misty, you are a sweetie.
there are two separate problems: your sexual craving, and your capacity to lie, cheat and scheme around in order to satisfy your sexual craving.
i have to be blunt ... you mention that "she thinks" that an encounter hasn't happened yet, when you've already had encounters (you call it a "hobby," so you're deep into it). which means you hope you can lie about your previous encounters so that she will take you back. but you're still a liar, and you're still looking for a liar's way out by lying to get her back. if she takes you back on those terms, she's only proven she's a sucker, and a sucker is someone who helps a liar with his favorite pastime, deceiving other people.
don't get me wrong: i'm a liar, i'm a cheat, and i remember that every time i park in some lonely spot and troll for sex on my cell and then shred the cell bill each month so that my wife won't see it. i'm just saying if you don't really look at yourself, your only way out is to dig yourself in your lying even deeper. get into a sex counseling group, and a liar's counseling group, and come totally clean with your girlfriend.
as for the idea that you're diogenes barking up the wrong tree, that's bullshit. lurkers and random web surfers visit this site, and read these posts, and our honesty affects them. and most of the married/committed guys posting here have their deceiving stories to tell, and i think most of them realize it might turn out unhappy in the end. for the single unattached guys here, it's probably a different story.
-- Modified on 7/27/2002 1:50:32 PM
Just last night my girlfriend exposed me and my hobby, we have been together for 4 yrs. She freaked and packed up her bags and split. At this time she thinks I was planning a meeting with a provider, but it didnt happen yet. She only assumes now it's happened before. I don't know what to do, If she takes me back I plan to end this hobby, since she is more important to me. I only wish I would have figured that out sooner. Any sugestions from anyone who has been in the same situation? I truly intend to quite if she comes back, I'm just worried I may have a sexual addiction or addiction to porn that has made me go this far. Help PLEASE.
Phone records, print outs, links on your computer?
I'm amazed at the men I know who make these mistakes (intelligent and computer savvy).
As far as giving advise. I'd seek a professional that specializes in sexual addiction. There are plenty of open minded counselors that won't judge you or make you feel judged. There are even groups springing up specifically for net porn addiction.
Personally, I'd do some outstanding things to show her how you feel. Ask her what you need to do to help her trust and understand your needs and follow through with her wishes.
She'll probably give it another chance especially if she sees you feel you have a problem rather than you are a low down, dirty rat. She probably wants to find a way to forgive and trust you again, you just need to give her a valid reason. 
Good luck
misty, you are a sweetie.
there are two separate problems: your sexual craving, and your capacity to lie, cheat and scheme around in order to satisfy your sexual craving.
i have to be blunt ... you mention that "she thinks" that an encounter hasn't happened yet, when you've already had encounters (you call it a "hobby," so you're deep into it). which means you hope you can lie about your previous encounters so that she will take you back. but you're still a liar, and you're still looking for a liar's way out by lying to get her back. if she takes you back on those terms, she's only proven she's a sucker, and a sucker is someone who helps a liar with his favorite pastime, deceiving other people.
don't get me wrong: i'm a liar, i'm a cheat, and i remember that every time i park in some lonely spot and troll for sex on my cell and then shred the cell bill each month so that my wife won't see it. i'm just saying if you don't really look at yourself, your only way out is to dig yourself in your lying even deeper. get into a sex counseling group, and a liar's counseling group, and come totally clean with your girlfriend.
as for the idea that you're diogenes barking up the wrong tree, that's bullshit. lurkers and random web surfers visit this site, and read these posts, and our honesty affects them. and most of the married/committed guys posting here have their deceiving stories to tell, and i think most of them realize it might turn out unhappy in the end. for the single unattached guys here, it's probably a different story.
-- Modified on 7/27/2002 1:50:32 PM
I'm reminded of an old New Yorker cartoon, in which Diogenes the Cynic, with his lantern, has come across a group of masked thieves divvying up loot. (Diogenes had a famous schtick of going round Athens at night with a lantern, saying he was looking for an honest man--cynicism being in this case the belief that there are none such. He did it at night because real character is what you do when you expect no one to see.) One of the thieves says to the philosopher, "You're barkin' up the wrong tree, Mac."
Devilman, you too are barking up the wrong tree by bringing your declared intent, genuinely to give up the "hobby," to TER of all places. (Especially given the handle you've adopted for this place!) If you want to find a good AA sponsor to help you give up boozing, do you look in a bar? Successfully recovering alcoholics know to stay out of them. Likewise someone who is successfully struggling to put this hobby behind him is not likely to be reading and responding to this board.
I would not be understood here to endorse the view that any habit that is hard to give up is automatically an "addiction." Possibly the Supremes got it more nearly right by applying to pornography the word "prurient," which comes from the Latin for "itch"--as in, the more you scratch it, the worse it itches.
if she would be interested in joining you by becoming a provider. Then you could see her in that capacity and continue both sides of the equation.
