Damn straight people! And to you Mr. Al Queda, let me remind you of the a statement from days gone by from the father of the American Navy. I have not yet begun to fight! Give em hell Navy! And the rest of you guys too!
I found this on another board....Thought it was fitting to share, given some of the recent discussions. The images are as painful now as they were a year ago...but it was said one time "Those who forget the past...are doomed to repeat it".
Be Well and Be Safe...
Lass
-- Modified on 9/9/2002 10:31:31 PM
Thank you for providing that link. I believe it is important for all of us to never forget,,,,,while it is painful to watch and read all of this again,,,,,,,,,,,I do think we all need to be reminded,,,as is normal for this country's citizens,,,,,,a lot of them seem to have lost their anger,,,,,,and have gone about their lifes, as normal,,,,,and reverted back to their Leftist ways......I for one will never forget,,,,,,and can't wait until we get all of those bast@rds
Kathy, I couldnt agree more with your comments. The last few days focus on 9-11 by the media has helped me keep focused on our country's war and, since I live in Arlington, to be constantly reminded of what our priorites must be.
Cheerleading for jingoistic hatred, and slamming those Americans who differ from you politically, both seem a little uncalled-for and off-topic in this particular forum, Kathy. Maybe I could see it if you wanted to advertise a special on America's tallest remaining man-made superhardened twin-tower structure, for such clients as show up in brown shirts and jack boots ... that would at least have some direct relevance to what TER is about ... but then, the advertising of such specials is restricted to the regional boards, isn't it?
First off,,,the only reason I put up my link,,,was to let others know who "pinklips" is,,,not for any advertising!!! I wanted those who read this board, to know just who "pinklips" is,,,,,,,and my personal views on the subject. You are very wrong,,,this country needs to remember the the events of 9/11,and the cowardly actions of a few,(many) Islamic a$$holes. I suppose if you were alive back in 1941, you would have said the same thing to me if I expressed my anger and hate against the Japanese. If we had more like you back in '41,we wouldn't have won WW2!!! In my life I have fought for the right of free speech, your entitled to your opinion,,,,,,,,,however,,,,don't tell me I'm wrong to post my opinion on this or any other board! I've never posted on this particular board before, but I do read most boards weekly, and I can't believe some of the drival that I read,,,,,little inside jokes between cliques,,,,most of it remindes me of high school, girls and boys, who have no life. This is a general disscussion board,,,,,,so I believe that means it can be about anything that you'd like to post. I did and I will defend my right to do so.
-- Modified on 9/10/2002 9:19:28 AM
Yes Kathy, you do have a right to express your opinion, as do I. Had I been alive in 1941, I'm sure I would have been incensed by what happened. However, I would have been rash to judge the entire nation of Japan based on the actions of their military. Always remember that in any conflict, be it military, terrorist or economic, the civilians are always the pawns. Even Afghans and members of the Islamic faith in general. Yes, there are always civilians who agree with the actions of their military, but very often they're in the minority. We must concentrate our vengeance on the true perpetrators and avoid broad generalizations (easier said that done, I'll admit).
It's a sad irony of the human condition that we must fight for peace.
My reference to few (many) did not mean that ALL Islamic are to be hated, it was refering to all that hate us,,,,,,,and would like nothing better that to see many thousands more of us killed, I believe that there are more than (many) who either belong to Al Queda or some other alphabet orgainization, that relishes in our tragedy. As for the Japanese,,,,,,,I think history has showed that each and everyone,(including children) were ready to die for their country. If we hadn't dropped the bomb, it would have been a blood bath,,,,,on both sides!!!!!!!!!!!
No, just as you have not spoken to each and every one. However if you can't distinguish a generalization from fact, then it's time to go back to grade school. However, I will say this,I spend a great deal of my free time reading about WW2 , and watching the History Channel about WW2, it fascinates me. I have yet to watch one show where it has not shown the population of Japan training to ward of the evil Americans,the population was ready to fight to the death, just as their soldiers were doing already. Films of old men and ladies with sticks sharpened to attack us, axes, shovels, swords, you name it, they were prepaired to use it. Films of children learning how to become proficient with anything they could get their hands on ,,,why,,,,to fight to the death,all for their Empire. Have you seen any of the films of what the Japanese did to the people of China??? I'm not ignorant of the fact that not each and everyone was against us,,,,,,,however I'm not blinded by leftist bleeding heart liberal thinking,,,, to think that the great majority of the Japanese people were for us, and against their country's policy, and that they were pawns. Now I suppose your next statment will condem us for using the bomb. I guess it would have been better to kill who knows how many millions of them,as we thought we might lose a million men,and at that time we were killing 10 for everyone of ours that was killed. So,,,,,,I don't know which history books you've been reading,,or what types of T.V. shows on the subject you've seen,,,,,,,,,maybe the shows and books were the ones produced by the Japanese Goverment,,,,,,as they still refuse to acknowledge the atrocities they committed, and have only admitted a small bit of knowlege regarding their practice of kidnapping women, and forcing them to be sex slaves!!!
