One thing that really bothers me is when people try to ‘pigeon-hole’ Providers into a ‘type’ of person that would ‘do this’ for a living. Some sort of disturbed past to include child or spousal abuse, sexual assault, or a drug habit.

Providers are no different than anybody else you know. If you were to take a history of your co-workers lives and of their past, you will find the same percentages with drug or alcohol problems, abusive parents or spouses, and the same numbers of females who’ve been sexually assaulted.

Some say Providers have a high incidence of being rape or assault victims. For openers, one out of every three females (notice I didn’t say women) have been or will be sexually assaulted, and get this – not just once in their lives.
The next time you are at Company-wide meeting, or a huge BBQ with friends and family, just count the number of females there and 1/3 of them have already or will be sexually assaulted. There are members of your own family, co-workers, neighbors and friends who’ve been sexually assaulted and you don’t even know it. Most women don’t tell. Most women never tell. To say that Providers have a high incidence would be no surprise to me at all as, as I said, 1/3 of females have been, and yes, Providers are female, too. Most of my non-Provider girlfriends, and several family members have been assaulted, and some, also, more than once. Sexual assault has no favoritism on age, class, or vocation.

It bothers me that people want to find the ‘reasons behind’ why we do what we do, as if what we do is some sort of abhorrent thing and therefore would require some sort of deviant person or terrible past!  STOP SEEING US AS VICTIMS!!

I was at a photo-shoot last year with 5 other Providers at one of their homes. She made quite a fun time of it with drinks, food, good music and it was so fun (for the photographer, especially!) to walk around naked, just us girls. We got on this very subject. What one lady said is so true, and that’s what I want to, very importantly, get across to you:  Providers are an exceptional breed of women. They are stronger, more courageous, more loving and more compassionate. In many ways, they are fearless, and driven – driven to remain independent and freely self-sufficient. Those who have been assaulted have gone past that and are that much more determined not to let that get them down, but rather, push forward.

The fact that people want to see us as victims, means they don’t see us AT ALL!!

Don't let the jerks get you down.  Most of us appreciate who you all are and what you do for a living in the face of the stigmas and LE concerns.

Keep fighting the good fight.  Our main complaint is usually that our time together is often too short........

Maybe it's because we want to believe you aren't doing it for the money.  

I think (projecting here) that most of the ladies I have met do it because it pays well and they have found they are good at some aspects of it.  Further, it provides a lifestyle that gives them more independence than many jobs.  Finally, it feels good to be appreciated by other people.  

I am sure there are ladies who  have other reasons.

the men have.

I've allways thought there were three types of women who became providers.  Blonds, Brunettes, and Red Heads.  Really I do not mean to make light of such a serious subject. I applaude this thread and those who posted here.All people should be viewed as the indivduals that makes up such a diverse group.Above all remember  ,Labels are just another stereotype and in some way we are all an exception.

The Pigeon-holing of who you ladys really are is just another way to see how society in general is informed.

People have had a certain image pounded into their heads over and over again for generations thru every type of media you can think of. When well over 90% of what you see and read keeps showing the same type of women in a certain situation you tend to start to believe it for fact that ALL people in that profession are the same.

We here on this board know differently, as do many others i'm sure. But the general public only knows what they see and read thru the news media, which is never good and never in a positive light.

When I first started lurking here, I carried a lot of society's notions about providers and their clientele- hookers and johns to the civvy world.

Particpating in both the action and the boards, I have come to see that the ladies are usually pretty cool and that the men have a great attitude towards them.  There is actual reverence and love for good providers, something that suprised me.

Like discovering that the Marijuana industry is actually made up of pretty cool mom and pop operations- this was a revelation!

Ayuthing I could say would be out of pure Jealousey, because I'm not a women and didn't get the chance to go into the buisness.

At the end of the day, once we are past the age of reason, none of us are victims. While we can't control what happens to us in this life, I truly believe we can choose how we react to what happens to us. For whatever reasons providers become and remain providers, none of us, whether we participate in the "game" or not, have any right to judge another's choices. We have only the right to shape our own behavior.

Peace

I do take exception your last paragraph, where you post a positive sterotype against the negative one.  For myself, I'd just leave it at providers are as diverse a group as any other.  There are many who fit your description (I've been lucky enough to meet a few of these, including with your lovely self). There are also some who fit the stereotype, and there are plenty who fall somewhere in between.

