Write Review
2,069,957 Total Reviews 3,779 New Reviews
15,435 Users Online

TER General Board

Re:I disagree.
SexyCurvesDC 5319 reads
posted

Well honey, despite that jerk below calling me a "dominant" woman, I tend to follow my clients leads. Altho I will admit that if I'm trying to have a conversation with someone who is completely silent, I get nervous and either wind up babbling about things that sometimes I shouldn't (eeks!), or just kissing them and skipping the convo =:O I much prefer to follow, than lead, though.  It's not that hard to be polite and change the subject tho, which I guess you should have done, and one thing I will say is that... and I've talked to other ladies about this, too, and they all say it happens a LOT... some gents will ASK up front things like "How many men do you see?, how'd you get into the 'biz, how many men have you seen TODAY?"  I can never figure out if they're asking that because it turns them on to hear about it (it does, for some), or if they have some self-punishing desire to spoil the fantasy for themselves.

I'm good most of the time at figuring out what people want, but I'm *not* a mind reader, and I really do prefer to KNOW... and if I'm following someone else's lead, I do!

I did tell darned near everyone about the crisis I had with my doggies last month... but I kinda had to as I wound up having to take a week off, and then came back with a big dog bite on my hand =:O LOL No one seemed to mind, anyways. :) It made for good convo and I got lots of GREAT comforting! WOO HOO! :) Hehe!

Just keep in mind that MOST appointments start with a few minutes of convo, to help both parties relax... and you have to talk about SOMEthing. If you don't want to talk about sex (I can't imagine LOL), and you don't want to talk about her life, and you don't want to talk about your life, you have to find something you CAN talk about for a few minutes, which will allow you both to get comfortable. Maybe movies? TV? I don't know, whatever would fit your fantasy. I do offer fantasy sessions with very little talking involved or required tho :)
Hugs*
Nicole

Related Link: sexy-curves.com

jcozz5995 reads

I have a question for hobbyists and providers alike: How much reality (details about your private life) do you allow/like in a session?  I've had several experiences recently that have made me feel very uncomfortable (guilty?) and were ultimately a real turn-off.  

With one provider, while talking to her during her call-back, there was a constant "small child ruckus" in the background.  She interrupted our conversation several times to yell at the kid.  Even worse, she's also yelling at her husband (!) to take care of the kid!  Now, I don't know how others feel about this, but I should've followed my gut feelings and hung up right then and there.  To me there is just something too sleazy about making arrangements to screw another man's wife while you hear a kid running around in the background.  However, I hung on.

The session was no better.  While the provider was eager to please, I found the details she revealed about her private life to be a little intimidating; she loved anal and DP with her hubby and some of his friends, she really loved facials and had recently 3 guys at once splooge on her, and also thought that being in a Bukakke-type film would be the ultimate, etc.  I don't know about other guys, but when I'm with a provider, I don't need to hear the initmate details of her personal sexual encounters with dozens of other men!

At another provider's session (in the early afternoon) she let me know that she couldn't stay later than the agreed-upon time because she had to pick up her small daughter, whom she had left with her sister who was visiting HER daughter at the local children's hospital!  When I asked if her sister knew where she was and what she was doing, she said "yes, and she's not really happy about it."  Needless to say, I found it very hard to enjoy myself and attend to the tasks at hand.

Am I wrong for feeling that I don't want to know these little details of a provider's life, that I'm doing some little girl's mother, or some guy's wife?  How do others feel about this?  Am I being too selfish or unrealistic to expect that a provider keep her private details PRIVATE?  I think that for most men, a session involves a certain amount of fantasy, expecially to attain a GFE experience, but too much "reality" can have a very dampening effect on the action, at least for me.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

ReplyQuoteReport
Ozymandias5302 reads

I would say that it is totally inappropriate for a provider to allow her miserable life to infect her client relationship. The client is not just paying for her body, but the fantasy aspect also... this is why providers like to advertise themselves as "classy", "upscale", "elegant", etc... lets face it, a provider is pretty much from the bottom rung of society and the last person any one would regard as "upper-classed", and it is likely their lives are not especially charmed, but if the client wants exposure to the trailer park or ghetto, he can save a lot of money tagging a spa girl or streetwalker.

The role of the "escort" is to be as much actress as whore: the client, while he "knows" intellectually that she is servicing dozens of men a week, should "feel" that he is Number One in her presence... he is her "favorite customer" or he is the only one who "makes me come", and so on... known theatrically as Suspension of Disbelief. Maybe 10% or fewer of providers are capable of this level of professionalism, 80% are of the "lie down and spread and get it over with" mentality, and the other 10% are those who are far gone enough that they have their kid in the next room or something...your unfortunate situation.

