Greywolf is right in that this subject had been beaten to death innumerable times. What is model material or is beautiful is going to vary from person to person. Instead of concentrating on an area where there is no possibility of agreement maybe we should look at ways that we can help each other.
For example if the pictures on the website were taken when the lady was 5'2" and 110 lbs and the lady you met was 5'2" and 165 lbs then it may help others if you mention that in your written review. You may like her better at 165 lbs and rate her looks as a nine but obviously the pictures do not reflect her current appearance. If you show up at the appointment and do not like the extra 55 lbs then you should just say no thanks. That much of a discrepancy IMHO is false advertising. The same thing would apply if the pictures are 20 years old and she looks like granny instead of that cute young lady in the picture. You may like granny better than the cute young lady but the fact that she looks a lot older should be mentioned in your review to help other hobbyists. When I talk about weight I am not talking about nitpicking the lady over the 5 or 10 lbs she fluctuates during the month. I know that if I put my high school year book pictures on the net it would be a case of false advertising.
Also when booking the appointment you can ask the lady how recent those photos are and other related questions. If she lies to you and you do not like what you see then just say no thanks.
I know a lot of ladies may not like what I am saying. Also I am sure we will get some guys who think 10 lbs is 65 lbs. But at least we will be making comments by comparison with the same standard which is the photo the lady posted on her website.
If the lady gets enough comments in reviews and or no thank you's because her photos do not accurately reflect her current status she will have an incentive to get more accurate photos.
I also know that we have a check off box on the profile that indicates whether the lady looked like her picture. However I think a comment in the review body can be more descriptive.
-- Modified on 9/20/2002 6:40:58 PM
The last five providers that I have seen have had multiple reviews posted by TER members that have also posted numerous reviews. Each of them had “looks ratings” of 7, 8, or 9. In the text of the reviews references were also made to how “hot” they looked in some way or another. Well notwithstanding the level of information that was available for each of these ladies and the “model material” rating that they received from my fellow hobbyists, they were all at least 30 to 40 pounds over weight!!!
Yes I looked carefully at the photography that was available on their websites and either they were older pictures or carefully posed shots with attire that concealed their obesity. Yes I said the “O” word. These ladies when observed naked are obese!
So I’m at a loss. Either the general male population has developed a taste for large ladies with huge butts and sagging bellies, or our fellow reviewers are too afraid to truthfully describe their dates to other hobbyists for fear that the lady will know who disclosed their secret.
On one occasion I was so disappointed with the difference between the review rating/description and web photo that I wrote a polite but very accurate review in which I clearly described a particular providers huge physical characteristics. Shortly thereafter that provider’s reviews were no longer available and she re-surfaced with a different but just as concealing picture and several “model material” reviews followed.
I am not intending to hurt any ladies feelings. I did enjoy the time I spent with each of them. I just would like to know before we get to that intimate moment whether she can fit into a seat on an airplane or not.
Sorry if I have hurt anyone’s feelings. Just trying to encourage truthful and accurate reviews. I’ll accept any flames.
Most guys give higher ratings (especially in looks) if they intend to see the lady again. It makes no sense to give a woman a 5 or 6 looks rating and then accept her wrath when you seek to rebook. A BBW can get a 7 rating in my book, but when they start getting 8's & 9's, the ratings become a joke IMHO.
I responded and realized it is a losing battle. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
-- Modified on 9/19/2002 4:25:23 PM
on what type of Models you like. There is Emme who is a world renowned Plus Size model or there is Kate Moss, who has been a super model for years and built like a 13 year old boy.
It seems as though we are comming back to truthful advertising. If the ladies are truly 30-40lbs what they claim on their site then this is a serious issue. I wouldn't call that obese either. But if you truly want a general perspective on what "Model Material" is then you will get many different opinions.
As far as the huge butts and sagging bellies (both of which I have) everyones taste is different. I get pretty good reviews, but that is mostly based on my service, I assume, and not the way I look. Because a guy defines an "obese" lady, as you put it, in a high catagory does not mean he is wrong, it just means his taste varies from yours. Maybe TER needs to define what "Model Material" is when it comes to rankings. Does it mean "She has the body or the face to grace a magazine cover such as Vogue, ect"? Lauren Hutton graced well over 100 magazine covers in her time, and honestly that woman could eat corn thru a picket fence with those teeth. Yet she was held to a standard of beauty that many people hold in high esteem to this day. And as far as bodies go..JLo is gorgeous but she has a huge ass. So can you accurately define that ranking? I don't really think so.
