Business is slow right now.  But if you think we will benefit from some kind of a price war among providers, you are mistaken.  In the end, we will be the losers.  Right now, we have a huge selection of some of the finest providers in the world.  The rates we pay for what we get is a deal.

The competition should be in the service they provide, not the rates they charge.  If it becomes so cut throat, that the average rate plummets to $100.00 an hour or less, all the decent girls will leave the hobby.  We will be left with nothing more than street walkers: Our wonderful situation will be gone.  Remember the days before the internet?  

The girls set their rates according to what they feel they are worth. If it is too much for you to handle, shop around for a provider with a lower rate.  If you haggle with a provider just to get her to lower her rate about $20.00 or so, what kind of service do you expect?  

You have just told her she is not worth much.  Regardless of what her profession is, she is still a human being with feelings of self worth. When you don’t get the affection you expect, GFE, you write her a bad review.  The old adage, “you get what you pay for” really applies here.

The girls have overhead and don’t get paid for every hour of the day.  I am sure in many cases they wait around all day without a single appointment. They have rent advertising and many other expenses just to stay in business.

As men of the hobby, we need to dig a little deeper in our pockets and patronize the girls more often until the economy picks up. Remember guys, they are here for our enjoyment and personal pleasure.  When they are gone; they are gone. Let us rise to the occasion and save our magnificent ladies.
 

I normally leave the girls a gift that exceeds what they ask for because:
#1 They are people and they are worth it.
#2 I really enjoy a womans time.
#3 She did choose to see me.
#4 The gift is just that, a gift, and our time together is ours.
#5 I like the women I see to feel special and want to see me again.

Just my opinion.

Flame away!

To all the ladys out there:
BIG HUG!!!!!
Scot.

What a bunch of drivel.

The basic model here is supply and demand.

The girls will charge what they can get, and we will pay what we can pay.  

"dig deeper until the economy picks up" ... what a bunch of huey.

There are some amazing ladies out their who really earn those $$$ and $$$$, considering their beauty, skills, and willingness to provide their heartfelt and loving services to us needy guys. If it's not worth their while, they'll find something else to do. This grand combination of the internet (especially TER), current market price/value, and lack of LE hassles has created a wonderful level of service available to those of us who would otherwise be left to deal with streetwalkers and "high-priced call girls" (remember that phrase) through hard-to-find agencies. I don't expect to pay bargain prices for high-class service, even in these so-called tough times.

-- Modified on 9/28/2002 9:08:47 PM

I like to meet new ladies.  I have often told myself that there is always time to see my local favorites a few weeks later.  In the meanwhile, I spent the money on newly popular ladies in LA and some wonderful visitors as well.

During the summer time, I have realized that this business is in a real slowdown.  I was worried about how some of my favorites were doing but I was reassured by noticing that the frequency of reviews about them has remained roughly the same.  I guess I was just deceiving myself.

The other night, I was shocked to learn from a roommate of one of the sweet ladies I met before that their phone was silent for quite a while.  They were actually surprised by the number of reviews posted recently.  Obviously, some of the members just post virtual reviews to fulfill their VIP status.  The ladies’ rates are actually very, very competitive in LA, so I don’t think it is a factor.  Since there is lots of overhead involved in providing a clean, safe and convenient incall location, being students themselves, they are anxious about what is going to happen next.

I plead guilty for neglecting my favorite ladies.  It is hard for the ladies to convey their worries to us as they are the ones that are supposed to give us a good time.  Sometimes hobbyists are too cynical about the ladies.  Too often signs of their distress are treated as ploys to get our sympathy and more of our money.

Some of my favorites are no longer available although their ads are still lingering in the internet.  I still remember the good times I had with those ladies.  I am sad that I could no longer contact them and spend time together.

In a way, ladies are men-pleasing artists that require loyal patrons in order to provide wonderful services.  Let’s stop straying for a while, pay visits to our personal favorites and ensure their welfare in this slow economy.

"bad money drives out good money", I don't think cutthroat competition is healthy in providing a safe and comfortable environment for this hobby.  Normal supply and demand can lead to lots of bankruptcy.  In addition, the lag time to achieve equilibrium could be long and painful.

p.s. I don't claim to be good in economics.  “bad money” is usually associated with hyper inflation.  The law is quoted here as a loose analogy.

