IT'S ALL ABOUT RESPECT!!! I read so many Posts about a Provider not getting back to a Hobbyist, or how terrible she was because she flaked or not acknowledge your call when an appt. was made. WELL...
for us as Providers we are faced with another dilemma and thats with a gentleman making an appt. with no difinite time as to his arrival, i was told it would be after a meeting at 3ish probably meeting up by 4ish.and that he would call when in route.  Prior to this,Emails were exchanged, a phone call of acknowledgement was made and the conversation ended with an appt. being made with a promise of calling when his appt. in a near by town was over and to tell me when he would be arriving! We were both excited about our meeting as well.  Did the phone call come? Nope! Did i arrange to put aside this hour to be with this gentleman? Yep!  is this acceptable behavior on the part of this Hobbyist? Nope!
It's selfish and self serving to be honest with you all. Not only was my time put on hold, but it's lost money for me because it could have been taken up by someone who truly wanted to spend time with me, but couldn't because it was put aside for this man.
I'm not going to piss and moan about this because it's one of the hazards of doing what we do as Providers, But I want all of the Hobbyists out there to take a minute No.. more like 30 secs to call us and cancel so our day isn't wasted because of a no show on your part, It's the considerate thing to do, and the right thing to do as well. When it happens to a Hobbyist theres a backlash of how terrible it is or how wrong the Provider was, but when it happens to a us as Providers we see posts like "it's part of the job"  or "quit your whining!"
For all the Hobbyists out there who do this to Providers and think it's not a big thing, WAKE UP, BECAUSE IT IS!!! it's not a nice thing to do, and your chances for another appt. with a well reviewed Provider you might like might be more difficult to attain the next time around, one Provider tells another Provider and she tells 10 more and so on...it's done with business all the time, and YES, gentlemen, it's done with us too. Wise Up!
Have a wonderful night,
Jay

It's one of the worst aspects of this biz. It's disrespectful on both gender's parts. Usually it's a "matter of substance" (Pun intended).

-- Modified on 11/16/2008 9:39:16 AM

Jayla it sounds like you have a valid complaint yes, it only take a hobbyist 30 or so seconds to place a call to let us know that he is running behind or wont be able to make it.
However you state, "I was told it would be after a meeting at 3ish probably meeting up by 4ish.and that he would call when in route".  I personally would be hesitant about taking a meeting with such a broad start time.  That pretty much left your schedule wide open to this guy.  Where 15mins could easily become a 1/2 hour, then an hour,  and then simply no show.  Unfortunately your extreme flexibility may have given him the perception that no showing would not be a big deal or that your time is not as valuable as someone who would lock him into an exact meeting time.

Being someone who has posted about providers being a no show (two the same week!!), I do feel your pain. I made a promise when I started being a hobbiest that if I ever had to cancle I would get the lady her money for her lost time. I always call and have only had to cancle once due to my mother falling and me being called to the emergency room. When I cancled I told the lady I would get her money to her that week. She was so sweet and understanding and told me just to give her a tip next time (which I did by doubling her fee). I've never been late and always call as suppose to. You do have my upmost apoligy for all the pigs that will, have done this to you and any other lady. It's bad apples like this guy that give us hobbiest a bad name.

Hey Jayla.....your right!....What's so damn hard about picking up the phone,to let you know they have to cancel!...GEEZ!

then why the red face and the flogging? Why the lecture? I fully understand your point of view. But, why the disrespect - to your potential client base no less. You are turning off tens or even hundreds of potential clients on TER.

A much better approach would have been to post a message *thanking* the hobbyists who do the right thing. Then describe your situation of being NC/NSd and your very rightful disappointment if not anger, the fact that this takes away your income, your livelihood. And in that context a reminder to have the courtesy to let you know if one of us had to break a date. Of course, you are preaching to the choir here.

Those of us who do the right thing already know this. And speaking as one who has never nc/ns'd a lady (though it has been done to me many many times) I find a post like this to be offensive. Not that I disagree with the content of the post - it's the tone and the approach that are annoying.

When I see a post like this, I mark the lady off of my possibles list. Permanently. I bet I'm not alone.

So, "Wise Up!" may work in both directions.

Have a wonderful night

Gregory

And if marking a Lady off your list because she states her opinion and maybe ruffles a few hobbyists feelings because she states the truth and posts what someone does is wrong then ...Oh Well!!  i would think one would scratch a girl off their "to-do" list for alot more important things wouldn't you think? Being mindful of poor behavior and pointing out that hobbyists don't walk on water like many feel they do does sting i guess, and the red face does reflect an opinion now doesn't it!...but then again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one,   me as well as you Gregory now don't we!

