laid that night (and laid very well, I might add) so I relaxed and got the conversation rolling.  By the time my lady returned, the two girls and I were having a great time.  She leaned over to me at one point and said, "the blonde is into you."  It sure seemed like it to me!  All the signs were there.

When we left the bar, my lovely lady took my hand and said, "NOW do you believe me?  You ARE a sexy man!"

Since then, women react to me differently...

THAT's priceless.

Yoda

I found this paper interesting, and possibly relevent to your stream of consciousness...

Some excerpts (see link for entire paper):

Returning to Metzgar for a moment, she says: "in the days of the Quedishtu every woman served the divine as Holy Prostitute, often for as long as a year."  This is a report the Greek historian Herodotus made about the Babylonians...

Metzgar asserts that temple prostitutes provided a doorway to the divine and softened the natural aggression of men. There's a lot of male aggression around today. She concludes, "And so women must all become Holy Prostitutes again."

Yep, you got it on all counts above and below. Linkmeister, you are there.  Please pm me.  



-- Modified on 4/28/2004 10:17:40 PM

May I flatter myself first off, by saying that I have followed your posts and have admired you from afar?  Please forgive me as the hour is getting late (agitation strikes in many forms and at various hours)

I love what transpired in your conversation here on "my" thread.  I feel that your date was a great choice, she had your interests at heart.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Enhancing each other's life/lives?

I used to do track.  (Before the whole boob thingy lol) I have the bodybuilder sprinter lower body.  My point here is that when we did track we handed off the baton...it was about the teamwork.  Purely. Then,  I got into the corporate world and the word teamwork became proseletytled. OMG  I just looked into my Oxford and  i actually said that right, lol.


oops. doorbell ringing....





-- Modified on 4/28/2004 10:40:41 PM

Why can a guy be best friends with a guy whose got a pot belly, or is losing his hair or wasn't born with movie star looks?  Because we don't care-- sexual attraction isn't an issue with our same-sex friends.  With our friends, we're only interested in their personality, sense of humor, shared intersts etc.

Ditto the women.  We all know that if it wasn't for girlfriends, there are a lot of unattactive women who would have NO friends.  Yet, their girlfriends don't mind at all if she's got a big butt, or cankles.  Again, they enjoy her for who she is, not who she does or doesn't look like.

Now, providers are in the sexual attraction business, but they also need to remember that it's not about them being sexually attracted to clients, but rather vice versa.  As a result, the rules of "same-sex" friends (not boyfriends) apply to providers, just as in the examples above.  

A provider needs to look past her own personal feelings of sexual attaction and remember the reason she is in business- it's not for her to find a boyfriend or to be sexually attracted to her clients, but for them to be attracted to her.  She needs to be able to relate to their personality and other aspects of their character, just as if sexual attraction wasn't an issue- because with a client, it shouldn't be.

After all, she's not dating us to be potential partners, lovers, husbands or fathers of her child.  So why is she using that set of criteria to evaluate her clients?  Under those rules, most the men she meets WILL be "frogs" to her, because we all know how difficult it is to achieve true sexual attraction and chemistry in our dating life- it's a one-in-a-hundred proposition.  

The age-old story about a princess kissing a frog is a valuable lesson most of us don't really take to heart.  It's just another way of saying "don't judge a book by its cover."  Both are predicated on the fact that beyond our average exterior appearances, most of us ARE good and interesting people deep down.  The proof is most of us DO have friends who feel that way about us and enjoy our company- but again, only because the rules of sexual attraction are set aside.  

I think the provider on the LA Board sounds like she wants to use use her business as a dating service where she not only gets to choose whom she dates, but they pay her for the privlege.  It just doesn't work that way in this buisness.  If a girl wants to reject guys based on appearance, there are plenty of venues in her outside life for her to do so.  Most women are experts at this and shouldn't need me to tell them how to do it.  But again, that's not why she's a provider and she better realize that soon if she wants to stay in buisness.

 








-- Modified on 4/29/2004 12:08:19 PM

Our so-called advanced society treats sex in a more naive, simplistic and repressed manner than most of the societies from the past that we view as less sophistcated than our own.  

We all know the causes of this- remnants of our religious and legal hypocricy that remain intractable a century after other aspects of our society have moved past them.   As a result, heterosexual males and the women who provide them with care are the last sexually persecuted groups.