I couldn't agree more.  It is amazing how many females have been a victim of some sort of sexual agression.  My only confusion has been why women (females) don't treasure the males who are repulsed by such behavior? Probably because we are difficult to 'spot'. In fact, the only problem I have ever had with this hobby is being sure to identify a provider who is in no way a 'victim' (too young, exploited, etc.) which does exist out there.  I wish more 'mature' providers wanted to be reviewed...they have been the best experiences-confident, enjoy their work, love their many men and can hold up the discussion side of the session.

Good post, Sedona

I hate being put into a category, myself. NO-not all of us are drug addicts (shooting up, doing crack, whatever else), living on welfare, with tons of babies by different fathers, etc., etc.,. For myself, I don't do drugs ( a toke here and there, when I was in my teens, coming to realize, it wasn't for me), I never had kids, I am a social drinker (a couple with friends/clients), and otherwise, always been considered too much of a "do gooder" by my friends, when I was growing up, and still now (if only they knew what I do now LOL). The group of ladies that I know, who are in this business, and I call my closet friends, are strong, steadfast ladies, who take care of themselves, and their families! I have a high sex drive, and I have realized by being in this business, that I am able to express myself sexually to another man that I may never see again, which could be very exciting, in itself
Anyways, just my 0.02 cents..

Mel

-- Modified on 3/16/2004 6:44:48 PM

Sedona, well said.  All-but-one lady I've had the pleasure of spending time with have been outstanding individuals who could carry on a nice intelligent conversation.  To me, it is part of the overall experience.

IMHO, providers are a very SPECIAL breed! They provide an intimacy that is difficult to attain elsewhere for many reasons. They tolerate some crude behavior and move on. They provide a required relief which can't seem to be duplicated alone!!!
and yet, many seem to be vilified!!!
Too me, they are beautiful, giving creatures who make up for what we miss in life and, often, save us from oblivion.

providers in terms of having it together.  Many of the stereotypes refer to the bottom 60%.

So people think that a woman has to be messed up to have sex with strangers, and that she must be paying some terrible psychological price when she does so.  

yet feel that you took the words right out of my mouth.
I think that if you love sex and your good at making your partner feel as if he is the only man on earth........... I would consider it a "gift".
I love what I do " being a provider" of affection & attention it gives me great satisfaction to feel needed, to make my partner forget about the world outside and just focus on us. On our bodies, caressing and our breathing.

I have many goals both personal and spiritual, however what I have been doing the last 4 years will forever be in my memory as some of the best years of my life. I have never regretted the CHOICE to enter this biz and meet all of these wonderful people.......NEVER!

kisses & licks.......
mara of san diego

p.s. great post Sedona........kisses

I recently took a class on diversity. My assignment was to interview someone at my workplace that was "Diverse" from me and make a presentation.

My class consisted of 5 women and myself and the professor was a woman too. The ages ranged from 32 to 55. So the class had just the right amount of testosterone. 1 man and 6 women (LOL) I chose to interview someone from this community. I wanted to present someone that was going to shake the perceptions and prejudges of the group.

As expected, during the interview, I was able to hear an amazing story from a world-class human being. She was very open and honest and shared some very personal details of her life. I was blown away that she would let me in that far with out ever meeting. I truly hope she writes a book someday!

Well as I was preparing my presentation, I could sense her tension that I was going to dwell on her "provider" side. I assured her that really I wanted to share her story as a woman and as she stated her providership as her hobby. (The real hobbiest!)

The presentation was perfect. I shared all of the triumphs and tribulations of her life. Never mentioning her hobby part. When the class asked me what she did for a living I shared about her businesses and her hobby. They were all blown away. The self proclaimed, “Save the world” person couldn’t even get angry about how “prostitution was exploitative”. I felt that the class really identified with her courage as a woman, as a Human being.

So to you Sedona or any other human out there, ignorance brings out labels. Everyone, male of female has his or her story. If someone says “you are the __________ type” it should be because you are happy doing it not because of some pre-conceived ideas about you.

Sorry for the length of this post.

Well said. I have to disagree in many cases just from experience. Many providers have told me that they were "forced" into the work because of deadbeat fathers or other family issues and felt this was the only way for them to ever see daylight financially.Many providers have told me, they hate doing what they are doing and can't wait to get out of the business.More power to you if you enjoy the work and achieve your life's goals. Good luck.

