Just want to know if any provider
out there will reject a Muslim
client due to patriotism.

I would think that if a provider rejected a client just because he was a muslim, that would be a sign of stupidity, not patriotism. Just because a guy is a Muslim, doesnt make him a woman hating 12'th century fanatic.

Anyway, how's she supposed to know he is a muslim in any case? Is he going to ask her to lie with her head pointing toward Mecca? Unless he starts using his time to read the Koran to her, I dont see where it is a factor. I also dont get the point of your question, at least I hope I dont.

So tell me...how does a person know if another is a "Muslim" without asking?

I have found that I have periodically needed to remind a few people (fortunately a small number) that Islam is a RELIGON, not a RACE.

Now, on the admitted assumption that a person’s RELIGON doesn't come up in the screening for a provider (lol...I think that assumption is safe), I will make a less safe assumption that what this poster REALLY meant was "of Arabic decedent" versus "Muslim"

Which leads to a second question...if you don't ask, how would you know a persons citizenship? Or...in lieu of confirming a clients citizenship should we just assume that what we are REALLY talking about is racism.…that what is being asked is if any providers practice racism in the name of patriotism.

Let’s hope not.

Gentle reminder people...white males aren't the ONLY American Citizens. And one of the things that makes us special as Americans, one of the things that Muslim extremist HATE about us, is that we are a DIVERSE AND TOLERANT SOCIETY.

I am going to assume the original poster was just asking, and not advocating....

I don't know if this is off topic or not, but what "my life as me" is right on the money here.

All muslims are not arab.  There are 200 million muslims in Indonesia and they are not arabs.  Also, it seems to be little known than all arabs are not muslims.  A good portion of them are actually orthodox christians.

So if you see an arab it doesn't necessarily mean he/she's a muslim and if you see a muslim it doesn't necessarily mean he'she is an arab.

I dunno!  It gets too confusing for me.

Salaaam, devout Muslim...... drug addicted, alcoholic, woman beating pimp...... but he don't eat no pork....cuz pork baaad for you."  Hey, I just report them.

i have to admit I have turned away many arab and pakistani men in this business...had nothing to do persay with their race but there attitudes and the very innapropriate things that they said. I also have accepted many clients of arabic descent and alot of indian clients of various religions...I seem to appeal to them physically and when I was working in clubs dancing they were attracted to me like flies. Problem is many of them really have a disturbing view about women, Some of them dont. When I danced in Guam the indonesian men were not good customers at all but I really felt that that was just a cultural problem and not anything at all to do with their faith...actually I don't even know which ones were muslim and which weren't. I do have a huge problem with the way that countries that govern themselves by muslim law treat their women. Some of the worst atrocities towards women and children occur in these countries. I have even had avery good girlfriend from kuwait who ran for her life after her sister was killed by her uncle for being raped. He poisoned her and Manal was very afraid of the same fait happening to her because she refused the man her brother had set her up to marry in the united states. She was payment for half of a gas station in michigan and was forced to be his sexual companion and basic all around slave. When he started beating her she tried to leave and her brother put her on a plan to kuwait the very next day. She lied and forged documents from her father to get out of the country and came back and married a nice navy guy and became a stripper. We would work vegas and san diego together and arabic customers where a substantial part of our business. they had no idea she was kuwaiti and the one time she told a guy she was he slapped her and was kicked out of the crazy horse too in vegas for it. The things they would say about us in arabic while they were sitting right in front of us were very disturbing and if Manal got up and gave me the look we would just leave.
 On the other hand my ex of five years is lebanese and I loved him very much. He is catholic though and was raised in the US so his views about women are fairly modern, (Except for the very nice old fashioned view that you take care of your women as a matter of pride...I liked that alot.) Also some arabic christians are just as bad in their views of women espeically those from jordan. Honor killings are common amongst both religions there. The point I guess I am trying to make is that if I can tell that a man is of middle eastern descent then I do scrutinize him more thouroughly. I have had sooo many e-mails from them that were very out of line and a ton of bad experiences when I worked for services. I even refused to see them in general if they weren't preapproved regulars because they rarely worked out and often had several men in their room wanting to take a turn or some other BS like that. What it seems to come down too is how westernized they have become and how their mother raised them. Many persians espeically those that were raised in the UK are really cute and have great mannners.
Any way that is just my take on the subject.
P.S. I do love their food all the time

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

This is a rather intense and touchy subject.  The views expressed on this thread may have some merit.  Nevertheless, I would encourage you to be open-minded, and not judge a book by its cover.  

