Before I knew that 80% of what she told me was a lie I worked with her to get her a GED. I paid for a teacher bought books and coached her for six or seven months. I met her parents and she had their support. The teacher I hired and I encouraged her at every step. I received a sorry story to begin with about her 5 year old child and how she had lost custody because of prison time in OK. The whole thing was a pack of lies. After Valentine's day I came to the conclusion that there was no redeaming value in her. Her father and I were talking last week and he told of the time in jr. hi she told a friend that she had to go through a kidney operation. Any how I still feel bad when some one beats a woman and she refuses do some thing about it.
I have been advised of a provider I thought a lot of was beaten by her pimp. It seems her dad had arrianged for a rental house for her. While moving in her pimp beat the hell out of her and busted up some walls. What has me bothered is she is a tiny thing and after the beating wouldn't press charges against him. Her dog bit a cop and the dog had to go to the pound for 10 days. The pimp is free and the dog goes to jail??? She was evicted from the house and her dad had to repair the damage.
I wanted to bring this up to get others to explain WHY would any woman allow some one to abuse her and not get away from the one that hit her. She is still with the SOB and touring with him. The time I spent with her she showed me a bruse he left on her arm and I advised her to get a state wide restraining order. She said she did but as usual with her it was a lie. Her pimp remarked to her dad "I hope you won't come after me over this" I talk to her dad quite often and can believe him when she would lie when the truth sounds better.
My wife used to work for a women's shelter and domestic abuse hotline. It's a horrible problem, but it has nothing more to do with sex work than drugs or slavery. We need to disconnect these things in our heads!
Men can also be victims of domestic violence. Lawyers and physicians can be drug addicts and beat their girlfriends. People can be (and are) forced to do all sorts of things besides sex.
Sorry, I know you mean well with your question, and I don't mean to imply that domestic violence is not a very important problem relevant to many people who also happen to be involved in sex work. But it perpetrates a stereotype. If the woman was an accountant and the abuser her live in tax attorney boyfriend would you be thinking about the question the same way?
"I wanted to bring this up to get others to explain WHY would any woman allow some one to abuse her and not get away from the one that hit her."
Well, it's quite simple on one level and complex on another. She doesn't believe she can get away from him. That can be a belief base on her present reality, since a restraining order is laughable when it comes to protection. Plus, she may have a deep seated belief she that came by as a small child. If a child is subjected to abuse, neglect and/or bullying, and have no means of protection or escape, they often grow up to feel powerless to do so as an adult. Plus, in the cycle of abuse there is always the honeymoon phase when the abuser asks for forgiveness, promises to never do it again, and showers the victim with gifts. So, for many victims, the combination of the honeymoon phase, and the sense of helplessness and powerlessness to get away is too much. If you or her father really want to help, take her to a battered woman's shelter. But, of course, you can't do it against her will, and there's a good chance she'll fight you on that.
Before I knew that 80% of what she told me was a lie I worked with her to get her a GED. I paid for a teacher bought books and coached her for six or seven months. I met her parents and she had their support. The teacher I hired and I encouraged her at every step. I received a sorry story to begin with about her 5 year old child and how she had lost custody because of prison time in OK. The whole thing was a pack of lies. After Valentine's day I came to the conclusion that there was no redeaming value in her. Her father and I were talking last week and he told of the time in jr. hi she told a friend that she had to go through a kidney operation. Any how I still feel bad when some one beats a woman and she refuses do some thing about it.
Any number of reasons. I'm a provider in graduate school that has seen classmates go through domestic abuse, so the theory of it happening to the underpriveledged goes out the window. What I have learned in life is that you cannot help people who aren't ready to be helped. Eventually, she will be and she will be grateful to have you.
I now doubt my own ability to judge people and feel like shit. I would have gone to great lengths to get her started in a new life. I guess I feel like a fool to have believed I could change what can't be changed. I noticed that her posts now have some one writing them for her as they don't look like they were written by a forth grader.