Re: (eom)

I wasn't speaking of motherhood.  Please pass me a brownie.

It's so annoying to hear or read the boo-hoo crap about sexual assault. Ladies, when will you understand that it's natural law in effect. The same natural law that women practice everyday in society, but men are required to neuter.
When a guy sexually assualts you it's because he can. He is more powerful and uses that power for his benefit.
Females in our world practice natural law everyday. They constantly seek out the; fittest, richest and most handsome males, while ignoring the other 80% of the men in the world. What are these guys supposed to do to sow their seed? Use physical force to get his needs met. Sexual assault. Thats what. Thats the male answer to the female requirements. Ladies had better have their flock of pretty boy rich men to protect them from the undesirable male that she would never have any part of.

The stupid attempt of guilty feeelings brought on by the 1 in 3 women at a BBQ have been assualted. There is an inverse side to that. 2 in 3 men at that same BBQ have been treated like dirt, ignored, or worse by these same ladies that have been\will be assualted.
There is nothing worse then the everyday lack of acknowledgment from a women when you hold the door for her at the bank, arriving at the checkout counter at the same time and smiling at the woman as you let her go in front of you, you know, being courteous, what do you receive in return? a look of entitlement, that she DESERVED to be in front of you. Of course, there is no reply of thank you, or a smile of gratefulness.
I can see why a guy might finally have enough of the BS and do something to a lady. Women have forgotten their place in society. All this equality crap. were not equal, were men. Warriors. Women need to treat ALL men with respect. they seem to have lost sight of this. You constantly nag us, make us feel inferior to you like we don't even belong on the same side of the street as you., while you've forgotten\ignored that we have the ability to crush you if we wanted. Men never treat other men with the disdain that a woman would treat a man. Men make eye contact. Smile, acknowledge each other. Women make you feel like your invisible.
Whats worse is that while their fighting over the top 20% of the men, all the rest of us have to hear that ALL men are creeps that we are using the women, fucking them and leaving them. Really??? If you would pull your heads out of your ass and realize that your all ignoring the good men and chasing after the few golden eggs. Of course their going to use you. When they have 10 different girls chasing them why are they going to be faithful.
If you women want freedom from sexual assault, rape, being used by a few of the male populace, change your own actions. You bring this on yourselves. Start making all men feel welcome and less will attempt to harm you. stop holding out for the top percentile, stop being snobby little premadonna's who will only notice a mans good deeds if he is dressed nice or if he is goodlooking. If a man, any man, regardless of look, takes the time to hold a door open, or does any nice deed that he didn't have to, make him feel good about doing it by smiling. Don't ignore him. Sheesh, you women have the worst manners. It's time to start changing them (manners) and your ways...

Bitter bitter boy-and completely wrong to boot!

You need to seek counseling buddy.  Either that or go get tested so all the PDs compare you to their rapist profiles.

Never seen a screed so driven by feelings of inadequacy (sp?).  Did some big girls take your lunch in kindergarten?  An early GF not put up with your shit?

I often silence male whiners with a chat about how the emancipation of women has really freed us all, with only the rapists losing.  Now I know what listening to a rapist might be like.

Are you the guy who's visits to a SP keep him from hurting civilian ladies?  If so then keep going.  If not- ladies beware- not all the nuts on TER are benign.

REal men can deal with real women.  Without violence.

PS:  I might like to see a boxing match with you and my SO (6', 155#)- and enjoy seeing her do to you all the things you want to to to revenge yourself on ladies.

PPS: Have you tried elevator shoes?-  I have some friends who say it really improved their outlook...

eom

Assault and threats of assult on "women" are out of bounds and you just can't do it without getting into trouble.  

People can be very rude at times and that is lothesome.  However, assault as a punishment is too big to fit the crime. Why don't you just call the offending lady a "jerk".  

FunTime,  you know better...Harry

I sure am glad you're all the way across the country.

-- Modified on 3/17/2004 1:31:46 PM

And that is why you won't catch me sexually assualting anyone. My point was; that I could see why this happens, and to difuse the "woman as a victim" crap that Sedona was pulling.



"People can be very rude at times and that is lothesome.  However, assault as a punishment is too big to fit the crime. Why don't you just call the offending lady a "jerk". "


I prefer it written as; Women are very rude all the time and that is lothesome.
Calling the lady a jerk still isn't getting the man any love. That is what this is about. However, maybe if I started pointing out how rude each individual lady has been, they might start changing their ways. I won't be holding my breath. In fact i bet the lady would complain to management about my abusive behavior in the store and have me removed, all the while ignoring her own abusive behavior. Oh well, the world we live in today caters to women and I had better just accept that.

