If you read her post the reason why was she seeing new in lieu of a regular was because she was previously scheduled with the NCNS guy prior to being contacted by her regulars.
I know I wouldn't like a woman to cancel on me because a regular contacted her.
I'm sure it happens but I'd be pissed if that happened.
I do think the canceling monger should pay half the fee. NCNS is inexcusable.
Losing a cell phone is possible. Happens to me all the time. Still the woman shouldn't be punished for the monger's carelessness
So I've got a question and would love personal opinions to help guide me to doing the right thing for all concerned.
I had a meeting last week and I screen. He sent over 2 provider references along with his personal info. Now I took a look at the provider references and they had little to no web presence, not well known ladies at all. As a matter of fact they had only an email address, a TER ID, no phone and no website. One lady had one review from the gent who was looking for an appt and the other lady had 4-5 reviews from about a year ago. Both the ladies and the gent are on another review board as well.
The guy has reviews here back to 2005 and he also has a lot of reviews written on the other board as well. So because the provider reviews were sketchy at best I got his employment info and had to screen him that way. He checked out fine and the date was set. At the time I asked for his employer info, I did not see how many reviews he had here and the other board.
Ok, the evening rolls around and he NCNS's me. In the meantime, 2 of my regulars have called me and wanted to see me the same time that evening. So after he NCNS's me when I could have seen one of my regulars, I was pissed. I emailed him and asked him for a cancellation fee of half of what he cause me to loose by not giving me a simple fucking phone call. His alibi for the NCNS was that during a meeting that day his boss had picked up his cell phone by mistake when they were all leaving the meeting and he had no way to contact me. I say he could have found a way to contact me and I want my cancellation fee basically, but in a nice way. For gods sakes, how hard is it to remember scarlettkiss.com and look up my website and my phone number and call me from a pay phone or something? Does it really sound feasible in this day and age that somebody looses sight of their phone for 30 seconds especially when it has an escorts info all in it?
Now I take the fact that I have this man's personal and employment info in my hands very seriously and the thought of outing him in a personal way is not an option for me. That just isn't right.
But should I out him in the hobby world to the other ladies? Should I let some of the well known ladies in my area know what he did and give them his hobby info only?
He has not responded to my last email where I stood firm on requesting my cancellation fee since last Thursday. I think that makes him a real SOB in my book. And another point I thought of if he is always a good player, why did he send me 2 "no names" for references when he has a long list of ladies he's recently seen?
What do you gentleman say? Should I make the ladies aware of this behavior or just put him on my personal DNS list?
Thanks
is that I would shy away from any provider that I knew had been outing people for anything other than abusive behavior. I wouldn't want to end up blacklisted for a misunderstanding. I stay away from any provider with any hint of drama.
You may be justified in this case, but I'd just put the guy on a personal DNS list.
Would you want a guy NCNS's by a provider to post such info?
If you would, then what is the difference with the provider posting the NCNS here?
Just as one bad review doesn't kill a provider's career, one NCNS is unlikely to kill a provider or client's career.
Put him in your personal "go to hell" list and chalk it up to a bad day.
Don't do anything else that would come back around and hurt you.
Move on and trust your gut in the future.
Thanks for all the input. I do appreciate it. And I haven't shared any info but with one provider through PM and that was hobby related info only. I have and would think long and hard before putting anyone on a blacklisting site.
To answer a couple of questions, I had booked this appt a week prior and the regulars had contacted me the same day. So, it would have been shitty on my part to kick the new and screened guy to the curb and see one of my regulars. And I had no idea he was going to NCNS at that point either.
And yes, of course, I've had NCNS's before but just thought I'd ask for some input this time and it was a good experience. I did learn from it.
From another gent, who posted that he would pass if I had a Cancellation fee clause on my site, why pass? I wouldn't ask a cancellation fee if you contact me to let me know something is amiss and you can't make it. Even if you contact me after the fact, I still wouldn't ask the cancellation fee.
And like I said, I would never out anyone's personal info except in the case of physical harm as suggested by other posters.
There has been so much talk of giving out personal info and screening lately, I posted this here for 2 reasons.
1. I sincerely wanted some opinions from the guys and I also appreciate Natalie giving her opinion. I did post this first on the PO board, but only 4-5 ladies gave their opinion and I decided I wanted more input.
2. I wanted to make a point that we're not all raving lunatics and indiscreet when it comes to the info that we're given during screening whether it be personal or hobby related.
Like I originally posted, I wouldn't give out any personal info and I have not. When and if providers PM me and ask for the info, I am only giving out hobby info. I don't think it's fair in this case to give out personal info.
