Re the word "escort," that's an interesting question. I'm not sure, but I think 30-or-so years ago escorts did exactly that, provide companionship at dinner, and no more. Anyone know more about this?
I've posted a bit on this already but this is a bit more on the new terminolgy of our little world. As some of you may know, I'm a recently returned player to this game and am stunned at how much it's changed as a result of the Internet, mostly for the better. Thanks to TER, BGFE and other sites there's much more information out there and the system, while annoying at times, actually does work better for players and providers. Great.
To me, what's not so great (really just annoying) is a minor thing: terminology. Back when I was first involved -- from 1986 through 1993 -- there were johns and hookers and the game was called The Life. John came, I believe, from John Doe which was the name LEO gave to guys who got busted (also to unidentified bodies). Probably there were other terms I've forgotten.
Now its The Hobby and we are "hobbyists." No disrespect but I just hate that word and will not use it. To me it's lame. In my mind, a hobbyist is someone sitting around in a cardigan sweater putting ships in bottles or tying flies. Seriously, people, can't we do better? And what about the term "provider?" At least it's not outright lame but it's still kind of generic and soul-less. From my brief experience since my return, the really hot and interesting girls are far from soul-less. They are gorgeous, ballsy and utterly feminine. They deserve a better word. I promise to attempt some new terms without flattering myself anyone else will use them. In the meantime, I'll refer to this wonderful little world of ours as "the game," to us as "players," and the girls as, well, "the girls."
Meanwhile, there's another word that needs correcting. Players are often referred to as "mongers," but, according to Webster's dictionary that's a mis-use of the word on two levels: first, monger is a dealer or broker in a commodity, but players are on "the buy side," so it's wrongly applied to us. And, in definition 2 it's someone who stirs up something petty or discreditable. But what's petty about pussy? Second, there's nothing inherently discreditable about it. It may be illegal but that's just our petty, discreditable legal system saying that. The only good thing about the word is that it's "of Greek origin." So if we change the word to mean someone who seeks a trip to the Isles, I'll sign on for that!
Yours truly,
The Cunning Linguist
i detest "hobby". for me it brings up images of stamp collecting or knitting. however "the game" brings up images of chess or poker rather than "poke her" (i mean the latter in as nice and pleasant way as imaginable). still when it is played well it is a "great game".... how about "THE GREAT game"? for us history buffs that gives us the cover of ambiguously referring to Russian versus British ambitions in South Asia in the 19th century....
"players", "girls", (and although you didn't mention them "boys"?) are all good.
i am totally with you as to the unsuitability of "monger". note that in the wiki article linked it is suggested that "fishmonger" was used as a euphemism for a pimp in Hamlet. i have railed at this misuse before to no avail. i wish you well in your quest to reform our usage.
I'm not sure why you're ranting about these words. These terms aren't "new". They've been around for a decade plus. Language changes over time constantly. We also don't say "groovy" and "yeah, that's heavy, man." anymore. It just sounds like a case of "you can't teach and old dog new tricks" to me. Don't be so uptight, man, make love not war!
I believe "monger" actually is just short for "whoremonger". Which is as old as dirt, it's in the bible, right?
-- a "playa", not a player
sorry, I meant to say "you can't teach AN old dog new tricks". Woof!
I find it the best terminology someone has used in a long time. I'm comfortable with bad words in a private settings. I wasn't raised with a silver spoon in my mouth and I'm sure not conceited; I know and accept that at the end of the day what I do is called prostitution even if I market myself in the higher end of the spectrum. I do not feel that I'm any better than a street walker although my heart my ache when I see the conditions some girls are in.
Wether you are referring to a street walker or a courtesan, what I do have a problem with on this board are people using the words: johns, hookers, piece of ass or meat or anything degrading towards themselves or the ladies. If one needs to put others or themselves down to that level imagine how sad their outlook on their lives or opinion of themselves or the world around them can possibly be? If a playa isn't willing to respect himself by calling himself a john please spare the girls of the demeaning terminology when referring to us.
Have a nice game day!
SC
I firmly agree with Cleo as it is all about how one perceives things.