Just because someone comes from one part of the world, and has certain religious belief that does not necessary make him a bad person or someone who has NO respect for women.  The way an individual was brought up, core values, etc. helps define who the individual is.  

By the way, the Australians are notorious for mistreating their women.  To be candid, even some American abuse women ... I think I have made my point.

Also, people seem to skirt around the issue about being Persian.  Guess, what?  Persia was renamed to Iran.  The original inhibitors of Persia, were non-Muslims.  They were infact Zoroastrians.  They were forced out of Persia, and made their way to India, where they are called Parsi's.  

Oh, by the way -- Freddie Mercury, the lead singer for the famous rock band, Queen, was a Parsi.



-- Modified on 6/12/2002 3:32:16 PM

But Freddie is the bitch.  He would never hit a woman. lol
I am refer to a broad Muslim faith where 100% pf them hate Americans, want to kill us Americans, and want to revert our way of life but a few hundred years where THEIR glory of oppression and cruety to female is consider the norm.

Unless otherwise proven to me, after 911, the only Muslim to me
is either a dead one or a comatosed one.  I will not trade another American life for 1,000 no 10,000 Muslim life.  
No civiliain life and no military life.   Just my 2 cents.

Actually, what you are alluding to is a pretty NARROW Muslim faith, but I suspect trying to explain that to you would be a wasted effort....

The great country we live in was CREATED in the pursuit of religious freedom (I know it been a long time since grade school, but stick with me here...). The Pilgrims came to this land because they wanted the freedom to practice a faith that was NOT mainstream back in jolly old England.

Diversity and Religious Tolerance are the very principles on which this nation was founded. Muslim extremist HATE THIS...this is why they hate us.

For us to practice the same form of hate in return is to only give them the victory they seek.

While we are on this topic...something occurred to me the other day, in regards to "heroes". I know a wee bit about heroes...you see, not only do I live in New York City, not only do I live in Manhattan, but I live just two blocks from the WTC. I was displaced from my home for more than a month after 9/11 - that is how close to Ground Zero I live. I lost a couple of acquaintances on that day...not close friends, I admit, but people I knew from my neighborhood / building.

Some of our heroes are of course obvious.

Some however are not so obvious. I was just thinking about a new set of heroes the other day, when I first saw this thread.

I was thinking about the men and women of Arabic descent who work for our intelligence community. Those people who are CRITICAL to the welfare and safety of our nation now, because they speak the language and know the culture of those who seek to destroy us.

I was thinking how these people do their jobs, in secret, without public praise more than likely. They are not fire fighters, or soldiers. They are desk jockeys, geeks, nerds, average guys and gals. But they do a critical...CRITICAL job right now. Perhaps the most important job in the United States at this moment.

And then, I thought how when they leave their office (where I am sure they are appreciated), they live in a different world. A world where people look at them funny...question their love of this country. A world where they fear for the safety of their wives and children...where going to school or the supermarket is no longer just a routine thing, because you never know when some asshole ignorant redneck will assault you verbally, or worse. A world where they can't practice their faith without fear...in a country found on the principles of religious diversity.

And how do these people respond? They get up in the morning, and go back to work, defending this country they live in and love, without praise or high pay. They do it because they are AMERICANS, just like me, just like most of us on this board.

This, in my humble opinion, makes them REAL HEROES…

I again say...being an AMERICAN does not by definition make you WHITE, MALE, or CHRISTIAN.

Try to remember that people....

You say...being an AMERICAN does not by definition make you WHITE, MALE, or CHRISTIAN.

I say...being an AMERICAN means you pay taxes to support you government, you honor your fellow citizens, you cherish the life of young ones, you cherish the way of life that your forefathers fought for, and you DAMN well believe in deporting or imprisoning or even killing any one whose "faith" guides them to take a whole building full of Americans and terminate them in an instance.

I agree with your general points but your history lesson is not quite complete.  Throughout western history religous groups have not been very tolerant of each other.  People like the Pilgrims and Puritans did come to this country seeking religous freedom.  Once here they were not very tolerant of people with different religous beliefs. Actually it was a pretty good example of George Orwell's "Animal Farm".  What has strongly established religous freedom in this country is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  This established a separation of church and state with the state making the laws.  This concept is not followed everywhere in the world.  This concept is the reason the Mormans were forced to outlaw the practice of having multiple wives.  The practice conflicted with state laws regarding bigamy.