I honestly think as far as deleting the reviews that are uncomplimentary does a lady more harm than good. This is NOT to say, a review that claims service that is not provided or being called a rip-off when you are not shouldn't be removed. But it is good to see that with all of the glowing reviews there are a few that say you are so-so or mediocre. It proves you are after all, human. You cannot please everyone. And with everyone being so different, it is hard to click on the same level everytime. I know Im going to get an ass beating for that one, but I needed to say it.
Oh and one last thing..... If you don't mean to hurt the ladies feelings you might want to refrain from posting comments like ****I just would like to know before we get to that intimate moment whether she can fit into a seat on an airplane or not.****
But of course, as always this is just one Broads .02
~Lass
-- Modified on 9/19/2002 10:51:00 AM
...in 30+ years of hobbying, I have been with women ranging from anorexic to BBW. The physical size of a provider has absolutely nothing at all to do with her performance. And I really try to separate the 2 in my reviews. Beauty and the designation "Model Material" is purely subjective and in the eyes of the beholder.
What pisses me off, as a hobbyist, and I'm sure it does the same to many providers, is to read a review that says something like,
"....she gave me a BBBJTC that was like from Heaven, I DATY's and she came 3 times; then for cup 2 she rode me 'till I couldn't take it any more and came buckets all the while shaking and shivering from one of the best O's I've ever had. But I'm rating her a 5 in performance because she's about 25 pounds overweight and looks 5 years older than her photos...".
Can we ever separate looks from performance?
They may have been trying to be nice. Then again, maybe that's how they felt. If you looked at some of their other reviews, you might be able to get a sense of which it is. Everyone's standards are different, one man's 9 could just as well be another man's 6.
When I'm contemplating whether or not someone is "Model Material," I don't ask myself if she's "Playboy Centerfold Material" although some folks seem to think that's what it should be. If I saw someone who was Playboy centerfold material, she'd most likely be put in the "Once in a Lifetime" category. If I think a woman has a beautiful face AND a nice, athletic body, then I'll rate her "Model Material."
One other thing, 30-40 pounds overweight is far from obese. A friend of mine weighed about 110 when I met her 7 years ago, now she's about 145. She's starting to get pudgy, but no one in their right mind would look at her and say she's obese.
obese by clinical definitoin means that a person is 100lbs heavier than their ideal BMI...that is body mass index.It would be damn near impossible to hide 100lbs with lingerie and good photography. oh and If anyone wants to read my take on this then check out my respons on the san diego board as this thread is posted there as well.
If you are going to use terms such as bmi, you need to use them in the right context. A person's bmi is not solely based on just their weight. BMI is a formula that takes into account both height and weight. An ideal bmi is somewhere between 19.0 and 24.0. Beyond 24.0 you could say the person is getting a tad big in the middle, and beyond a bmi of 30.0 the person is .... So, if a person is 5'6'' and 130 lbs. that person has a bmi around 21. If that same 5'6'' person weighed 180lbs.(only 50 lbs more, not 100) then the bmi would exceed 29. At a bmi of 29 that person would be well, well beyond having just some baby fat.
I am not making any value judgements of model material versus big is beautiful. Just trying to keep you from looking foolish in the future when you use terms in an inaccurate fashion.
actually sir I think that you are not taking this in context either...I am aware of the factors that go into BMI I am also aware that we were NOT talking about body fat percentage on a person's frame but their size. After all there are plenty of skinny girls who are no their ideal BMI either. If you want to get into the lean discussion i think you should start another thread. The clinical definition of an obese person is a person who is 100 lbs heavier than their ideal body weight we are not talking about muscle weight but fat weight and I think that was a given in this discussion. ideal weight is often determined by figuring out what their BMI should be (given that fat weighs less than muscle etc.) obesity is determined if a person is already not their ideal BMI and 100lbs heavier than the weight that was determined they should be given all of the factors that go into the formula. I do not think that what I said or Nicole said was so totally incorrect that you need to shout and say that you are trying to save us from embarassment in the future...how rude.
"Until recently, a person was thought to be obese if he or she weighed at least 20% more than his or her ideal body weight. However, tables that give a person's ideal body weight based on his or her height (ideal body weight tables) are no longer commonly used by doctors. Ideal body weight tables have been replaced by the body mass index (BMI). . . .Many people in the United States have too much fat on their bodies. However, they may not have enough extra fat to be obese."