Not only have you stated things that are true based on the considerable amount of reading/research I've done regarding WWII, there is much more that could be added. Lead off with the "Rape of Nanking" where approximately 200,000 people (mostly civilians--more than Hiroshima & Nagasaki combined) were murdered..after the city has already been captured. Many of those victims were gleefully beheaded two different commanders in a "contest" to see which one was best with his sword. And there is the use of both chemical & biological agents against the civilian population in occupied Northern China to test the effectiveness. It is also factual that the Japanese Empire was working on an atom bomb themselves, & there is no evidence to logically suggest they would have hesitated for even a moment to use it.
Actually it makes no difference what percentage of the Japanese civilian population was ready to die, for they had little control. I think the fact that it took a second atomic bomb to convince the military establishment, who was in control, to surrender speaks volumes about how determined they were.
This is not intended as any sort of rant at or about the Japanese people, just a statement about their leadership at the time. Nor do I agree that the U.S. was right in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor with instituting the policy of forced relocation of Japanese citizens living here.
There is no nation in the world without some blemishes in it's history, & that includes the U.S. However, while I'm cognizant of many things in our policies with which I disagree, I'm not about to get to the point of a hand-wringing guilt trip either.
First of all, I believe that alot of this 9-11 stuff is propaganda from our government designed to re-instill support for their policies, specifically toward Al Qaeda (which I agree with) and other mid-east entities like Iraq (which for now would be a mistake) which I disagree with. As an American that spent 12 years manning the walls of our freedom, including 2 tours of duty in Vietnam, and as an American with a son currently in the military, and as a native New Yorker who lost 2 friends in the World Trade Center, I think long and hard about committing our soldiers in this weird world we live in. I believe that the main thrust must be to destroy the abilities of the terrorists to commit acts of terror all over the world, and all else can wait for now. Mrweeno, you would have hated all the Japanese just like every other American did in 1941, just like the flood of hatred and suspicion against Islam in 2001. Most Moslems, not all, but especially those living here, are as peace-loving as any other identifiable group. All they want to do is earn a living and take care of their families. They came here for the same reasons my grandparents came here from Russia and Poland 100 years ago. Point is, we should remember 9-11, we should teach our children never to forget the Alamo, Pearl Harbor or 9-11, but to rag on and on does nobody any good, other than George W and Company. And if any store ever comes up with a 9-11 sale, I'll bomb it.
I will agree with you on the part of the people of Islamic faith,,,,,,,,however it is impossible to stop terrorists,,,,,take their money away,,,,,,,,,,,it won't stop them!!! After 9/11, when I was in DC on a tour, I stayed in a hotel just blocks from the White House. All I had to do,,,,,,if I was a nut,,,,,,was to lean out my window with a rocket launcher, and I could have blown away the front door. Who could have stopped me,,,,,no one looks in your luggage when you check in. Unfortunately,as long as someone hates the (other guy, or country), things will never stop. But I do believe that Iraq is up to no good, and he must be stopped,,only this time,,,,,lets finish the job!!!!!! I do believe that we should wait, but for how long,,,only until we have the backing of our allies, and possibly the U.N.
I agree with you about Iraq and Saddam, but it just doesn't seem to be the right time, yet. Priorities and allocation of assets. As far as stopping the terrorists, you need to destroy as many of them as possible, destroy and/or comprimize their bases of operation, and create an environment that helps to prevent them from recruiting more. Creating that environment is probably the most important of those. Like really working for a solution to the Israeli - Palestinian dilemma and getting those poor people out of the DP camps and into a society that thrives and doesn't require acts of terror against Israel or us to make a point. That might mean the same fate for Mr. Arafat as we would like for Mr. BinLaden.
But the real reason I replied is to tell you that I love your name, Pinklips!
F.