Very well said!! Domestic abuse has NOTHING to do w/social standing, income, employment, how you were raised.... it's a mind-set in an individual. And when you feel you can't get away, or you're just staying for the kids, thinking it will get better or just always watching your step so you won't do anything that sets off his known triggers.. you just "learn" to put up with it, may even begin to feel like this is the "norm". As was stated above, "you can't help those who aren't ready to be helped". When she is ready, which may possibly be never, as some abuse victims just move onto another abusive relationship, as they don't know anything else, but when she's ready, she'll take the necessary steps. There will be one time, where instead of just "taking it", she'll get fed up... and all the other times will be compounded with this one, and she'll take action. The only problem is, will he let her leave? Many times it's easier to escape abusive relationships when the abuser finally goes to jail/prison for an extended amount of time, as that time by herself, to get her life together without him, is the key point... that she CAN survive without him!
.. a better question is why are you involved with someone who clearly has no sense of personal boundaries, has a pimp (even more so an abusive one), cannot supply her own living space, relies on her dad to house her and repair the damage the pimp did, apparently lies to you a lot and has interaction of such a chaotic manner with the police that a dog was provoked into biting one?
This post really says a lot more about you than it does about her.
No dog in this fight. But OP if you really care, then stand up and be ready for a fight or a beat down. You can make it look good, but make sure you have witness after witness that he was the aggressor. You were just trying to protect some pour girl. As for the father I would not care how far My daughter had stretched the rules that guy would not touch her another time. Ed we men do get involved sometimes with the not so perfect women. I would hope if you needed a hand in a difficult situation and one of us saw we could help that we would not question why we were there.
I have a conceal carry and always have a weapon but I am nonviolent. Her dad laughed when he was asked by the pimp not tohurt him. Her dad said his big worry was what I would do to him. If I were the violent type I would go collect the six gold teeth she bought him and make a necklace. Again I will say I am not the type to go that route. I am unable how any one would take that abuse and not do anything to prevent it happining again. She will continue on this path and he will kill her in time.
Lots of people are not-so-perfect (myself included), but there is a huge difference between that and someone who is just a total train wreck. I suppose everyone could have different definitions of each category but taking the facts presented, I'd find it hard to believe anyone could call this girl *just* not-so-perfect.
There is also a tremendous difference between someone who legitimately, through no fault of their own, finds themselves in a difficult spot and the OP's subject character. The former would be actively striving towards bettering their circumstances themselves and would be deserving of a "hand up". While the latter, like a dog, returns to it's vomit.
Enabling someone who has numerous choices yet continually makes the worst possible ones despite the obvious negative outcomes, repeatedly puts themselves in danger, refuses to protect themselves physically/emotionally and is a professional victim is NOT helping them. It's called enabling for a reason. "Helping" someone like this is hurting them more than anything else. Until they've reached their rock bottom or have some other similarly painful incentive, they don't change. The more you "help" them, the longer you prolong their sickness and victimhood.
The OP cannot "save" this girl so his continued patronage does nothing but embroil him in a very sick dynamic that he is powerless to change. What it is inside him that either makes it ok to do this, and to then wonder why abused women stay in their situations is why his post is very telling of his own mental/emotional state.
-- Modified on 4/14/2011 3:07:10 PM
So what exactly are you suggesting? that he remove himself & leave her on her own? I hope not. I find your replies to be incredibly arrogant, & judgmental at best & would recommend the OP dismiss your advice. "pfft" & to the OP. We need more caring folks such as yourself in this industry. My hat is off to you.
I have removed my self from any contact with her. I do talk to her parents every once in a while. Would I help her if she asked, I don't know. When we started I told her if she was truthful with me I would be the best friend she ever had. Well there was no truth and she wouldn't tell the truth now.
That is exactly what I'd suggest - perhaps, if he actually does care for her on some level, after leaving her with brochures from the local abused women's shelters. By maintaining contact with her, he implicitly provides approval/support for her situation. If a child is trafficked, should one not stop perpetuating the abuse by patronizing the victim and providing financial support to the trafficker? If a lady is pimped, in my estimation at least, it is the same thing. Also, as long as he provides the service of acting as an emotional tampon for her (letting her dump/vent about the situation and soaking up all her troubles), she can diffuse the emotional burdens she's carrying and not ever face the truth of her situation. It's the emotional equivalent of getting her just high enough so she never has to feel the pain of drug withdrawls, but without feeling that pain she has no impetus to change.
