Isn't extortion illegal?
Wouldn't that be lovely, to be able to inform LE that someone is a prostitute AND committing extortion?
Not to mention the damage you could do to someone on the boards if they ever even tried that crap, if she's planning to stay/be in the 'biz.
Yanno I could write for an hour and poke holes in this line of reasoning but frankly I don't have the energy for this battle anymore. Can't we talk about sex or something? And are you one of those "half-empty" types, or what?
Nicole
I know providing personal information for the purpose of screening is a basic part of this business. Its a way for the lady to feel a sense of security concerning the person they may be seeing since in most US communities, the activity is illegal and the justice system is set up to unequally punish the lady. This is a given. But in the process of a client providing personal information, it is assumed that a certain level of discretion be used on the part of the lady.
For example, clients do not expect their personal information to be shared from provider to provider. If a lady ask's another for a reference, I assume the extent of the conversation should be:
1) Yes or No I did see the guy.
2) If yes, he was a good or bad client.
3) If yes, I would or would not recommend him because of .....
As far as the personal information, I would expect that the lady for both her and her client's protection, either destroy his personal info after the encounter or at the very least store it in a secured way so that just anyone can not get access to it.
The reason why I bring this up is because I recently had two friends go through situations where they were being blackmailed. The first situation was a provider was arrested. She knew my friend was a lawyer and she basically said if he did not help her with her legal situation, she would make sure his family knew about their relationship as well as she was going to have her sister go to the press to provide her "black book".
The second situation was a provider's boy friend go a hold of her appointment book. He went through it and was threatening the guys in the book for exposure unless they paid him off after they broke up.
In both situations the line of so called trust was broken. The first was just low. The second was careless. I just don't understand why the information is retained anyway. If its been so long since a lady has seen a guy, and she doesn't remember him, just re-screen him. Once he passes and the appointment has passed, delete the information. That way, if the lady is ever busted, LE can't use that information against her.
Just FYI
For those keeping their data on P.C.'s, deleting data from your P.C. does not remove it from your hard drive. I blew one lady away when I showed her how easy it was for me to get that information back that she thought she deleted. The only way to get info off your hard drive is to reformat your hard drive.
A local computer shop reformatted my hard drive and installed a different operating system when my machine was in for repair. It seems that the tech had read the wrong work order. All my data was gone when I brought it home and booted it up. I sent the drive over to ontrack and them managed to retrieve 53,816 files.
The original guy practically pours his heart out about a situation and you focus on is the last FYI info? LOL Classic! Please don't think I'm slamming you and the info about the hard drive is valuable feedback.
But to the real matter at hand. The original guy had it right on for the reason for providing that info. It is used for the safety and comfort level of the lady. As a client you have the right to either provide the info or not see the lady. A rule of thumb is make no assumptions as to what a stranger will do with your personal info. If you don't feel cool about giving out certain aspects of your life, then don't do it and move on, but also don't badger the lady info her dropping her screening for she will not see you anyway for you just sent up red flags to her.
Credit card companies, utility companies, department stores, etc. sell your personal infomation all the time. How do you think those pain in the butt tele-marketers get your phone number and bother you when you are just sitting down to eat. I think those folks have a radar to detect the absolute wrong time to call. You never gave these people your info but they got a hold of it anyway. same deal with the Spam we all get in e-mail.
In either situation, the passing of personal information is not appreciated at all. I too argee that if a lady asks another for info about a client, the reply should be at a high level, stick to the basic facts, and leave it at that. I too don't see a reason why a lady would hold on to such information down the road.
I had a situation where a lady I saw once called me on my phone months later to see if I wanted the see her again. WTF! Not that the session with her was good or bad but the nature of it was not that she should be calling me up for repeat business. To say I was pissed would be an understatement but I was cool because I didn't think such an act was a rational one and there was no telling what she would do next.
I believe that discretion should be upheld by both parties. Guys have a responsibility to realize the situation for what it is and not to turn into a stalker. I don't believe the lady's are heartless and are really attentive when you pour your heart out, but also realize that that level of caring extends to how long you've paid for. Just because you had a GFE experience doesn't mean she IS your girl friend.
As for the lady's, recognize regardless of what your client tells you, that 90% of them are married or in some sort of relationship. His risk may not be the same as your's but all the same it is a risk that may alter his life. As a decent human being you have a trust to protect concerning being discrete. I can not speak for any other guy but I would suspect part of the reason why they choose to see a provider instead of starting an affair is that they do not want to form the emotional bond with another person that will take them from their family. I'm not saying this is a perfect world but it is the world we live in.
But a "quick format," which is what the guy probably did, is definitely not enough.
A complete low-level format, initializing the entire drive to zeroes is definitely enough.
Depends what you mean by "format." Microsoft gives you several options...
