As I spent some time this evening reading the board and all of the comments something came to mind, I would like to share.
I have many views, about many things, however I keep a life rule...not a biz rule, I need to be sure you understand. I do not try to convince anyone of what I believe, if someone ask I will share but in no way is it my purpose in life for others to believe or have passion for the things that I believe in. As an example#1  I will use the fact that I am completely against going to war. I will not however protest it, why because I feel that I need to be loyal to my country and those serving in our military for my freedom. I accept all points of view on politics and religion.Being accepting and respectful does not mean I believe or agree I just respect others as intelligent human beings. example #2- abortion, as a woman, I believe that women have a right to decide what to do with our bodies & have healthcare if needed. As a Catholic I do believe the fetus is a human being  from conception, as a mother I would never wish a decission like this upon anyone it must be the hardest decission and many have  proven women do not ever forget about their unborn child that was given up.
I do not believe everything is black n white, but many shades of grey.

I am happy and content because I think I am.
by: Alain-Rene Lesage

 Thank you for allowing me to express my feelings
Mara of San Diego

Persuasive rhetoric first arose as a subject of study, or "art," in the original Greek democracies, and for very good reason.  In a real democracy, you get things done by persuading people to join you in your position, so that they will vote with you, and your proposal will win the approval of the majority in the Assembly.  

The growing American attitude that attempts to persuade one's fellow citizens on political questions are somehow rude, aggressive, and an invasion of personal space, is an index of just how very far away from democracy we have grown, culturally.  

I would suggest, moreover, that the leap is finally very short from "I respect your opinion too much to try to change it" to "I won't bother trying to persuade you because I don't give a sh!t what you think."

#2 Example: "On helmets and seatbelts" I as a homosapien, beleive that we should have the right to decide whether to wear a helmet or seatbelts, after all "It is my body"
Just a thought on another b.s. law.

Most of the people that I talk to among my family and friends are used to me asking questions about why they believe this or that, or what their sources are for the "facts" that they are quoting.

I think most people take simple questioning of their opinions and sources as an impugnment of their viewpoint. This is not the case.  When a specific question is asked, and an evasive answer is given, a good debater will point the person back to the original question, and ask them for supporting facts and sources.

This is not a personal attack on them, their ideas nor their viewpoints. It is simply establishing their position on the subject, and finding out what supporting facts or materials they have used to formulate their position or opinion. I think this is where it goes south for many people in our society, who are not used to debating, and take it as a personal attack.

I agree with Antiphon and NOSC that debate has given way to a disinterst in other peoples opinions.

I would add that in our current society we've also made the move to sophistry, which may account for the "news" that we all witness daily on television and radio.

I think debating is good and necessary. It is the basis of democracy. But a debate should be a time when you state your opinion and listen to your oponents state theirs, then try to counter them. As long as it is like this, then everybody benefits.

What is bad is when debates turns into name calling and finger pointing. When people refuse to listen to the opinion of others. It is not possible to debate with extremists, their minds are made up and nothing you say will change that. Then debate really is useless.

I completely agree with you on this one. It is usually the case most people enjoy the battle and stop listening. I have found myself in a situation that after everybody voice their opinion it made me think ,these disscussions it did give me a new perspective on a  particular subject. I do not mind debates and discussions however they always get out of hand, disrespectful and negative.
This is why I stay clear as much as I can.
Kisses & licks........
mara of san diego

You have it right. I wanted to see what people’s views were, yea or nay, and why they felt that way.  I wasn’t trying to debate, just to re-direct back to the original question. Then as most discussion strings do, we went off in other directions, myself included.

I did spend a lot of time on debate teams and got used to basing my points of view (right or wrong) on different sources.  A lot of times in formal debate settings you are given a subject and which side you will argue, pro or con.  

Sometimes we'd draw lots to see who argued which side, and other times we'd debate extemporaneously which side we should be allowed to argue.  Whoever presented the best case had the choice of pro or con in the upcoming debate.

HPG

It is not just your body. WHen you go hurling through your winshield or sustain a head injury that you would not have if you had been wearing a helmet, all those that love you suffer as well.

The medical costs, and insurance costs go up for all of us on injuries.  Of course I have a Docter friend who does transplants and he tells me thank god for the bikers who don't wear helmets. Most of the ones he sees are young and healthy, and make excellent organ donors..

we can rise above that level.  Just for the record, probably the most accomplished college debater who ever became President was none other than:  Tricky Dicky Nixon.

I really enjoy doing.  The name-calling and finger have nothing to do with persuasion.  It's just a question of maturity.