Coming from a culturally diverse background, I do not think that my culture would consider a hobbyist as one being a "loser".  Instead, they would be considered fortunate enough to be from a high economic status to afford the finer things in life, especially at the level most of us here are talking about.  In fact, in many higher level business transactions, favors of this sort are offered as an incentive to "close the deal".  Just a different perspective...

I think MyLifeAsMe was referring to "Players!".  You know, those guys that the fly Jock (Tom Joyner) teases about in his morning show.  MyLifeAsMe comes across very well, though a bit old school, these days, the secret is out, not all brothers are Players!

I always like to say, that this hobby is NOT FOR PLAYERS, sure plenty of pimps though!

Joey

Someone suggested I try putting an escort ad on Adult Friend Finder.com (AFF) as a way to build up some business in the mainstream community. I had an ad for about two months before it got too time-consuming.

Since AFF does not officially allow ads for escorts, I had to be careful not to use the word "escort" in my AFF profile. However, I threw in all kinds of statements like "looking for generous men", "mature men preferred", "no-strings fun", "let's have fun for an hour or two"; etc, and then I put in some of my PG-rated bikini shots.

I received a ton of hits and replies--in fact the response was overwhelming. Unfortunately, 90% did not realize I was an escort. After telling them, 100% wrote back politely telling me they would NEVER pay for sex...although they would still love to meet me as a friend sometime.

So, it was a wake-up call to me that the mainstream white middle class American male still considers it a stigma to pay for sex.

The 10% who did understand my "code" phrases were hobbyists already and they were great to deal with.

Thank goodness for TER and you worldly gentlemen who understand the politics of sex, money, and the ability to have a win-win situation for both men and women!

Gotta admit I didn't read each and every post in that particular thread until you brought it to my attention.  I must admit I find it mildly offensive and if you can't figure out why, well I am not going to explain it.

What I would say now is when I was younger and available to outside civilians, I did not see providers because I trained and worked in an environment which was 70-80% woman.  I was considered a more than desirable catch because of income and prestige potential at least within that environment.  In other words a buyers market, no need to pay, hell mostof the time I went "dutch".  

As I have gotten older, My tastes haven't changed all that much but I have a S/O.  I wouldn't want to embarrass her with an affair so it is just more convenient and easier. to pay for it.  I don't feel defeated by this, it just makes life easier and I can afford it.  Would I show off my ATF the way some men show off their new car or boat, noooo.  But I think that's true regardless of race.

Now if we had a party the way some high end escort agencies do, I might consider going depending on time and city, just to meet some fellow hobbyists in person and if I were single I would bring my ATF into town, but I am not so I don't.

I disagree that hobbying is the perfect solution but for now, it works for me.
Ultimately I suspect a change in my living arrangement with my SO is going to be the solution and not the hobby.

by the way, I tell my kids in a couple of hundred years, everyone will have intermarried and people won't be so hung up on race because they will all be the same color.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE WEEKEND TO ONE AND ALL

It is cheaper to see a provider than to get into a realtionship based on sex.  Besides the women are nicer.

I have a lot of black friends and they just want sex more than all my friends of other ethnic groups. Who knows why?

And the reason they won't pay is simple - they are much less demanding when it comes to looks. How many black pro athletes are married to women who are not very attractive and/or overweight? Almost all (at least a much higher percentage) white celebrities have hot wives/girlfriends. We white guys want good looking women and quite a few of us are willing to go without rather than have sex with a woman who does not do anything for us in the looks department. And a white guy will get hazed badly by his friends if they know he's doing a less than attractive women. On the other hand black guys make fun of guys who aren't getting any.

The further away you get from an urban financial center the more "rednecked" the views on paid companionship get. If the level of acceptance was as bad in LA as it is here in Riverside I doubt there would even be a TER web site.
   Even though it is hell on my budget I'm glad I'm one of the "enlightened" to consider this my  
                  "Millenium Dating"

I don't tell. Others, whether friend or foe, don't know that I hobby. I (naturally) don't criticize those who do hobby, but I don't know what OTHER people think about it. They might criticize, they might not; and I pick which battles I make public. For example, I'll protest against the war for oil more than the war against sex, although both are in the long term simple products of the same isolationist puritanical culture.

