I have read some messages about gentlemen posting reviews only after getting the consent of the provider.  Or they preferred not to post any reviews because they don't want to describe graphic detail on intimate subjects.

I respectively disagree.

I am the beneficiary of info provided by TER reviews and have strong views about this subject.

If no one gets dirty and provided all the DFK, CBJ, BBBJ, BBBJTC info on a provider, we will be back in the grand old days of blind dating and getting disappointments all the times.  Although individual experience differs because of YMMV, after reading through a few reviews, one gets the sense of the like and dislike of a provider.  If I read reviews of a provider that performs lots of BBBJ, this is a high chance that I will also get BBBJs.  That is a major benefit I got from TER.  This also limit the chance of disappointment if I am looking for other experiences such as DFK.

I believe one of the reason why a provider don't like reviews is that they are afraid to have descriptions in a review throw back at them to force them to perform services which they don't feel like doing at that moment.  I believe that is an ungentlemenly behavior on the hobbyist part to do so.

However, if we as reviewers allows providers to dictate whether reviews should be submitted, this will skew the rating of that provider and possibly to the detriment of other providers and the TER community.

This is the major reason why I normally don't mention TER and reveal my TER handle.  This is also the reason why I have yet to call a highly rated provider in LA because she requires TER handle for screening.  If I ever have to reveal my TER handle in order to meet the lady, I would most likely not submit the review.  Otherwise there will be lots of pressure to glorify the virtues and lessen the flaws.

I apologize for the strong wording of this message.  All I am looking for is an honest exchange of ideas.

as any real man knows, sex is best only when you can brag about it afterwards therein lies the true value of the review system...

i do agree with girl crazy here, in that this board is for us to share our experiences with each other, to let each other know about excellent experiences as well as to warn of bad ones. all the questions we are not allowed to ask a provider on the phone or in e-mail can be answered here, so we can make semi-intelligent decisions. BUT - if a girl does something special for you that she is not willing or interested in doing all the time, i don't want to hear about it because it just raises my expectations; and the other side of the coin is, maybe i was only interested in one particular thing with a provider, but that doesn't mean that's all she offers. isn't it valuable to other clients if i ask her about other services available and mention that in my review? it is to me.... YMMV doesn't cover everything.

anyway, all i'm saying is that i don't see the harm in collaborating a little with the provider on the review as long as you are communicating the truth to your fellow clients.

are better off if they do NOT discuss TER with providers outside of interactions on this site.  Most importantly, they should not reveal their TER moniker or ask permission to post a review.  However, reviews should be written in a way that is informative without being unnecessarily graphic or revealing overly sensitive material.

LC

I agree, but do think that a lady should have the right to read the review before it is posted.  Perhaps it should be submitted to TER and then let them send a copy to the provider before it gets posted.  

I had a horrifying experience with a review that stated that I provided all of my services uncovered.  I had gotten a sudden flux of meetings in which this was expected.  I didn't have a clue that the review had been written.  It was through a heated conversation with a gent that I was finally made aware of it.  Although I had put the request in to have the review reflect differently, it took at least another week before the mess was finally cleared up.  The reviewer had to be contacted to alert him of the discrepancy.  A month and a half had past between the time the review was posted, my finding out it even existed and having the review changed to reflect the truth.  Had I known before the review was posted, it would have saved a lot of heartache for myself and those that expected the service.  I can also only imagine how many gents came across that review and decided against meeting with me because of the dangerous aspects to that kind of service.  I am not insane.

The demand of graphic details also, IMHO, has a few gents embelishing the truths of what actually does take place in a meeting.  It is one of the biggest complaints among providers, for there have been several instances in which this has become an issue in meeting with gents also.

Another factor is the use of reviews as bartering tools.  I had many gents offer a favorable review for a discount.  I find that apect disgusting and it really undermines the true intentions of what a review is all about and risks my reputation as a reliable and honest provider.  So, I refuse to see those gentlemen.

These problems angered me so much, that I now have a disclaimer on my site in which I refuse to discuss reviews all together with gents.  I still welcome them, but are not to be discussed with me, but do ask that the reviews be tasteful and honest.

Since posting that disclosure, only two reviews have been written that I know about. I don't know if the gents percieve that I do not want reviews or if it puts me in a catagory in which I am percieved to be one of those that complain about reviews all the time.  I do not know.  