Well spoken. I agree with your views of our government. Personally, I plan on spending 9/11/02 at The Wall visiting friends and praying that we will never have need of another memorial commemorating the loss of our finest young men. I lost many friends in Southeast Asia and still miss them. They were some of the finest to ever walk the face of the earth. I suppose that is why I tend to be a bit of a peacenik. If neccessary, I would gladly do it all again in defense of my country, but cannot support the needless loss of our finest just to maintain George W. Bush's approval rating. Something inside me snaps whenever I think about someone who used wealth and priveledge to keep him out of Viet Nam sending our best in harm's way. Please, Mr. President, have wisdom enough to not needlessly shed the blood of innocents if at all possible.
Especially your appeal to George W. Wouldn't it be a hoot if he was a member here. Good idea for a contest, a TER handle for George W. Bush. Bushwacker? Bushwhipped?
I vote for "Bushleague".
Hey, I'm just envious of George W. that I can't make $14 mil as a part-owner of the Rangers, just because my daddy wasn't pres.
-- Modified on 9/11/2002 10:06:44 AM
Well look at it this way. As long as you keep your powder dry and your dick hard, The worm will turn. What goes around will, come around and that's a fact Jack!
To begin with your posting on TER, not TBD. Look around, links on this board are not forbidden.
Second, Kathy rarely posts and there are very few people that know who "Pinklips" is. She could of signed off as Kathy Willets but, then, if you didn't recognize the name, you still wouldn't know who she is. Now everyone can know.
Third, if you're going to try to use more than two syllable words, you could at least try to pick one a little more suited (I seem to have missed any mention of patriotism or any nationality at that rate) and, please, use correct grammar throughout the message. My own is questionable due to the format but I'm not trying to pick one word out that sounds impressive and is almost used in the correct context(if you choose to be known as a Greek orator, I would expect you to say something worthy of hearing).
Fourth, don't complain of other's correct use of the English language just for the purpose of trying to bend it to your meaning. "Leftist" and "rightist" do explain a political orientation (similar to "Muslim" and "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Taoist" explain religious orientations) and have been used to express particular beliefs. Kathy at least states her beliefs; should we consider you to be a typical (if outdated lawyer) whose beliefs hinge on where you think you will make a profit? Your own comments of the clients you disagree with, the "clients as show up in brown shirts and jack boots", display your own political beliefs.
Finally, you're argument should be directed toward Celtic Lass, if anyone. She has identified herself and posted a message that, according to you, should "at least have some direct relevance to what TER is about". Let's just remember, this hobby should not include human feelings; EVER (for those of you who missed this, this is sarcasm).
My rant in return
Thanks for showing, once again, why YMMV will always relate
DrX
-- Modified on 9/11/2002 1:11:28 AM
Both Kathy (pinklips) and DrX seem to suppose that in my previous post I was objecting to Kathy's posting of her link with her message. I was not. My remark (about not advertising specials here) was just by way of ruefully rejecting a proposal that I myself had made; and both these moves were in a spirit of sarcasm. Perhaps DrX is wiser than I in labeling his sarcasms as such.
I confess I was a little over the top with that sarcasm of mine, for which I apologize to Kathy (though no one has yet said a word about the worst of it). But I have to say I was seriously offended by the way Kathy sneered at leftism as if it were not a principled ideology embraced by lots of very good Americans, but merely a defect of moral stamina--and by the way she apparently assumed that we're all right-wingers here.
By contrast, I had no objection to Celtic Lass's post, even though it may have been a bit OT. If anything, what got my goat in gear was the vast contrast in tone between the good-hearted stuff that Lass had to say and Kathy's hate-filled reply. That was before I noticed that the slide-show to which Lass's post linked included stills of Palestinians rejoicing in the streets, from footage that was shot on a totally different occasion but that unscrupulous U.S. broadcasters pulled out of archives a year ago, and broadcast in deliberately misleading context, just to inflame ethnic hatred. But I gladly give Lass the benefit of the doubt on that. For her post was not about jingoistic (would you prefer the term 'genocidal,' DrX?) hatred of Muslims or Arabs, or lust for bloody revenge, or dividing Americans into Us and Them. There was not a trace of any of that that I could tell. Kathy's post, by contrast, was in large part about precisely those things. I may have trusted my gut reaction too far in reading her post, but when she responded to my "rant," she only confirmed my worst hunches.
By the way, DrX, please specify more clearly what flaw(s) you find in my grammar or usage in my prior post. I have re-examined it and do not find a problem. With your superior understanding of these matters, please condescend to educate me. As I am in the habit of editing my posts with some little care before I post them, I cannot even claim that "the format" excuses any lapses I may commit.