I certainly have NO interest in a provider's personal life: I assume it isn't very pleasant. I don't want to know her real name, birthday, or anything... just like I don't care about the personal life of a store clerk who is ringing up my order.

Escort service should be just that: a service. It is not a favor (it would be free then.) Certainly the escort is deserving of common respect and decent treatment by the client, but the courtesy must be reciprocated, as well!

Reality has no place in the escort's bedroom.

O.

ReplyQuoteReport
John.Galt4930 reads

So what finishing school did you attend Ozymandias?

A provider is entitled to common respect huh? Like you calling her a whore and bottom rung?

I can see why reality is not a welcome guest in any bedroom you are in.

Your post was pretty harsh and painted all providers with a pretty broad brush. It was unwarranted and unfair.

-- Modified on 3/3/2002 10:59:44 AM

ReplyQuoteReport
Purelust6044 reads

ReplyQuoteReport
N.C.Tammy7483 reads

Thank you John for standing up for us.

Kisses and Hugs

Tammy

Related Link: http://www.geocities.com/iamadreamseeker/TLCTAM

ReplyQuoteReport
N.C.Tammy6405 reads

First I think you are looking for the hooker on 45 & 50th street not an eascort Ozymandias.
Second your very wrong in thinking that 80% of use are wam-bam-thank mams...and
Third I am suprised that you are still in the hobby and can find an escort to put up with you shitty attitude.
If you ever called me a whore while seeing you (which would never happen) I would do all I could to make sure you would be seeing streetgirls.
I'm sure we all have are backgrounds, that aren't right out of the fairy tales we would like them to be, But we are still women and should not be thought of, "nothing less"!!

Oh yah and Ozymandias what qualifications do have to prove to use you are not trailer trash or an total jerk.

Tammy

Related Link: http://www.geocities.com/iamadreamseeker/TLCTAM

ReplyQuoteReport
Desiree6599 reads

It is because of men like you that the societal norm thinks of us in that light.  Up until recently (in the scheme of all of history) we as providing women were generally respected and protected from imbiciles like yourself.

Along the same path of keeping our miserable existances to ourselves during your time, I would hope that you keep your under developed opinions and over amped ego to yourself.


Des

ReplyQuoteReport
Ozymandias6327 reads

You stated exactly what I was looking for:

"we as providing women were generally respected"

If there is something I really would like to see in the US provider/client scene, I suppose it would be the return of the "courtesan". My earlier and surprisingly incendiary statement was largely intended in a spirit of Swiftian irony; I falt the first poster's unfortunate experience nicely illuminated a regrettable trend that has in large measure been nurtured by "The Hobby".

There was a time, 10+ years ago, when there were "call girls": there were relatively few around, they were extremely expensive and exclusive, and some were specialized sorts of celebrities even in rather exclusive circles. These women were beautiful, elegant, could dress impeccably, and could hold their own in a range of conversational melieu. Sex was almost incidental, and men truly paid for the mere company of these women: essentially, they were courtesans.

The rise of the internet has permitted the formation of "the hobby"... a large society of men have formed who want to "sample" as many women as possible,"keep score", etc. Well, fine. The downside is that the market has responded; a horde of unqualified women have plastered the internet with ads for cut-rate, discount "escort services" that favor quantity over quality, have priced the courtesan out of the market, and have opened the field to a platoon of balding middle-management types who value mere physical escape from a dull life.

I value quality over quantity; I frankly have no interest in seeing how many different "providers" I can tag in a week... rather I value the (increasingly) rare interaction with a truly talented woman. Commonness ruins... when the hoi poloi is granted access, quality dies. Gentleman were received by courtesans, but "everyman" with a week's saved wages is blocking the door, eager for a quick rut, and there are a thousand everymen for every one man of education, civility, and taste... well, it is the free market, after all.

As I say, there is still some quality left... rhetorically I declare "10%", but I mean "few". And they grow fewer, still.

O.

ReplyQuoteReport
SexyCurvesDC5406 reads

Boy that was some post to read first thing in the morning. It's nice to hear that you consider my little house on its half acre of land in the country to be the "ghetto" or a "trailer,"  and to hear that you consider MY life to be ooooooh so miserable.  

You are so wrong I don't even know where to begin. And your "apology" was half-a*sed and incomplete... something you posted to appease all the people you just pissed off.  Maybe you have met ladies like this... I can name at least ten off the top of my head from across the country, who don't even come close to matching your description. And I don't KNOW that many ladies personally.  If your experiences are turning up no more than VERY VERY few ladies of quality, maybe it has more to do with you than you realize.  Sometimes you see what you expect to see.. and if you come to see me expecting to see a worthless dumb blonde, that's what you'll see.