-- Modified on 9/28/2002 11:17:34 PM

I agree..stay with your fav's to keep them in business

There is cut throat competition in various markets, telecommunications, internet access, web browsers, gasoline, airlines, etc, but you will not see it among providers for one simple reason. All those items above have easily available substitutes. Don't like Mobil gas, Shell is just as good. I challenge anyone to tell the difference between a call placed on Sprint and a call on MCI. For the most part there is no difference between a flight on Delta and a flight on United. But with the ladies there is a difference. Often a big one, when it comes to service, atmosphere and lots of other intangibles. For that reason, you cant just compare the price of an hour with Jennifer with an hour with Shannon (or whoever) because you are not getting the same thing.

Secondly changes in pricing at Delta affect prices at United almost immediately because of the transparency of those markets. The airlines watch each other and match each others prices instantly. You can pull up a list of flights on Expedia and see the prices right away. That perfect information doesnt exist in this market (though TER helps make it a bit better known) so this market is much more inefficient when it comes to responding to prices, therefore it doesnt pay the ladies to compete that much on price except to not get too far outside the established norms. A Gas station cuts its price in half and it will have cars lines up around the block, but because of imperfect information in this market, a provider who suddenly cut her prices in half would raise more questions than appointments. Rather than rushing to make an appointment, many people would be suspicious that something was wrong and stay away.

Actually, you see, seeing your favorite ASP and paying her full rate is going to HELP the economy. She is going to take that cash and go out and spend it... on whatever she spends it on!  Thus that money is going BACK into the economy... if we all stop spending, the economy will grind to a halt!  

I will lower my rates, I promise! As soon as the hotels lower theirs. As soon as my mortgage payment goes down enough to really make a difference.  As soon as I am able to go to the grocery store and see how much cheaper everything is.  

Hugs*
Nicole

Ace, you've not convinced me that American escorts need to be paid more than brain surgeons or top lawyers and other professionals who work long years and often spend a decade in university training, logging 90 hour weeks. US vix prices are unheard of in the rest of the world.
Your case is very weak.

Too many American women are unduly spoiled, in love with themselves, and too often have attitude from here to the moon and back.

Client service is not even in the vocabulary of most American escorts, just that rare few whom we've found through hard research. They too run when you're broke! Surprise!
To most escorts, we are ATMs with schlongs.

Look for example at your home town Eros escorts board.
DC today has close to 200 listed. How many are total GFE at $250-350 per hour. Just several. How many think they piss platinum?
A lot more than several. LOL. American women and escorts usually think they are doing us men a big favor with a cbj and cfs for US$300-400. The more men learn, the more we ignore American escorts, and for good reason.

Frequent travels abroad and a few years of living outside the US have been a real eye opener to the many members of the schlong family. Cities such as Montreal, Victoria BC, Caracas, Rio de Janiero, St Petersburg, Budapest, Bucharest, Prague, and many others have more beautiful women by far, at one half to one third the cost of much poorer service in the US.

European and Canadian escorts are more fit physically and mentally by far again. It's hard to find an obese provider on a European website. Euro photographers use the wide angle lens for panaromic scenery instead. In the US bbws are a subculture full of self promotion,always throwing guilt trips at gullible guys who prefer healthy women with a lower body mass who think and train before they eat massive quantities of food day after day.

Culturally there is no comparison between the spoiled American women and others. You often find European escorts are university students in "real" subjects, interested in fine art, music, reading, travel, and more. American women tend to be more interested in "shallow" subjects and lives, shopping malls rather than libraries or the theatre. I've taken a few elegant women to the opera, but they were not spoiled American brats.

A US provider who charges $200 per hour and works an average of 10 hours per week will have a gross cash income of $104,000. Sit on that for a long while. I do not feel sorry for such a woman. Few escorts could make one-fourth of that in the real world.
Others, such as teachers at every level are far more deserving.

Maybe you should do some traveling after a few days of research, Ace, and see whom you are missing. Start with Montreal and Victoria BC, then hop across the pond for a week in Europe with Capt69's reviews as a guide.
A week in Caracas or Rio would stir your blood as well.

Go read the thread on American wives below also while you are at it. LOL. Most American men are being manipulated unmercifully by wives, girlfriends, and, yes, by escorts too.

This is  all a chaotic genetic Darwinian accident of history and evolution, you realize.

I like those alternate worlds where women are desperate to be  
boinked, multi-popped, and always want a huge uncovered anaconda schlong deep in their mouths, so much that they pay us guys for the privilege to satisfy their deepest needs. On these worlds women wear tank tops inscribed with the national slogan: "Please ChokeF**k Me NOW!!"

