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Re:Thanks for the thoughts
bodhisattva 3617 reads
posted

Jealousy and attachment are a funny thing. The very nature of the way you met could cause insecurity on both parties. I know it has been said a thousand times, but communication is the key to any relationship. (Even if it is with someone for the first time)

For me sharing of oneself is what makes this hobby so much fun. You dont have to travel through the months of BS to get down to what you want. Often a very deep and spiritual relation forms. But as it has been said many time, you must talk openly and honestly or you are more than likely going to end up apart.

How many men would have amazing marriages if they could only ask for what they truly want or even better communicate how they feel. Instead of providers and hobbiest, there would be just lovers.

Bear

zippydoodah4525 reads

Earlier "Bewildered" posted a message about off the clock misunderstandings (http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=62531&boardID=12&page=1). Muffyman had a thread about whether providers prefer regulars (http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=62694&boardID=12&page=1). And iibmon posted about an obsession with a provider (http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=62631&boardID=12&page=1)

I have some blend of these issues. (I will name no names.)

In the past I have favored long-term providers and long dates, ranging from leisurely dinner to a week. Most of the providers have retired and become friends (or gone anonymous), but I have also had my share of misunderstandings over retainers and off-the-clock payments. But I still stay in the game because I enjoy the company.

Recently one well-regarded provider and I started travelling together on multiday trips, and spending significant time just hanging out. She has been in the business over four years and is nearly thirty. At the start, time was compensated, but later on, it was not. The provider would not answer my repeated email queries about donations ahead of time, and would avoid the topic if asked. This is not unusual in my past experience because some of the dates are very nice, we have fun, and sometimes don't even "play"... but at one point an envelope was rejected with a look that usually is reserved for a bouquet of dead flowers.

For long-term providers I usually negotiate a 3 to 6 month retainer, which I feel is fair because I am removing revenue opportunity, especially with these longer trips. In this case, however, retainer offers are ignored and I receive lots of uncomfortable vibes when such topics are brought up.

So I have not been able to compensate over the past few months. On one hand, this wouldn't sound so bad, but oddly it has put me in a very awkward position. Somehow the payment seems essential to my psychological separation between provider and girlfriend "relationship". For one thing, I'm finding it quite difficult reading reviews about her (especially the members section), yet I can't help read them.

Yes, I seem to be getting jealous. A first time event for me. Hell, sometimes I didn't even used to get jealous of my past girlfriends!

Crazy, eh? But I'm guessing this is not that rare. Whether it's stalkers, or ex-boyfriends, or clients who start to think they are boyfriends, I expect popular providers are used to this kind of problem.

So my question: what's the right thing to do? Should I insist on paying? Suggest that I would like a different relationship? Just chill out?

Normally I would just discuss this very openly, but I am somewhat unsure because of the bad reaction to economic discussions. Would this be insulting, I wonder? Am I already in a relationship I'm not even aware of? Has it gone too far to preserve the long-term provider relationship? Do girlfriend relationships ever work with a provider and an ex-client? (Seems unlikely, but what do I know?)

Thanks for any advice.

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ConstantReader3943 reads

... enquiring minds will want a running account!

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sparker3004 reads

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orthodx2421 reads

Tough question which is probably why no one has responded to date. What do you mean by too far.

From what you have said this lady has clearly pulled you out of her client list since she will no longer accept money to be with you.  There is no misunderstanding regarding compensation because she doesn't want compensation.

Therefore you are in a friend-friend relationship.  How close is that relationship.  From her point of view, it would depend on whether she is monogamous with you as a friend.  If she has many other male friends she sleeps with, then I would consider you casual.  If you are the only person she has sex with without charging, then you would need to ask her what that means.

As to reading her reviews the simplistic thing to do is not read them.  I used to have my ATF's name on my favorite provider list but I had to pull it off because it pissed me off everytime I got a private mail that she was having sex with someone else.  I won't insult you my treating them like reviews of your SO's cooking or something like that but you don need to figure out a way to let that go even if it means giving up your VIP membership.

Personally I think every relationship is different.  The odds of you and your friend having a successful relationship are about as good as anyone elses if you want it.  There are plenty of providers who contribute regularly to the boards with SO's or husbands.  There is a general board mentality that providers should not be in nonrevenue situations with clients so I am sure that is the general tenor you will get.  But it is your decision, not the members of the boards so don't let them stampede you into a position you don't want to be in.