There are more and more ladies like me entering the 'biz... not less and less. Ladies who are educated, who come from a good background, who've found something they enjoy and can make great money doing. If you don't see them, maybe it's because you're seeing what you CHOOSE to see.

As for the original poster... to me it sounds like that lady is of the porn star variety, or someone who wants to be a porn star... and ladies like that are going to tend to be more open about their lifestyle, as it's a much bigger part of their life. Some men are turned on by that, some aren't. I am 1000% happy with my sexuality... which is indeed, what makes this profession work so well for me. I love exposing people to new ideas about sexuality that run counter to what our completely screwed up society beats into us.  It doesn't make me "trashy", altho in YOUR view it might, but your view is irrelevant to me. I wouldn't gab about it unless you asked, but if you asked I'd be happy to discuss it.  I'm certainly sorry he had a negative experience, but to spout BS about all escorts being trashy and "trailer trash" based on that, is ridiculous, and if anything speaks more of your class level than it does of any of the ladies in question.  

As for the lady remarking upon picking up her child... JEEEEEZE!!!! I think that's a ridiculous complaint. Odds are she was trying to be considerate and explain why her time that day was limited... when she could've simply said "get out."  Yanno no one can please everyone all the time.

Nicole

ReplyQuoteReport
jcozz4460 reads

Nicole: I hope that you haven't confused some of the anal comments that Mr. O made with my original posting.  I would never, and never have, refer to anyone as being "trashy and trailer trash".  My mother brought this boy up better than that! :-)

As for your comment about your sexuality: I am very open to trying new things, but I just don't need to hear that you've done those things with x-number of men before.  Maybe it's along the same line as the little white lie that some men tell themselves, that their wives and girlfriends didn't screw their brains out before they met them.  Every man likes to kid himself and think that he's the Only One.  You might consider it what our screwed-up society beats into us, but I consider it privacy.  While you and I both know that you may have an extensive sexual history, while you're with me, I want you to BE with me, and not telling me all about...

And last, I didn't relate more about my encounters, as I was trying to be brief and not give away more identifying details.  But, in addition to hearing about her kid and her sister's sick kid, I also had to put up with stories about her sister's efforts to get her out of the Life, and her recent 90-day bite at the county jail.  Now, YOU try and keep an erection while listening to this!  And unfortunately for me, I'm too shy and polite to tell her to put a sock in it, because I don't want to piss her off and make her leave.  What do you think I should've done?

Thanks for answering...and listening.

ReplyQuoteReport
SexyCurvesDC5320 reads

Well honey, despite that jerk below calling me a "dominant" woman, I tend to follow my clients leads. Altho I will admit that if I'm trying to have a conversation with someone who is completely silent, I get nervous and either wind up babbling about things that sometimes I shouldn't (eeks!), or just kissing them and skipping the convo =:O I much prefer to follow, than lead, though.  It's not that hard to be polite and change the subject tho, which I guess you should have done, and one thing I will say is that... and I've talked to other ladies about this, too, and they all say it happens a LOT... some gents will ASK up front things like "How many men do you see?, how'd you get into the 'biz, how many men have you seen TODAY?"  I can never figure out if they're asking that because it turns them on to hear about it (it does, for some), or if they have some self-punishing desire to spoil the fantasy for themselves.

I'm good most of the time at figuring out what people want, but I'm *not* a mind reader, and I really do prefer to KNOW... and if I'm following someone else's lead, I do!

I did tell darned near everyone about the crisis I had with my doggies last month... but I kinda had to as I wound up having to take a week off, and then came back with a big dog bite on my hand =:O LOL No one seemed to mind, anyways. :) It made for good convo and I got lots of GREAT comforting! WOO HOO! :) Hehe!

Just keep in mind that MOST appointments start with a few minutes of convo, to help both parties relax... and you have to talk about SOMEthing. If you don't want to talk about sex (I can't imagine LOL), and you don't want to talk about her life, and you don't want to talk about your life, you have to find something you CAN talk about for a few minutes, which will allow you both to get comfortable. Maybe movies? TV? I don't know, whatever would fit your fantasy. I do offer fantasy sessions with very little talking involved or required tho :)
Hugs*
Nicole

Related Link: sexy-curves.com

ReplyQuoteReport
jcozz4488 reads

Nicole: This is the last posting I'm going to make on this subject; there are too many other fun things to gab about, LOL!  I never thought that my original posting would be the catalyst for such strong feelings, but I suppose I have the lofty verbiage of the much-slammed "Oz" to thank for that!  