I posted years ago under a different alias that commercial sex workers serve many valuable roles in a society.  Yet, ours is one of the few cultures that denegrates them, rather than recognizes their value.   I remember referring to them as "society's safety valve" back then, and I still feel the same way, but I would greatly expand the list of benefits they provide.  

We know that providers operate on many different levels- from the basic attenuation of male aggression (as mentioned in the link), to offering a psychological or emotional oasis to stress and other problems of modern life. But they do far more as well, and the reasons are as varied as the men who seek their company.  For example, while conventional wisdom might be that they break-up marriages, I'd bet they've saved a dozen for every one that they've broken-up (and I doubt they were behind even the one breakup).  

We would be a far healthier and saner society if we would get our heads out of the 19th century and get out of the way of men and women who both need and benefit from each other's company.  Life isn't fair or perfect, yet these ladies go a long way toward helping men deal with its rough edges.  Sometimes the value of being accepted, both physically and emotionally, is the highest type of healing (both sexual and psychological) possible.

Whether you say all women need to be "sacred prostitues" like the article,  the fact is we DO need more, not less prostitution.  And we need it to be de-criminalized so that the women who provide this valuable service benefit as much as the men who see them.  

Society needs to stop defining this natural activity in terms of victims, exploitation and crime- all the things one must believe if we are to perpetuate the myths about prostitution that support the religious and legal hypocricy.  

The fact is, our culture is no longer simple and black and white.  We live in a complex world that needs to accomodate a wide variety of people and lifestyles.  We don't all get married and have wives and 2.3 children.  Responsible men with jobs, who happen to be single, shouldn't have to live in bars (and drive home under the influence) just to satisfy their need to be with a woman.  Someday society will see that it benefits more than it realizes from prostitution and the stability it provides-  but sadly, that day is still far off.


-- Modified on 4/30/2004 10:25:34 AM

There are plenty of guys that want the same thing as I do.  No promises, no questions, no stalking.  

Fun and intimacy for a date, nothing else.

I find them on the escort advertisements.  I'm not looking for anything but a few moments in time.  It's perfect for me.

So, some of us are not in business.  And some of us prefer to choose someone that we know we'll "click" with.

xoxo
Elise

Because you can get comittment free sex anywhere from any guy, for FREE- we're surprisingly accommodating when it comes to that.

If you're charging money, you're in business, whatever you choose to call it.

Thanks for asking.

Again, I'm seeking likeminded guys.  (Obviously not you Cogito Ergo DATY)  I happen to be a very giving lady.  

Also, there's no worry about law enforcement as I don't do anything criminal, like charging for my time without an escort license, or solicitation for sex.

I'm not looking for an accomodating fuck.  I'm seeking a certain type of man, and am especially concerned about discretion both ways.  Also, a man wouldn't have to worry about getting me pregnant, for instance~something I've found many men appreciate.

I don't ask a guy's marital, or Significant Other status, and I expect the guy not to ask a bunch of personal questions of me.

I've taken TONS of responsibility that most dating girls wouldn't take, such as testing MONTHLY as well as taking care of EVERYTHING on the date, and the guy just needs to let me know for certain who he is.  

I pay for the advertising, so, obviously it isn't free for me to date this way.  I enjoy this as much as my dates do, and there is an implied agreement that I'll be the responsible portion of the date, leaving only enjoyment on the man's end.

I'm not looking for whatever you have to offer for free.  

I'm looking for responsible, educated, executive types, that seek the DISCRETION and responsibility that I afford, and that will return the same.

If you could find what you're suggesting, CED, I doubt you would be here in TER land.

Elise [email protected]

Horney Toads, as beautiful as they are, have thorns.  Sometimes they are out sometimes not. Just like people.  Sometimes it requires another to help put away the thorns.  You are eclectic, warm, creative, romantic and emotionally driven.  You follow your heart; sometimes it takes you off a cliff. Sometimes you'd rather have a man simply wrap his arms around you and confort you, other days you would rather rock his (and your) world for hours on end.

Realize that, absent your star-quality hair, makeup, cleavage and health club honed physical form, it's the person who sees past that... the one who sees Felicia Frog, warts, bags under eyes, etc. and all; and nonetheless takes her to the height of extascy with all his desire, lust, passion and warmth... that is the type of person with whom you want to share yourself.  That person may not be wealthy, may not be an Adonis, Apollo or Zeus... Nonetheless, those people will nurture your soul.