Michael
I cannot even imagine giving accurate personal info to a provider.
Just as providers set up a screen persona to protect their actual identities, hobbyists would be wise to do the same. If a provider insists on company, address, etc. it is a simple matter to create a screen persona for yourself that will satisfy those requirements while maintaining a firewall between you and "you". If you don't know how to do this yourself, it would be worth hiring a P.I. to assist you (just tell them you are selling a company, and want to make inquiries without tipping off your employees, so you need a cover identity... a not too uncommon service).
It would be idiotic to furnish any provider or agency with actual personal contact info, unless you are in a position where it absolutely does not matter if the world knows you hobby. As wonderful as many providers are, I would certainly never trust them beyond provision of a service.
I await the grilling flames of all the providers, but really, think of it as a condom for your name.
O.
Currently on page 3 of the Los Angeles Discussion Board there is a thread called "Hobbyist Review Board" which relates directly to this discussion. Apparently there is a provider only discussion board on TBD that was supposedly created for the providers to post about guys who physically abused them. Apparently it has been used to rate any hobbyist as to his performance etc., using his real name, phone number, e-mail address, etc. At least this is was has happened in the Los Angeles area. If I was better with the computer I would link you to the thread.
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 1:08:03 PM
STUMPY, You are correct when you say that TBD has a provider board on TBD and was created for us to post about guys who physically abuse us. But you post here that the TBD board reviews clients? Using his real name and phone# and email address? I have been a member of that board and NOT once have I seen anything that you mention about reviewing a client. This TBD Provider board is to alert providers of bad clients, questions we have about are safety. In no way do we chit chat about good clients that we adore and give names and there phone numbers, rate them ETC. I don't know who feed you this information but they were wrong. I will say your half right but the other half isn't. The provider only board there on TBD, lets us ask questions on health, rates, hotels, jerk emails, get advice about new clients. And yes we tell jokes and have a shoulder to lean on when someone is having a bad day.
I'm not a fan of TBD but I do read the provider board for advice and see what to be looking for.
RED
One other thing, I'm sick of being told to go use the TBD Provider board there when I mention that I wish that TER would have one here. AS you can tell I do know of this board and I do read it and have been a member of TBD since July 2001. TER in my book is #1 in class and style and honesty well over TBD. TBD has more bogus reviews then Carter has Pills. Its now what you know its who you DO on TBD.
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 1:24:47 PM
I disagree but do not intend to repeat a discussion that has already taken place. I suggest thet anyone interested read the entire thread headed by "Hobbyist Review Board" on page 3 of the Los Angeles Discussion Board.
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 1:47:03 PM
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 1:50:10 PM
OK I read that whole thread and as FiFi and NOSC mentioned I too agree with them. I am taken aback that this is happening. Except for the part that they do post abusive men and rip offs. But as far as reviewing GOOD clients? That PLAIN sucks. I have yet to read any so called reviews and seen such post. SEE another reason I totaly dislike TBD.
TER rocks, and if we had a Provider ONLY board that TRASH wouldn't be on are board, that I know 100%.
RED
(wondering where the hell I was when that thread was being posted)
CLSexxyRed.
From a previous recipient of the award, congratulations! 
Holly
(wishing you'd been there, but glad you're here)
Well thank you Holly,
RED
-- Modified on 4/21/2002 2:31:10 PM
TBD does have a screening database and a client review database for the lady's in their Lady's Only section. The way I hear it opperates is that in order to gain access to the reviews other lady's have written, the lady seeking the information must first post two reviews herself. Then she has access for a period of time. Sort of like getting the VIP membership here. The information they put in that database is comparable to what is asked for to post a review here i.e. appearance, performance, hygine, physical description, e-mail address, phone number, city, state etc.
The other database is a client screening database. That is where they post all the information about bad clients. All you need to gain access to that database is to be a paid member of th lady's section. There is no requirment to contribute in order to gain access. Some of the same information is required for that database as well.
This information is second hand and none of the information on those databases or info on their messageboards have been made available to me. But the existance was confirmed by a lady who does have access.
Thanks night rider for the additional info. Red I agree with you. I have no problem with a hobbyist review board strictly dealing with ripoffs and wacko's who represent a safety problem. I have a major problem with a hobbyist review board that reviews all clients using personal phone numbers, names, and e-mail. It makes me want to use an alias, call from a pay phone or cell phone and never use my own e-mail. In other words it makes me not want to deal with a provider's screening. I am aware that not all providers are posting to this review board. For your information the thread on page 3 of the LA board got restarted on page 2 of the Los Angeles Board under the title "Hobbyist Alert....".
I retract what I have said. I just found the client data base. I'm so shocked that the ladies do this. I would never post any information on my clients. And if a client recomends me to a friend I sure in the hell would hope that he would email me first and ask if it was ok for him to give my information out.
