In the diatribe a few posts below, a benighted knuckledragger posited that the TER boards should be about "hooker criticism" and that TER was a "hooker review site".....

Who says?

Yes, there are reviews of providers here, and that is the function of the REVIEW portion of TER. And the review portion of the site is the guts of this place. Without it, most of the hobbyists would not be here.

However - is that all there is to TER?

who gets to say that the discussion boards are to be about "hooker reviews" or "hooker criticism"?

Is the Provider Only board a hooker review board?
Is Newbie?
P&R?
Legal Corner?
The Erotic Highway?

Of course not.

I was under the impression that TER embraced a whole lot more than just "hooker criticism" - that it was a place for hobbyists and providers to get to know one another, exchange ideas and interests, learn about how to hobby / provide safely, exchange ideas to make our sport better and safer, flirt with each other (boy girl, please),

and MOST OF ALL

have a place to relate to and have fellowship with others who share our sport.

I believe that a wide range of expression and opinion should take place here.

Disagreement? certainly.

HOWEVER

behavior on these boards that diminish the quality of interaction for the majority is not in TER's interest nor in the interst of most of us who enjoy the boards.

Disagree? TER apparently agrees with this point of view, witness the last few revisions to the discussion board policies....

I agree with DC, that a wide range of convo should happen here. And that if the knuckledraggers are feeling left out, they should participate and present their point of view on the boards instead of whining like schoolchildren because others are more articulate or because other points of view are more popular.

So, boys, bring it on.

HOWEVER - I do ask that DC follow the message board policies:

----- Personal attacks such as denigration of another person’s character or value have no place in such discussions

and

-----*****Posting rude and mean comments while hiding under an ALIAS, will be reported to the moderator and the post will be modified to EXPOSE your USERNAME. Aliases are not to be abused for such purposes*****

Otherwise, the knuckledraggesr will accomplish nothing more than driving off many of the intelligent conbributors and posters who contribute 90% of the content on these boards, leaving them a wasteland, unappealing to the majority of hobbyists and providers who do not desire to put up with a steady stream of penny ante juvenile nonsense.

I have seen this happen on other such sites. They now are lucky to see ten total posts in a DAY. I'm sure that result would bore poor DC more than the lack of sparks flying '



-- Modified on 5/2/2009 5:06:21 PM

and this is what makes the general board stand out among any other board these days. Those who haven't stopped by eventually will and posts like this will keep them coming back.

Each and ever member here who takes part should be allowed to say something, be involved and to feel they belong.

Now all I can say is it would take me a week to do spell check on such a long post but the more I post the less I need my dictionary.

Great post GoodTimingMan

Kisses Haley

That can be criticism, if warrented.  Hopefully, the cream will rise to the top & we'll discover the gems that we enjoy so much.

Providers are persons too and have feelings.  The emotionally loaded phrase "Hooker" is disrespectful.  Even if it is pay-for-play, a provider has the right to choose who she offers her services to.  If one insists on being  disrespectful, you can not expect superior service.  

I don't treat women that way...  not even my EX who deserved it.  Treat others as you would want to be treated.  If someone does not treat me well, then I know to avoid them in the future.
skb

The place for critiques is reviews.  If someone had a bad experience, or a really good one, maybe say something on their local board.

Unlike some others, apparently, I enjoy having the ladies join in the discussion and banter.  The more, the better...

If I wanted to read just critiques and posts from hobbyists, there are other boards to frequent.  While these sometimes provide valuable info, it tends to be too situated on CL and the like, and be 90% BS one liners between hobbyists.  Not my favorite place to hang out!

extend it to anyone else unless they have agreed to it in a reply or other sort of communication.  That's the whole point.  Each person has their own opinion, including you; and then, during the discussion, others chime in with THEIR opinions.  Also, you were free to challenge his characterization of the site in a reply to him and have a DISCUSSION.  You chose not to. (If you intended this to BE that reply, then you have violated one of the rules that you fall back on in your post as the thread is still on the first page of this board.)