The "common term" is prostitutes and johns - you see that everywhere in our society, especially the media.
However, there will always be other words that are derived from the common terms, which again, is the value that the person has of it.
It may be a generation thing for me, but I cannot stand the terms hooker, whore, tricks and johns ... just seems like a Baretta or Hawaii-FiveO episode back in the day with the street terminology.
So, whatever happened to the common terms of ladies and gents?
Back in the day, courtesans were considered ladies and the company that they kept were with gents of influence, power and wealth.
I guess it just depends on how you perceive the industry and what feels right for you!
Sunshine Smiles ~
Lacie O
@->--
You're right, all those terms are lame. And this ain't a fucking hobby. No need for thinking up clever lables for all of it, just call it like you see it.
In what venue, or in whose company do these terms even become relevant?
Only in a venue such as this, are they relevant. And I don't think "providers" or "hobbyists" need to be distinguished as such in a place like this - we already know what you're talking about simply by the fact that you are HERE. The only time clarification is needed here is when you are NOT talking about something related to P4P.
Do you need to say "I saw this provider's ad on Eros"...no shit, she was on Eros so what the fuck else would she be? A nanny? "I read another hobbyist's review on her and"...really, he was a "hobbyist", and not some guy who just likes writing fictional acounts about hookers on a P4P site? Thanks for clarifying that.
Outside of a venue like this, it would a be a very rare circumstance to find yourself discussing such things, given the uber-incognito nature of the biz. And even if you did, does the average person who doesn't dabble in P4P know what the fuck a hobbyist or a provider is, in this context? They'll think you're talking about stamp collectors and HMO's. Thus - all of those terms are utterly USELESS, in addition to being lame.
I like to fuck and I will use whatever method or approach suits me best at whatever moment in time I plan to make that happen. Simple as that. Attaching labels to everything and everyone involved does not change a thing.
yuk yuk!! Get a poor lady who is sooo high or in such a need of cash that she can block out who she is laying down with.
Even though I have no idea WTF you're talking about.
I think you did, unless you just like looking at your own words on a screen. You being the most prolific female poster on this board, I'm beginning to see that's the case. Good for you, everyone needs a "hobby".
Anyhow, please be a little more obscure next time so everyone can understand a little less, what exactly your problem is. In the meantime, have a seat next to all the others waiting for me to give a fuck. Thanks, "hooker".
Love, "John".
xoxoxo
You can use many degrading disrespectful words all lined up up one paragraph. Greet human being...
Jeez man, come up for air.
Sorry if we didn't entertain nor educate you on any topics of value this morning. We must have failed our jobs.
find that term more inapporiate than the words you have mentioned, and very offensive to someone who really IS lame.
This word is used in every day life as well, completely out of context.
Not sure why my appology to Zorba never got posted, but I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It really was unintentional. May I substitute "stupid" for the L word? Or will stupid people object? I hope not.
Had to do it. 
Duhhhh...sorry, I don't understand your post!
I detest these terms. I would rather say, "ladies" and "gents" or "the lady and her visitor." "Players" is ok too, much better than "hobbyist."
My question for the ladies is, how do they refer to the men when talking among themselves. Is it still "Johns"?
In my close circle of girlfriends we use "the" or "my client" and if he is a regular we use his first name or his nickname from his email addy. We often refer each other gentlemen so we get to know the same gents. If he is a real unpleasant person mo fo is appropriate.
Re mo fo, did you ever see the episode on "The Sopranos" where Tony is seeing his shrink and talks about a very hot affair he's begun? His shrink, played by Lorraine Bracco, refers to it as an "amour fou" (for you non Cleos that's "mad love"). Tony then refers to it as a "mo fo." Now I can't see "mo fo" without thinking of Tony.
-- Modified on 11/29/2010 7:37:43 AM
-- Modified on 11/29/2010 7:51:01 AM
Mo fo was the closest thing he could relate to. I'm surprised you even know what it means
You're too much of an intellectual to understand this term!
Har ! Get to know me better, C! You'll find I have my reprehensible sides like everyone else, though, unlike Tony they don't include murder. Nah...I'm really just a big 'ol pussycat. Or maybe pussy hound, "braying through the underbrush," as Nabokov puts it.