More at http://my.webmd.com/encyclopedia/article/2731.1444
Body Mass Index (BMI) Calculator:
http://www.fitnessonline.com/calculators/BMIV2.asp
Ideal Weight Calculator:
http://www.fitnessonline.com/calculators/WeightV2.asp
-- Modified on 9/19/2002 7:14:02 PM
And then I have found the opposite happens and men are picky! I check reviews of other providers from time to time to see what the customer likes and for ideas from other providers to keep things from getting stale and I have noted a few times that the men gave them 6 and 7's and when I checked out the site I thought they looked much better than that~
How would you like to see your appearance rated on a scale of 1-10? Has it ever occured to you that if a girl was "model material" she might choose to become a model rather than a provider? How do you rate yourself on a scale of 1-10? Be truthful... Or instead why don't you send me a pic and I'll rate you?
I'm about a 5-6 but aren't we men lucky? Women are not the visual creatures that we scum-bucket men are. Most women place a higher value on other characteristics.
I wish I wasn't one of those shallow SOB's but I am! I have definitely met some providers that are model material in most men's eyes. Just about any beautiful women could be a provider but you've got to be photogenic and very lucky to be a model.
If I send you my picture can I blur out the face? LOL!
While men tend to judge women on their physical beauty Women judge men on their checkbook. This can be traced back to the genetic needs for the survival of the species. Males search for females that are healthy and can bear healthy offspring. If we look at beauty through history it has been very close to the apperance of the most fertile females. Females on the other hand have had the need for a male that will be able to help her raise an infant to the age the it will be able to take care of itself. To do this a male had to have the ability to put food on the table. In todays world it is cash that makes that possible. So it is that women gravitate to the guy with the nice car and the big house.
By the way when I contact a provider I almost always send a photo of myself as well as an accurate description of myself.
etienne
When you hear the word model can you honestly tell me the first thought that pops into your head is the Michelin Man? No, it's those beutifull (physically) women you see walking down runways and posing in magazines. They are after all paid for there looks for a reson. So when I see a rating on LOOKS that says model material, I'm not thinking about her wonderfull mind. No one said Heidi Klum was a great conversationalist.
First, I agree with you, I think reviews are greatly overstated on looks as a rule. I thnk that guys get great service, and then just assign the same score for looks as a reflex. I tend to give 6 to 8's myself, but honstly, I'd say that those score are inflated by .5 to 1, even by me. I've only met one escort who I honestly thought was better looking than my GF, who I'd say is slightly better than average loooking, but couldn't make a living based on her appearance.
Having said that, I would say that if you think 30 to 40 lbs over weight is "obese", you aren't living in the real world. I am not saying you shouldn't get what you want...I mean, you are paying for it. And I am not sure what you have in mind for a baseline...30 to 40 lbs over, say, 150lbs, makes for a big girl. Not OBESE in my opinion, or in the opinion of medical science, but yes, a big girl (depending on how tall, a big FUN sexy girl, perhaps...I like 'um soft and cuddly myself). On the other hand, 30 to 40 lbs over 110 on a 5'6" woman makes her still smaller than the average North American female. It also makes her pretty damn near perfect in my mind, but that is another conversation....
Lastly, "model material" as Lass points out, has many definition. I think "Elle" or whatever her name is pretty, but a tad large for me. Maybe more than a tad. But I have seen some "plus size" model in magazines and whathave you who I thought were "ohmigawd" fione. Full breast, full hips, full butts..the sort of women who REALLY stop traffic...like the babe I saw crossing the street today...and watched as easily 4 different guys followed her with their eyes.
On the other hand, I would say about 50% of the runway models I see (not bikini models, who I actually think tend to be bigger and more athletic) are unattractive. They would have to pay ME for sex. Most are too skinny, and some are ugly.
So...I guess I'm saying I agree with you, reviews are inflated, but really, not many women in this world ARE truly world class beautiful. I mean, let be real here...if a woman truly had the sort of looks that could be turned into a six figure income just standing in front of a camera, wouldn't she be doing that versus escorting?
In the United States we are now seeing a growing health problem. Over 1/3 of the population is fat, YES overweight. A good percentage of the overweight people are obese. All you have to do is go to Disney World and take a peek at the people. I must admit it does not look that much better if you go to Haulover Beach, the nude beach in Florida.