I'm sitting here in shock and Stump I am sorry about my earlier post.
RED
Yes, the database allows for posting of both good and bad clients. But there is NO field for performance... ROFLMAO how the hell would we rate YOU guys? There are fields for appearance, in a general way... ie: height, body type, hair color. Big f'ing deal! It is just a way for a lady to verify you WITHOUT asking for personal info. Generally the "reviews" of good clients say something like, "he is a sweetheart," or "He is a total gentleman!" Reviews of BAD CLIENTS of course, contain much more detail... but if you are a gentleman, you don't have to worry about that now do you?
OF COURSE the reviews include info about hygiene, but honestly, if you haven't learned to keep yourself clean by THIS time in your life... what do you expect? Cleanliness is NOT an unreasonable expectation for a lady to have when you pay her a visit.
You guys all WHINE and WHINE about providers who have extensive screening procedures... and then WHINE and WHINE when providers try to use one that is less invasive. If you want anonymous encounters, I suggest you try street girls, I can promise you they don't care WHO you are. Most reputable ladies DO, and will not see you without SOME way to verify who you are, so help us out! Gawd, stop whining and just have fun, would you! This is getting SO OLD... talk about beating a dead horse.
This is making me GRUMPY. Can't we talk about something fun like favorite positions, favorite sex toys, things like that?
I am not usually so bitchy, so I apologize in advance. I'm just getting sick of seeing bad information passed around about this board. You know if you guys are THAT intimidated of a place that primarily serves to give us girls a place for GIRL TALK, you really have issues that we can't help you with anyways.
BTW there is only ONE client database, not TWO.
Sincerely,
Nicole
I only wish and hope you guys will finally believe a post on this issue. I have said this too on th LA board. Relax, relax, relax! If you do nothing bad to a girl, no one will ever say anything about you. Thank you Nicole.
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 4:15:59 PM
just to give someone a sensual massage, it seems so intrusive...but my friend (an experienced escort) tells me I need to call clients at work to verify employment, see their ID, pay stubs, etc.
Honestly, I don't feel comfortable doing this but I don't want to put myself at risk either.
How do you pass a screening process if you won't show ID?
You don't need to see paycheck stubs etc. All you need is to be able to call them at work. Cops can get paycheck stubs etc. And first, the cops have to get interested in you to go after you. But that is for another topic.
What you really need to worry about is getting raped, beat-up and robbed. And chances are that someone with those intentions are not going to let you call him back at work. Also if you have caller id, sometimes the business name and number will show up on your caller id.
If you were the victim of a violent crime, you want to be able to tell the police where to find the perpetrator. (remember you are just a misdemeanor and he would be a felon who committed a violent crime). Allowing a totally anonymous stranger into your home is very dangerous.
Do NOT see men who call from payphones and caller id will tell you when it a payphone...I don't even answer the phone when someone is calling from a payphone.
Just think about your own personal safety and make that a priority.
ozymandias....I have a question only you can answer....please email me
[email protected]
Very well said. In the days when girls worked through Madams, only the Madam had your personal info, not the girl (unless you shared that with her). And if you had any problems with a girl, you talked to the Madam and she took care of it.
With the surge of girls working independently, you are having to share your personal info with a girl, hoping she will be discreet and is not some nutcase who will use your info to harm you later. Most girls wouldn't do that to you but it only takes one to make your life miserable.
Madams on the other hand had a limited set of clients, were very professional and had to remain discreet or they would be put out of business fast. An Independent can disappear and reappear as someone else a lot easier than a Madam. And not all Independents are true professionals with a professional business sense. Some are girls who due to personal or mental problems, cannot hold a regular job. And before you flame me, I am NOT saying all Independents because I am one myself, but I have known several who were nuts!
More than fearing LE, girls fear being raped, robbed, or beat-up. I doubt such a criminal is going to give out his info to a girl so she can tell the cops and they can go find him and arrest him on a Felony. I have also noticed its the same girls who keep getting raped, robbed and beat-up up...over and over (or arrested, over and over) because those girls do not understand the importance of screening.
The reason I have on my site that I do not accept nor provide references, is not because I "fear competition" or such nonsense (there are plenty of clients to go around)...Its because I value the privacy of my clients and do NOT want girls pestering me by trying to pry info out of me about a client...info she may be planning on using against him.
I keep no records and no database. I do not call clients to bug them or try to drum up business. If they want to see me, they can call me. I have a few client-friends with whom I have the kind of relationship where I can call them to talk or ask a question or just say hello, but those are rare friendships and not the norm. My belief is..if the client wants to talk to or see me, then he can contact me.