For ladies: Undocumented Sexual Surrogates, Pleasure Purveyors for Pay, Flaunters of Social Norms, Hedonistic Harlots, Demure Damsels, Eager Eaters, Fabulous Flappers ...
For gents: Independent Incubi, Materialistic Seducers, Plentiful Poppers, Bombastic Boppers, Pulsating Pounders ...
Love your use of alliteration. How about Coital Cuties, Divine Divers, Sexy Strumpets, Humpable Hoydens, etc., for the girlz.
For the guys we could try Peurile Penile Pussy Pounders (do I get extra points for a quadruple alliteration?), Oversexed Orgasmic Organists (hey, a triple!), etc.
Save finger strain. How about "ladies" and "guys"?
It doesn't have to be complex and elaborate as long as it is respectful. Maybe to you or to most this conversation is just pure brain fuck but my background in college was in part in linguistics (I'm trying to stay vague for privacy reasons I know it's only an illusion but let me live with it please) so I get a great kick out of terminology in general and johngaltnh and inicky46 seem to feel the same way so no need to rain on our parade Peace!
... you Teasingly Titillating Tart Purveying Pure Pleasure! (*grin*)
Very intellectually inclined and use language eloquently so I'm intrigued in what both you're job or training is or has been.
I'll PM you on that because I don't want any of these guys to tell my Mom; she still thinks I play piano in a whore-house (very, very old joke from before your time)
Q: "What do you do for a living?"
A. "I'm in Public Relations, but please don't tell my Mom. She thinks I play piano in a whorehouse."
-- Modified on 11/29/2010 1:22:51 PM
'Prostitute' is the most common, official legal, and almost universally-recognized term world-wide.
'Sex worker' is increasingly commonly used by sociologists.
'Whore' (and foreign language variants) is arguably the common pejorative slang, worldwide.
'Customer' (or the foreign language equivalent) is the most common term used to refer to the customer. 'Patron', 'Solicitor of prostitution', and 'client' also apply, even in certain Northern European countries, most notably Sweden, where hiring a prostitute is illegal but prostitution itself is not. The increasingly popular legal rationale/mindset for this law is that prostitutes are victims of sexual assault/exploitation, and thus should not be penalized. But the persistence and popularity of pejorative terms for prostitutes suggests that society continues to view prostitutes more negatively than their customers. So I suppose terms for prostitutes will continue to become negative, whereas the customers will always just be customers.
My wife suggested to me once that prostitutes will always be viewed negatively by most societies because they are threats to the core societal unit -- the family. The customer, on the other hand, *IS* part of the core societal unit. So prostitutes will always be on the losing side of a classic Us vs. Them conflict. I think my wife makes a good point.
In the civie world, we call a woman who sleeps with many men a slut and a man who does the same thing a player, someone with mojo, or game etc...?
Interesting question, Cleo.
I think a 'traditional' answer would be that the negativity associated with female promiscuity relative to male promiscuity has something to do with evolutionary strategies: A guy needs to spread his seed while a woman needs to nurture hers.
But that's psycho-babble. In fact, women tend to be guilty of infidelity almost as much as men, and nuns cheat on their vows a little less, but not a huge amount, less than priests. Guys are horny, but so are women. There's more to it than that.
But yet men report many more sexual partners, on average, than women. The mismatch suggests there are some really promiscuous women servicing a lot of guys. Given the rate by which men report use of prostitutes, not all the 'slutty' women are prostitutes. Yet, as you point out, Cleo, they're still 'slutty'. Maybe part of the reason women in general are less promiscuous is because promiscuous women are seen as less respectable. Is this a 'strategy' by a male-dominated society that doesn't want to get cuckolded?
My guess is that both biology and sociology are at play here. For evolutionary reasons, women need to be choosy and have no advantage in choosing too often. In contrast, men can afford to go for it. And because it's a male-dominated world, going for it is cool -- if you're a guy. It's not cool if your woman is getting nailed behind your back.