But I think the first thing you need to do is talk to your friend.  If you don't want a friend-friend relationship, thne it is time to go.  If you want a freind-friend relationship, then by all means, go for  it, she has certainly given you evry indication she wants one.  And if and when it ends, then plenty of time and money to go find someone else.

Good hunting, you lucky dog

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port00072830 reads

I have to agree with the other posts on this thread, You are in a good spot. Someone you like, spend lots of time with, won't take your money. Sounds good to me.
 Might want to try communicating with her, see where the two of you are heading relationshipwise. Just don't mention the $$.

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greywolf5163 reads

Others may have a different take on this, but after reading everything you've posted I'm left wondering what it is that YOU  want this 'relationship' to be.  

The statements about feeling jealousy when you read her reviews could easily be viewed as you becoming obessed with her, but that seems in conflict with what you've said about wanting to pay in order to prevent confusing a provider with a girlfriend.  It doesn't seem you want a platonic friendship, but it doesn't seem your satisfied with just having her as a fuck-buddy either.  

If I'm right, & that's maybe a big IF, you need to get what you want straight in your own head first, & then talk to her if it's necessary.  But keep in mind what you said yourself about providers possibly having to deal with clients that want to make things more personal than they're comfortable with.

I'm sure there have been bf/gf relationships that have worked out between clients & providers, but I'd guess they're in the minority for a number of reasons...one of those reasons being the guy unable emotionally to deal with the knowledge that she's having sex with other guys, & what you've said about feeling jealousy reading her reviews indicates you'd fall in that category.    

Just my .02---I haven't been in your shoes.

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zippydoodah2085 reads

Your insights were helpful.

Greywolf, you are right, my own head is confused on what I want. In part because I can't figure out what she wants, but your point is taken.

orthodx also hit the nail on the head: much of my confusion comes from my not understanding what it means if she's monogamously not charging, but polyandrously plying her trade. It wasn't in the dating handbook. And I don't think Maxim (or Cosmo!) covers this scenario. ;-)

I also want to avoid getting into the Pretty Woman trap, wherein men are looking to rescue women who aren't asking for that. It is a condescending attitude... and imposing morality... but, hmm... what if it's right this time? ;-)

Great community -- thanks for the assistance. Love to hear the provider POV, but it might be uncomfortable.

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Lauren19723732 reads


  Hello, Lauren in Seattle here. Just felt compelled to respond because reading your words it seems pretty cut-and-dry to me-the fact that it is hard to understand the "meaning" of your friend being personally monagamous, while continuing to be polysexual businesswise. You know what it means, but perhaps have different expectations ("If she _really_ liked me she wouldn't continue to be with other guys, even for money"). I have a feeling that this is what is running through your head, no matter how "irrational" you keep telling yourself it is. I can tell you right now from reading between the lines of your two posts that you would only be comfortable with the "Pretty Woman" scenario, but I can't tell you how that would work out for the two of you-keep us posted! Hope I don't sound too confident in my appraisal, but years of third, second, and first-hand experience in similar scenarios has been eye-opening, and even those who think they won't be jealous are in for a surprise (we're all only human, and feelings aren't always rational). If you are already having jealousies and fantasizing about her quitting her job, then there is no way a relationship can work while she is still providing. Also, even if she does quit and commit to you, do you think that her "past" will haunt you? Would you be able to trust her? Would she be able to trust you? Do you think either of you is ready for a committed and exclusive relationship? (because that is really the only workable option at this point-even if you started paying her again in an attempt to get back to the comfortable status quo, things are irrevocably changed between the two of you and needs to be addressed at some point.

Peace....Lauren

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bodhisattva3618 reads

Jealousy and attachment are a funny thing. The very nature of the way you met could cause insecurity on both parties. I know it has been said a thousand times, but communication is the key to any relationship. (Even if it is with someone for the first time)

For me sharing of oneself is what makes this hobby so much fun. You dont have to travel through the months of BS to get down to what you want. Often a very deep and spiritual relation forms. But as it has been said many time, you must talk openly and honestly or you are more than likely going to end up apart.

How many men would have amazing marriages if they could only ask for what they truly want or even better communicate how they feel. Instead of providers and hobbiest, there would be just lovers.

Bear

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HarryLime4227 reads

You are in an interesting situation.  There aren't a lot of guidelines.  Both of you will have to be inventive, accomodating, and very caring.  That will require a lot of courage.  Everybody here wishes both of you the best.

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