You are certainly allowed your feelings regarding my posts. I've simply been through too much of life (and have had my share of issues to address sitting in a therapists' office) to feel any differently.
Some people simply can't be helped, and the best the OP can hope for is to become a simple enabler, ar worst someone (possibly the OP) will end up dead or in prison and the girl will move on to the next loser pimp and the story will resume with a new villian and a new hero.
There is no winning in this situation, the OP has done to much already, time to cut his losses and move on with his life, if he actually has one. Anyone who gets this deeply involved in someone else's life, most likely doesn't have much of a life of his own.
You can't help those that will not help themselves. People in order to change must reach a point where things are so bad that they wake up and start to rebuild themselves. Until that point is reached there is no helping them. Sometimes it is sad to say some people never reach that point.
I should know I have reached rock bottom twice in my life. There was no helping me until I was ready to change who I was. Only then was I really receptive and ready to be helped.
In fact someone trying to help the lady in the OP could be hurting her in the long run as they could slow or prevent her decline into the point where she will want to change until perhaps it is to late. The OP should walk away and cut her off as he can not help and he will likely get hurt if he does not. It really is the compassionate thing to do as by staying he could prevent her from needing to change until it is to late.
I feel for the OP as I have had to cut my losses on some I was trying to help. It hurts to admit you cannot help when you really want to. The truth is not everyone is ready to be helped. I have learned this the hard way.
agree 100%
i was also in a similar situation with a provider (i actually thought that was who you were talking about). we got very close actually met/spoke with her family through the girls own invitations. I would say that girl is a complete train wreck. she knows exactly what can be done, has ample opportunity, her mother is there to support/give her opportunity financially as she owns her own successful business where she was given a job for a brief time, before she left. welcomed to live with her while she was pregnant, with her bf. but something about having people support her and wanting and hoping she does better, cares about her, just does not sit right with her. for a while i was an enabler. eventually it became very clear she was a borderline sociopath, played the victims role very well, said whatever came to mind, as long as it made her look good to the person she was telling it to. people like that you just have to sever all ties with, as she was becoming like a cancer, because i allowed it, as it became much to much to deal with a person who was a complete and utter train wreck. needless to say, she is back at work doing something she supposedly hates(her words) although who knows, practically everything that spewed out of her mouth was a lie. but the op post is spot on with what i encountered, almost word for word. so she does what she has to to support herself, her bf/pimp, and her baby. people like this do just make you sad when you inadvertently get close to them, cause, at least for me, i wish there was something i could do to help them, but you can't help someone who doesn't wanna help themselves. I avoid getting close to anyone in this lifestyle anymore after that happened. sometimes ignorance is bliss.
There is also a tremendous difference between someone who legitimately, through no fault of their own, finds themselves in a difficult spot and the OP's subject character. The former would be actively striving towards bettering their circumstances themselves and would be deserving of a "hand up". While the latter, like a dog, returns to it's vomit.
Enabling someone who has numerous choices yet continually makes the worst possible ones despite the obvious negative outcomes, repeatedly puts themselves in danger, refuses to protect themselves physically/emotionally and is a professional victim is NOT helping them. It's called enabling for a reason. "Helping" someone like this is hurting them more than anything else. Until they've reached their rock bottom or have some other similarly painful incentive, they don't change. The more you "help" them, the longer you prolong their sickness and victimhood.
The OP cannot "save" this girl so his continued patronage does nothing but embroil him in a very sick dynamic that he is powerless to change. What it is inside him that either makes it ok to do this, and to then wonder why abused women stay in their situations is why his post is very telling of his own mental/emotional state.
-- Modified on 4/14/2011 3:07:10 PM
And I don't own a gun, like the OP. Bottle of whiskey will do just fine, if at all needed.
In any case, if this was a lady I cared about. And her father wouldn't, or couldn't, protect his daughter as much as he would like? I'd beat that goddam piece of shit down. Bad.
Wouldn't be the first time. Though, a pimp would be a first. 