I also have been successful in getting cancellation fees before. It depends on the circumstances, the 2 parties involved, and it's a 50/50 chance so why not ask? All that can happen is I get it or I don't.
But I can't go all vindictive when the game doesn't go my way and I wanted to make that point and receive the input.
Taken from one of my favorite books, "The 48 Laws of Power" Law 5 - So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard it with your Life
Thanks
Makes no sense. He NCNS's? He should be toast!
If you read her post the reason why was she seeing new in lieu of a regular was because she was previously scheduled with the NCNS guy prior to being contacted by her regulars.
I know I wouldn't like a woman to cancel on me because a regular contacted her.
I'm sure it happens but I'd be pissed if that happened.
I do think the canceling monger should pay half the fee. NCNS is inexcusable.
Losing a cell phone is possible. Happens to me all the time. Still the woman shouldn't be punished for the monger's carelessness
Oh I forgot to state that I've decided to just put him on my DNS list and only give out the hobby info to the other ladies if and when asked as suggested by most of the posters so far.
Thanks again.
Yeah, shit happens, I can dig that. Yet if it seems to happen repeatedly with the same individual...
I'm not in your area though if I were traveling through (with additional expenses!) he's not someone that I would want to risk scheduling a session with. Just as with unfavorable reviews one bad report will not tarnish his reputation, yet if no steps forward to make that bad report an unfavorable pattern will not be noticed.
We used to locally call this type of behavior a PITA (pain in the ass) a much lower offense than a bad client. Private communication of the info to ladies and hobby handle/email should be enough.
The reason I recommend only hobby handle and email above is that ladies have taken it upon themselves to submit other reports to NBL (see below.) You may avoid the site yet someone may report it there outside your awareness.
Whatever you do stay away from National BlackList! His offense does not warrant having any true personal information outted all over a Google searchable site. IMHO, the only offense serious enough to warrant such public attention is physical assault. Even then I believe the outting should be via public records when the bastard is arrested, not by a provider directly.
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One time offenders don't deserve a blacklisting of any sort. To do this goes overboard and will end up hurting your own business in the end. I have been NCNS several times by providers and put them on my personal DNS list and moved on. Now if his name ever comes up in conversation, tell all. I do the same and I know I have cost a few girls a couple thousand a piece, because they NCNS me. That always comes back to haunt the guilty party, and there is no need to alert the media. Karma is a bitch, and so is the grapevine.
Outing some one is wrong. Put him on your DNS list.How would you like to have some one have your personal information and out you for a NCNS.We don't allow anything that outs either a provider or hobbyist.
First off, he's an ass for not offering.
Second, for you, I (and most clients, I assume) can't/won't use the web to view TER or other related sites at work. Many companies use web filters and logs to check web habits. Many even read emails. So, his excuse for the initial NCNS might be legit.
As crappy as the behavior is, I would also say that the occasional NCNS is part of any business model, and the cost of that is built into the general product pricing.
As for outing him (hobby info) in some way. You can certainly say something to your girlfriends, or (maybe) the PO board, but I would also provide the general details (i.e. YMMV), but again, I think this is part of doing business.
The real exception, is if you booked a location, extended your trip, etc. just at a request for him. However, based on what you have said about your screening, I doubt this is the case.
I read your description of your screening, and I was surprised you saw him. The operative part being the two "sketchy provider references". Did you at least know/contact either reference?
Two cents from the client side.
stealing from you is unacceptable.
There is too much of that going on, and too many experienced gents - some of the ones you most want to have for clients - are coming to the conclusion that it is not safe for us to give personal information anymore.
This will ultimately hurt the provider's ability to screen in a way that promotes their own safety. And that is not good for hobbyists either.
NCNS is unconscionable - either way. I have no problem with your posting the guys *board handle(s)* for NCNS or other lesser offenses. But posting personal information should be the very last resort for the most serious, potentially threatening behavior.
I agree.. who's to say the provider isn't just a little ticked off or lying either I've had a provider post all my information just because I had to cancel!
that NCNS justifies
POSTING A GUYS PERSONAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET?
That is insane.
A lot of providers may not realize it now, but this trend is going to come back to bite them in the ass, when they can't find experienced hobbyists who will give them personal information....
Then I will settle for gentlemen who are not necessarily experienced hobbyists but will give me what I need to feel safe etc. Not all experienced hobbyists are worth the trouble GTM..some are over bearing..a little arrogant and frankly, too high maintenance. Sorry but experienced hobbyists are not the be and end all of this little world we play in.
I am inclined to agree with you to a point ( I have posted men for more than ncns but less than a beating or outright theft. You know there are some things that don't fall under your category that need to be stated along with ceratin info).