Since it's "counter cultural" and also brings potential negative consequences, I simply don't court possible problems.

But I think an interesting point about the racial division is being glossed over here. The first post (in the other thread) mentioned that "brothers" don't -- and I think there has been a long-standing cultural assumption in America that black men are somehow "better" at landing a civilan date, and (probably) at fucking her well also. With that goes the assumption that the targets of those black men (whoever they choose to fuck civilian-wise) are probably more sexual, and therefore (a) less desirable as long-term partners and (b) less "classy" for things like educated jobs and the like. To fuck a black man was, for a long time, to label yourself trashy.

That's obviously unfortunate, and a gross generalization, too. But times are changing, and the obscene assumptions we make about racial stereotypes are changing with them. Now, even a black guy can be a loser with women!

And there's another assumption, which has been discussed well in these threads. The idea that a man is a loser if he "has to" book paid-for-dates rather than has the "charm" or panache to land a civilian partner easily. It makes you, in our culture, a less-than-good male, who can't live up to his potential, and to social expectations, if he can't coax a woman into bed with him regularly, without paying for it.

I can't. It has something to do with prevailing attitudes about the exchange of sex for economic support in our society; and with the attitudes about who is "allowed" to have one-night-stands (smart people aren't, evidently); and the other assumptions. And it also has to do with my own ability to navigate those assumptions -- I quite frankly can't pinpoint it, as to why I do so poorly in attempts to hook up with civilian partners. I have lots going for me, most of which evidently is utterly beside the point. I resent greatly the power that the civilian women have over me in this regard, and feel that it is mostly wielded without mercy or, even, concern that it is being wielded at all.

So, I've been "forced" to see providers STRICTLY because I can't get laid in a more socially sanctioned way. I find the lack of choice to be the biggest disadvantage. If I were a royal stud, who could land a hottie by just striding into a bar and making intense eye-contact, I might still choose to patronize providers. But then it would be CHOOSING, not being DRIVEN TO it. And when I find a place in my life where this democracy actually offers me an egalitarian opportunity to choose, and work for, my own wellbeing ... I'll invite you all along for the ride, because it hardly exists in most arenas, sexual or not.

tend to be "better" at s$x, and all of it's nuances (obviously a wide variance here among services provided) because they practice the art of pleasing on a regular basis. This is one reason I seek out escorts, variety being another, and I enjoy a healthy sex life at home with my SO.

I rarely pursue women in a social setting, nothing much beyond flirting and conversation, but have had an occasional daliance here and there over the years. I ran very hard in my early 20s when single, used all of those player's lines, bedded women for sport as much as pleasure.

The racial/cultural angle that a few have opined on here, difficult to quantify, and frankly I couldn't care less who chooses to pay for companionship, who doesn't and why.

I treat my favs very well, long appointments, dinner, trips to Vegas for a select few. And I enjoy all of the subtleties of a GF type relationship with a few of them while we're together, great s$x, casual friendships with a few ladies I see and a few I know in the biz, mostly in Vegas. MfSD.

This is an interesting thread.  I happen to be a lawyer.  People come to me with their problems.  They spend several hundred dollars to talk to me and get my advice.  They go away feeling better.  I may be able to do something for them, too.  

Some years ago, I decided to see a shrink.  I went to his office every week.  I paid about $200 an hour to talk to him.  Sometimes he actually responded.  Sometimes I walked out of there feeling better.

From my point of view, there is no difference between what a provider does and what I do or the shrink does -- or for that matter, any other range of professionals.  It's an even exchange: money for professional services.  Frankly, the money I've spent on providers has been far more effective in getting my head on straight and making me happy than money spent on shrinks.  

I think there is hideous cultural and demographic prejudice against providers and those who see them.  Of course, there's also prejudice against lawyers, shrinks and other professionals (e.g., only "crazy people" see therapists).  But the prejudice against providers and hobbyists goes beyond a matter of degree.