In those worlds I charge $200 an hour and manage to live on $104,000 per annum. That's just ten hours a week. the rest of the time I have a regular otherworld job doing something worthwhile, not whining, not overeating, taking regular continuing education courses, trying to contribute to the other world and not be a parasite taking advantage of the deep carnal needs of lusting foolish women who are constantly wet and begging for schlong.

Every Sunday in OtherSchlongWorld I do freebies for homeless vixens with pouty lips, with unlimited doggie, simply for food stamps, which I exchange for the fluid replacement kits all men in that world must carry with them in case of gang-sucks.LOL



-- Modified on 9/29/2002 2:11:58 PM

-- Modified on 9/29/2002 2:22:33 PM

-- Modified on 9/29/2002 5:44:35 PM

i wish i could give you sweeties a bj for showing and acting on concerns for your favorites welfare.
honest, you just made my day.
i'm one of the gals that is still doing ok, but not near as great as i was a couple months ago and i must admit i was about to fret.
i've made some changes to my website (hockey road trip TBA dates) and opened up my weekends for nekkid football debauchery,
which i have Yet to be taken up on!! astounding!


everyone who calls up an oldie but a goodie, enjoy that virtual bj i am sending your way...
and dont forget to take me up on the real thing when i visit
Nicole

knowledgeable.

Im looking forward to seeing you in the huddle.

So will you be playing for shirts or skins?

WWWWEEEEEE  HHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!

The model cited by John Galt is incomplete. It is true that visiting escorts is not like buying gas or air traveling by air. However, escorts do compete with entirely distinct entertainment venues, such as sports, watching TV, going to the movies, and perhaps more to the point, self-pleasuring via porn, magazines etc. When economic times get really tough, people tend to eliminate their high-cost discretionary pasttimes, and resort to the lower-cost alternatives. Probably the bulk of escorts are already seeing these effects on their business.

If we are truly moving into another recession, combined with a further deflation in assets (stock market, real estate), then everyone will be impacted to a greater or lesser degree. Right now we are facing a historic (yes, greater than the tulip or railroad booms) bubble burst with the massive decline in all stock market indices. Should the U.S. dollar and real estate suffer similar declines, then we will be moving into a deflationary environment unmatched in U.S. history. Perhaps some few providers at the high-end will be protected to some extent, but deflation is deflation, and prices for all services will necessarily contract, or go out of business.

Saying that the above market forces will not operate on providers because "they're different", reminds me too much of the high (or infinite) P/E ratios justified by stock analysts for dot-com stocks.  

I for one would be a more active hobbyist if I could have the chance to "look first" by having a drink at a bar or restaurant be a built-in part of the deal.  I am not willing to risk $$$ or $$$$ very often if all I have to go by is internet pics and the usual string of reviews.  Knowing that things will "click" is easy in person.

You are very right.
I wish there were parties where the guys could go once a month or eey 6 months and hook up with providers during the slow season.
I offer this service but there is a fee.
I always hit my mark but I market myself well through word of mouth.
Many ladies are highly savvy when it comes to this nature of the business.
I wish you all good luck!

Thanks you so much for voicing an opinion about something so sensitive and something that means allot to many ladies.
There are so many ladies who do not have the confidence and thus when asked to reduce their rates, it is an insult to them and it brings their self esteem level even lower.
Thank you.

Reading various boards, I heard that it was summer time and the biz usually takes a break. Now I hear that the stock market is the cause for the slow biz. I can understand hobbyist who no longer have a paycheck to support their local lovies, so there are fewer buyers in the market. But a declining stock market?

The market has been on a dive since March 2000 and most people probably have seen their portfolios and 401(k)s whacked since 2001. A bit late to claim that it is the falling stock market when everybody is hoping for that big recovery. When are we going to start using the "Saddam effect" as another reason for providers to lower their rates? The Internet boom of the last several years is finally dead and buried. Have hobbyists finally found a "temporary" weapon to lower rates?

Maybe instead of asking for lower rates, hobbyists should start to ask for rational pricing to return. Top shelf providers should deserve a premium, while newbies with a pretty face or body should be put on notice that before they start to ask for those 5$ or 6$ gifts, their reviews better justify those numbers. And that's if they have any. I'm not even talking about those ladies from the agencies. There are newbies entering some markets with very wacko rates, like in NY. Talk about price inflation. Prices are out of whack and the market place needs to straighten out the rates some how. A strike anyone?