When one travels overseas one is reminded how good looking a population can be when they are not as fat as us Americans. For kicks take a trip to RIO it will blow your mind. The guys and girls are gorgeous.
While you are there do enjoy the services the girls there provide.
etienne
"Obesity" is a technical term, with a technical definition, so no, it isn't in the eye of the beholder, but that isn't what I said, nor is it what we are really debating (I don't think).
Obesity also isn't defined as 40 to 50 lbs overweight (again, depending on what baseline you use for "ideal weight"), but that has been established in several threads as well.
My point was that everyone has there own idea of what is attractive. Right now the celebraty object of my fantasies is Kelitta Smith from "The Bernie Mac" Show. The woman is so damn fine....you wouldn't understand. Words fail me. Anyway, the point is, there is no way she could ever be a runway model. My guess is that she's about 5'6"...maybe 130 - 135 lbs. The girl has an ass....a REAL ass. She has real curves. Full lips...perfect skin...gorgoeous almond eyes...a sassy attitude...
Umm...sorry....I'm back. Anyway, back to my point...so the fact that I want to have Kelitta Smith's baby (and many other men do as well) proves that there is more than one idea of beauty, depending on the beholder. Which was my point.
BTW...yes, the women of Brazil are beautiful. And yes, we North Americans as a rule are over weight. But, that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't look like a Brazilian beach model is obese, or unatractive at all.
Accept it, gang. There is no valid answer to this question. The only way to truly share numerical scores is with someone that has the exact same taste as you. You can glean tons of “looks” information on TER by using reviews that coincide with your perception of a provider that you have seen.
Example: IMHO, NOSC is model material. If you think that only thin brunettes are model material, don’t go see NOSC and don’t use my ratings to pick a provider.
Simple, huh?
The "O" word, "Obesity," is alive, well, and overflowing in the escort world. Obesity is an epidemic in the US, a serious health problem.
I cannot even read the postings in this thread because of their predictability.
However, if many men like obese women, that is their absolute right. To describe an obese woman as model material however is an Orwellian use of the English language, usually doublespeak.
I didn't even bother to read any of the replies to this post, even though I recognize the names & respect many of those who did.
The reason is that this is simply a re-hash of a subject that's been beaten to death inumerable times in the past. Look guy...there simply ain't no such thing as universal agreement on any subject on which we all have our own likes & dislikes--whether it's what constitutes qualification as "model looks" or what kind of movies, music, etc you like best...or how do you prefer your steak, or do you even eat red meat or find it disgusting.
For all I know, you & I might have somewhat similar tastes, but that's not cogent at all to my point. Neither of us are right, wrong, or inbetween...it's only our own opinion, to which we are both entitled. But why make any post that even hints in the slightest that you question the opinion of others who don't happen to share your preferences? Sometimes I just don't understand.
-- Modified on 9/19/2002 6:47:18 PM
Greywolf is right in that this subject had been beaten to death innumerable times. What is model material or is beautiful is going to vary from person to person. Instead of concentrating on an area where there is no possibility of agreement maybe we should look at ways that we can help each other.
For example if the pictures on the website were taken when the lady was 5'2" and 110 lbs and the lady you met was 5'2" and 165 lbs then it may help others if you mention that in your written review. You may like her better at 165 lbs and rate her looks as a nine but obviously the pictures do not reflect her current appearance. If you show up at the appointment and do not like the extra 55 lbs then you should just say no thanks. That much of a discrepancy IMHO is false advertising. The same thing would apply if the pictures are 20 years old and she looks like granny instead of that cute young lady in the picture. You may like granny better than the cute young lady but the fact that she looks a lot older should be mentioned in your review to help other hobbyists. When I talk about weight I am not talking about nitpicking the lady over the 5 or 10 lbs she fluctuates during the month. I know that if I put my high school year book pictures on the net it would be a case of false advertising.
Also when booking the appointment you can ask the lady how recent those photos are and other related questions. If she lies to you and you do not like what you see then just say no thanks.
I know a lot of ladies may not like what I am saying. Also I am sure we will get some guys who think 10 lbs is 65 lbs. But at least we will be making comments by comparison with the same standard which is the photo the lady posted on her website.
If the lady gets enough comments in reviews and or no thank you's because her photos do not accurately reflect her current status she will have an incentive to get more accurate photos.
I also know that we have a check off box on the profile that indicates whether the lady looked like her picture. However I think a comment in the review body can be more descriptive.
-- Modified on 9/20/2002 6:40:58 PM