Giving one opinion more credence or attention (through posts like this), IMHO, assigns more importance to that opinion than need be.  You are making a post here that clearly implies that somehow, just because one or two "knuckledraggers" say something, it all of the sudden becomes holey writ that impacts the impression of the purpose of the site.  That's taking something way too seriously, IMHO.  

You disagree with that poster's opinion.  I get that, and I think everyone else gets that.  Why take it further?  The following is a very interesting example of what I call "Mirror Thinking" on your part:

"Otherwise, the knuckledraggesr will accomplish nothing more than driving off many of the intelligent conbributors and posters who contribute 90% of the content on these boards, leaving them a wasteland, unappealing to the majority of hobbyists and providers who do not desire to put up with a steady stream of penny ante juvenile nonsense."

Isn't the message in the OP of the thread that bothers you the same as what you have stated, but from a different perspective?  That OP was, in effect, saying that the posters who are more refined (my interpretation, he would probably call it PC) regarding their approach to (and their expression of that approach) the hobby are driving off the "men" who take a different approach because they don't feel able to post without being vilified by the providers and "progressive" (again, my interpretation) hobbyists.

You call them "knuckledraggers" and "juvenile" while referring to yourself and those who are like minded as "intelligent" (implying that the others aren't). How is that ANY different than him or others calling you feminine, PC, or a suck-up?  Why are the names you call him any less mean or rude?

Where does the censorship line get drawn?  Whether I agree with the poster or not is not the issue.  Whether you agree with the poster or not is not the issue.  It seems by your post that you would have the "knuckledraggers" silenced because you believe that 99% of the regular contributors agree with you that they ARE knuckledraggers that have no business on these boards.  Sorry, I'm not buying it.  EVERYONE has a place on these boards.  It is up to all of us to respond with differences of opinion.

As I said below, if you don't agree with what someone says, reply to them.  You will not get them silenced just because you differ in your approach to the hobby and the expression of that approach.  Do you honestly believe that the majority of the "regular contributors" to this site will be scared away by posts that disagree with them?  Even if those posters use "knuckledragging" language?  I give you and the rest of the regular contributors way more credit than that.

And what are you worried about anyway?  Do you think that anyone will be swayed by anyone else to change their approach to the hobby?

As to my application of the rules.  You imply that I am NOT applying the rules.  You are wrong.  I'm just not applying them as you would.  One of the important phrases in that passage that you posted is "will be reported to the Mod," which allows the person who feels offended to report it to the mod so that the offending post can be evaluated as to whether it crossed the line.  This opens a dialogue between the mod and the offended party resulting in further action one way or the other.  No matter what my decision on such a post, the offended party will know why I made it.  

Unless a post clearly and unequivocally crosses a line, I am not just going pull it.  There may be a number of reasons why the member to whom the post was directed may not want me to.  The best approach for all is to not take anything personally or too seriously.

Just remember this.  Not everyone who disagrees with you or your hobby approach is a knuckledragging Neanderthal misogynist, just like neither you nor everyone who agrees with you is a pantywaist pansy.  Play to the Gray, not the black and white.

Red face and Caps used for emphasis, not anger or shouting.

Women's sexual ability & looks get critiqued here.  GoodTiminingMan you are a mess.  Women laugh at you, and most men on this board deplore your rants. Clearly, your post is a wimpy attempt at white knighting, and ingratiating your sorry self on some of the ladies with no appointments on this board.  

of course TER isn't what one person says it is, it is what all the users make of it.

one thing that the users make of it is a marketplace. i'm taking a more business oriented view of your "flirting" here.

some can only compete in a limited commoditized market that exchanges pops for dollars. but even commoditized markets exchange other values: information, risks and less quantifiable values. these additional values can affect the worth on both sides of the client-provider exchange.

the beauty of the TER approach is that it permits effective participation by those who are in it for the more commoditized approach (soy beans, sow bellies or "hookers for hire") as well as the more upscale market participants (Sotheby's or "courtesan engagement"). by exchanging information one finds one's place in the market.

now some of the alias "commoditizers" make claims of superior manliness. naturally i don't buy into that. real men don't need to wrap one alias up in another alias. when i see news photos of terrorists wearing masks i don't see them as more manly because they need to hide.