First of all lets get one thing perfectly straight,,,,,,I understood your remark,,it reminded me of a Sophomoric, chauvinistic remark, and that's why I did not reply to it. Of course, I would expect no more from a guy, NOT ALL, but some like to think that the boards are their personal little club,and they only tolerate us girls when we post,,,,,,,and when a girl comes out with an intelligent point of view, she usually gets attacked in one form or another.......I find it very amusing that not one other girl who has posted her view, as "let's go get them" has not been attacked like I have. As for my statment of liberals,, I never said anything to imply that it is not a principled ideology,,,just that I don't agree with it. I think I made it very clear what my opinions were regarding the fanatical terrorists......I'll say it again,,,,,let's get all of them. For one year we have had to deal with the loss of thousands of inocent civilans being murdered,,and the heartache that goes with it,,,,,,,their families, friends, who have been devestated, our country thrown into turmoil,,,none of us really ever feeling completely safe again, You bet cha,,,let's get them all,,,,,of course that only means the BAD ONES!! As for the archived video,,,who cares if it was,,,,,do you actually think that they didn't rejoice when we were attacked,,,or if we are again,,,,,,it shows their mindset,,,,,their hatred for us.
Suppose Al-Jazeera or some earlier Arab broadcaster had taken footage of Americans rejoicing on 4 July 1976, on the occasion of America's bicentennial, and then had broadcast it six years later, so as to make it seem as if we were rejoicing at the massacres in the Sabra and Shatila Palestinian refugee camps. Would such a fraud make no difference? For all I know, something very much of this sort may have contibuted to the events of a year ago.
-- Modified on 9/11/2002 10:52:07 PM
First of all, I believe the video that you are refering to ,,was in fact taken after the attacks on our country,,,,,,as I believe it showed them watching the reports on T.V, and them holding up newspaper accounts of the attacks. Now lets go to the part that I love the most. " WHAT IF",,,"WHAT IF BIRDS HAD RADIOS IN THEIR ASSESS, THERE'D BE MUSIC IN THE AIR",,,,anyone can come up with a million different scenarios, but lets get real here. I don't really think this country, or the news oranizations, need to put up false video of these fanatics,,,,,they seem to express themselves quite easily when they are pleased over inocent people being murdered. I suppose the video of our soldiers being dragged thru the streets in Somalia,,,were trumped up.
No need to give me the benefit of the doubt Antiphon, those pictures WERE taken the day of and day after the attacks. I saw the footage of those people dancing in the streets, that particular woman passing out cake as they burned the American Flag and held up Papers showing images of the Towers burning.
My political views on this subject are very strong...just like Kathy. But my own personal spiritual views teaches me to fight those demons on my own. But as I have said. Kathy has a RIGHT as does anyone here to express her opinion. What I do find fascinating is that so many are eager to jump on the bandwagon and slam Kathys views when if you read thu the posts alot of people say the same thing, only worded differently.
I am sorry the debate that stemmed from my post has gotten ugly. Kathy for what its worth, I do respect and value your opinion. I hope your day had some happiness in it...mine did. I kept my daughter home from school and we just spent the day together. It was lovely.
xoxox
Lass
-- Modified on 9/11/2002 11:16:13 PM
I'm glad to hear that your day was a good one, mine was also. Thanks for your wisdom, but don't ever feel that you need to say your sorry, discussions are good,,,,,,I just wish some of the people who post would learn how to debate,without personal attacks. I'm sure that you are aware that I don't have a problem with defending myself or my beliefs,and I won't back down from my views,,,,,even though I get attacked personally. I look forward to the day that we can meet, as I have heard and noticed only great things about you.
nicely done antiphon. the "America's tallest remaining man-made superhardened twin-tower structure" comment had me rolling on the floor. Even hours later it still brings on a chuckle. You are my new hero! good day sir!
There are some of us ole timers on this board who volunteered and served in the military during the Southeast Asia conflict. I have not forgotten but a majority of Americans forgot us or treated us like war criminals when we came home. You can express your opinion on this board and in many different venues throughout this country thanks to the veterans who gave their lives so that you can do so. I still serve proudly and know of many reserve and active military personnel who are serving in Afganistan, Cuba, and places the majority of us on this board could not begin to imagine of going there. I still get a lump in my throat and weep without shame when I say the Pledge of Allegiance. I would volunteer again as I did in 1967 if I had to do it over. Forget?? HELL NO!!