If there was, that would affect provider prices along with everything else. Providers do respond to economic conditions along with everyone else, but it is the nature of their business that they dont get into massive price wars because they dont directly compete with each other, and their prices are stickier because of imperfect information in the marketplace.

every day, would you raise your rates? Damn straight you would (ask Morgan Ashley or Ali). If you ask $400/hour and are only seeing 2 guys a week, but could see 4 guys a week if you asked $300, would you be better off lowering your rates? Again, damn straight. Let go of this bullshit "worth it" and figure out how to run a BUSINESS. Ladies, you aren't in this as a hobby (like we are...lol), it is your BUSINESS....get a clue.

By all means dont stop. Your point that cut throat competition would not be good for hobbyists is completely true as one of the main benefits of the LA Market is its vast and varied supply of providers. Luckily, like I said, the chances of this type of competition breaking out are remote in the market segment we patronize. Though among streetwalkers it could more easily happen because the characteristics of that market are more like pure or perfect competition (essentially identical services and no way to differentiate between them when they are not).

I agree with you somewhat, but would you be willing to pay for the privilege? I ask that because as anyone who has sold cars before knows (especially desireable but somewhat affordable cars like say entry level BMWs, Camaros, and the like - kewl cars in that 25 to 40 thousand price range) there are ALOT more people who want "kick the tires" than who want to buy, and there are many, many people who have no intention of buying at all, but make a hobby out of going on test drives.

It wouldn't take much to imagine there being dweebs out there who would waste a different girls time every other night wanting to get an "in person impression".

So...again, would you be willing to pay? If so, how much?

Again, I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure how it could be implemented to the mutual long term benefit of all involved.


-- Modified on 9/30/2002 4:00:12 AM

You assume a price elasticity of demand which may not be true (a 25% cut in price would double their business). Also you assume that the ladies purpose is to maximize her revenue which may also not be true.

I am much more concerned about earning my first "X" dollars per month, than I am about earning the second "X" dollars in that month. Maybe I would rather go somewhere fun on the weekend rather than work and earn the second block of cash. Maybe the ladies would prefer to make $800 a week seeing two customers, than $1200 a week seeing four. Look at it this way, using your own numbers, they earn $400 each on the first two customers, but only have a marginal revenue of $200 each on the second two if they cut their rates. Given they have to double their work to earn half as much on the second two guys, maybe they are running their business like a business and deserve just a little more credit than you give them. If they then dropped their rates to $150 and attracted 15 customers per week (only three per day) they could almost double their revenue again, but again that assumes that their main objective is to increase their revenue and their marginal profit on the extra 11 guys they would attract by cutting their rates to $150, would only be only $95 a piece.

All these guys willing to unselfishly educate the ladies on how much more money they could make by cutting their rates...I can feel the altrustic love, though I am willing to state for the record now, I am willing to pay $95 for a $400 escort any day of the week. Line up ladies...I have my bankroll available.

Thus ends this session of Economics LA, part 7 in a 17 part series on price elasticity in Client/Escort microeconomic transactions.

Of course you economists and mathematicans out there assume that this hyperthetical "lady" you are talking about is a "heartless" s_x manic who can service anywhere from two to x number of visitors a day without a drop of sweat.

And let's thank all the powers of good that exist in the world for that, shall we??? While we're at it, let me add that I do not need any favors from you... nor do I think that I piss platinum... nor do I feel a need to make you feel guilty for preferring ladies of a different body type than I.

The problem with generalizations, is, as always, they are SO DARNED GENERAL.

i would say that I, and many other wonderful ladies in DC (whose body types you may prefer) have extremely fair rates. Speaking for myself I am here to tell you that I am not here to do you a favor. I am here to HAVE FUN.  This context allows me to do that... in my personal life I rarely have *this* kinda fun!  

You had to know by posting this that many of us reputable ladies would really resent the implication that *all* American women, especially those of us who are escorts, are spoiled rotten brats who just want to manipulate you.  So it shouldn't even be necessary for me to say it, but I will anyways.  

You left out a smidge lil' teensy factor in your consideration of Canadian women who charge far less than American women.  In Canada, it's LEGAL to be an escort.  HELLO?  Doesn't that make you ponder why so many of the lovely ladies travel to the states all the darned time... so they can charge MORE? BTW, what is the American dollar worth in Canada? I honestly am not sure but I do believe it's worth MORE than the Canadian dollar... so when you factor that in, Canadian women travelling here are probably getting paid far more than DOUBLE their normal rates.

Boy you surely are bitter!