However, the problem you mention about girls not being discreet with client info, is one of the problems with seeing independents. If its that big a concern for you, and understandably so, then I would suggest you go through Madam to see girls. Or stick to Independents whom you have researched well, whome have been in business a while and whom have a reputation for stability rather than volatility. Volatile may be "exciting" for some, but its a warning sign for troubles to come.
Talisa
As an independent, I try to be as unintrusive as possible in my screening and on my screening template (which I prefer to do by private email) I give 4 CHOICES to the client to use, whichever he feels most comfortable using. If he prefers giving his answers on the phone instead of email, that's fine with me. It's important that he is comfortable as possible.
I dont feel comfortable with the id check at the door for several reasons. Besides, I wouldnt know a fake id if I saw one.
As an escort, I am held accountable, as the client has my name, website, knows what i look like, etc. But that is not why I dont abuse the info. I just wont.
Finally, when it comes to giving references, I CANT because I have destroyed the info. But if a lady does tell me that a client referred me as a reference, I ask her to have him contact me. This verifies that she is not someone who is out after him; that HE actually wants the reference passed on. Very often I cannot verify anyway, unless he is a regular, because I've disposed of the info. and I wont put a lady in danger by saying okay if i'm not absolutely certain.
I believe it is an escort's job to protect her client; I only wish that some clients would be a little more considerate of the escorts. Fortunately I dont have those problems.
Of course, some clients will stick with the ladies who they know are safe, but some will want to try every flavor on the chart, so they cope the way they know how.
xoxo
ff
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 5:49:47 PM
I completely agree with you. But they forget that not only do they have our website and phone number they have our addess and are coming into our homes. A girl has the right to know who is coming into her home.
Talisa
Talisa and Felicia
I am of the same material. I appreciate your input on this subject. We have every right to protect ourselves. The need to screen is very very important. I am secure that my process is painless. Why would I spoil a good thing for anyone.
Guys, there are bad cookies out there. But you should feel safe too. I hope you can relax and not feel overly concerned. Sometimes the boards can stir concerns that get overblown. If your track record has worked and the providers have been around a good long time then you should not worry. Try not to believe everything you read
Rose
PS And TBD has it's good points too. But there are some bad cookies anywhere, and some may lurk around there also. But if you are a good guy no one will be posting your info. Most girls don't put up real emails and I have never seen a phone number. Some have put up fake good reviews just so they can view the dangerous posts. On the LA board I only saw 2 to warn the girls of and about 8 or so nice guy reviews and no juicy info. Relax and play safe.
A girl also has the right to know something about someone whose home she is visiting.
WE
CHOOSE
to participate in The Hobby. This gives us the responsibility to respect ANY concerns providers have for their safety.
As I have said over and over: If we are that concerned regarding our anonymity, maybe we should not be punting.
I'm honestly curious...
How could emailing someone and saying, "Yes, John is a nice guy," harm him in any way? If the person emailing you already knows his hobbying email, they already know he sees escorts. Most gents post their email addy's with their reviews anyways... so how would that be a violation of confidentiality? Especially if the lady asking is well reviewed in your area?
Hugs*
Nicole
Some observations. I am sure a few will draw flames.
I appreciate your sentiments Talisa. I actually commend you and Red's honesty. In the past many providers posting on this board have tried to give the impression that they did not know of any nutcase providers, unintelligent providers or any providers suffering from substance abuse. Yes, I have met a few who were nuts and or fit the other categories I mentioned. Thankfully not many. Actually I am more concerned about this issue for others than myself. I do not pretend to be bullet proof like MBsouthpaw but I do not have a family or SO to lose over this hobby. However my information in the wrong hands could cause me some embarassment. As you initially mentioned in your post madams are largely a thing of the past. What has taken their place to a large extent is the Agency which is certainly not the same as a madam and many have poor reputations themselves. Of the remaining ladies that I am aware of that serve as Madams none of them are particulary discreet and that has had them running one step ahead of LE. I do not have the time to get into those stories. So effectively in my mind madams are not a viable solution. One viable solution that I have heard of is verification from an operation like Roomservice2000. That apparently works pretty good in the Chicago area. Getting back to this TBD client review board what I found alarming is that it appears like quite a number of the independents post to it. Maybe even a majority. Looking at the threads over the past few days a number of providers tried to pretend like it did not exist or that only bad clients were posted on the board. I noticed that most who responded that way do not post under the same name that they advertise under. I wonder why? In any event there are enough posting to that board that it is difficult to know who to trust and not trust. Anybody can claim they will not or do not but there is no way to know. Since many providers do not screen very heavily, another solution would be to stick to providers who do not screen much. Some people would say that is dangerous and may lead to you getting caught in an LE sting. However if LE caught every provider who did not not screen heavily, better than half the provider's reviewed on this board would be gone instead of the handful we find out about. Also in the discussion thread "Hobbyist Alert..." that is currently on page 2 of the Los Angeles Discussion Board Levendi has some comments as to his limits on personal information that he would be willing to give a provider for screening purposes.