Like you, I could agree with the spirit and intention of some of O's statements, just not the way he put them across.  He should consider himself to be extremely lucky, to have attained a station in life that seems to allow him to savor the finer things.  Unfortunately, he seems to be a little too busy lording his superiority over the rest of us for his comments to be appreciated.  I hope to Hell that someday, I too will be able to have "courtesan experiences", lasting several hours over dinner, over the weekend, whatever.  Hell, if I could, I'd go for $12,000-a day Sarah from California, LOL!!  I certainly appreciate the fact that good conversation, good wine, a fine meal, etc., will help to pave the way for an exquisite intimate experience, but I think that due to time limitations, personal family obligations, and even...money, most "hobbyists" are looking for companionship of a simpler nature.  Jeez, did I just prove Oz's point in a back-handed way?!?  :-)

However...reality has a nasty way of rising up a biting you in the ass.  If one is paying $250-350 (or $400-700, as some feel their time is worth) for ONE HOUR, then I'm sorry, but the "get to know you" small talk is kinda going to take the back seat.  It's sad, in a way, because I certainly would like to be able to take my time, be adventurous, and snuggle and chat afterwards, but let's get real!  When I consider that $400-700 for an hour of pleasure is nearly half of my present weekly take-home, then you'd better believe it's going to be all business ;-)  !!

But, I'm straying from my original point.  No, I do not want to sit there stone-faced (and scare someone).  Yes, I do want a provider to be friendly and engaging.  It's NOT, after, 'wham-bam-thank-you, ma'am'!  All I was trying to put out there was my feeling that perhaps a provider should be a little more discerning about the information she lets out about herself, and that her client may be kind of uncomfortable hearing about your most recent prison stay, for example, LOL!!

You sound like a pretty straight-up kind of person, Nicole.  I'll have to keep that in mind the next time my job sends me to DC...

Aside to Oz:  I ACT in the live theatre that you attend.  I PERFORM the music that you listen to.  I WRITE the stories and articles that you read.  I CREATE the artwork that you admire.  And, I'd rather be here than in your shoes any day.  It seems like all you do is Take.  What are you Giving?

ReplyQuoteReport
Ozymandias5261 reads

jcozz...

I PRODUCE music (I am currently developing a jazz festival for spring '02.)

I PUBLISH the stories and articles many people listen to (seven magazines and a regional poetry press.) I am in the process of developing a literary magazine devoted to alternative literature that would otherwise perish due to the recent massive consolidation of literary publishers and the loss of innumerable small presses (working title "Living Voice": look for it around Q1 2003.)

I don't just admire art, I SUPPORT it both with a private collection and with two art galleries (Atlanta and NY) that I am a financial partner in, and I chair a non-profit (which I started) devoted to the development and promotion of "outsider" art in the rural South.

I GIVE artists, musicians, and writers the OPPORTUNITY to devote their life to creation. I could make a lot more money if I just became a real estate developer, clear-cutting forest to churn out endless subdivisions... but I choose instead to work in a more rewarding arena.

As much as the artist/musician/writer will always resent the gallery/producer/publisher (and the reverse is usually exasperation) the two camps need each other. There is an inescapable interplay there.

My whole life has been one of continuous striving to master arts, sciences, letters: a driven childhood of endless tutors, exposure to artists and writers (my father is a painter, and quite the Bohemian), summers exploring galleries and art colonies and communes in Europe, India, and the US; college at 16 (not permitted to take summers off: always went to a summer program), spring break spent studying or doing research; straight to grad school at 19, Economics PhD at 23 followed by an NSF postdoc at Tokai and a World Bank fellowship... straight into self employment and my current busy schedule 7 years later, employing more than 100 people, many of whom are artists, writers, etc. I have met VERY FEW people who can DARE to criticize me in any way, especially in the case of suggesting that I am somehow a cultural parasite or an undisciplined dilettente. As for being a silver-spoon playboy (as some would theorize): I have worked and studied virtually without rest since I was taught to read at TWO years of age, I have never been on a "vacation", never been to a resort or on a cruise, because I can ill-afford the wasting of time; I have never been intoxicated, or used a mind-altering drug, or in general engaged in behaviors that endanger my ability to think and be in control; I strive nonstop to improve my awareness of the world, through disciplined study augmented by diet and Yoga to clear the mind and senses (not to mention allowing me to need only four hours of sleep daily). I have given my "all" to the survival of the values I hold worthy. I am not "extremely lucky" to have reached some sort of affluent station: I have strategized and manuevered every step of the way... I can probably tell you within 20% accuracy where I will be in ten years, because I PLAN; when others were partying, or "hanging out" at the mall, or in general wasting their lives, I was working, reading, studying, planning. If loss of humility along the way was the price, well, I have paid it gladly.

What have I given? You decide.

O.