My intent in that disclosure was to stop those using them as bartering tools when trying to meet with me and to hopefully make the gent think twice about writing something erroneous in which the affects would be detrimental for not only me, but with the gentlmen that would meet with me.  Expectations should be clear on both sides of the fence.

Lauren

I totally agree with you Lauren. Thankfully my reviews have always been in good taste ( at least the ones I know of)and the gentlemen who provided them had the decency to ask my permission first. Why is this important? Because as Lauren stated, you can get reviews that are NOT accurate. It is natural that a Bragger will over emphasize certain services which may or may not have happened in order to " look" like the macho, ultra cool guy he Isn't... Reviews ( just my opinion) should reflect more the quality of the provider ( physically, hygenically and personality). What her talents are can be important with respect to: a great Role Player, makes you feel at ease during a massage, kicks the shit outta you ( and you loved it!) in a great Dom session.... But whether she will  give you a BJ with or without a condomn is not essential ( if the provider knows what she is doing, it shouldn't even be an issue). And, please do not forget that it is HER choice to do it. For you to slam her cause she won't do BBBJ, is not right and maybe you should take a look at yourself for the reason. Lastly, I think reviews should reflect the personality of the provider. For example if you wrote that I am a super high strung lady, who enjoys a great evening of gang banging you and your friends and I will do ANYTHING in any language would be a very innacurate description of me, and that just isn't fair to the other hobbyists, because they will be disapointed. Remember, Honesty is Always the Best Policy, but it should Always be done with Class!!!

"But whether she will give you a BJ with or without a condomn is not essential"

How could you POSSIBLY think that you are in a position to decide this? Have you ever had a BBBJ versus CBJ?

It is certainly your decision to provide or not provide, but for you to think that you are in a position to decide how "essential" the services you offer are to your clients is the absolute height of arrogance...

"and maybe you should take a look at yourself for the reason"

I think perhaps it is you who needs to take a look at yourself...normally your posted opinions are balanced and reasonable, even if I don't always agree.

But to think FOR A MOMENT that you are in a position to decide how important something should be for someone else...for A CUSTOMER...man, that is incredible...


-- Modified on 7/15/2002 11:54:19 AM

-- Modified on 7/15/2002 2:17:17 PM

I absolutely agree...

I am frequently amazed at how often guys seem to forget that they have benefited from others doing exactly what they are not willing to do. Holding back on writing reviews, getting "permission" from the provider, etc shows a total misplacement of loyalties.

Should guys try to negotiate rates based on reviews? Absolutely not. This is ridiculous...and it is offered because apparently some providers have been willing to do so in the past. If I were a provider, I would simply hang up on any guy who proposed such a thing...

Should reviews be truthful? Again, it goes without saying they should be. I am not sure how it would be resolved in a he said / she said scnerio, but any hobbyist caught lying in a review should be banned form posting them. His misinformation does harm toward both his fellow hobbyist AND the provider in question...such a man is a scub bag.

How explict should reviews be? I am not sure...I can certainly understand why some ladies object to the language in reviews. I have stated in the past that if my reviews were more explict than was considered "acceptable", I would be willing to consider revising my writing style. But...the whole purpose of reviews is to tell other hobbyist what to expect, so things like BBBJ versus CBJ are important details, as is similar information.

I have often thought that some providers seem to blur their personal lives and their professional ones...they seem to forget that the general accepted rules for social behavior in regards to things like "kissing and telling" (something I abhor) go out the window when money is exchanged for companionship. Clients are not SigOs...and expectation of gifts, or for guys to not post reviews, or so many other behaviors that some providers seem to object to, is amazing to me.

I have said it before...I will say it again, and welcome any flames that come my way. As a client, all I "owe" a provider is to be clean, punctual, and safe (meaning I respect her limits, whatever they might be). I like to believe that I conduct myself as gentleman, and I would welcome any feedback from any ASP that I have seen who felt differently. But...and feel this strongly...all I am OBLIGATED to be is clean, safe and punctual (along with prepared to pay the fee, of course).

Its sex for money guys....of course we can try to enhance the experience on both sides of the fence by being as personable as possible (and I try to do this). But the second you forget that this is BUSINESS guys, is the second you become ripe for being a "sucker"...