I do not have a final solution to this problem but thought I would put out some additional options. Also I am not accusing any specific provider of posting to this board. I also intend to take a break from discussing this subject. I just wanted as many Hobbyists as possible to be aware of this situation. They can take whatever action they feel necessary to protect themselves. Also I refuse to let a small group of providers in the previous threads pretend it does not exist just to suit their own purposes. It is known as keep you in the dark and feed you bullsh*t.
-- Modified on 4/20/2002 9:17:57 PM
I myself will admit I'm not a very good screener of my cleints in fact I bet I doon't have more then half of there phone numbers.
My biggest part of screening the client I'm going to see is e-mailing three or for times back and forth or he has my number and we talk before hand..I have a pretty good sence I think when it comes to this.
I talked to one cleint that gave me his nnuber and for 45mins I listen about how good he was at what he does and how wonderful his son was, that by time I had a chance to talk I told him I weighed 225 pounds, he got quite and I never heard from him again, I'm sorry but there is only so much you can take about someone.
But the information I have on any of my clients remains with me inless that client is asked first, if I could give out his info to a provider. What next.. .. Are we going to start asking for SS numbers and a copy of last years tax forms.....Lets be safe but don't forget the fun
Just a little babbling from me.
Hugs,
Tammy
I will say that I have posted both in this thread and on the LA board thread about the client database in question, under my regular posting name, which is the name I advertise under. Why would I hide? *I* have nothing to hide. That's just silly. If you will read my posts you'll see that I have not been "Trying to pretend this board doesn't exist," but trying to clear up the misconceptions that exist about it. Namely that any hobbyist is in "danger" from this oh so scary board. Do you consider it scary when a group of ladies gets up and goes to the ladies room together? Know how we do that? Consider this board an extension of it.
Not to mention that no one wants to provide screening info, but meanwhile, they think that a rough physical description, a note saying "He is a gentleman," and your basic email addy (if it doesn't contain your full name), are FAR too much info to have on this EVIL EVIL board! Why not take it as what it is... something to make YOUR life easier, to keep you from having to deal with umpteen providers who will not see you without extensive screening info, and who will instead accept a listing in the client review database as a valid reference from another lady?
Again I say if what you want is TOTALLY 100% anonymous encounters, I suggest you try the street girls who are far too busy saving up for that next hit of crack to give a flying phuck who you are. Those ladies who have enough self respect to care about themselves ARE going to need to have SOME way to verify your identity and trustworthiness to let you in the door, whatever their individual way may be.
And I'll also say again that absolutely there are stupid providers out there, or crazy ones, or psycho ones, or drug addicted ones, or whatever word you want to put in there since they all come down to basically the same thing, don't they? Don't you think you have enough resources at your disposal to verify the reliability of a lady? If multiple reviews listed on multiple sites, backchanneling, and checking out someone's past history aren't enough for you to see someone, then you CERTAINLY shouldn't feel safe seeing someone on the street who would happily steal your wallet while you're distracted... IMO.
FWIW there are also stupid CLIENTS out there.
There will always be a few people in ANY group who are idiotic assholes and who will make life difficult for the rest of us. This is a fact of life that I'm surprised more of you haven't learned yet. In any priviledge given to any group of people there will ALWAYS be at least a few, if not more, who abuse that priviledge. I do believe the PURPOSE of boards like this is to help weed OUT those types of individuals, isn't it?
Accuse me of posting to that board... you have GOT to be kidding me... YES YES I post to it, I ask for hotel info, thoughts on screening, and tell dirty jokes ALL THE TIME. Scary, isn't it???
Mass hysteria is REALLY an ugly thing to witness.
Sincerely,
Nicole
A few little thing about agencies....
I live in MD, and there was a situation here that I'm sure lots of people heard of... called the Frederick Black Book case. A situation where the cops went after an agency, and were well rewarded to find a detailed database containing all pertinent information about all the clients of this agency, right down to and including their sexual preferences. Since this happened there's been a huge battle going on in that city because the newspaper wants to PRINT the names of the clients listed there... knowing many of them were high level city officials. Wouldn't that be lovely? Not only "Mayor (or whoever) paying for sex," but, "Mayor paying to get done hard with a strap on!" Woo hoo, the party has just begun 
There are always going to be a few bad apples in any group of people that spoil things for the rest of us... whether that means a client who beats a girl up and makes her incredibly paranoid for the rest of her days, or whether it means some STUPID girl who abuses the information provided to her by a client. But I think you are overstating the safety of agencies. Keep in mind that they are MUCH more likely to keep detailed records as well as being much more likely to get hit by LE, as LE wants to use their money to make the most arrests possible at any given time.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... my best advice to ANY client whether he is seeking his fun from an agency or an independant lady is to use the resources provided to him to do as much research as possible prior to allowing them to screen him. Ensure that YOU feel you can trust the lady you are being screened by because she has a long history of doing what she says she will do. We each have to determine our own comfort levels with this and what works for us, and I respect everyone's ability to make that choice for themselves.