ReplyQuoteReport
jcozz4547 reads

Ahh, sir, where to begin, where to begin...?  It seems I've inadvertantly pushed quite a few buttons with you!  I've spent the last few hours pondering over what tone I wanted my reply to take, or if I should even bother to rise and take the bait at all.  Indignation?  Sarcasm?  Humor?  Pity?  After all, you're providing me with SO much ammunition!  But then again, you are obviously a man of staunchly-held opinions and values, and I doubt that anything I could say in this forum would make much of a difference with you.  Was your reply misguided yet heartfelt (probably, judging from your previous posts), or was this post continuing your fascination with "Swiftian irony"?  It boggles the mind to think that anyone could take themselves so seriously; I mean, jeez, Oz, take a minute and listen to yourself!  

While you have (allegedly) accomplished more in your life than any other six men combined, there's something utterly boorish about trumpeting your achievements as proof that you are some kind of standard-bearer of culture, a shining, erudite pillar of society.  If anything, I'd like to put forth that it's people like you that give education and higher learning a bad reputation.  Your little screed was more appropriate to a bad, grade-B science-fiction movie villian; why didn't you throw in your plan for World Domination while you were at it?  All that's missing is for the hero (or beautiful girl) in this flick to tell you that "...for all your learning, all your achievements, somewhere along the line you never learned what it is to be ...human!" (cue to swelling, melodramatic music).  At least this is how I'D write a cheesy, tongue-in-cheek movie!

"I have never been on a "vacation", never been to a resort or on a cruise, because I can ill-afford the wasting of time; I have never been intoxicated, or used a mind-altering drug, or in general engaged in behaviors that endanger my ability to think and be in control..."

"...not permitted to take summers off..."

"...when others were partying, or "hanging out" at the mall, or in general wasting their lives, I was working, reading, studying, planning..."

You're really scaring me.

From your statements, sir, I wonder if it might not be more benificial to you to redirect your funds from the seeking out high-priced courtesans (with whom I'm sure you've ultimately been disappointed), and instead retain the services of a good psychiatrist.  You seriously need to remove the broomstick from up your ass, and have your laundry stop putting so much starch in your shorts.  While you're at it, direct your tailor to allow for a little looser fit in the seat of your pants, the next time you have one of your "measured suits" made; your undies are twisting awfully tight.  And last, try like Hell to rejoin the rest of humanity.  Even Shelley, the creator of your namesake (and no, I didn't need to do a Google search to know this--you're not the only one who reads and appreciates poetry) knew how to let loose and have a good time once in a while!

Perhaps it's not my place to criticize, because I've had to make do in life with my measly BA from good ol' State U, but I swear to Christ, your attitude makes the best argument  against accelerated learning programs I've ever read.  College at 16?  You should've been out copping your first feel with the rest of us.  PhD and post-Doc at 23?  Perhaps sharing a few six-packs with the undergrads would've opened your eyes a little and done you a world of good.  

To conclude, Mr. O, let me say that I don't envy your accomplishments;  I applaude your appreciation of the finer things in life; and I too, lament the coarsening of society and loss of certain standards.  However, if this is the kind of attitude and spiel you bring along on a typical dinner-date, it's no wonder that we've "met" in the rather unlikely forum of the TER discussion boards.  How any woman could put up with your snobbishness and self-aggrandizing personality for more than one evening is beyond me.

And what's with this "I've met very few people who can DARE to criticize me"?  HELLO?!?  Aren't we being just a wee bit sociopathic here, fellow?  

You can thump your chest and bleat on all you like, but if this is what success and life means to you, I wouldn't trade places with you for (insert cliche) all the money in the world.

jcozz


ReplyQuoteReport
SexyCurvesDC4891 reads

Me a headache, with all that bragging.
Someone pass the advil???
;)
Nicole

ReplyQuoteReport
SexyCurvesDC5235 reads

Jcozz, one thing you might try is making sure the lady in question knows you are not interested in a GFE experience... that whole silly GFE thing has changed the entire industry methinks... but most ladies are going to think you *want* that "get to know you time" unless you say (or do.. just grab me and kiss me, wouldya??) otherwise. And part of that is perpetuated by the whole debate over what a GFE is, over the whole connotation of it (people feel like "not a GFE" means something bad!), etc.

You oughta try my mysterious stranger fantasy... where you simply walk into the room and I am there blindfolded and you can ravage and ravish me allllll you want... WOO HOO! :)  I ain't your girlfriend, I'm not going to make you buy me advil when I'm PMSing, I'm not going to borrow your credit cards to go shopping... I'm just giving you the good stuff! ;)

*smooch*
Nicole

ReplyQuoteReport
G25462 reads

isn't going to get much sympathy around here.

I always find it ironic that the guys who seem to have the lowest opinion of providers are the ones that have never taken the time to get to know any of them on a personal level (I'm referring to their "miserable lives," which you state you have no intersest in exploring).  I have gotten to know some of them very well, and I can assure you their lives are just like everybody else's, with the same good and bad aspects that we all experience.  One of them I knew even had a PH.D and was published, but you wouldn't ever know it unless you took the time to get to know her.