Sincerely,
Nicole

Whatever the economic factors are as they relate to this business, I don't pretend to know other than basic supply and demand. It appears to me that from the number of visiting escorts and girls offering specials (in LA), that supply must be exceeding demand right now. LA is a magnet for visiting escorts because the smaller cities can't support the normal number of girls if the demand is low. Seems kind of basic and simple to me. Let's face it, most of the escorts aren't business school grads so they will be acting & reacting to the most basic principles.

First, to compare escorts to established "legitimate" professions is erroneous. This is an underground economy where it doesn't take a degree to get a job and where the customers are not looking for a certificate on the wall. I personally have met some escorts who started out in legitimate business jobs and found the escort business to be more to their liking. Can you blame them if they prefer to work less and get paid more? Hell I would if I could, but I don't think I would make much as a stud for hire.

I've never seen "escorts" in any of the cities you mention but when I was in Bangkok 2 years ago, I saw 2 girls for 2 hours in one of the nicest AMP's in the city (like a nice hotel, with jacuzzie baths in the room) for the unbelievable price of $120 including tips. These girls were eqivalent to the best you could find at the best AMPs in LA. The AMP in LA that I'm most familiar with doesn't come close to the level of atmosphere or ammenities and for the same 2 girls for 2 hrs would cost about $400 (and no jacuzzi bath) including tips. In Bangkok I could also go to a good restaurant and get a great meal for $10 - $15 that would have cost $30 - $50 here.

So everything is relative to the economic conditions of the locale. Most of the cities you mention are in countries where the US dollar is strong. LA is one of the more expensive cities to live in, so is it that surprising that escorts here can charge what they do? Las Vegas has much higher rates in general than LA. From what I've seen other cities in the US have generally lower rates than LA.

I really can't address the other aspects of your post because I don't go to see an escort based on her level of education or cultural experience. I'm not looking for the type of lady to take on a 4 hr dinner date. But that's just me. So far, most of the ladies I've seen in LA have provided a very good level of service with just enough intimacy to make it seem "real." I know it is not what it appears to be but I have rarely felt shortchanged with the escorts in LA.

Back east, say in NY, visitors are coming from all points, especially from FL. The ones from FL are asking reasonable rates. One lady understands this market quite well. She may not have an MBA, but she does have the brains for the biz! As for some other ladies asking 5$ or 6$, go figure. In these so called hard times, are the NY gents going to support their local ladies or let their passions lead them to wherever?

Not that I agree with everything but I thoroughly enjoyed it, laughed out loud several times.  I have been to Montreal and the exchange rate of 1.5 to 1 makes the 200 dollar an hour girl 130 bucks or so, so it's a very good bargain.  And the Canadian econmy is not a depressed cheap place to live.  In fact even with the exchange rate many items are higher priced then the U.S.  You could buy a plane ticket for about 450 bucks round trip, a hotel for 80 a night and still come out way ahead for a weekend of fun.

It's not really as simple as supply and demand.  

Remember, the laws of supply and demand relate to commodity markets, where the commodity in question is fungible.  If you believe the escort market is a commodity (a hole is a hole), then you are right, and you will go to the lowest offer.  Otherwise, it becomes much more complex.

Of course American and other women who charge brain surgeon rates but have only a GED will be angry at my viewpoints.
I think their rates are excessive, and that we men are being manipulated badly because of our biological needs.
Beautiful international women are most definitely my  preference.

The women I've actually seen for $250-$1500 do not know if I consider their rates excessive. It would not be gentlemanly to discolor a date with such criticism.

Almost all of my 40+ reviews are full of praise. The $1500 overnight, however, a BDJ girl, and a spoiled New Yorker, was the worse experience I ever had with a provider. After a mechanical round one, I retired to the fireplace and my sleeping bag. LOL. She had been an ATF earlier in the week, but was worn out by a week of agency overbooking. Go figure.

I'd say there are a few ladies who make as much as doctors and lawyers. Anne Marie, charging $12k a day, would be one. My latest experience with a lawyer, I got pulled over driving on a suspended license. He spent exactly 15 minutes in court getting the charges dropped, and about ten minutes with me in his office getting info ahead of time. $350.  Baby, I do not make THAT kind of money. $700/hour!!!

I have a doctor who charges $260 for a 5 minute procedure. I do NOT make that kind of money. I just wish I did. $3120 per hour!

So I don't know who you are seeing who DOES make that kind of money, but I hope they are fabbbbbbulous at what they do! I do not think the majority of ladies available charge rates of $260 for five minutes.

Sincerely,
Nicole