If it's true, then how come there hasn't been
even ONE single Muslim group in the USA that
are codemning the terrorism in 9/11.
NOT EVEN ONE MUSLIM !!!!!
NOT EVEN ONE "PATRIOTIC" "USA-CITIZEN" "LAW-ABIDING" MUSLIM ??
HMMMMM.......??????

Neither of course, but I think that was probably more rooted in ignorance and fear than discrimination (at least racial discrimination). Most of the "witches" were the friends, peers, and neighbors of the pilgrims. They looked like the mainstream folks, but sometimes a weird coniencedence, or some natural affliction (like MS), would mark them as "different". I am not excusing it, it was stupid, but I don't think it is quite the same as when today people see someone who dresses different and looks different than they and labels them without any other edvindence.

The point I am trying to make is that those of us who are Americans are Americans. We come in all shapes, sizes, races and religons. None of these things defines how muh you love your country, or how patriotic you are. When we start to believe that to be "American", a person has to look like and act like the man in the mirror, how much further will be be from Nazi Germany?

Nazi Germany invaded other countries.
I don't think we're at that yet or will ever.

What planet do you live on?? DOZENS of famous Muslims came out.....

Do you watch the news?  

Ever heard of Muhummad Ali?

Did you read my posts regarding those Muslim in the intelligence community who are fighting the war on terrorism every day (versus just Arab bashing on message boards?)?

One single patrotic Muslim? Do you know if I am a Muslim or not??? Feel free to assume that since I live right down the street *I* have been condeming terroism from Day Two. Am I less patrotic than you because I refuse to Arab bash?

I've got $1000 that says *I* have a lot more reason to be angry about this than you do...9/11 wasn't just something i watched on TV...it was something I LIVED. Yet I know that hating a broad group of people just because a few in there subset hate you is of no value whatsoever (else I wouldn't even speak to white people, given the existance of the Klu Klux Klan).

Clearly you are just angry (which is justified), irrational (which is not) and narrow minded, if not racist. Logic is wasted here....

They didn't START by invading other countries...they STARTED ethic cleansing...

The REAL failure in history wasn't not fighting the Nazi's...that was done...maybe Americans and Brits (and otehrs of course) died setting things right (though you could debate why we waited so long).

No, the REAL FAILURE...the reason why Hitler got as far as he did, and millions died was because right minded Germans looked the other way when he spewed hate...first out of ignorance, then out of cowardance, then out of fear.

It started as "we are superior to others". From there it was an easy transition to "some are inferior to others". After that point, deciding to gas the inferior ones in the name of what was best for the future of Germany was a no brainer, right?

No, we aren't there yet, and I believe we won't get there. Too many Americans are willing to speak out when appropriate...I look at the number of people who came out to speak against the hate and violence directed toward Arab Americans right after 9/11.

Still, I wonder. I note how no one hear has supported me. I read how a prominent and influentual Baptist Pastor...a man of God, a man that is suppose to teach love...is bashing Muslim at a national conference, and felt completely comfortable doing so.

If the terrorist of 9/11 had been Black, would we now be attacking African Americans in the streets? What if they had been Jewish?

Why are Arab Americans fair game after 20 NON Americans commit this horrendous act, but "we" were all able to properly direct our rage and anger after what Tim McVeigh did? I don't recall any witch hunts for white males...

What about Ted Kaczynski?

What about Luke J. Helder?

Why is it that when "they" do something, we should go after "them", but when the perpitrator is one of "us", then terrorism suddenly has a specific name and face, and thus there is no need to condemn the man in the mirror?

Nevermind.....I know where this is going...

-- Modified on 6/16/2002 4:00:24 AM

Yup, like what the Muslim did to Afganistan.

"Yup, like what the Muslim did to Afganistan."

No...like the TALIBAN did in Afganistan. Who are Muslim, no question, but who neither A) represent the majority of Muslims in Afganistan or B) Practice a faith that is in line with that practice by most Muslims worldwide.

We know some percentage of Catholic priest have molested children. Yet, even though we joke about it here, no one in there right minds think that all, or even the majority, of Catholic priest are child molesters.

Yet, a VASTLY LARGER percentage of them are versus Muslims who are terrorist. Lets say...a few dozen Catholic priest amongst the thousands of men in the cloth are child molesters. That is still a GROSSLY larger percentage than the few thousand (estimated...at the MOST) Muslim extremeist / terrorist in the world versus the 1 billion+ Muslims world wide.

I give up...apparently no one around here actually keeps up with current affairs or cares about the TRUTH versus hate mongering...