However, these types of PITA's will just change their hobby email and phone and handle if need be and keep on doing this annoying and juvenile behavior.
If I get a ncns...I chalk it up to the cost of doing business. I get them so damn rarely it has no impact on me.
If you know anyone who has gone through the hell of being outed to their family (client or provider), ask *them* just how much someone should have to do to be put through that.
There has to be a better way than *outing* someone because they ncns someone or because someone does not like their manners or even their board posts for fuck's sake....
No disrespect intended by any means at all, but is this the very first NSNC incident you've ever had?
A lady with nearly 100 TER reviews and I would think others on other board would have run across this issue before. (great reviews I might add also, lol)
Be that as it may you just move on. I have had a couple NSNC incidents and most hobbyists have. It does go with the territory. As a provider however, I would tread lightly about exposing him in any manner at all. The end results can never be good for YOU personally by doing so. For sure he goes on you "Dip Shit List" and never gets another chance.
Back channel processes are always the best. I would not be surprised if ladies reading this board in your area are PMing you already to find out who this jerk is. That's the best method.
Lastly, in theory it would be nice to be able to ask for 1/2 of the fee for the inconsiderate cancellation, but in reality you would never get it. And if he did give it to you all this discussion would become moot. And he probably then also would deserve another chance. lol
To your website.
That in itself would make me say "next".
I have never been a NCNS, but I wouldn't see you if I thought you would request one in the event something happened that was out of my control.
If that clause was not there when you agreed to see him, you shouldn't be asking for it.
You can put him on your personal DNS list. Nothing wrong with that. Obviously you will also share his info with other providers. That goes without saying.
I am all for compensation under certain circumstances. However, I hear of very few providers compensating hobbyists for their NCNS's.
cancellation fees...good luck with that! Do you actually think someone who NCNS cares about that?
As the poster above mentioned, that would be a cause for me never even booking you. I've never done that, but have had to cancel in the past with plenty of notice.
As Smarty mentioned, you have been around for a while, and got on here asking "newbie" provider questions. And what a coincidence that two regulars called wanting that exact time, that you were waiting for a guy with a non existant history.
I am calling BS on this whole rant. Looks like an attempt for some Monday morning Drama. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of guys offering you a kleenex, but personally, the only part of this story I buy is that you got stood up, for yopur only date this weekend. That's why the angry scowl on your face this morning. Get over it, shit happens!
but inre to NCNS and cancellation fees, How do you feel about a provider paying a cancellation fee of sorts for NCNS'ng herself?
Before you state that the hobbyist suffers no loss of income, let me first tell you that some of us make several times what a typical provider charges and consider our time at least as valuable. How many times have we heard about a hobbyist driving clear across town, just to sit in a parking lot with his dick in his hand?
If a hobbyist NCNS a provider on an incall, it costs her an hours worth of revenue. If the provider cancels, or just plain dissappears, the hobbyist can easily be out three hours of lost time.
I know "you" would never do that, but by the same token, I would never NCNS a provider. So what's a man (or a woman) to do? NCNS sucks for whichever party is on the recieving end.
Neither party should EVER NCNS. Life does happen and if it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a meeting one should call or email as soon as possible. If it is after the meeting time, it should be in the form of an appology.
The same is true of a Lady who is unable to make a scheduled meeting.
Down Time is a cost of doing business, regretable but a simple fact. I don't feel outting or public BL-ing is appropriate (unless you think clients should do so for providers who NCNS).
I don't think a cancelation fee is appropriate unless you are willing to make a NEW appointment on the basis thereof. If your policy is NO FUTURE APPOINTMENTS, then you have no relationship with the other party... and want none.
He sure will not use you as a referance but if another provider were to inquire, you'd certainly mention he NCNS.
I do NOT use my regular phone for hobby purposes nor do I keep provider numbers in my hobby fone after the meeting. I do keep provider info in my private hobby e-mail. Even if I had to delay contact due to unforseen circumstances, I would certainly be able to make the contact within 24 hours unless I was dead or hospitalized.
I have had it happen, I was on the highway on the way to a meeting... I think it was the 3rd meeting with this Fav lady. Sudden & unexpected severe weather actually stopped traffic on the interstate. I was stopped in the high speed lane when I called her. This could have happened to either of us.
We were able to reschedule a few days later, had a great time & I still see her.
His lack of gentlemanly conduct is not an outable offense... but it sure does not warrent a good conduct medal.
skb
You can out him by TER handle. The ladies deserve to know about this just as the guys do, even more so. You take an hour to get ready, don't schedule anything during that time and can't schedule for after. Even a one hour NCNS can cost you a day or an entire evening.