BTW as for providing references... well that's helpful =:O Most of us don't want any "personal information" in seeking a reference. We want to know "Is John Doe an ok client?" And that's it. Clients infinitely prefer to use this system vs using more invasive screening methods, so I can't imagine why you'd thwart that and make screening more difficult for everyone all around. Just my opinion, but I feel like we as ladies should *help* each other as much as we can.
Sincerely,
Nicole
On the tv show "The Practice" there was a show about a "Bar Level" escort ("Bar Level" being above a "street walker" and below an "Independent"...girls who pick up clients in bars).
ANYWAY...
She would pick up a businessman at a bar, not tell him she was an escort, have sex with him in his hotel room, and then reveal that she was an escort and that if he did not pay $10,000 she would tell his boss and family what he had done (ie: picked up a hooker).
In the tv show one client beat her up real badly and refused to pay. She hired the "practice" law firm to defend her. Instead of telling the truth she cried RAPE and asked for $100,000. She won. Of course another businessman came forward and revealed her scam by showing a copy of the $10,000 check "he" had paid her for the same scam a few months earlier.
My reason for telling you about that episode is to say that there are some UNSCRUPULOUS people in this industry and if there is a way to be found to rip people (ladies and gentlemen) off they will find it! Clients beating up, raping and robbing escorts & Escorts doing Cash and Dash and Blackmail on Clients...the illegal nature of this business makes it so easy for us to "screw" eachother royally! To be perfectly honest I am surprised this kind of thing doesnt happen more often!
No provider wants to be arrested, beaten up, raped or robbed. No client wants to be ripped off or blackmailed. What "IS" the answer?
---------------------------------------------------------------
I used to screen clients with work info, but not any longer. I got ahold of a catalog called Eden Press...Do you know how easy it is to fake I.D.? Anyone with a computer, the right equiptment and a little know how can whip up fake I.D. in a matter of hours.
And whipping up a fake Birth Certificate and Social Security Card/Number will get you "REAL" I.D. at most DMV offices (you know those brilliant civil service workers are always on their toes). I ask for a provider reference...which I can see now will probably not work for long if PROVIDER'S DONT COOPERATE WITH EACHOTHER! I dont hold on to my clients info (what info?...I dont collect the info in the first place)...I just have an INCREDIBLE memory...in addition to the fact that I expressly ask my clients to let the provider know I will be calling her...that way she can REMEMBER HIM "and" be EXPECTING MY CALL at the same time.
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"Also" I think that when gentlemen get blackmailed or ripped off...IT'S KIND OF YOUR OWN FAULT (sorry to say that). Hey guys, You know I LUV YA' but when I read about how a girl has a TRACK RECORD of ripping guys off, of being a flake/headcase or a druggie, or being suspected of anything else...and you guys STILL go see her because she's HOT, then what did you expect? She ripped everyone else off why not you? MyLifeAsMe said something about how you guys are so complacent that you give a girl an "8" if she actually showed up and you were "satisfied". I'll jump up on my soapbox again and say that there should be "STANDARDS" in our industry...standards ALL providers will have to live by (even me) to receive an "8" or above.
It makes me SOOOOOOOOO MAD when other providers rip guys off OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, guys KNOW she is a rip off (or a druggie, or a headcase), and yet she has appointments booked one on top of the other because she's HOT. So the "HOT" rip off girls keep ripping guys off while the "AVERAGE LOOKING" Honest girls (and some are dishonest too I know) who never ripped anyone off sit aroung twiddling their thumbs waiting for the phone to ring.
There is one provider who's reviews I've read on the boards that has "Hyeigine Issues" in almost every one of her reviews...guys complain and complain about it...and yet guys keep seeing her?????????? They were WARNED! They read her reviews, they KNEW she had this issue, and they STILL went to see her (and have the nerve to complain about it afterwards)! What good is the advice/warnings in a review if you're going to ignore them? What am I missing here?
FLAME AWAY!
Sable
xoxo
-- Modified on 4/21/2002 12:27:28 AM
-- Modified on 4/21/2002 12:28:55 AM
"She would pick up a businessman at a bar, not tell him she was an escort, have sex with him in his hotel room, and then reveal that she was an escort and that if he did not pay $10,000 she would tell his boss and family what he had done (ie: picked up a hooker)."