-- Modified on 7/15/2002 12:10:47 PM

This is an interesting thread.  The reponses are varied, and I would like to add my 2 cents to the mix.

First off, the salient objective of boards like TER, Redbook etc. is to primarily provide a platform for hobbyist to exchange their experiences.  

For the most part, hobbyists write honest, objective, and informative reviews.   These reviews, help other hobbyists to set realistic expectations of their potential encounter with a prospective provider.   And, yes! Details are important ... they help validate what the provider advertises vs. what the provider actually delivers.

Someone mentioned that YMMV.  Well!  For me, that is a rather suspect statement.  Let's not forget what this hobby entails.   All said and done its fee/donation for intimate companionship and specific services.  Generally speaking, hobbyist make the requested donation, and should expect a consistent quality of service.  

If the hobbyist has issues - bad breath, hygenie, etc ... the best thing to do is alleviate the problem.  Have them take a shower, use mouthwash ... you could always say that is your rule, or some other clever explanation.  

Let me use this analogy -  say you were dining is a top flight restaurant.  You order the same entree as your friend.  Keeping in mind both of you will be paying the same price for the meal, would you be happy if his entree tastes delicious, and your entree taste like horse manure?

OR, here's another one...Say 2 people were to engage the services of a prominent lawyer.  The lawyer serves one client better than the other - if you were the client that was at the short end of the stick, would be be happy?

Businesses, whether personal service (Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Providers, etc.) or corporate services gain a reputation, and credibilty for their honesty, compassion, inter-personal skills, and MOST IMPORTANTLY consistent delivery of QUALITY service (to all of their clients).  

It is also my understanding that providers have their own network (outside of review boards), and share information about clients.  Do any of them ask permission for sharing this information?  That is a rhetorical question - the answer is NO!


Enough said!   Now, please hit my music -- its time for me to PARTY




-- Modified on 7/15/2002 11:08:47 AM

Amen, brother!

Your points are right on.  Unfortunately not all gentlemen conduct themselves in the same way you do and that is where problems come in to play and the YMMV issues also come into play.  What seems like perfect common sense to some, does not come into consideration with others.  Peoples lifestyles vary greatly.

BBBJ's a perfect example.  If a gent reads reviews that a provider offers such services and then finds that she will not with him, then it would make perfect common sense to put two and two together.  The most common problem is hygiene and abnormalties also.  Some just do not get it though no matter how diplomatic you try to be.  And short of "You stink" will not get the message across and then are surprisingly insulted.  Not a good way start a meeting.  So when a lady makes the suggestion to showering first.....take it!

Although we are what we are, it does not mean that we like to be treated with disrespect either.  We are human beings too!  Enhance the experience, yes.  Last thing looked for is a SignO, but does not mean that we want to be treated with disrespect either.  Kiss and tell?  There are the good and the bad in this endeavor and any lady with the least amount of integrity will respect that.  The rule of thumb the way I see it, is that nothing is disclosed unless of course that gent is a danger to a lady.  Then by all means all the beans should be spilled in order to ensure safety for all the ladies.

Reviews are kiss and tell to a degree where the gents are concerned.  Reasonable to describe services provided, but can be done in a tasteful manner that leaves something to the imagination.

Lauren

as somebody who pays a monthly fee for access to this website I am looking for something along the lines of Consumer Reports for provider services. I need information that is hopefully, untainted. With enough reviews, I can weed out the extremely bad or extremely good reviews, and get a good average indication of what kind of service I'm likely to expect.

Obviously, TER falls well short of the "Consumer Reports" standard since it accepts advertising from providers and allows them to complain about reviews and potentially have them removed. This compromises the integrity of the information to some degree. Also, hobbyists asking a provider permission to post a review defeats the object too. Also, allowing providers to preview the review is a very questionable practics. There's definitely a question of loyalty there.

I don't think you can be both an information site and an advertising site without severely compromising one or the other. Please don't try to straddle the fence, TER.

She performed as promised. It's not up to me to spread negative information about someone whom I just didn't click with.

I will report on "bell ringers" if they are indifferent or positive and will post honest reviews of those that request a review.