Good luck.
Jump on a plane and head down to Rio de Janeiro.
Once you get there you'll forget all about your girlfriend. I can't tell you how many guys I met there that said they would never date another American women again after experiencing the girls in Brazil.
I myself will have to think hard about putting up with all the crap from these cold hearted women in the US. I just might keep going down to Rio 4 or 5 times a year. I know one thing I'm much more likely to tell a girl in the US to get lost, if she gives me too much crap.
try it once and I guarentee you never forget it.
...the chances are good you do. If you are a hobbyist, you do, in fact, have the itch. The first step is to admit it to yourself. If you really want your gf back, you'll have to also admit that fact to her. Tell her you'll never stray again, and that you'll go into therapy. Anything short of that and she'll never take you back, nor should she.
-- Modified on 7/27/2002 10:58:03 AM
let her go. Putting up with someone lying and cheating behind her back, who will most likely stray again (no matter how much you say you won't) will only cause her tremendous psychological pain.
I truly believe some men should not be in a relationship. Just stick to the hobby until you don't desire it anymore. Once desires turns from you, it will be easy to give this up. Until then you will just end up hurting your significant other. Be aware that desire may not turn from you in this lifetime.
Talisa
I really, really hate to agree with Talisa. But her advice is the most sensible, sound and altogether true.
We humans, supposedly being the most intelligent lifeforms on the planet (we assume this, because all other creatures are too smart to bother disputing us) - we think, we think, we can think our way through life. "Work this out," "think that through," "change this," "figure that out," and we ignore our instincts. Sure, we're high reasoning animals, but animals all the same.
You may have an addiction, and you may need help. Or you may just have strong animal instincts that need to be controlled. Or you may just be young. Either way, is it right to drag your girlfriend through it as you figure yourself out?
I am not quite as negative about your chances as Riker and Talisa but almost. Unless you can find a way to control these desires or beat this addiction you should let your girlfriend go. Also you must change this behaviour because you want to improve yourself not to make your girlfriend happy. If you quit this hobby just to make your SO happy you will soon resent her for it and that resentment will poison your relationship. If you have an actual addiction then you will have a long road to recovery and the pitfalls will be many. The best substance addiction programs usually only have a 20% success rate. I do not know what the success rate is for treatment of sexual addiction but would be surprised if it is significantly better. Unless you are prepared to make that sort of committment let her go.
I know that a recovering addict will typically fall-off the wagon 4 times before quitting for good but is that 20% success rate over a lifetime of the individuals or is it per treatment per person? Because maybe counting the 4 or 5 tries, it averages out to 20%...can you explain those stats?
The information I have read in the past indicated a overall rate of 20%. I must admit that I have not read anything recently on this subject. That rate has been confirmed by people that I have talked to in the rehabilitation field. In the same building that I have my office one of the businesses has an office and teaches classes to rehabilitate people convicted of spousal abuse, substance abuse, etc. Most of the people attending these clases were ordered to attend this type of class by the court and the typical class lasts about 1 year. I believe most of their business is probably spousal abuse. Based upon conversations with some of the staff they indicated that a cure rate of 20% was typical but that they only had a 50% rate of recidivism among the people that attended their classes. I can't remember the length of time they were using for that calculation. The 50% seems too good to be true. The next time I get a chance to talk with them I will try to get some clarification. I might be not understanding your post but it seems to me that you are implying that the ultimate cure rate is close to 100%. I have never heard numbers even close to that. What do you think the ultimate cure rates are?
Oh No! I see my math error! I am so terrible at math. In no way was I suggesting a 100% success rate.
What I want to know is if a person is sober for 20 years and has a relapse but they go back on the program, are they part of the 20% success or 80% failure? I ask because relapses are a big part of recovery. That doesn't mean the person is a failure. Many people will have 4 relapses before staying sober for good.
I have heard that program at Chabad House has the highest success rate in this country but I cannot verify if that is true...maybe its just P.R. I heard. Anyone out there know?
-- Modified on 7/28/2002 2:13:22 AM
my unsolicited opinions on this complex subject of relationships and sex. I've thought a lot about it, and actually have a bit of experience too. You can email me: Keanu.
I set myself parameters by which I believe I'm controlling the hobby, not the hobby controlling me. Actually, I used to go to SexAholic meetings as an escort (that's what they call it) to a friend who was struggling. I was in my born-again days so I had power to fight the desires. I was reborn from that and now I'm enjoying the desires. Plus, I've had a girlfriend (until two weeks ago) for the last three years, and we were extremely active, yet I still hobbied. Perhaps I just didn't love her enough to avoid hurting her in ways she may never even know about. Dude who posted original message?--do you love that gal enough to marry her--marriage could/should mean devotion.
Interestingly, I've been girlfriendless for 2 weeks and I'm burning up bad. This threatens the aforementioned parameters.
We are not said to be addicted to food. Yet if we quit food, we die.