I think your broad brush generalizations and the manner in which you refer to providers reflects your reluctance to view them as real people, which allows you to marginalize them.  It's the best way to keep the stereotypes alive, but it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation in my experience.  Sure, it is possible to find the "Jerry Springer" scenario descibed in the original post, but that is the rare execption in my experience, and the poster should have heeded the many warning signs.

It isn't the internet that is to blame for the decline in quality you percieve.  Rather, it is the all too familiar attitude expressed by you and countless others towards the women in this activity.  You try to elevate them to courtesan status on the one hand, while you diminish them on the other. If this activity is to draw high quality ladies capable of  performing the services of courtesans of the past, their clients must also be  gentlemen worthy of such special treatment.   You may think you fall into that category, but the attitudes toward providers that form the subtext of your post are both as old and common as dirt.

ReplyQuoteReport
mr thickin5191 reads

You know my Daddy told me about people out there like you and til now I didn't believe it..You remind me of Fraisers brother on T.V., someone who needs a good broomectomy (broom shoved ones ass)..

Who the hell do you think you are?? You know if you raised in lesser circumstances you would not think like that..You would understand that these ladies have feelings just like anyone else, and they are human..The 10% your talking about have personal problems too, and they to are human..

If you don't like the girls with families then don't see them, don't talk them down just because they are trying to put food on their table..You should get to know some of these girls..

My .05 cents

ReplyQuoteReport
sweetsable5442 reads

This is the oldest profession there is. The "Geisha" the "Courtesan", this business used to be a respected and accepted part of society in many countries. The word "geisha" in fact derives from the Japanese word for art. In what does the geisha’s art consist of? I submit to you that it is the art of lovemaking. A courtesan was an "educated prostitute". Both were exclusive companions who invested many years in learning this "art" and taking this profession seriously.

There was a time when a man could only find an elite escort or courtesan through a "Sidney Biddle Barrows" (The Mayflower Madam) or Heidi Fleiss. Not every provider is like the ladies the first poster described.

IMHO I think the three (3) things contributed to the sorry state of our profession are...

1. The Internet became the great equalizer

There was a time when a Madam or Agency had "connections" in the exclusive circles of the rich and famous. One Madam would cut another's throat if she thought she could get her hand on the infamous "LITTLE BLACK BOOK".

Only Madams and Agencies could afford to place Ads in the Yellow Pages and exclusive magazines like The New Yorker. The average girl could not afford to do this; she HAD to work for a Madam or Agency.

A few years ago "homemade" websites and pictures would have been laughed off the Internet, now they are the norm.

2. This industry used to actually have "standards"

The Mayflower Madam had very STRICT rules about her girls (they could only see 1 or 2 clients per day, they had to dress as if they were going to lunch at 21 in New York and carry briefcases to their appointments, there were certain acts they COULD NOT perform for any amount of money [Anal, 1 girl - 2 guys) and they had to be highly educated model types. They cost a lot of money and were worth every penny.

Now any female can throw a website up and place an Ad and be in business within 24 hours.

3. IMHO "Men" f**ked up our industry with "AGENCIES". They took any girl willing to make some money and sent her on an appointment...no instructions, no training...just instructions NOT TO COME BACK WITHOUT THE MONEY!

As man at the helm thinks this business is about "Sex"...A woman at the helm KNOWS this business is about more than sex. A woman's touch (e.g.: The Mayflower Madam and Heidi Fleiss [and a great little outfit in D.C. Called "A Corporate Affair long since closed] really knew how to maintain the fantasy. IMHO when you have a man running a Brothel or Agency you are sure to get a "Wham Bam Thank You Man" experience.

So why do so many women provide such lousy service? Because there is no incentive not to. Sure you can give them a bad review or something...but clients keep going to them...they keep making money...why do better when they don’t have to?

So many of us ladies talk about how HARD we try to give our clients a GFE (Warm, Sensual, Personalized Companionship) with Satin Sheets, Candles, Music, No Clock Watching, No Phone Calls During The Appointment,Etc. We try to maintain the fantasy...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
What is the answer?

IMHO there "Should" be standards in our industry.

As a provider, in order to be on the level of a "true" Geisha or Courtesan you would have to live and breathe this profession 24/7. Geisha's and Courtesan's were not "single mothers"; they didn’t have "Real Lives" full of grumpy boyfriends and relatives. Geisha's were often SOLD to the Madam and Courtesans were often disowned by their families and shunned by polite society...what else did these women have to do all day but live and breathe their profession 24/7/365? Don’t get it twisted...in our modern society "Real Life" does interrupt our industry...it shouldn’t but it does.