Assualt as punishment being to severe?? I don't know. At the surface, of course it is a terrible act physically hurting someone.
Is anyone caring about the mental anguish that the men suffer after daily rejective abuse? I hear that mental abuse is just as taxing as the physical abuse. A woman may get sexually assualted once a year, once a decade, maybe even never. The man suffers the mental abuse multible times A DAY. MAybe slapping some women around will help raise awareness to their actions.

Kobe is guilty. It will make no difference if I am on the jury or not.
Kate Faber is a perfect example of women bringing shit apon themselves. You go up to a married mans room. He is married honey! kate, was perfectly willing to let a black man paw all over her. Even let him sleep with her. (where this all went wrong is that he wanted to do it in the butt. She didn't want to and wham! the animal Kobe did it anyway).
So while kate is letting Kobe sleep with her, I wonder how many single\available men\boys her age wanted to go out with her. How many she blatently ignored. How they must of felt from her snub while she is off pursuing the rich, fit and handsome married Kobe. While she is bringing the shit apon herself.
Now I have heard this young lady had multipul mens semen in her panties. This may have been from some young local guys that she slept with. I have also heard that she had slept with most of the Denver Nugget basketball team and some visiting team members also. All finacially well off. This is neither here nor there though. What is painfully obvious is that this lady brought trouble onto herself by pursuing a wealthy married man at the expense of someone her own age.
Women...

It's cool stud, I won't be acting on them. just pointing the daily rude female behavior.
Sometimes one has to provide an EXTREME view to make a point.

Edgar Allen Poe, the famous 19th century poet and short story author, frequently wrote about dark, depressing topics (i.e., the Pit and the Pendulum, the Fall of the House of Usher, the Raven, etc.). Clinical psychiatrists who have reviewed his life are now sure that Poe suffered from severe manic depression most of his adult life. Although no such diagnosis was possible in Poe's day, many of his contemporaries believed that Poe was afflicted with some sort of nervous disorder. To silence these critics, Poe wrote an essay analytically describing how he wrote his short stories, and that he was being very scientific in developing certain dark emotions in his readers. Although I found his essay very interesting (Poe was, after all, a genius), I never bought in to Poe's thesis that he was completely sane.

For some reason, I thought of this in the context of funtime69's above screed and subsequent semi-retraction.

dude-

If there's one thing everyone agrees on here its that its hard to retract a semi...

This is a joke, however poor...

'about' assault but about 'profiling'.
It was about people profiling providers by thinking that they 'must have' been abused, assaulted, etc. or drug addicts in order to become Providers.

sorry, had to add my 0.02 cents..

Mel

-- Modified on 3/17/2004 6:05:41 PM

One reason people get strange opinions about providers is that they only observe a small special subset of the provider population.  The public knows about providers who are "caught" and providers that out themselves.  The others stay under the radar.  

Women who are caught usually work close to the streets (they are easier to identify and find).  Women who out themselves are presenting a story to an audience that the audience will understand and want to read.   They are typically providers who are caught (by accident) and who are looking for one big payday.

These women can be expected to have different backgrounds and motivations than the women posting on this board.   We can make a reasonable case that most  providers (who work under the radar) have different lives and motivations than the providers that come to public attention.  

An analogy:  A team in the defense department was tasked to reduce the level of combat losses in planes.  The proposed solution was to add appropriate armor to reduce losses.  The team examined planes that had come back from combat and looked at the places where they had been shot.   After some thought, they put the additional armor in parts of the plane where they had never observed bullet holes or where they had observed very few bullet holes.  Once you understand why they did that (I'm leaving that as an exercise), you will see why Sedona's post makes sense... Harry

Every person in the world gets angry at rude and abusive behavior and would like "payback" when it happens.  However, the adult in us knows the "sticks and stones" rule.  

Rejection hurts --  but you can't command affection.  Women who give you sex or a semblance of affection because the alternative is being slapped around are being raped. That is a plain fact.  

Right now, if I were a provider, I would be frightened to see you.  You need to find a way you can accept the pain that comes from rejection and learn to live with it.

Good luck.