being civilized (is that what the commoditizers call being "gay" or "metrosexual"?) has a value in this market. one of the values of being openly more civilized is that screening is gentler and slightly less intrusive. it is still strong enough to give me confidence the provider is taking care of herself (and by extension, me). but then that is what civilization is about, taking care of others than merely oneself.

so to the commoditizers: if your attitudes do not work well for you, why not consider changing them? if you cannot consider changing maladaptive attitudes you can _still_ use TER in a more commoditized way that suits your preferences for a commoditized experience.

there is plenty of room in the sandbox.

that little tab at the top so artfully labeled "reviews".

you are _now_ on the General Discussion Board which is not where the reviews are located. in fact reviews are not supposed to be posted here by policy as i understand it. reviews are to be found only on the review portion of the site or on the local discussion boards.

just in case you're having trouble navigating this morning.

YOUR view of what TER is about and should be.
This is not Disney Land, and it is a hooker review site.
The constant whining, crying, WKing, and endless group hugs serves to drive more PAYING customers away then the "knuckle dragging", as you describe it.
I know this to be a FACT. You can take that to the bank.
And why are you quoting to the MOD? He will do his job without you directing him to come to your defense. You say "bring it on" then remind DC. about policies. LOL. That's pathetic.

you might consider setting a good example by not whining and trying to impose your will? as is often the case in an argument one or both sides resort to whining and the attempt to impose their will when they have run out of ideas.

DC's a great mod who is leaving room in the sandbox for everyone to play.

would you? mmm.... don't think so somehow. could be wrong though...

The sandbox would be open to everyone to expound their views.
If you are going to post them, one should not expect that everyone has the same opinion.

but is it necessary to try and impose your opinion of "the obvious?" Yes, this may be also what some would call a "hooker" review site, and for some, the fantasy "IS" Disneyland ... but the term "hooker" is old hat ... wouldn't it be preferable to use the term "lady, provider, escort," or any other non-offensive term. Yes, my opinion ... that term is offensive.

This community is based on information, protecting each other and enjoying the hobby ... on both sides of the envelope. You state that you know for a FACT that some posters drive the paying customers away ... how do you know that? You mention this "between the lines" opinion, but I missed where you were appointed as the membership supervisor.

Reviews, except the mini's, go in the review section. Statements, critics of rates, timing, soft cocks, etc., can go General, or Regional.

The "Group" hugs, as you put it, should make a statement to you ... the "Group" seems to be more inclined to have the opposite opinion from you ... but again, it's just an opinion.

Continue to post, voice your opinions, but understand that those who post negative comments about the hobby or it's participants are only causing those, like me, to wonder why they partake of something they find so offensive and which they feel needs to be changed. If TER and it's "Group" don't suit you, by all means use CL ... perhaps there, the term "Hooker" is more appropriate.

Just my opinion ---

"What the Hell is TER?"

TER in it’s infancy was established, I believe, as stated in the Info & Policies “About Us” section:

“This site is here for one single reason: We all work hard for our money and we don’t want to waste it on someone who doesn’t deliver as promised. We are also dedicated to finding those special women who truly enjoy making the time we spend with them something special.”

And I think it fulfills that goal very admirably via the reviews and the additional input provided on the various boards. To the purist, it would be easy to say anything outside of that stated goal is unnecessary and extraneous. Why even HAVE discussion boards, just have the reviews and be done with it. But I think the creators and owners had a little something more in mind. I think they wanted a place that would provide more than just a collection of reviews. As stated on the  main page for the Discussion Boards:

“Welcome to the Erotic Review Discussion Area. Our boards are a wonderful place to hang with your fellow Hobbyists and catch up on all the latest news. We’re certain you will also find this area to be a great resource for information and meeting new friends, as well as an engaging platform for intelligent, humorous, and sometimes wild debate.”

So in my highly untrained and very personal opinion, TER through the various boards has evolved into not just a place for reviews but a Social Network. As Wikipedia defines it:

“A social network is a social structure made of nodes (which are generally individuals or organizations) that are tied by one or more specific types of interdependency, such as values, visions, ideas, financial exchange, friendship, sexual relationships, kinship, dislike, conflict or trade.”