If I'm right, as women get more power in society, male monogamy will probably be increasingly prized. Indeed, it was once seen as perfectly nifty for a guy to have a lot of mistresses. Almost de rigueur for royalty etc. Not any more. At least not in most of the world. But until we get to the gender-neutral world, more male-dominated societies will continue to have the harshest penalties for female promiscuity.
That was exactly what I thought about when I was younger and not an escort... All these men who are studs and these ladies who are virtuous... it doesn't add up. At that time it didn't occur to me that they were paying for it. I used to be a little naive a while back (all gone now) but thanks for explaining it makes lots of sense.
On the other hand, I've heard my 25-year-old step-daughter referring to a guy who slept around a lot as "a little man-whore." So women of that generation are thinking and talking like guys in a very liberated way. To me, it's similar to the way blacks have taken back the N-word and use it among themselves. I wish no one would use the N-word, the W-word, the C-word or any word that demeans, but no one's going to stop it...and I wouldn't want to live in a world where anyone could.
I agree on hobbyist but on a general and yes generic provider sounds less whorish lol therefore a little better than just escort. And it's something like hobbyist I think different walks at least for the sake of general convo can fit under because not every lady is a dirty street hooker or a courtesan or a playmate/elite companion For guys John unless that's his name or TRICK are terrible terms.
To me, what's not so great (really just annoying) is a minor thing: terminology. Back when I was first involved -- from 1986 through 1993 -- there were johns and hookers and the game was called The Life. John came, I believe, from John Doe which was the name LEO gave to guys who got busted (also to unidentified bodies). Probably there were other terms I've forgotten.
Now its The Hobby and we are "hobbyists." No disrespect but I just hate that word and will not use it. To me it's lame. In my mind, a hobbyist is someone sitting around in a cardigan sweater putting ships in bottles or tying flies. Seriously, people, can't we do better? And what about the term "provider?" At least it's not outright lame but it's still kind of generic and soul-less. From my brief experience since my return, the really hot and interesting girls are far from soul-less. They are gorgeous, ballsy and utterly feminine. They deserve a better word. I promise to attempt some new terms without flattering myself anyone else will use them. In the meantime, I'll refer to this wonderful little world of ours as "the game," to us as "players," and the girls as, well, "the girls."
Meanwhile, there's another word that needs correcting. Players are often referred to as "mongers," but, according to Webster's dictionary that's a mis-use of the word on two levels: first, monger is a dealer or broker in a commodity, but players are on "the buy side," so it's wrongly applied to us. And, in definition 2 it's someone who stirs up something petty or discreditable. But what's petty about pussy? Second, there's nothing inherently discreditable about it. It may be illegal but that's just our petty, discreditable legal system saying that. The only good thing about the word is that it's "of Greek origin." So if we change the word to mean someone who seeks a trip to the Isles, I'll sign on for that!
Yours truly,
The Cunning Linguist
Re the word "escort," that's an interesting question. I'm not sure, but I think 30-or-so years ago escorts did exactly that, provide companionship at dinner, and no more. Anyone know more about this?
With my agency I use to get at least one or two girls per week applying for work and asking in the comment section:"Do I really have to have sex with the guy?" Or "I go to dinner with him and if there is chemistry then and only then I sleep with him right?" Karoline my good friend and biz partner at the time (a woman of a few words but can be so hilarious) would answer: "Oh there is chemistry every single time". I use to get a kick out of that and add to her answer:" what you are seeking is a myth lady it doesn't exist". We had hourly rates on the web site.... You think you just have coffee looking pretty for an hour and the guy gives you an envelop and says ok thanks it was great bye see you next time!? Mine is well to just slip the envelop under the girl's door to not disturb her.
I don't know what they did 30 years ago but the modern geishas do something like playing music hanging out, watching the dudes get shit faced not sure if they go out with the gents or not but I know there isn't really sex unless the gent gets the lady on his pay roll just like the old courtesans. Please correct me if I'm wrong I didn't wiki this at all.
Before I got into all of this yeah my cookie cutter plain idea of an escort was just that and those who in the end got compensation for more were *coughs* prostitutes (no matter if she was high end etc).