This reminded me of the relationship I had with my ex wife...a very kewl lady BTW. One of the things she told me, and made me agree to...was to NEVER let anyone...ANYONE, no matter what the circumstances, use our relationship against us. "I might kick your ass for a day, a week, a month", she would tell me, "but just let me at that bitch whoever she is....I want to know who she is so I can let her know in PERSON that she can't influence me or MY relationship." Essentially she was saying that I should NEVER let a woman blackmail me...that I should just take my medicine with her, but to NOT fear any retribution...because she (my wife) considered it FAR more dangerous the keep secrets under such circumstances.
I suppose most guys don't have that sort of open, honest, trusting relationship with their wives...but then again, the reason I had that relationship was because my wife COULD trust me. As much as a "dog" as I have been since my marriage, and that I was before hand (though I never cheated on the woman who was to become my wife, even when she was my GF), I NEVER cheated on my wife. I took my marriage vows very seriously...and rather than break them when I no longer desired to maintain them, I got a divorce. But I'm not every guy...
"You know I LUV YA' but when I read about how a girl has a TRACK RECORD of ripping guys off, of being a flake/headcase or a druggie, or being suspected of anything else...and you guys STILL go see her because she's HOT, then what did you expect? "
I wonder about this myself...if a guy has TER access (and often MULTIPLE reviews) and the ripoff artist has been reviewed as such before...then how does it happen again? Do guys get lazy and not do THERE homework / screening in advance? I NEVER see an independent without her having SEVERAL positive reviews. I have only seen an unreviewed agency gal ONCE...and that was only because the agency price was so low that I figured it was worth it even if things didn't work out (as it tuened out, they worked out great BUT it was a ripoff insofar as "bait and switch")
"There is one provider who's reviews I've read on the boards that has "Hyeigine Issues" in almost every one of her reviews...guys complain and complain about it...and yet guys keep seeing her?????????? They were WARNED! They read her reviews, they KNEW she had this issue, and they STILL went to see her (and have the nerve to complain about it afterwards)!"
I wonder about this too! There is an independent here in NYC who ets pretty good reviews, and apparently does not have many limits. I have been so tempted....yet, almost eery review mentions her BO. I am confused...are guys that hard up for a piece of ass that they figure this is something they can ignore...only to experience it firs hand and then feel like "whoa...I gotta warn somebody"...after which the cycle just repeats itself. I mean...help me understand this....
BTW....you get more interesting with every post. Beauty and brains are the most seductive combination of all....
In other posts I have (at pedantically boring length, no doubt) listed the two justifications that I feel a client has for publishing a review against or regardless of ("irregardless" is not a word) the provider's wishes.
Your review of Diane is a perfect example. You provided key hygeine information. Not only would I not visit Diane after reading your review, I would not utilize the agency with which she is connected.
Punter who do not use the research tools available to them have no one to blame but themselves.
Sweetsable has an excellent point. There are punters who, despite plenty of negative feedback available, keep going to problematic providers. What were they thinking?????? Does the little head have THAT much control over the big head????
Also, when we participate in a Hobby that involves extremely personal contact and which carries certain inherent risks ranging from social stigmatization to (theoretically) death, why would we be cheapskates? Granted, higher price does not always mean better/safer service, but surely there is SOME correlation that you get what you pay for.
Possible abuses of the practice of stringent screening,including the possibility of extortion by unscrupulous providers, has been a hot topic on the Los Angeles Board in the last few weeks. At the time, when I raised this very issue, I was told in no uncertain terms by one very outspoken advocate of intense pre-screening -- who,incidentally, posts under an alias, not her working name -- that neither she nor her sisters would ever use the information they require from prospective clients for any improper purpose, and that I was obviously suffering from some "dysfunctional trust issues," among other apparent psychological and emotional problems.
Frankly, I was somewhat relieved to hear that I was the problem, and not the system. Since I have now been straightened out by this unimpeachable source, I am happy to report that hobbyists in Los Angeles, at least, have absolutely nothing to fear from any provider who demands personal data in advance of a tet-a-tete. And, of course, all this loose talk about detailed info on clients posted to a national provider's board is just that; only loose, unsubstantiated drivel. The stuff of paranoid delusions. [At least that's the party line. If you have the temerity to suggest otherwise, be prepared to get shouted down by the "honest" providers of Greater Los Angeles.]
So, I now subscribe to the philosophy of the esteemed Doctor Pangloss. This is the best of all possible worlds. Yet another reason I give thanks on a daily basis that I reside in Southern California -- rather than some other part of the country -- where providers will never, ever lie, cheat, extort, or steal. We're just so lucky here in the land of the lotus eaters, I suppose.