In any open social network with a large number of members like TER, there will always be the opportunity for differing views to be expressed by it’s members. As we have so clearly seen in recent posts.

But that I think it was helps make TER such a great place and why it is so addicting to so many!

You just never know what your going to find..

Just some thoughts from me on a rainy day ….

(probably not even worth the cost of the electrons used to post it)


C_K

Grouchy this morning?  Sounds like someone needs to get laid!

The GD board is not the proper forum to critique the looks and performance of the ladies, or "hookers" as you so eloquently and respectfully put it.  We have reviews and the regional boards for that.

I try to never personally attack or name call posters.  But it seems my cavemen approach to the hobby offends.
At least to some.  I receive personal attacks on my posts.  Its just stupid to try to change my mind.  So why the personal attacks?
I am far from a neanderthal.  I am a majority partner in a very successful media/technology company so I have a lot of free time and cash.
And most knuckledraggers are simply men who like women a lot.  Biological imperative and all that.  I have issue with men who suck up and kiss ass.  But you free to do so obviously.  As long as we keep the comments not personal
I am fine with guys in skirts...

and a penny change for YOU....'

Referring to persons who were raised to be gentlemen or otherwise have become so as "Guys in Skirts" is really childish.....

and you've never ever seen me "sucking  up". Most of the ladies on thie board hate my guts for several reasons, not the least being my disdain for "safer sex" and my openness about BDSM.

If is possible to be polite (this is of course a choice you are free to make, or not make, here as well as on these boards) and not be a "WK" or "suck up".

Anytime you have something of merit with some actual *content* to debate with me, feel free.

Peace and Love, dude (lol)

GTM

1 - the comment below to which I referred was not the subject of the previous post. As I understand it, it is appropriate to start a new thread on a topic which may have been suggested or touched upon in a previous thread, as long as the new thread is not a simple continuation of the previous thread. I believe my "subject" to be different and thus appropriate. If I am wrong, please feel free to remove the thread.

2 - I thought this was a discussion board, so what's wrong with assigning importance to something / someone's point to further elucidate its implications?


3- I reserve the right, as long as the knuckledraggers respond to me and my opinions on this board by childish (IMO) playground insults, to exchange taunts! Isn't that more interesting than ingnoring them or whining to you or staff about it?

4- What censorship? I have not advocated censorship (meaning the selective removal of posts of a particular POV) anywhere at any time.

4 - I AM replying to them! That's what this post is about, an opportunity for the kd set to give me their best shot (pathetic so far, what?)

5 - This post was addressed to the board, not to you personally, though I did invoke your holy name. Nowhere did I state explicitly or by implication that you were not following the rules, or that you were not implying them to my satisfaction. I mentioned the rules simply as evidence regarding TERs purposes for the boards.

6 - I agree - not everyone who disagrees with my approach to the hobby, or to me personally, is a knuckledragger.  I've had many interesting discussions, and disagreements, and learned a lot from many of the posters.

HOWEVER - I reserve the right to use that label for anyone who resort almost entirely to childish taunts and locker room language. If they wish to raise the level of the discourse and make any cogent argument whatsoever I will discontinue the use of the term. (That'll be a long wait ' )

Cheers

GTM

Or imply you are contributing here and I am not.
My guys in skirts comment was a joke.  As I find it humorous and true that my actions are cavemen ish...
Notice my smiley in last post.

I did not say anything about escorts hating you so I don't know what that is about.
Your a real drag to be honest.  Ill refrain from commenting to your posts going forward.  And I ask the same of you.  Let's just disagree.

rise the the challenge of debate.

Grow up!

Chip,
Lets just say that I have been around a lot longer then you, and I know many more people in the hobby.
My comment about hobbyists leaving is based on facts and not hearsay.