"This Aint No Rag" Charlie Daniels
-- Modified on 9/10/2002 3:40:48 PM
-- Modified on 9/10/2002 3:42:14 PM
Amen, Brother, and welcome home! Only veterans fully understand. Only those of us who have manned the walls I believe can fully understand the feelings and emotions you so eloquently describe.
. . . or Afghanistan, or hadn't made the world (or at least Kuwait) safe for feudalism (and oil companies) ten years ago?
To assume that U.S. military violence abroad is always praiseworthy because our fighters FEEL that they are in it for our freedom, is no more logical than assuming that Atta & Co. acted nobly because they FELT that what they were doing was the will of "Allah, the merciful, the compassionate."
......I for one will never forget,,,,,,and can't wait until we get all of those bast@rds
The impression I got is that "all those bastards" basically includes a large group - presumably all Muslims who have objections to US foreign policy such as siding with despots throughout the middle east - including supporting Saddam at times. The "bad guys" at least all those that we know "did it" are all dead. We don't even "know" if Osama simply inspired, trained and capitalized on an ingenious terrorist entrepreneur who may have been Atta or actually mapped out the program.
So I find hatred you show for a good chunk of the world's people doesn't become you. You are obviously a beautiful and skilled courtesan, but there are more of us out their who differ with your political opinion. I had tried to make an appointment with you, and failed to my regret. For other reasons I can't now, but I think you may agree that some people have such opinions that you wouldn't feel comfortable taking their money or giving them money. That's how I feel. I wouldn't pay a provider who prefers hate to love.
Americans have been successfully manipulated by the Bush regime to think that 9-11 and a war against Iraq are in some way connected. All we can say with confidence is that 19 strange people, 15 of whom were Saudi's, who were inspired, & perhaps trained by Osama bin Ladin, pulled off an incredibly destructive and audacious act. They, through this act and our reaction to it have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Our thoughtless counter-attact against Afganistan, with our wanton destruction of the lives of the innocent, (including 4 Canadian allied soldiers that our weekend warriors in the air national guard apparently criminally killed) itself will sow the seeds of incredibly greater hatred of America than ever existed before and not just in the Islamic world. Try a trip to Europe, or Canada, to see how we Americans are viewed today. We're more feared than respected.
OK...wasn't even going to chime in on this due to my perception it might end up as one of those idiotic threads dealings primarily with politics & endless discussions about foreign policy etc, & all the bull-shit that goes with them which never changes anyone's original mindset.
But chiming in is something I must do, regardless of the fact that I already posted in an earlier thread today, & regardless of the fact that I exspended many words on the subject a year ago.
All this should not be about political, religious, or ethnic beliefs. To my mind, anyone who buys into those concepts becomes a 'foolish, but useful tool.' Anyone who has suffered the pain of having a loved one lost or maimed undestands this already all too well, as do those who have ever served in combat situations...it's then a frigging question of survival & no other arguement is even thought about, much less being of any importance.
While I do not speak from direct personal knowledge (fortunate for me, I suppose) I was well trained in the military & what it means to be in service to our country & to its principles.
This is yet another time to recognize the uncountable sacrifices of so many who make our way of life possible. And if I may be permitted an advance remark to those who disagee, & I know there are some...grab a rife, get in the trenches opposite someone who desparately wants to kill you & couldn't give a flying F about whether or not you supported the government policies that led to you being there in the first place.
No...I definitely don't agree with everything our government does or has done. But to disrespect those who have in some way made sacifics for my right to disagree is so far beyond shameless that I can't even begin to put into words the way that makes me feel.
I couldn't agree more,,,,very wise words!!!
Damn straight people! And to you Mr. Al Queda, let me remind you of the a statement from days gone by from the father of the American Navy. I have not yet begun to fight! Give em hell Navy! And the rest of you guys too!
Thank you Lass for the link... it was a beautiful (but sad) presentation.
Today will be the anniversary of the senseless tragedy that struck our nation. Let us not forget the ignorance that did this but we have shown them and will continue to show that we are strong.
Today we will not forget the ones who lost their lives, the widowed, the parentless children, the friendless, the Heroes and America. My prayers will go out to them today and everyday.
Today is a day to remember "us" as Americans.... We have come a long way in this last year... and have a long way to go to heal from this. Today will be a day like no other.... we will never forget 9-11.
Let us put aside our bickering with one another and hatred.
LET'S KICK THEIR ASS! (LET'S RUMBLE!)
-- Modified on 9/11/2002 2:18:10 AM