She only needs two friends,  Smith and Wesson!

someone else highjacks it and takes it in a different direction.  Why don't they just start their own thread!

I often silence male whiners with a chat about how the emancipation of women has really freed us all, with only the rapists losing.  Now I know what listening to a rapist might be like


Are you implying that I may be a rapist?? LOL...
I am a real man, I DON'T DO VIOLENT THINGS TO WOMAN.
With my 14 years of jui-jitsu and 6 years of Kempo I would make your beast of an ex say uncle if you ever sicked her on me.

Sully, go back to smoking your pot. Tough guy...
It never ceases to amaze me that you puds will always go after the man for pointing out the rudeness that women in society commit.
I simply was stating how these sexual assault things can happen. Not that I condone it. I was giving suggestions how women can also prevent it.
WTF is a screed??
Yeah the emancipation of women has been great hasn't it. Just go talk to all the men in Cali getting screwed in divorce court. Typical female attitude; I'll take your money, house, and your kids. I don't need you, just all the above.

Chill the fuck out Sully and see the sarcasm in my original post. As I stated to SD STud, it is extreme to make a point.

Nicole, I wasn't attempting to include you at all. I enjoy your posts and attitude. The only reason Sedona was mentioned is because of her BBQ comment. Nothing more. You hadn't even crossed my mind.

I am sorry about the attempted harm\rape. I honestly do not condone such behavior. I think we have to make exceptions to why certain acts happen when drugs are included, or being used by the attacker. Drug induced rage has nothing to do with the feelings of rejection that some of us men have to deal with.


"Also, from my standpoint the manners of BOTH men and women are atrocious when it comes to showing appreciation for something done for them. So to malign women alone for poor behavior is to put blinders on to the general lack of courtesy that is prevalent in society by and large."

This may be true. I usually only experience this from women though. Men are very forthrite to me. I will hold the door for anyone. Men usually give a thank you or a nod of appreciation 75% of the time. Women, sadly only 10-15%. It is that drastic a ratio. I feel that women today are getting to high on themselves. Does this mean you are like that? No, but it does mean that most women are spiraling out of control. This comes from not being humbled enough. One of the ways that humbles people into appreciating others is a good butt whooping.
I realize that everyone has spoke up against any kind of physical actions towards a lady. I also agree. However if one walks around never fearing a setting straight ass kicking, how will they ever rid themselves of their bratty better than thou attitudes that women exibit.
I have plenty of training so I don't fear anyone. I have found out though that there is always someone bigger and badder than me. It is because of this that I, and most men don't get out of line with each other. that is a reason that there is always an underlying level of respect between men.
Women don't have any fear of getting out of line with their mouths, actions, or acts of entitlement. So if they fear nothing they never have to show anyone respect unless they want something from that person. That is the modern day dilema that we are facing.
Instead of violence, we should take away the womens right to vote and women in the workplace. Maybe then most will change their attitudes. LOL, and pigs will fly right...

"Yet, how many times have I experienced courtesy from both sexes just via  having a pleasant attitude myself? You know, what goes around DOES seem to come around. A ready smile while at the grocery store seems to net smiles back."


I wish. One in ten smiles that I give receives a response back. If it were near even, life would be great. Maybe I'm that ugly that women just don't want to return my smile, or thank me for a gracious act.

I agree Melinda. I apologize for any discomfort you and all the ladies may have felt by my comments.

One thing that bothers me about the ladies here is that when they brag about us hobbyists being a form a dating for them. That we've replaced the everyday men who might want to date them on a civilian basis. It must be great to be PAID to date people.
Your comment the other day about your date with a civilian; "don't providers deserve love too?" Of course they do. However don't men deserve love too without having to pay for it??

'about' assault but about 'profiling'.
It was about people profiling providers by thinking that they 'must have' been abused, assaulted, etc. or drug addicts in order to become Providers.



I know Sedona and I apologize for twisting it around into an awareness of rude women, and how NOT to deal with them thread. I took offense at your BBQ comment. The same tragedy that you claim happens to a certain ratio of women at the BBQ, also happens to the same men at the BBQ in a different way of abuse. Just bringing that to light. I should have started a different thread though.

Every person in the world gets angry at rude and abusive behavior and would like "payback" when it happens.  However, the adult in us knows the "sticks and stones" rule.

I know Harry. I follow the sticks and stones routine, even though the lack of recognition hurts.