My approach to the hobby is different then some. I tend to be more realistic and honest. I am also not politically correct, and will not take the follow the herd mentality.
Let me also state that I enjoy my sessions with the providers that I choose. I treat them well, but I also know that it is all about the envelope. That is primary and the ONLY thing that keeps the hobby going.
To coin a phrase, this is still a "fuck for bucks" business. Don't forget that.
Thanks for your opinion.
You stated it without whining, and stomping your feet.

unless you're over 60, you haven't been around longer than I have (lol), but I respect the comments and the gentlemanly way you responded.

For the record, I know many hobbyists ... most of them Lawyers, Judges (State and Federal) and even a few DA's. Some are even TER contributors on the boards. And unless it's an age thing (we are all over 50), we all respect women, regardless of their chosen occupation.

My hobbying is confined to very UTR ladies who do not want to be reviewed, and a high-end lady who I see whenever she tours the area. I am single, work a great deal and find the hobby to be a no-drama way of enjoying life. I personally dislike the negative terms used to describe the ladies in the hobby, and although I may be accused of being PC, it is the way I was brought up. No offense to you, no offense taken to your comments, but ... we all have our preferences. I treat a provider as I would any lady ... and in spite of the envelope. A provider is still someone's daughter, sister, SO, wife, etc., and just because there's a monetary exchange is no reason to use negative descriptions.

I respect everyone's opinion ... don't agree with them all, but respect their right to voice them.

Personal attacks have no place on TER.

It seems like every time he makes a post here some coward takes a pot shot at him from behind an alias. Don't you have enough balls to voice your disapproval of him and his posts from behind your "real" fake name? Or are you really that big a coward.

I don't always agree with GTM, but at least give him the consideration to reveal who it is that is disagreeing with him. What's the matter, are you afraid he'll hunt you down and beat you up? rofl

No GA, I think he/she is afraid the ladies will see his/her board name and maybe not want to deal with him/her...and what you said.

At least you and some others will tell it like it is with your real fake name...for that I applaud you.

My old pal, GaGambler.
I have many reasons for using my aliases.
I ENJOY them. That is good enough explanation for anyone. I need not answer to ANYONE.
Besides, I pay to be able to use them. It is my right, as long as TER permits them.

I will be laughing my ass off when you go too far and the mod flips your alias, just like the cowardly provider who thought she could make personal attacks on me from behind her alias.

I have not given reason for the mod to flip my alias.
Unlike the provider who was flipped, I did not attack anyone.
She was clearly stepping over the line. Of course, you needled her pretty good, and she fell into it.
I am not that stupid, and you are flattering yourself again.
     

He is just as entitled to his POV as you. You want honest feedback from someone not afraid to use his "real" name, you got it. I don't recall seeing GB making any attacks on you so WTF? Are you going to attack everyone who disagrees with you?

not to understand this:

" I have issue with men who suck up and kiss ass.  But you free to do so obviously. "

as an attack. A gentlemanly attack but nevertheless

OR

to consider this:

"Referring to persons who were raised to be gentlemen or otherwise have become so as "Guys in Skirts" is really childish....."

as an Attack!!

Who'se being sensitive now?

And if you apply a modicum of reading comprehension to my posts in this thread you will clearly see that I am *not* "attacking" anyone who does not agree with me.

Rather

I am making fun of and taunting the knuckledragger set - the type, for example, responsible for the issue with Mattradd mentioned above.

These folks have been attacking my posts for months. SO don't get precious about it if I decide to make fun of 'em!

Cheers

GTM

after rereading your posts, I really don't disagree with you. and yes LatexQueen/whateverthefuckherrealnameis was pretty stupid wasn't she?

I am going to end our disagreement by saying after further thought we really don't disagree after all, and I "apologize". See I told you I was going to amaze you. lol I bet you didn't see this one coming, did you? lol

I see many attacks on you, mainly from alias posters, but I don't see GB stooping to that level. Maybe you are the one getting a little sensitive here?

I am not really amazed.
I did suspect that you may have misses my original reply to the OP.
You and I rarely disagree on a multitude of issues.
Apology not necessary.

Thanks for letting me off the hook though.

Genuine apologies are a rarity here. I think I'll let mine stand.  If anyone says anything as revolting as "classy post" I'll take it all back. rofl.

