isn't it strange that in the same country the laws can put someone to death AS WELL  as prevent them from dying a certain death?

http://www.iht.com/articles/114972.html

Missed ya, Singey!

Okay, well, I will add some more controversy to it.  How about the fact that this is another shining example of religion dictating what people do with their bodies?  This guy is the legal next of kin for this woman, but, in the name of God "possibly" bestowing a "miracle" on this woman (and the stats don't give it much chance), it is better to keep her "technically" alive, as a monument only to the "faith" of her family and Jeb Bush and all the people against any form of voluntary life termination.

This is just one more example of why EVERYONE should have a will/living will drawn up.

This case ... where do I begin? The poor woman has been in a vegitive state with no signs of improving for 13 years. This is the second time they have removed the feeding tube, and the second time it has been put back in. The husband, and family have disagreed on this so much it makes you sick. And it dominates the news more so than Buccaneer football. Which in Tampa, is always the big story.

Now gang, I've been in the room with death before. I've seen the suffering and pain and know what it is like to sit there and watch your loved ones die, and there's nothing you can do about it. When my dad was first diagnosed with cancer 18 years ago, at first I wanted to deny it, not accept it and for him to get better. Within four weeks we knew there was never a chance of him getting better. After 8 major surgeries, hundreds of hours in the ICU, and the calm before the storm of him getting to come back home for two weeks, only to go back to the ER for the beginning of the end and then to have him pass two weeks later after another major surgery ... I knew even at age 12 that he was far better off than to try and keep him here, suffering through the pain and torment. He would not have wanted to 'live' that way.

In Terri's case, and after 13 years in the same state with no improvement, I know it may not be the popular vote, but I really feel from watching the family on the news that they are holding on to a false hope. I wish they would let her go, so that she indeed can go, and perhaps die with some shread of dignity. As it is, this on again off again with the feeding tube, moving her back and forth from hospice to hospitals, it's hell on her. Let the woman go. It's selfish for the family to keep prolonging her suffering any longer.

I cannot imagine anyone, for any reason wanting to be kept alive for so long by any means; whether it be a feeding tube, respirator or whatever ... with no improvement in 13 years, and no signs of medical science delivering a miracle either. The amount of brain damage she suffered that put her in this state, combined with all those years of inactivity, what chance is there of he ever recovering, even slightly?

Time to get a living will everyone, so that this scenario doesn't play out again. I certainly wouldn't want to go through this, or put my family through this either. If something happens, and I'm out, and no chance of recovering or improving, then let me go. And on top of that, if there's any parts you can use, take them, I won't need them anymore.

My $0.05 worth,
Jimbo

Certainly the husbands healthcare provider would have found an excuse to stop coverage years ago. You can't get blood from a turnip so who is footing the bill??. I don't wish to sound crass but if the money was coming from Jeb's pocket he would have pulled her plug long ago

   Cm.

who were social democrats & fiscal republicans.  ... Harry

Seems to me that the parents have the absolute right to keep the child they bore and raised alive, so long as they are willing to bear the expense.  Parenting is all about hope.  A parent has to believe that the puking, ignorant beast that they are looking at now will turn into a human being someday.  If the daughter never bothered to put a request into writing, then the parents wishes must trump the husband's when we are talking about life or death.

I find the arrogance of the courts profound.  The courts have seized for themselves the right to make law.  ELECTED legislatures have that right.  That is why they are ELECTED.  I applaud the Florida lawmakers for telling the judges to go and poop in their hats.  ANY judicial decision must fall to the desires of the majority people of the state.  The arrogance of judges in making laws when they do not have to face the consequences of their decisions has been instrumental in creating many horrible conditions in our society.

Screw the self rightous, over reaching and pompous twits who presume to sit in judgement over us all.

The courts are subject to the law in making their rulings.  They act as a check and balance on the Legislature.  There is a need for both.  Sometimes the courts have to make hard calls.  This is one of these cases. ... Harry

Just imagine if your pet just laid there for 13 years in vegetative state. Any you know would tell you to let your pet go, do the humane thing.

Funny how we value quality of life more for pets, than human beings.

Aside from the obvious fact that you are dead wrong (the courts have been over ruled and she is not be Starved to Death), this isn't the same as allowing a person to slip away  who is being kept alive by life support machines.  As long as she gets food and water she will live.  

How could anyone condone starving a person to death is beyond me.  That is not allowing nature to take its course, it is an execution of an innocent human being!

Kudo's to Jeb Bush for having the balls to do the right thing.  This issue is NOT a matter of law, the judges acted illegally and on their own, making up law along the way, and have been righteously slapped down!

If a person desires this kind of termination, there is a legal document called a "Living Will" which will stand up in court that allows doctors to discontinue heroic treatment.  She didn't have one!  I have one, it's recorded in the county I live in, my wife and children have a signed, notarized copies of it, but, I didn't check the box that says STARVE HIM TO DEATH!

As adults, we should be able to disagree respectfully and not talk past each other.  You have no idea from my previous post how I felt about removing a feeding tube, you just assumed you knew.

Here are some things we should consider about this sad story.

 - the courts were following settled case law.  If they had done something
    else, they would be the "judicial activists" you appear to deplore.  My
    point in the previous memo was to not to blame the courts for doing their
    job.
 - There are no simple decisions to be made around the end of life for anyone.
    A "living will" is essential (as you have appropriately pointed out).
    Sometimes "stuff happens" and the courts have to make the call.  Every case
    is hard and hard cases make for hard choices.
 - If the FL state legislature makes new law around this, they can run into
    consequences they can't anticipate.  My bet it everybody will harump for
    a while until the issue blows away.
 - Regardless of what you think you saw in the video, the poor woman is
    in a PVS.  She had lost what many people would consider an essential aspect
    of what made her human.
 
I  have not said that the rest of the world should not have to finance the fantasies of the people that believe as you do.  I can believe you are taking what, for you, is a moral position.  At the same time, you should understand that  I can support the court decisiion and feel awful about it.  It is a moral position for me. ...   Harry
 

-- Modified on 10/24/2003 12:11:16 PM

The case law you refer to I believe was a matter of brain death, she is not brain dead.

I believe in the televised reports I have seen that her parents are footing the tab for her care and have the ability to continue that after their demise.  So if the parents are willing to foot the bill, what is the problem?  Personally I don't have any problem with "society" footing the bill for people this unfortunate.  We seem to be footing the bill for a shitload of people who have no other malady than laziness.

Obviously this woman's life has meaning to her parents or they wouldn't have fought this battle.  I can't get a grip on her husbands need to see her dead.  The courts would easily enough give him a divorce and he's on his way.  Without his "need" to kill his wife, the courts are not going to be involved.

In California, as I am sure as in all states, we have thousands of people (human beings) in state hospitals who will never rejoin society in any meaningful way.  Either from birth defects, accidents or disease.  Are we to start executing them as well?  Are we to stand in judgement of their quality of life?  I say no.

I also don't understand your position that supporting a court decison to execute an innocent human being as being a moral position.   Court rulings are set aside daily, they are far from perfect.  It is the reason we have automatic appeals in death penalty cases.  More than just a few of those death sentence "court rulings" are set aside annually for just cause.

I do apologize if I came on too strong and misunderstood your point of view.  But to me, supporting the court ruling, even if it makes you feel bad is wrong minded in this type of case.

If you can be PM'd I'll reply to you.  If you can't, I will respond here.  You have asked some hard questions and I want to respond in an appropriate way. ... Harry