But the other side of the coin is the "Money". IMHO becoming a TRUE Geisha or Courtesan would knock the average hobbyist "WAY" out of the Market. "Some" clients have to "sneak" the $300+ fee past their wives...I imagine it's hard to explain why $300+ is missing from your check. We talk about how there is a need for truly "exclusive, elegant, elite" providers...but the TOP girls have trouble getting the $400 to $700 they deserve NOW! The TOP girls that are out there NOW don’t get the respect they deserve for the standards they set and maintain in our industry...Are they really going to get $1,000 or more if they did become "exclusive, elegant, elite"? I don’t think so.

"The Little Black Book" full of celebrities and Jet Setter's is a thing of the past (or at least not common enough for the average provider to have access to).

There is a market on every level of our profession... (streetwalker, call girl, companion/escort, agency, brothel, etc.) and I think, "Everybody is where they are supposed to be". I wont mention any names but I have watched a few of the Top Girls in the industry "evolve" from homemade websites and photos to extremely upscale websites and photos. This business is like any other and it takes money to make money.  

As providers we need to do better to set some STANDARDS for our industry. What would the standards be?  I dont know...(rasberry)...Do I have to think of "everything"? :0)~ "wink"

my .02 cents

ReplyQuoteReport
jcozz5207 reads

Well, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to post a reply to my original question, "Too Much Reality?".  I'm sorry, though, that my comments were kind of deflected and forgotten about in the large poopstorm that followed Mr. O's controversial reply.

Looking back, I somewhat agree with the sentiment that "I should've heeded the warning signs".  I can only blame my newness and inexperience in the "hobby"; the two provider incidents I related were in fact my first two experiences.  However, I must add that I contacted both providers based on extensive good reviews on TER...

So, does the intrustion of those little "slices of real life" really diminish the whole experience?  I dunno; as you all say in your reviews, YMMV.  All I was trying to point out is that perhaps while a provider may think that it's no big deal, or that she's just being friendly, or whatever, she should understand enough about the human condition to realize that many of us are making that appointment with her to have for that hour a brief respite from our own lives and problems.  I very much want that "fantasy" of a provider being there "just for me", to be wild and unihibited, to be for that hour a Sex Machine.  I respect very much the fact that all of us have personal lives, but just as I would never dare to tell a client of mine all about my personal troubles, I don't expect to hear a provider's.

I loved Sweet Sable's long post and insightful comments, and I truly wish that I could afford to pay for the type of high-class courtesan that she describes.  Maybe when I win the lottery, etc!  :-)  Those women are for an entirely different class of man from us "regular joes".  As far as her feeling that providers aren't getting the money they deserve ($400-700 per hour), I say, more power to you, if you can get that.  If that day ever comes, though, you can count me out; in the many hours of canvassing the provider reviews in TER not only for my own area, but others, I have found no correlation between higher prices and "better service".  If anything, and I'm not saying this to start another "poopstorm", but there seem to be more lackluster and unsatisfactory reviews of higher-priced providers.

ReplyQuoteReport
Ozymandias5123 reads

This is very telling:

"there seem to be more lackluster and unsatisfactory reviews of higher-priced providers"

I think this is because there is a mis-communication between what the hobbyist wants and what the higher-level provider intends to give: the hobbyist wants to cut the chitchat, launch right into the standard catalog (dfk, then bbbj/cbj, fs while flipping provider into two or three of the usual positions, with "multiple pops" ensuring high praise), then leave... all for $200-$300... think of how pointless it must seem to these customers when the high-priced provider "wastes time" by setting up the encounter with coversation or offering wine (he prefers a "Bud", after all): I think the clients who are disappointed with the high priced girls thought their greater expenditures would buy them twice the "pops", allow them to do more porn-type activities (facials, etc.) and to their surprise they have an encounter that is less "nasty" than usual. It is the same reaction you see in lower-class men who go to a "fancy" restaurant, and complain about the small portions (whose exquisite flavor their buffalo-wing-dulled tongues can never appreciate) and high prices... they can't wait to get back to the all-you-can-eat Bob's Grease Shack. In any case, the client is disappointed and complains in his review... in fact it is common to see the lament that the provider was "stuck up": ie. portions were too small...

But this is the world now. There are dinosaurs like myself (who still attend live theater, have suits made to measure, and prefer an intelligent courtesan to a "full service escort" (sounds like a kind of mechanic)) but I expect we will grow silent and disappear. The "hobby" is already entering into an even lesser incarnation in my city: a few clever entrepreneurs are having "private parties" where they get 10-12 escorts and invite 30+ men at $150 per ticket (actually they don't invite them, that would be too exclusive... anyone with the dough can go): dishes of condoms are strategically located and for the duration of the evening and your $150 buys you access to every hole you can reach... the girls can make $500+ (a little sore, I expect) and what a hobbyist's dream: 10+ girls for $150! Just $15 each! This is the future of the "hobby" and I am sure most of the readers of this post are saying "wow, I can't wait until that comes to my city!" but to me it is another win for baseline consumerism... cheap beer, all-you-can-eat rib joints, off-the-rack suits, $150 gangbangs.

