TER General Board

Re:But why is it....
Pyotr_Ivanovich 3 Reviews 2336 reads
posted

Opposing the war and supporting "our" troops at the same time may seem a nice easy middle-of-the-road position, but like many such it may be found on close examination to contain irreconcilable contradictions.  (I put "our" in quotation marks because their commander in chief was not elected and the government that they more generally serve does not represent the American people.)

My own attitude towards the young people in US uniforms today is rather like what I feel towards todays' crop of recruits into the Crips, the Bloods, or the Mafia.  I do wish them well as fellow citizens and fellow human beings, but both for their own sake and that of their potential victims I heartily regret and wish undone their choice to join an organization dedicated to violence.

Lass brings up the thoroughly relevant matter of people's reasons for enlisting, but then she is curiously reticent about it.  She writes, "Many go into the military for many different reasons. . . . He joined the Marines for a couple of reasons"--but she then offers no specifics or further explanation in either case.  

Wanting to serve the cause of freedom even at the cost of one's own life is a noble motive, certainly.  So perhaps is wanting to serve the cause of Allah (the merciful, the compassionate) even at the cost of one's own life, like John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban."  To combine the well-known sayings of General Sherman and Dr. Johnson, the road to war is paved with good intentions.  But when it comes to being prepared not merely to die but also to kill for a cause, surely there is some moral necessity at least to make sure of the righteousness of the cause first.  (Gandhi suggested however that while many causes might be worth dying for, none was worth killing for.)

Yes, Lass, people who enlist in the U.S. armed forces ought to be aware that "there is always that chance they will go to war."  They ought also to be aware that there is no guarantee or even much likelihood that if war comes, the cause that they will be fighting for will be freedom, in any meaningful sense of the word.  And they themselves are thus likely to wind up killing innocent people in an unconscionable cause, and going to meet their maker either then or later with the mark of Cain upon their souls.

But like their colleagues the tobacco merchants, the merchants of death in our military recruitment offices shrewdly target those who are too young to have figured this out or to be governed by reason at all.  That they will be ignorant of history is also a good safe bet.

There is a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."  (Yes, yes, I know there's a Bushspeak version of it too.)  If today's US warriors were old enough to remember the Tonkin Gulf hoax, or the infamous baby-incubator hoax of Gulf War I, I'd say shame on them for signing up now.  As it is, I say shame on my own generation for not wising them up.

My god people, we're tearing each other apart here. What the hell is happening to us?? I can understand that we are all under a higher level of stress lately due to the obvious, but it seems that everything that is said lately sparks it's own little war of sorts, no matter who says it.

In the grand scheme of things, i know that we that read this board and enjoy it so much(usually anyway) comprise just a minuscule microcosim of society as a whole, but i would hope that there is still a relatively good cross section of people here. That being said, if it's happening here, want's going to start happening on the streets soon??? It kinda makes you wonder alittle before stepping out the door in the morning.

I do support our men and women in all military branches. Not because i do or don't feel any particular way about Iraq. How i feel doesn't come into play. I support them because they deserve it. It's the least i can do for the people that go to places i hope never to have to go and do the things things i hope never to have to do so that i may sit here and write this. Right or wrong has little to do with it to me, they get my neverending support because they chose to give there life for me if that's what it takes. That's all i'm going to say on the issue, and i only said that much to clarify that one thing for everyone who reads this.

Perhaps we could all try to reel ourselves back in alittle, or check our thoughts on certain things at the door alittle more and get back to the basics of what we are all here for in the first place?

While i don't post often, i do very much enjoy my time digging thru the site as a whole. But lately it has become it seems to remind me more of Jerry Springer out takes then The Erotic Review.

Yes,yes, i know......General Discussion should be just that, and maybe if the issues at hand were alot more cut and dried, it would be. We do all have the right to say what we wish, just as i am now. It seems lately that we are being hit with a lack of credible information while at the same time being flooded with so much of it that it's causing sensory overload. I know, that makes no sence at all, but it's the best i can put it at the moment. All of which adds to the confusion which may lead to fear which usually manifests itself as anger.

Maybe we can all try to get back to discussing the thing that brought us all here in the first place. The thing we all look forward to and enjoy so much. Hobbying!!!!!  :-P

That being said........let the flaming begin.  

Sweet Nicole4886 reads

Wow! a man after my own heart....I agree! Are we having fun,yet?!:)
Sweet tastes better than sour! Don't worry be happy! :)

qp43944 reads

Passed some young girls on a side walk today, maybe 13-15 years of age, waving peace signs and yelling peace slogans at motorists.  Thought I'd give it a try, so asked them what age they thought were the men and women out in the sand going to battle for us.  They answered 19-23, which I considered pretty perceptive.  I then asked how they will feel when 6-8 years from now their 19-23 year old boy and girl friends (and maybe themselves) might very likely be out in the same sand fighting the same battles against the same but far more technologically destructive enemy.  There these girls' perception died and they hemmed and hawed, and as I walked on I sensed a considerable drop in their peace slogan enthusiasm.  None of us know for sure the relative risk/reward of this thing and the right answer only will be written in the prognostigators' guesses as to what might be or what might have been, so like most big decisions there's an equally big risk.  All I know for sure is that we don't want to be on the losing side because political democracy and economic capitalism are inexorably linked and the former collapses without the latter into class warfare and eventually totalitianism.  I'm not a Bushy and believe the coup he and his Repub friends pulled was unforgivable, but on the issue of Iraq and like situations I agree with him.  And those young girl;s I passed on the side walk -- I think deep down they also now are more likely to.

qp43067 reads

Hardly debate, just asking them to think one step further than fashion and popularity.  One small step.  Interesting that they did it with little more than recognition of enlightened self interest.  Just like most of us and most of our leaders and most of other nations' leaders.  Sad but true, we must watch out for ourselves as well as being compassionate for others, cause no on is being particularly compassionate toward us.

foo3895 reads

Correction: With enough heat, and something shiny for the back.

-- Modified on 3/20/2003 2:21:38 PM

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