"I'm not going to piss and moan about this because it's one of the hazards of doing what we do as Providers, But I want all of the Hobbyists out there to take a minute No.. more like 30 secs to call us and cancel so our day isn't wasted because of a no show on your part, It's the considerate thing to do, and the right thing to do as well. When it happens to a Hobbyist theres a backlash of how terrible it is or how wrong the Provider was, but when it happens to a us as Providers we see posts like "it's part of the job"  or "quit your whining!"

Your way of stating your case was indeed somewhat insulting as it conveyed your lecture on "ALL of the hobbyists out there" as shown in the quote I provided. Gregory took it a bit harder than myself, but like him, I have NEVER NCNS any provider. I have had it happen to me several times over the years. Since I always do incall appts only...one time it cost me 5 hours of my life as well as travelling expenses. We all have our gripes believe me. Yours is legitimate, but you stated it rather poorly. Gregory is also right about red flags causing providers to lose potential customers. That isn't one of the reasons I would not see a lady, but some of mine are probably what you would deem unimportant as well. With the advent of private boards for providers and hobbyists, the word spreads quickly about a bad one in either category these days. Sometimes it's deserved and other times it isn't.

It does pay to be respectful and tactful on the public boards, whether you are a provider or hobbyist. JMHO

I'm respectfull every time i post, and i never call anyone out or name names for poor behavior, and if this doesn't apply to you or your actions with providers then it's a good thing for both parties and you deserve one "atta boy", but what i said stands and i posted the way i felt about the situation, and i will continue to speak my mind in a respectfull way wether it meets your standards or not.
thank you for your thoughts though.
Jay

it seems like i stepped on a few hobbyists toes with my post, and all i can say to that is "oh well and if the shoe fits.."  you know the rest!
and what i find funny is that the ones who have an issue with what i've said or how i said it claim they don't do this to Providers and thats a very good thing and something they should be proud of, but my comments weren't for them, and the way i voiced my concern on this matter seemed to offend them. I will continue to voice my opinion in my own way and with respect as not to name names but to try to bring some thought about contacting Providers if your not able to make an appt.
Thanks for your thoughts Duck..

Just for the record...I would never want to miss an appt with you Jay. That guy really missed out bigtime! I just had to say it

Why is she a (the ) bad one because she publicly let  men know they behave badly? If you know it dose not apply to you then why o why be put off at all. That makes no sense. And what kind of bizz is she losing?? The kind of man that can’t see beyond himself… That’s a lose???  I’m sorry guys I think you blew  this one way out of context and proportion. Just a thought.
Cheers Livie.

and here more so than anywhere else on the 'net.

I am truly amazed that you cannot see the how it would have been better to make your point without the finger wagging, over the top, shrill style.

Most businesses treat their customers with respect. It is my experience that most providers treat their customers with respect. I receive PM s from ladies I know *apologizing* on the behalf of the provider community every time this kind of post comes up and I weigh in on it.

Your point is clearly understood here.

The attitude conveyed is not appreciated by many who are probably smarter than I, who just mutter under their breath and move to the next post.

and I expect more class from any lady with whom I choose to spend my time.

-- Modified on 11/16/2008 5:54:48 AM

that this is the second time in recent memory that an angry, offensive post has been made, lecturing the entire hobby community, for an incident that sprang from a poor business decision on the part of a provider. If the lady had someone who said that he'd be there at 3pm sharp and chose this other gent, well..... OTOH if there *was* no one else who asked for this time frame, then she did not lose anything....  bottom line - I detest NC/NS in either direction. A gentleman does not do this, and neither does a lady worth my time. Thank you for weighing in....

I did not "take it hard" because it does not apply to me. I simply *detest* such behavior on this board. I conduct myself as a gentleman and I expect any lady that I will spend time with to conduct herself as a lady.

Bottom line - there are better ways to make your point, aren't there?

I had never broken a date without 24 hours notice until recently.
On this latest occasion, I made the first call to a Fav Lady.  Due to circumstances the only available time left just enough time to drive there...  it was raining lightly.  Enroute, the skys opened...  I tried to keep driving (really wanted to see her) even though highway speeds were unsafe.  The deluge worstened & traffic came to a complete stop.  I called & explained the situation.  There was no room in her schedule (which I knew from the initial call).  We agreed to call it off...  
I found another time later that same week & everything went great.

I have heard of ladies & gents...  pulled over by cops (speeding).  Traffic accidents.  Illness.  These are legit reasons to break an appointment.  Sometimes on can not give notice.  The person who was unable to fulfill the meeting should contact at the first opportunity.  