Giving an "honest" review on poor, very poor or rip-off experiences is what the site is for. Giving rave reviews is a bonus.

No one expects TER to straddle the fence,nor any other review board.  You state yourself that the information you seek should be untainted.  I think that is the point of the thread.  

Providers should have every right to have a review removed or at least revised with the full authorization of the reviewer if the review is inaccurate.  That in itself keeps the integrity of the information provided, as was the erroneous review that suggested that all my services were uncovered.  That tainted review had gents visit that may have never done so if the information had been accurate, a pure waste of time and money for some, although I do believe there were some that took it all in stride and ended up having a wonderful time.

On the other side of the coin, that tainted review, although we may never truly know, may have cost me and a gent a truly wonderful time.  How many gents came across that review and decided against visiting with me because they considered my practices unsafe and dangerous (as I really do)?  

I do not believe that the reviews should be allowed to be knit picked to a degree that borders on the line of ridiculous, but do feel that a general review should be allowed to be scrutinized by a provider and changed or removed with the full knowledge and participation of the reviewer.  It may help in making the information a little more accurate.

Like it or not, a great deal of the reviews are inaccurate.  They are embelished upon for entertainments sake.  As stated above, countless providers complain about them for although they have met with the reviewer, certain aspects never took place, which leaves the door open for another gent to expect something that just isn't so.  Leaving a very tainted Consumer Report.

If you think that it is so easy for us to just snap a finger and have that information removed without great fight, you are sorely mistaken.  TER does not make it easy for a review to be removed or altered without some heavy handed evidence.  The struggle is so hard as a matter of fact, that a lot of providers just throw their hands in the air and deal with the chips as best they can.

I do believe that both honorable ladies and gentlemen want the same thing.  An untainted, truthful and reliable review.  Yes, there are those out there on both sides that take this all to the extreme and take things to personally without being objective given the personal nature of the genre.  Very hard to do when the commodity is yourself.  I believe that is where the boards can be of extreme help.  It is a third party that can ascertain the information objectively from each and be able to make an accessment that will give everyone that reliable Consumer Report we all so desperately want and need.

Lauren

the profile.  The first reviewer fills out the profile and it stands unless you are able to get staff to change it.  On a number of providers I have seen a provider profile that indicates BBBJ, DFK, Anal, etc. and the next 10 or 15 reviews indicate that they got CBJ only or anal was not available.  Also the reverse is sometimes true in that the reviews indicate that services are offered that are not relected in the profile.  I think that if the lady has enough reviews by credible reviewers the concensus tends to be a fairly accurate appraisal of the type and quality of the services provided.

-- Modified on 7/15/2002 6:24:29 PM

I think gspider makes some valid points.  

These reviews are similar to consumer reports, and need to be untainted, and independent.  The process of getting an approval from a provider taints the process. This may even further slow down the process of getting reviews posted.  Another fallout is that a significant amount of hobbyist may simply opt NOT to submit any reviews.

In addition, there is also the issue of compromising the PRIVACY of the reviewer.  The reviewer would have to reveal his handle name to seek an approval, or would leave enough clues in his review for the provider to identify him.  

Who are we kidding?   Say for instance, a hobbyist for what ever reason had a bad experience.  Do you think the provider would give her blessing to post a bad review.

For the most part, the hobbyist provide accurate reviews. If there are discrepancies, other hobbyist will pick them up.  For example, say reviews for provider Madam X indicates she speaks French with a translator.  Out of the 10 review only 1 review indicates that there was no translator.  A potential client will review this and set his expectations accordingly.

Let me ask you a question?  It is my understanding that there are informal networks for providers -- where a number of topics are discussed, including clients and your experiences with them.  Now, do you ask the client for permission? Do you ask him for his approval of your perceptions about him?

Well!  I don't want to belabor the point.  

Peace!





-- Modified on 7/15/2002 8:03:59 PM

There is only one provider forum in this area that I know about.  I can say without hesitation, that identities of clients are never revealed, unless of course, he has threatened, hurt or cheated a provider in some manner.  But, no, we do not have these locker room talks and compare notes in the sense that you think.  