On the other hand, outing his personal info would cause the guys to stop seeing you. You are exactly right in your thoughts.
Wow....someone who can actually read and comprehend.
As noted...she NEVER said she was going to "out" him with his personal info or cause him distress in his personal life. The number of responses who read this into it is scary. They apparently can't read or understand what they are reading.
Anyone who NCNS should be identified to other parties that it may happen to.
Getting money for it would be nice...and if he was a decent person...he would have offered something.
But, we all know that nice and decent are rare commodities, so that didn't happen.
Like SoFla said....you're right in your thoughts.
Don't sweat the responses from those who don't understand the points made.
Just sayin'
anytime that behavior comes to my attention, a new lady goes on my permanent shit list.
Sure - post his board handle(s) and email addys. Even his cell #. But leave it at that.
Good thing she already said that wasn't her intention and she wouldn't do it.
Quoted from her original post for comprehension:
"Now I take the fact that I have this man's personal and employment info in my hands very seriously and the thought of outing him in a personal way is not an option for me. That just isn't right."
It's no wonder things get so mucked up on boards when people can't even grasp the original message.
All of which he can change in a day. Now posting his info for a ncns...no but for other more serious infractions yes I would and I have.
however, outing him would be just as wrong. The guy is an asshole, and he cost you money, but didn't cause you any harm. Put him on your personal DNS list, and move on.
It's probably too late now, but the good business policy would've been to get him to reschedule. If he truly had something go wrong, he would likely jump at the chance and possibly become one of those regulars.
If not, all likelihood of worrying about DNS lists becomes irrelevant, because he's not calling again.
I've had shit go wrong and had to cancel at the last possible minute. The lady took a chance, based upon my track record with other ladies, and I've seen her lots of times since.
Sometimes, shit happens.
Guys who can afford to drop hundreds of bucks on an hour of a lady's time DO have lives outside the hobby that can intrude -- just as ladies do. They have jobs that often entail a lot of responsibility, etc.
NCNS -- or any cancellation for that matter -- always sucks.
BUT -- that is an opportunity to make a friend and repeat client; or a time to make sure the cancellation fee is the last $ of his that you ever see.
You can make a friend, or you can make an enemy.
Assessing a fee and then outing the guy to your girlfriends because he failed to pay a fee that shouldn't have been assessed is not, IMO, a recipe for creating repeat business.
NCNS guys and NCNS gals, or maybe even my personal unfavorite, the three hour late gal.
Since this is your only experience with this guy and you have no basis to believe he makes a habit of this, I think you have to view this as one of the slings and arrows of the compensated dating business. Put him on your personal "never again" list if you choose but that should be the extent of your reaction at this time. If he books again, and the same thing happens, then it is time to reassess being proactive here.
As for the cancelation fee, that usually causes more grief than benefit as a marketing tool. Cancel that one too unless you provide some compensation to the client if you are the one who has to cancel.
Quite possibly the two references he gave you were the more recent providers he visited. Many providers state that they will not give a reference to anyone they have not seen in 3 months or 6 months or a year.
As for the NCNS, well that happens on both sides and is part of the business. I understand on your end it is a bit worse because you lose out on money to pay bills and such whereas on the guys end it just means we lose out on a sexual romp.
If you want to put him on your personal DNS list then that is your business, personally I don't think you have to worry about him calling you again. As for outing him to other providers, I would say don't do that. I work in retail and we sometimes get people who want us to order things especially for them. Some of those people never come back to purchase their special order. I don't go calling all other retailers and giving them information on these customers.
To me that just smacks of "oh someone pissed me off, I am going to get revenge".
b-
On the lighter side, ... don't be surprised if the Boss doesn't call ya for a date! hehehhh
Oh that is cute, his boss calling me for a date! Thanks
Thanks so much to all the responses and especially to the ones who actually read my OP even though it was rather lengthy. I was trying to include all the facts.
I've decided to remove the cancellation fee info from my site. I can always ask privately if I feel it is justified, but like I said before; I'm not outing anybody over something like this.
I don't plan on posting anything anywhere, but if a provider specifically asks me I will pass along the hobby info ONLY.
Thanks guys!
so I decided to come here and let you guys tell me straight out like it is like I knew you would! LOL
Happy Hobbying!
witches who run that board conjure up! If you're not gonna spew names, addresses, phone #'s, kid's, and dogs names, it's not news, and they don't care! You did better bringing it here. At least you got some of the slugs to agree with you based solely on YOUR side of the story, and you didn't have to totally out him (a death with for your business) or showw a pic with you holding his heart and penis on a stick!
NCNS sucks, but it happens on both sides of the hobby, and ruins everyones day!