Yes, R E S P E C T.
skb

It's a little disheartening to read so many posts having to point out and stress the importance of respect. If an appointment has been made and either party is unable to follow through, a simple phone call or email explaining the situation will do. Naturally, last minute cancellations are frowned upon...however, sometimes inevitable. Unfortunately, we're probably just preaching to the choir here. I would venture to say that most of the NCNS individuals doesn't even participate or read these boards.

A couple of things-
1. If a gentleman is wanting to schedule an appointment, it needs to be for a specific time. Otherwise, you're missing other possible opportunities by holding your time open for him. I'm very honest with my clients. If they tell me, "I'm going to be in a dinner meeting and I 'think' it should be over around 10pm...can I see you at 10:30?" I politely advise them that due to the uncertainty, I can't hold the time for them. However, feel free to call me when the dinner is over and if I'm available great.

2. Length of appointment. I always ask the gentleman, how long would you like to schedule our date? Some will say, "well, I was thinking how about 2-3 hrs. Okay, now which is it? 2 or 3 hrs? Again, I need specifics....we can't be expected to keep our schedule open-ended.

3. Stress the importance of communication, this goes for both providers and hobbyist. Keep an open line for communication, either via phone or email. Let them know, if anything should come up you 'expect' to be notified immediately of the changes...so that alternate plans can be made. Let's face it, we're riding this roller coaster called life and things do come up. Just be courteous enough to inform the other party. Really it's simple.

4. Tolerancy for NCNS. Everyone has their own opinion and standards. Mine is quite basic, one strike and you're OUT. This isn't baseball, with 3 opportunities to strike out...this is Paris' game and we play by my rules. Now, if by chance I had a NCNS and he begs me for a second chance...I might and I do mean might...give him a second chance, with the understanding that a deposit is due upfront.

With all of that being said, thank you to all of you that are naturally courteous and respectful of our time. I think I can speak for all of us, we do appreciate you!

Happy and Safe hobbying to ALL!
Paris

This lady is using a more strident tone that she might otherwise because she is venting her frustration. Like Torrid a few weeks ago, this just happened to her and she is totally frustrated. If you view the body of her posts, you will not find anything more than a fair expression of opinion.


            We currently have the same type of post on the Vegas Board from a guy. NC/NS and he posted an angry red face complaining about it. So while in calmer moments a Lady might post “Gentlemen, please be more reliable” or a Gentleman might post “Ladies please remember to call if you can’t make it,” I do not think that occasional venting like this suggests any type of character flaw.

        So while both Jayla and Torrid got their share of "Young lady we don't appreciate your tone" posts, I do not think it is reasonable to presume anything other than that they are annoyed and rightfully so.

venting is fine;  choosing when, where and how one vents is important.

I sympathize with the lady about nc/ns. I've had that done to me as well.

However, this board is a community - one which has consistently advocated the proper treatment and respect of providers, including educating and advocating against nc/ns.  

"Venting" here is like crapping in your own nest.

at the TER community is not an intelligent thing to do.

Respect is two way - I have and always will treat providers with the ultimate in respect. It is my nature to do so as one who was raised to be a gentleman.

However, demands for respect on the part of providers who take the offensive, finger wagging tone in this OP have the potential of lowering the mutual respect on which the hobby thrives.

This community has done a lot in the lifestyle and on these boards to promote understanding and respect, here and on the newbie board as well.

Why should we bother anymore when we are attacked like this?

When some idiot posts something derogatory about a provider, he usually gets shouted down by hobbyists in this community.

However, when a provider goes on a tirade here, I do not see other providers likewise showing disapproval for disrespectful behavior.  That disheartens me; I conclude that my efforts at encouraging respect are wasted, because they are not reciprocated. Respect is a two way street.

Are your above comments directed to me or the OP? I believe my comments were fair and unbiased for both provider and hobbyist.

In my world, disrespect doesn't exit. If it starts to rear its evil head, I exit stage right.

Gregory, somtimes you have to take comments with a grain of salt. Don't get yourself worked up over it, it's not worth it. You know that you're a gentleman and obviously the providers that see you agree. Otherwise, they wouldn't continue accompanying you.

You must not have read my last post to Jay, as it explains how I personally feel about her...which is all very positive! I made a mistake in my post(sorry) for not putting quotation marks around the word "bad". I did not mean to convey that Jay is bad at all, as I would love to see her myself. What I meant to convey is that Gregory is correct when he mentioned that guys take posts into account when they decide whom to visit. Jay's only mistake, and I believe it was a mistake, was being TOO inclusive with her post. She included all hobbyists and not just the guilty ones. That will get a guy's dander up just like it will a girl's. You prove my point by pointing to my error in my post("bad"), which was a mistake by the way.  