What a future.

O.

-- Modified on 3/4/2002 9:47:37 AM

ReplyQuoteReport
SexyCurvesDC5221 reads

I don't think the term "full service escort" was coined by us ladies... then again I wasn't around when it was invented, so who knows?

I think the gents complaining about the higher priced ladies are more expecting something completely mindblowing... but MOST of the gents in this hobby expect a GFE to include "getting to know you" time, hence all the battles over the silly GFE term to begin with. As for completely mindblowing, I am here to provide pleasure in every sense of the word, and I do my best with every *gentleman* that I choose to see.

As for dinosaurs like yourself... maybe if you hadn't been such a snob about it, weren't trying to rub everyone's nose in the fact that you consider yourself better than everyone else, I might actually AGREE with you on some points. Looters, everywhere, of course, and in everything.  But you can still find what you seek if you have the eyes to see... I follow my clients leads... if he walks in expecting a blonde bimbo, that's probably what he will see. If he walks in seeing more and expecting more, he will see that.  Sometimes expectations can turn around and bite you that way.  

As for me, a courtesan? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify in your eyes... because I don't charge enough? I suppose!  But I fit in just fine at elegant hotels, just as well as at a local middle class place, and am quite happy enjoying myself in an evening gown at political parties, or hanging out with friends. I love good wine and good food and enjoy both in lovely, exclusive resteraunts in DC as frequently as I can. I don't think that being multifaceted and able to fit in anywhere I go is a detriment... rather, it's one of the positive sides of knowing me. But you don't, and you probably won't meet many ladies if you approach them with the idea that we are all "trailer trash."

I refuse to accept your limitations of what I can do or be,  based on what your idea of what I "should" be... because the fact is that I am all those things and more.

Nicole

ReplyQuoteReport
STUMPY7276 reads

Most of what Ozymandias says is so far out to lunch that it is not worth refuting.  As to jcozz's original point I am sure we have all had similar experiences on occassion.  After listening to someone rattle on for half an hour about a variety of depressing experiences we are expected to instantly grow wood and jump in the sack.  Not the most pleasant thought. I disagree with a lot of what sweetsable has to say.  I think the internet has actually imnproved the profession.  First of all comparing Sidney Barrow Biddles with Heidi Fleiss is like comparing apples and oranges.  Biddle ran a class  operation for a number of years in a relatively discreet manner.  Heidi Fleiss ran a flamboyant operation in a rather indiscreet manner.  That was one of the reasons she attracted the attention of LE.  This partially may have been caused by her substance abuse problems.  She did try to employ many pretty model, actresses,etc. to work for her.  Some of these people had their own drug problems.  However when you deal with Charlie Sheen and other types this was probably not a problem.  During that time frame it was fashionable to have a bowl of coke on the living room coffee table during a Hollywood party.  A courtesan is defined as a prostitute or paramour especially one associating with noblemen or men of wealth.  The original term came about because they were considered court prostitutes (Court of the King).  They were considered as beneath the nobility and their wives.  They considered themselves above the peasants because they had an easier lifestyle.  Usually at least part of the next generation of courteseans were daughters of the current generation of courteseans.  There was little chance of them moving into the nobility.  There education was more of a finishing school type of education than the type most woman seek today.  In other words they were taught how to have good manners. I beleive the high class madam still exists in some cases.  I think the internet and TER at least in the Los Angeles area have helped to raise prices, quantity and quality.  Prior to the internet business was done through massage, parlors, agencies and classified ads usually without pictures.  The market tended to be inefficient with hobbiest's only willing to pay so much for a totally unknown quantity.  Everything was found out by trial and error.  Also many just did not get involved at all.  The internet attracted a more hobbiests and in some cases more upscale hobbiests.  The increased demand and a willingness to pay higher prices have attracted more educated woman into the profession.  Of course money also attracts ripoffs etc.  My last three favorites all had college degrees and that was before the internet had taken off.  Unfortunately now all three are retired.  I think there are plenty of educated providers on the internet.  I do not think that the average provider ever had access to the celebrities and Jet Setter's.  The average hobbiest never had access to those providers serving the celebrities.  I think that was largely a word of mouth operation.  Sweetsable I am not trying to attack you.  From all of your posts I think you are probably a wonderful provider.  I just have a different opinion on the current state of the profession.

ReplyQuoteReport
Post Reply Back To Forum
Register Now!