Lauren

Actually, most of my dealings with escort only boards have been about topics like Security or Help wanted type ads. We do not embellish on what we do with our clients ( actually I would find it uncomfortable to get the blow by blow on someones client). Yes we laugh about some of the crazy emails we get, but on the most part it's a place we can go to help one another and get support. Just another way that women and men differ I guess. As for the comment about the great need to know that a girl gives BBBJ, I stand firm here guys. It was summed up very nicely with the comment about hygien. If I can take the time to make myself smell and look pretty for you, I do expect the same. Is  that a lot to ask? As for your comment about being a sucker... this is not a good thing. To me, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder and are letting it out on us providers. This is suppose to be a consenting recreation between two adults. If you are feeling like a sucker, you really need to stop playing the game. It's not good for anyone concerned especially you.

-- Modified on 7/15/2002 10:52:05 PM

I have read several times something to this effect on the board from the ladies, and I am willing to hear this point out.

I am going to be honest and go ahead and state that I don't understand it. What would "taste" matter so long as what is being said is truthful? I would think that once the decision to become an escort is made, and an internet site is posted, all pretense of modesty would go out of the window.

I also note that many escorts gleefully post explicted reviews right on their site, presumably becaise they feel this yields benefits for their business (and again, it is a business...another reason why I am not totally sure how "modesty" and "decorum" come into play).

Still...I am...HONESTLY...willing to accept feedback in this regard. What is the middle ground between providing the details we as hobbyist crave, so that we can make infomred decisions, versus the "tastefulness" some providers desire?

Feel absolutely free to take any of my reviews and rewrite them as an example. Feel free to post them here if you'd like...so that everyone can benefit (including me) from the lesson to be learned. If the revised version provided by some general consensous enough detail to serve the orginally intended purpose, then I at least (and I suspect many other reviewing hobbyist) will be glad to change our perspective on this particular aspect of the review debate.

"I don't think you can be both an information site and an advertising site without severely compromising one or the other"

Amen, brother.  

But let's play devil's advocate for a minute.  Let's assume that someone opened "TheLittleKitty.net" as a review board for hobbyists to exchange frank, graphic, detailed, unvarnished reviews of providers, refused to allow any posts or reviews to be edited, and refused advertising to maintain its neutrality.  What would you expect to see?

1) A board out of business before too long.  Why?  No board of significant size can be run JUST as a hobby - it takes too much investment in time, equipment, connectivity, etc., and people who do it want to make a living at it.  You can't make enough on memberships to do that.  I've been involved with BBS' for over 20 years, and I can tell you that very, very few boards of ANY type (not just adult-oriented) have made a living for their sysops on just membership fees.  It takes advertising or other forms of revenue generation to make it profitable.

2) A board with NO provider involvement or participation.  Indeed, a board blackballed by most providers - if you say you saw a review of the provider on TheLittleKitty, they might well tell you to f*** off.  The providers are not going to stand for a place where both the unvanished truth and the complete bulls*** is spoken about them without them having ant kind of  veto.  Read the providers posts in this and other similar threads and this will be clear.

In other words, the board needs the providers, both as ad revenue and as "seed" for the discussions, to be successful for the people operating it... and the board is going to have to cut the providers some slack, give them some veto power on reviews, etc., if it expects to appeal to and keep providers.

OTOH... boards run by providers rather than hobbyists generally go too far the other way.  I've never seen a provider-run board that did not have severe restrictions on "free speech" and a very quick editor's scalpel on the reviews - to the point that the reviews are practically worthless and the board one big advertisement.

I *do* think that it's just a nice thing to do, to ask a lady before you post a positive review. It's just POLITE. If you're posting a negative review (ripoff, poor service, bait and switch, etc), of course she doesn't deserve that courtesy. I've never said *no* to anyone posting a review... but I always appreciate it when I'm asked. It's just like saying "thank you" and "you're welcome."  Simple little gems of courtesy that make people pleasant to be around...that's all.

I am not scared of reviews except in the sense that someone might post something untrue... and I don't mean negative things. The only review here that I ever requested to be pulled, stated that I do some things I don't do... and since I don't do them, it's misleading to the folks of TER to read a review saying that I do.

I consider all the reviews written about me to be entertaining erotica anyways... yum!

Hugs*
Nicole

But then, I always do...