Thanks Livie for giving me an opportunity to see and right my wrong, and I apologize to Jay.

and thank you for weighing in with a balanced viewpoint.

The problem with these boards is that sometimes a comment is inadvertently indented under the wrong comment, or that continuing a line of conversation under a comment can be taken as a response aimed at the post above. I did mean to piggyback on your input about respect being a two way street but was not aiming the comments at you at all.

I will take your advice - from now on I will not respond constructively when either a provider trashes hobbyists, or vice versa.

Respect is a 2 way street and needs to be treated as such. I demand respect not only from my dates, but in my private life as well....family, friends, my kids, cashier at the supermarket etc. I guess for ones like you and I, we were raised in that manner. So, respect comes naturally.

How I handle disrespectful individuals varies on the circumstances. If it's a date---it ends abruptly and I'm outa there! LOL Now on the other hand, if it's family, friends or kids...I try to reason things out. The cashier....well, I just tell them to smile...hey it's not that bad.

I suppose if I felt strongly about a particular subject on the board, I'd be more apt to chime in with opinions. However, as I have told my children many times...."Choose your battles wisely", you can't war against everything!

Now breathe deeply, count to 10 and say I'm so glad to be alive!

-- Modified on 11/16/2008 11:23:51 AM

Indeed. That has been at times a close thing for me.

I am glad to be alive and to be seeing two wonderful ladies this week.

All the best

Gregory

against nc/ns or general lack of respect for a lady's time then the OP was.

This point *can* be made without going out of one's way to be offensive and rude.

I would have suggested that the newbie board was a better place for this.

Thank you

Gregory

Well thank you for that because it did look like you were putting Jay  in the wrong. And I think Gregory is making a mountain out of a moll hill Because although she addressed it to all with a red face clearly she was speaking to the jack ass that stood her up and for all to hear as to call him to the carpet for all to witness. I don’t thing it’s such a bad thing when you consider that some guys get carried away with them selfs ,and this is a way of bringing him back down to earth. She did not name him she did not threaten him with blk listing. She let him know under no uncertain terms his behavior is unacceptable. As far as being a lady well I’m sorry(truly) for to long WOMAN had taken on the role of being a lady only to be walked on Gregory sad but true man todayLagre #) do not see things the way you do. Therefore we absolutely must stand  up for our self. I know really Sad …but true. So please do not dis count a Woman for having self respct as not being lady like.

"Being mindful of poor behavior and pointing out that hobbyists don't walk on water like many feel they do does sting i guess"

One can say the same about providers, I suppose....

and for the others that let their imagination get away from them why don't you read what both of these people had to say and maybe you will finally get the point as well!
Instead of reading my post and just saying to yourself " at least I call and cancel my appt. And this doesn't apply to me" and trying to understand the frustration  of time being wasted instead of going on a soap box on how I should post my thoughts maybe just maybe you would get my point .  There was not one sentence in my orginal post that was nasty or disrespectful like  others do every day on here.  And to be honest with all of you reading and commenting on what I've said will make you think twice hopefully next time you decide to flake on a appt.
I've said my piece and as far as this post is concerned let's all stop beating a dead horse!

spare us your self righteous holier then thou attitude greg. You post more then me and Alot of others here and there're  not all stellar either. Do you think your opinion is right and others are
are wrong or inappropiate because of the way they expressed their feelings?  It's was MY take on things and I expressed them the way I chose too. I guess a women that speaks her mind isn't on your To-Do list huh?  LOL.  
Take a look back at all your self absorbed comments greg. And who is being condesending ??  Please!
It's a new day move on for Christ sake!  
Loose hobbyists??  Hardly babe!
You have a wonderful day and a better tomorrow greg
Jay

to TER. You are all over the boards weighing in and giving good advice and your many posts are fun to read as well. You have contributed a lot here, and it is appreciated.

I do not disagree with your post in substance at all.

I was disappointed with the presentation. All the more because of how active you are on the newbie board. It is my opinion that setting a tone of mutual respect when communicating on these issues is more effective and is in the interest of the hobby / provider community.

However, it is certainly your right to communicate as you see fit.

The person who posted below you:

Please Read Hobbyist! FOR EVERYONE IN EVERY STATE!

made the same point a lot less abrasively.

There is an old saying, which is apropos

You can catch more flies with honey
than you can with vinegar

Personally, I wish you all the best

Gregory







-- Modified on 11/16/2008 3:54:39 PM

we should treat others as we would want to be treated.  Whatever happens between two consenting ADULTS ....  

Thanks Jay.

which, by definition, goes both ways.

-- Modified on 11/16/2008 8:21:16 PM

XXOO
Jay