-- Modified on 4/21/2002 11:56:23 AM
I don't understand your sarcasm, and I can honestly say at this point that this whole thing is making me SO DAMNED GRUMPY and instead of reading more about it I think I'll go... have some fun, 'cuz you people are driving me NUTS.
Generalities are general... WHY anyone would post under an alias I have no idea. I certainly have no problem being my loud mouthed, intelligent, opinionated self, under my OWN name. I am also not from Los Angeles, and I am NOT going to shout you down. What I WILL say is exactly what I chipped in with on the LA Board, that this client review database is NOT the big bad scary monster you are making it out to be.
Let's look at this logically...
1) You don't want to give out your *real* information, whether that be your home addy, home number, work info, whatever. I don't blame you, I do understand.
2) Thus, as a way to help providers get references from each other (since that is ALL the client database IS when you get right down to it), a client database is created which includes such info as your email address, your first name, your handle on the boards if you have one, a rough physical description, whether or not you paid or ripped the lady off, and a box for comments which usually include something like... "He is a gentleman."
Now if you can explain to me how that is any different than my emailing a lady and saying "Hi, John Doe just emailed me... [email protected], and used you as a reference. Do you know this guy?" And the lady writes back saying, "Oh yes, I know John! He is an absolute sweetheart, you will have a great time!" Explain the difference between the two, aside from the physical description... which I actually think is a good idea as it ensures that no one else (unless they look like you) can show up and use your name, saying they ARE you. I'd like to know how one of those is fine and an accepted method of screening which most gentlemen PREFER to use, and one is a big, bad, scary monster that everyone has to get all hysterical over. Do tell, please, because I REALLY must be missing something here.
Oh, I forgot.
3) You freak out about the client database and demand that this horrendous invasion of privacy be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY, thus causing a bunch of ladies who would have used it as a reference from another lady to ask you for your work information.
Seems I've created a lil' circle here.
Everyone wants to bitch about screening... no one wants to offer any real solutions. Those of us who care about our clients ARE trying our best to give you ways to see as many ladies as you like WITHOUT having your privacy invaded or running into brick walls because you refuse to provide employment info. Until YOU are able to offer something different, don't complain about OUR way or notifying other ladies that a client is a-ok, or a dangerous psycho. And if you're not a dangerous psycho, nothing more personal than what I've written about will be posted about you.
So are there stupid providers out there, and stupid clients as well? Yes. Is this a risky hobby? Yes. If the risk is too great for you, go get a Mistress. What are the odds, if you do your homework, LISTEN to the reviews posted, check various boards for the lady in question, see how long she's worked under the name you know her as, etc, that you will have any problems? I'd think they'd be pretty low, maybe I'm mislead and you can correct me as to how even the most well reviewed, consistently reviewed over a period of time, ladies, are just as dangerous? Let me know, I'm interested in your perspective.
Sincerely,
Nicole
to a discussion of what a provider may do with information she acquires as a result of intense scrutiny of prospective clientele. Great reviews signify only that the lady provides competent personal services. It is not any indicator of whether or not she may be inclined to extort money from a client who has been foolish enough to give her the means to do so.
Why would the lady jeopardize her livelyhood by taking the information that she needs to feel safe and just do something like that to extort from a client? I just don't get that kind of girl.
esp if she's leaving town or the business altogether. An instant annuity. And since the mark is the last person who will open his mouth -- he's paying for silence -- it isn't even a big risk. Unless, of course,the unscrupulous lady picks the wrong mark...but most cons select their targets very carefully.
Isn't extortion illegal?
Wouldn't that be lovely, to be able to inform LE that someone is a prostitute AND committing extortion?
Not to mention the damage you could do to someone on the boards if they ever even tried that crap, if she's planning to stay/be in the 'biz.
Yanno I could write for an hour and poke holes in this line of reasoning but frankly I don't have the energy for this battle anymore. Can't we talk about sex or something? And are you one of those "half-empty" types, or what?
Nicole
After having read all of the threads related to this issue, I smell the powerful odor of mendacity. I can't understand why some providers would claim that personal information of a sensitive nature is being posted on the TBD Boards unless it was true. What would they gain by making up this story? On the other hand I can think of a lot of reasons why providers posting to these Boards would claim that the TBD Boards are harmless and nothing sensitive is being posted regardless of the truth. Think about it. Just Common Sense.
-- Modified on 4/23/2002 4:19:00 AM
But if you'd like to email me to discuss it further, you are welcome to do so at [email protected]. Personally I read all the boards I can find and think they all have value, so I'm not really part of the battle of the boards... many other are, though. If TER had a providers board as well you can be sure I would make use of it.
That said, what I said about using personal info still stands regardless of "whose side" you think I'm on. I can tell you whose side I'm on... MY OWN... my job is to protect my *self*, and secondly protect my CLIENTS, and I work very hard to do both.
Hugs*
Nicole