Some providers may be afraid to see me. That comes with the territory of getting the message out. I  would bet that all who have seen me have enjoyed me, my attitude, my company and certainly my money. All would be happy to see me again. The providers here who have never meet me I could understand there possible apprehension.
Hopefully all are talking to their female friends and relatives about changing their unapprciative attitudes towards men though. That is the true focus of my words, not violence towards women.

And you point was?  The point of my reply was that your position was not position- just the ramblings of someone who obviuosly have identity issues.  The martial arts history goes to my point.

And if some men these days are overpaying the butchers bills of centuries of abuse of women- hey, payback is a bitch.  I think if you tallied up all the men fucked in divorce court with all the women hurt by men you would see we are getting off easy.

Does the ability to kick ass make up for intellectual shortcomings?  Let us know.

Sheesh all you can do is focus on my statement relating to understanding of why some men sexually assualt women.
Start attempting to focus on the attitudes that a majority of our women display.

I got your points that violence is wrong.
I got your points that providers may be afraid to see me because of my comments.
I got your points about the Smith and Wesson.
I got your points on receiving counseling.
Now get my point, Women need to start improving their attitudes. They needed it pointed out to them. Was my method the best one out there? Obviously not. However focus on that message....Attitude improvement. talk with your daughters, sisters, ect... raise there awareness about how they treat others in society, talk to them about being nicer. Everyone is so focused on the possible violence comment that the point of my statement is missed. It seems that the TER members wouldn't understand the point of the message if it hit them in the face.
Instead of ragging on me, realize that I may have a very valid point. Did I go about providing my point in the best of ways. Nope. But focus on the point and not how I brought to light.
We can only change our world if we raise awareness to the problems in it.

I stand by my words.

is confused.

To many ladies and gentlemen here, the Hobby IS a form of dating - a 'Millenium Dating', if you will.
There is no 'bragging' about it by either party - it is what it is.

I remember a post by Mara about a year ago explaining that women, too, want the company of men, the intimacy with men without the 'relationship' part, committment, etc, and for them to 'go home'. So, basically, in that sense, the 'dating' makes BOTH the ladies and the gents "hobbyists" which is what is referred to as Millenium Dating. No agenda, no marriage objective..

I don't date in the Mainstream sense because NonProHobs get confused as to the objective. I, like many others, don't want an exclusive BF/SO or husband relationship. I prefer to be single, stay single and have close sexual friendships.
When I first moved to SD, I wanted to participate in singles things because I thought Singles things were for people who were single and I wanted to be around other singles, who, like me, enjoyed being single. But, "Single" events, I soon discovered, are for singles who DON'T WANT to be single and are looking for mates! OH! Well, that's not me! That's not a lot of people.

But, LOVE, is a whole different thing. And you're not 'paying for love' right now anyway, by seeing an escort. You're paying for companionship and intimacy, NOT LOVE. And seeing escorts, or being a Provider doesn't interfere with someone finding love in ANY realm. You still can, Melinda still can. Anyone still can.

Let's see if good ole' boy Arpaio would like to spend a day with three of us, contributing his donation back to the people he's busted. Maybe he'll realize how much fun it is and stop harrassing us. Sorry -- venting!

Hugs,
Ciara

Also, you seemed to have missed the one about how destructive you're attitudes are to yourself and others.

-- Modified on 3/18/2004 11:24:56 AM

are mentally abusive as well.  Just ask any lady that has been assaulted by some Neanderthal such as yourself.  Many of these women are in therapy for years and years and are never the same again.  If I was rude to you because I didn't acknowledge you in some way does it send you to the therapist because you were so mentally abused?  You're a twisted human being, funtime.  Give me a f***ing break,  men are rude on the highway all the time but I don't pull out a gun and shoot you in the head, do I?  God, get a grip, asswipe.

I don't get cut off by men everyday on the highway?  Men don't tailgate me?  Men don't leer at me when I ride or walk by?  Men don't stare at my chest when speaking to me?  Men don't hold open the door for me when I'm carrying a baby, diaper bag, purse and 2 bags of groceries?  Men don't interrupt me when I'm talking?  Cut in front of me in line?  Fart in front of me in line?  Write me emails not introducing themselves with only the "do you do greek" question?

I can list as many ways that men are also rude but I don't want to scar them for life because of their attitudes.  It's not gender specific, it's everyone.  But I guess you never do any of those things, do you?