What possible harm could it do to ask a lady whom you are writing a rave review about, if she minds if you post it? You have no idea if she is prepared to handle the new business a sterling review will generate, or if she wants to. She may be about to retire, or trying to keep a lower profile... and in that case a review could do her damage. And it's a POSITIVE review I'm talking about.

Negative reviews... rip offs, bait and switch's, etc etc and so forth, obviously do not deserve that consideration.

But when a lady has just shown you an amazing time that left you walking out the door with weak knees, how could it possibly be detrimental to any other hobbyists to give her the respect of saying... "Is it ok with you if I post a review?"

I think you guys are making much ado about nothing... and I think that asking that simple question is just a bit of kindness and courtesy that us ladies DO appreciate.

BTW ads that are paid for here, have NOTHING to do with reviews... and if a provider is well reviewed (peek at my reviews for example), and gets another positive review that has inaccurate information... don't ya think inaccurate info should be removed? Or, better to let all new clients *think* they'll be receiving certain services that do not in fact, exist???

Always the dissenting opinion...
Nicole

But I will say this...

Sometimes words sound VERRRRRRRRY different depending upon whose mouth they come out of. As an example... some hot blonde with a big ol' bootie says to you... "C'mere ya big stud!"  VS... some hot GAY MALE says to you... "C'mere ya big stud!"

Completely different, wouldn't you say???

Depending on how it's done, talking dirty to me or about me or reviewing me explicitly can be... really hot! Or it could... potentially... offend me (hard to do, but... anything is possible!).  So there's no easy answer to your question. For me at least, the enthusiasm that comes thru in a review makes a big difference... when I can tell the reviewer was really THERE with me, enjoying me, and it comes thru in his words... vs. someone who was obviously just taking a random female body thru a few hoops.... s'different.

Does that make sense?
Hugs*
Nicole

You wrote, "BTW ads that are paid for here, have NOTHING to do with reviews."

Just a detail I wanted to make clear.

I've often wondered about this. I'd really like to see an ad-free website idea that is either non-profit or run by volunteers. Perhaps it's just a pipedream because I very rarely see any website of any significant complexity that doesn't have ads.

I've very much wanted to run a pure info site based on my own business which is 3d software (computer graphics). I've also done quite a lot of writing of software reviews and I have seen quite a few high traffic sites run by enthusiasts in their spare time. So I'm guessing that is probably possible to do the ad-free, info-only thing without compromising the review integrity by taking advertising dollars from the businesses you review.

Overall, I don't think there's a simple answer to this question over ad-run versus info-only. TER does straddle the fence and perhaps successfully. With enough reviews for a provider I believe you probably do get an accurate representation.

Finally, I think if a reviewer has lied about something the provider did, it should require the writer of the reviewer to agree (without coercion) that he did indeed make a mistake. For that reason the TER handle should probably not be known during visits to providers.

But I didn't feel like researching it before I posted... thanks for clearing that up!
Hugs*
Nicole

If I am asked to be a reference for a client, my response is either... "He's a nice guy," Or "He's a psycho, don't see him!" Nice guys get our confidentiality... and that nice guy had to give my name as a reference in the first place for me to be contacted, so that is obviously tacit consent for me to say "He's a nice guy!"  I don't think that invades anyone's privacy or shows any lack of respect whatsoever.

On the other hand, I really don't see how using a little common courtesy prior to posting a POSITIVE review of a lady, causes reviews to be tainted or useless. Note I did not say NEGATIVE reviews... if you're posting a rave review of someone, it's just BEING NICE f'goodness sakes.. it is not some evil plot, some sneaky underhanded tainting of the reviews. And if he's posting a rave review, why would he be wanting to HIDE who he is from the lady? I can tell you that I know who wrote every single one of my reviews... I didn't speak to them all about it, but I know exactly who each gentlemen is.

Obviously just like a client who is a psycho and beats someone up doesn't deserve our respect or confidentiality, neither does a lady who provides a horrible session (or lack thereof, as the case may be).  

The problem is that the folks who are going to write lying, inaccurate reviews, who have an ax to grind, or whatever their motive is... ain't gonna ask a ladies permission anyways... and I don't think, aside from a TER staff member sitting in on sessions, there's any way to ensure that any review is 100% factual.  Use them as what they are... a general guide... 'cuz splitting hairs over it isn't going to help.

Hugs*
Nicole