Still there are those who eat for different reasons than preserving life. In fact we all eat for enjoyment, beyond sustenance. I think those who don't enjoy food have a disorder as well as those who eat in order to feel loved, or some other craziness.
Every individual has a different need for food, both in sustenance and enjoyment. Every individual has a different tolerance for different types and degrees of food. Some people's metabolism can burn huge quantities of food and use it all as energy, without adverse consequences.
Others can take only small amounts and suffer from weight-gain, and other health problems. Our need and tolerance for food is so individual that it cannot be quantified.
Those who think they have a food addiction, and starve themselves as a solution, have as much of a problem as those who overindulge to their own detriment.
Because you eat does not mean you're addicted. But there is an infinitely thin line that is measured by single M&M. Once you cross that line, you have to go back several Big Macs to regain control. But it doesn't mean you can completely eliminate your bread and butter.
Addiction isn't defined by frequency or volume....it is defined by motivation, desire, what one does to feed your habit, and ones ability to stop.
If a multi-millionaire single guy likes to pick up a $1000/hr "10" and "10" gal every week to bang like she is a blow up doll, then ruined her makeup with a facial, he isn't addicted. He might be bored, he might be misogynistic, he might just be an asshole, or he might just not want to be bothered with a real relationship. All of these things might even indicate some sort of mild mental disorder on his part. But none of them mean he is addicted, because not only could he afford to feed his craving more often, but also the habit itself is clearly not causing him any duress (financially anyway).
On the other hand, if some 30K a year working stiff saves all month for a $800 two hour session with his ATF, goes faithfully every month, and since she doesn't take credit cards, gets cash advances to pay his other bills that run up debts that never get paid, lending to credit problems and an inability to function "normally" in day to day life (can't do day to day things like rent a car when he travels on business because his credit card is maxed out from provider advances), this guy has a problem. He would go more often if he could find a way, his habit IS having clear negative impacts on his life, and despite the obvious repercussions of those impacts, he can't seem to stop going every month.
Frankly, I *DO* wonder about the sanity (call it addiction if you will) of guys who place things that they care about at risk to hobby. Lie to their wives (not just the "I'm going out to the bar" little white lie, but hiding money....to me if you have so little disposable income, whatever that amount is, that you can't dispose of a few hundred dollars without drawing suspicion, you can't afford this hobby), save up all month for a single hour of pleasure (versus taking enjoyment in other, smaller pleasures of life), selling cherished assets of value. Someone even mentioned using company assets once as a suggestion for how to hobby under the marriage radar screen...something about a company credit card or something. Sweet lawd....
That poor bastard who is worried about losing his GF because she discovered his hobbying is a perfect example. He wants to know how to set things right, but never makes any indication that he intends to stop. Hmmmm...I'm no shrink, but that sounds like an addiction to me.
When you place things you care about (relationships, employment) at risk in pursuit of a hobby, that is an addiction. When you go to extremes to finance a hobby, beyond reasonable measures (selling assets comes to mind), that is an addiction. When you have already seen the negative consequences of your actions, but don't care to stop, that is an addiction. Or...remembering or buddy who is "dating" his ATF, and listens in as she screws clients, and remembering our escort friend who lost her "$150K/year" job, and chose to escort rather than find another, even though she hates it so much she applauds every time another girl gets out of the game...when I think of those folks...when something you do causes you pain, harm, unhappiness, but you still can't stop...THAT IS AN ADDICTION.
MyLifeAsMe; posting such a broad and ignorant statement as "Addiction is defined by frequency or volume.... "?
Unheard of.
Then, of course, I read your post and realized I had read it wrong.
You are right on and I totally agree. I like having a sane person like you on the board.
riker
ps: I said "sane," not "insane
I have been wrestling with this because I don't like seeing clients whom I suspect have sexual addiction problems. That is not what its about for me. If I suspect a man is going to use up all his assets and leave his wife high and dry from hobbying, I feel sick being a part of that. Its a moral issue for me because the wife is being hurt but then again I am not responsible for his actions.
And what really blows me away are the number of married men who want to engage in unprotected acts that could result in transmission of disease. I looked one guy in the eyes and said "What would happen if you caught the clap from me and you gave it to your wife?" He stuttered how she would divorce him and his life would be ruined and he wouldn't want that. I asked him then why was he asking of a BBBJ then? There is no excuse for that kind of stupidity.
I could not be a dominatrix specializing in Financial Abuse. I have heard of clients who dig that and have been bankrupted several times over by their Domme. I just couldn't do that because it would hurt his wife though I could beat the Sh*t out of him if he digs that...LOL!
I understand the initial complaint against TBD came from a wife of a hobbyist who went bankrupt over this hobby. He left his wife with nothing. They lost their house, their savings, everything. Its a big problem and a very dark side to this business. I don't blame her at all for wanting to shut that site down. I would have done the same thing.