"The constant whining, crying, WKing, and endless group hugs serves to drive more PAYING customers away then the "knuckle dragging", as you describe it.
I know this to be a FACT. You can take that to the bank. "

"Lets just say that I have been around a lot longer then you, and I know many more people in the hobby.
My comment about hobbyists leaving is based on facts and not hearsay."

Just because you know "many" people in the hobby, does not mean you have any way to know what specific reasons have caused more hobbyists in total to leave TER.

It is pure conjecture on your part, based on what must be a tiny fraction of observations from all the hobbyists that have ever left TER.

Don't pretend to know more than you do.

Zisk, lol.
Conjecture? I have heard it directly from others, and that is not an observation.
I don't need to pretend, and neither do you.

You didn't claim only that someone ever left for that reason, but that "more" have left TER for that reason than for the other reason.

You have no way to know that.

If you want to restate your claim to be limited only to the handful of people you personally know, then fine. But your original statement extrapolates to the entire population of ex-TER members. Its a bogus statement, and therefore not useful to determine what sort of board behavior will drive off the most members.

Besides you not even considering how many people may have joined TER after lurking on the boards - possibly more were attracted to join based on kumbaya group hugging, rather than reading "knuckle-dragging" posts. Again, you have no way to know.

BTW, if you did hear it directly from others, then it is an "observation", observation as in data point. The idea here is that your data points (observations) are but a tiny fraction of all the relevant data points, and too small of a sample to make any general conclusions from. Hence, pure conjecture.

Re: You need to re-read my post in the context of your OP.

First of all, my name is not holy.  By asking me to follow the rules or I would be bored, you are clearly implying that I don't.  I answered that in my first post.

By entitling the post the way you did, you weren't just responding that TER is not just a hooker review site, you were trying to make a case that the boards had somehow changed.  I was responding to that with a clear statement that EVERYONE is welcome on these boards.

Now for the main point, and I'm surprised that I have to spell this out for you.  You posted an opinion.  I replied to that opinion with my own.  That's what the boards are all about.  If people stopped taking disagreement so damned personally, there would be less rancor.  

As far as the censorship, when you apply a blanket indictment to the types of posters that you refer to as knuckledraggers, and then include in your post a request to implement the rules designed to pull posts and flip aliases, you are making a clear case for censorship, whether it's implicitly stated or not.  Again, I answered that case with my opinion.

You want the board to know that, in another forum, I encouraged what you call "knuckledraggers" to post.  I completely, absolutely, and categorically admit to that with utmost candor, sincerity, and pride.  I encourage EVERYONE to post.  That was the point of my post to you and my thread below.

Cheers back to you, and I look forward to future posts from you and everyone else.

You're expressing that I'm not understanding your post(s).

I'm of the opinion that you are not understanding mine, as intended anyway.

Impasse

However, I maintain respect and appreciation for your taking on the responsibiity of moderator.

See ya next time.....

GTM

discussion between three posters from divergent hobby approaches, including a caveman.  Who'd a thunk it?  You mean it's really fucking possible?  LOL

In all sincerity, thanks guys for proving my point.

Just kidding. LOL

I'll be happy to agree to disagree.  That's what we're here for.

Thanks for the kind words.

take it to the P&R boards DC !!

LOL

We are going to ruin the reputation of P&R.

I guess I better run out and pick a fight, any takers? lol

Sir -

sometimes I get pretty involved in a "discussion" like this, and fail to keep straight in mind just who contributed what. And in these circumstances, I sometimes fail to pick up nuances in a post that would normally be obvious. I had taken three of the last four lines of your post as an attack (although a very mild one!) because at that point I was a bit over-sensitized.

No excuse - just saying.

Others have specifically attacked me with terms like "WK" etc. You did not do so, though I was reacting to your particular post as though you had. I always find such attacks ironic, considering how many of the ladies of the board I have pissed off!

Bottom line - I apologize for inulting you.

Yes, we do have differing sensibilities with respect to communicating about the hobby. However, I am sure that you are at least just as much a gentleman in terms of how you treat the ladies you spend time with as I am.

Regards

GTM

It wouldn't stand a chance. lol