If people are consistently rude to you, then you're doing something wrong.  Either you're obnoxious in some way that provokes them, or you're a wimp who allows aggressive individuals treat him disrespectfully without consequences.

Assuming it's the latter, then stand up for yourself and try giving a little tit-for-tat.  Meet lack of courtesy with lack of courtesy.  But force sure as hell isn't justified.

Screed: A long monotonous speech or piece of writing (from www.yourdictionary.com)

You have a good day!

And you point was?  The point of my reply was that your position was not position- just the ramblings of someone who obviuosly have identity issues.  The martial arts history goes to my point.



Really?? Identity issues huh? As usual you are an arrogant smug ass who thinks he knows everything.
My involvement in the martial arts stemmed from spending the first 12 years of my life growing up in Hunters Point San Francisco. A black dominated neighborhood. Those animals would regularly would jump myself and my Korean friend. The martial arts helped as a form of defense and helped give the discipline needed to stay mentally strong in the face of daily abuse. I choose to continue my studies as a form of constructive growing after moving out of that hell hole. I branched into the Jui-Jutsu arts after wrestling in high school.



"And if some men these days are overpaying the butchers bills of centuries of abuse of women- hey, payback is a bitch.  I think if you tallied up all the men fucked in divorce court with all the women hurt by men you would see we are getting off easy.



So that justifies it? Did I do any of this so called abuse? Then why should I be punished for the actions of another. The fact that you support this type of treatment shows how mentally weak you are. Your need for acceptance from the opposite sex, that you will go to such lengths to  defend there actions.


Does the ability to kick ass make up for intellectual shortcomings?  Let us know.

You tell me. I assume you have some ability to defend yourself. The saying goes; don't argue with a fool because others may have a hard time differentiating who is the fool. You seem to be stating that I am a fool, but you still want to argue and belittle me. That shows your intellectual shortcomings...So I ask you, does the ability to act like a feeble wimp make up for your intellectual shortcomings??

"While I realize your initial point was to make a point and to some degree, exagerated...it is by and large a projection of your own psyche and indicates a bitter individual who needs a sense of balance restored in his evaluation of life."



Yes Nicole, I do need some balance. The balance that states you receive what you put out. I was raised to always hold the door for a lady. No exceptions. I was also told that the lady should always return a gesture of gratitude. No exceptions. I'm doing my part, I lso recognize who isn't holding up there end of the bargain.
So because I may get frustrated with the lack of courtesy and appreciation shown i have an inbalance? I am wrong for feeling this way? That I am the minority and everyone else is right? Hmmp maybe...
I am not a bitter individual. I just get bitter about some actions. Just like everyone does.
By no means am I attempting to backpeddle or retract my initial post. I may have written some thoughts, but I havn't ever acted on them, nor do I want to. It was just a point to get off of the women as victims shit. Simply that they bring on a lot of the crap they may receive. Yes it is an unpopular take, however it is truthful.

Daydreams, I have read both your posts...All I can say is that you have issues. Thank god that YOU are on the other side of the country.
Nutcase....

Good morning Sedona. I didn't actually get to read this post until 3/18, but got so pissed at the mysoginistic rantings of "funtime69" [who, from his reviews seems to be from the San Diego area] that I exited the site and just went downstairs and read before retiring. Anyway, your concerns brought to mind the verse from Jacque Brel's "If We Only Had Love" :
          If we only have love
          We can reach those in pain
          We can heal all our wounds
          We can use our own names
I think our culture needs all the stereotypes because we are so uptight about sex and sexuality. Also, in the case of the game, we need to blame or put the burden on the women because the "nice" women can't deal with what they perceive as compition and men do not want to take responsibility for their own actions. Thus we have the "temptress/seductress" and the "fridgid" spouse to blame. I guess this post ties in to your earlier one suggesting that you make your case in some form of "enlighten the public" kind of way. It must sometimes be painful to you to know that you are such a good person in spite of the sterotyping and not really be able to confront the ignorance that prejudges you. On another, but related note, for a lond timeI too had  bought into the sterotype so I could'nt avoid feelings of guilt when I gamed. In fact I seldom participated until someone finally set me straight [so to speak]. I still think that there are circumstances that can push a woman into the game when she might not, under different circumstances, do so, but that doesn't change the fact that the life can be a valid choice. I think I have run out of space, so will end. Peace.