As long as the lady and the gentleman have a good time that's all that matters.

But I appreciate your condescension just the same.  

You'll be interested to know that I haven't seen a provider in at least 5 years, and never one from TER.  I feel have moved beyond this scene.  I stick around because the cause is still close to my heart (read my post up above, for example), and I try to help if I can.

I became aware of, and sympathetic to, the plight of commercial sex workers by vitrtue of my six year relationship with a Ph.D. sex therapist and author.  She worked as a provider, and later as a sex surrogate while earning her Ph.D. in psychology.  During tht time, I got very involved in trying to legitimze this activity in any way I could, as well as increase the positive image with the public whenever possible.  

For example, I did a TV show interview with her that discussed CSW and also helped her on a book project.  Most of my posting on TER was four or five years ago, when the site was new (the "early innovator" type of people were much more stimulating than now).  I used a different alias during that period.  

BTW, I also have a Masters degree and am professioinally accomplished over a 30 year career as an executive with four Fortune Global Top 50 firms.  I've been to Europe and Asia 43 times.  But it's nice to know that I'm not worthy in your opinion , and have nothing you'd be interested in.  

You may wish to read the above posts about not judging a book by its cover (ie. kissing frogs).

-- Modified on 4/29/2004 6:24:45 PM

will be discovered sooner or later.  There is just no hidding that princeliness.  A frog adorned in royal robe is in the end still a frog ...

Reearest Felicia, I'm rather proud of my Frog-itude, so I kiss all Princesses. One may be my f

I LOVED your answer, Bachelor Number One.  Thank you!

FiFi

It is always gratifying to hear things couched in such a real, albiet sympathetic way.  Did I say sympathetic?  Yes, sympathetic to being human in a world that compromises us from the start, seemingly leaving us no choice but to do things considered bad or illegal in order to survive.  I particularly appreciate your expression, "society's safety valve" as applies to all this.

And how true that is, for without a safety valve, so much more destruction occurs...I'm not addressing sex addictions here, nor for a quick moment do I even believe that there are not those who partake of this for all the wrong reasons and miss the boat, the life rafts and the little inflatable seabiscuits.

Thanks for a great post....

you are most kind.  I do know we have met in times past, and I have no idea who you are, but I admit you certainly know me.

Hope all is well in your world.

XoXo

 

So true!  We can take turns being frogs....really.  It does seem to work that way....

Sometimes a man patronizes me and I feel like he gave me so much more than I gave him that day in that he also helped me support myself not only financially, but emotionally/spiritually.I think it's just Karma, and it all works out.

Sometimes I patronize, as a client, and I end up making my provider's day.  

Funny how it all works, Actually it's beautiful.

We all just need to find the right matches.

spectrum of mindsets on these boards, sometimes it gets really scary and negative for awhile, but then there are also some pretty awesome people around here ... who can rise above it and elevate the boards again.


Thanks

Oh and one more thing, I really really LIKED the Tshirt.  It struck a chord, only I wasn't quite sure where a girl would wear something like that.  Certainly not around her SO, certainly NOT on the street, in bed alone at night while reading fairy tales?  Oh, maybe if she is alone with her girlfriends at a night club and she was very very horney?  How many fellas would be prone to take her up pronto or at least inquire?

Oh, its good to be a frog, I think.  And good luck, besides.

What WERE the makers of the TShirt thinking I wonder?

Just another way of saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover".

Too many people tend to instantly reject someone as a potential partner just by their looks.

I admit, I am one of those people.

I can afford to do that because I have always found it easy to find a partner (too easy), but I know both men and women who haven't ever been able to find someone still rejecting great people based on looks.

If you are having trouble finding that special person, maybe your criteria is too high or you are not looking beneath the surface.

They figure he must have something going for him.

They also find self convidence (not arrogance) very attractive.

In addition, they find guys who are not desperate for them to be attractive.

Best way to get a hot girl interested in you, flirt with her less attractive friend.

I just went to my favorites list to put in a note on Felicia to remind myself:
Shave mustache (see above thread) - and give her lots of extra snuggles!

Honey, you are INCREDIBLE.

It boggles my mind that some guy hasn't swept you away by now.

Seriously, how stupid can single guys be?