I was taken in by her lies. I was raised to help others and I fell for her line of shit. Yes I know I should have known better. I have discovered I was not the first and appears she now has another. After i recovered the car I allowed her to use she obtained a small yellow sports car to get to her tricks. The PU she bought her pimp blew up in Nashville on her way to Seattle. Yep I know Seattle is north west of here but neither one of them can read a map.
This post, along with the other that had more background info, is helpful. I'm sad that your good nature was taken for granted, disrespected and abused. Helping folks is always a good thing, but you just have to be *very* cognizant of the integrity of the person being helped. It's unfortunate that you seem to have lost a fair amount of time, money and emotional energy for someone like this but I do hope it's taught you the usefulness of that Reaganism... Trust, but verify.
As I read his post he is (a) concerned about the lady's well-being; (b) confused as to her motivation in staying with the abuser; and (c) seeking advice from as wide an audience as possible. No problems there that I can see.
He also has given her the best immediate advice there is for her protection – get a restraining order.
As to why he is involved with this lady, that is kind of a naïve question, isn’t it? None of these problems impact on him or his brief time with her. Don’t think the guys are seeking out well rounded, secure individuals anyway.
I’d reverse your insight – if he didn’t care, that would say more unfavorably about him than about her.
I don't happen to read concern in his post; to me it reads as a rather neutral relaying of the facts as he knows them. The confusion about her motivation, I do see... though 10 minutes spent in Psych 101 or watching Dateline/Oprah/Dr. Phil/numerous other shows would answer his question so I hardly see it as an an actual query. Seeking advice? I guess I should reread the post because I didn't see that. I saw the question about why women stay in abusive situations. He's already offered a very reasonable option if she were to ever choose to leave her situation... and she's refused to take it. What more reason does one need to put distance between themself and someone like this?
I'm surprised that you would think none of these things impact his time with her. He's here asking about it so obviously they've talked about it - that impacts the session, it's no longer a fantasy of HIS. He's apparently tried to help her problem solve her issues (restraining order) - that impacts the session, now he's taken on the solving of HER problems. He's spent time on his own thinking about her situation and posted here - now is it not only impacting the session but his PRIVATE TIME as well! And if she's pimped and has borne the marks of a physically abusive and aggressive one - does he not think that the pimp might come after him for trying to help the girl get away? That CERTAINLY would impact his "session", wouldn't it (not to mention potentially all the other areas of his life depending on how the pimp decided to go about it)?
There is a world of difference between not caring and caring but knowing when the situation isn't worth investing in. He's tried, she's lied. She's chosen to stay despite the risks to her well-being. Time to care from afar where he can't be dragged down into the cesspool of her choices.
Just my opinion, though.... and we all know what they say about those.
I have no fear of the gold toothed SOB in fact if he were to come in my house I would solve her problem with him. BUT she would go look for another SOB just like him. That is why I mentioned how her other pimps had dumped on her. She served time because the pimp put the credit card forgery stuff in there motel room. The police raided her room and she would have been guilty of nothing more than prostituion (30days). The cd of credit card information got her the year in prision with 10 years probation.
On some level she is still emotionally involved with her abuser.
Flip the story, even after 5 years of emotional abuse, I still had feelings for my ex. Even after I moved out, I still wanted her to love me back. It took a separation & good counciling for me to recognize that she had been acting out the whole time.
She needs an intervention... by her father. He can recruit as much help as he needs but her father should be the one to do this. Not you. It is much harder as an outsider with no standing. Perhaps a woman's shelter with counciling available would be a good resource.
As long as Dad looks the other way... he's part of the problem, not the answer. And Dad gets her an appartment... because he doesn't want her home. I lived in a concrete walled room under my Dad's garage... the other end of the house... So I was not (in my late 30's) in the vacant bedroom next to Mom & Dad (their choice). But I had shelter & 3 square. And I did get counciling.
She needs a physical separation from her abuser, counciling, for at least a couple of weeks. This will continue as long as she allows it (or he kills her). In the final take, a friend triggered the reaction that made me confront the situation & pack my things.
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I have not been there. I would only hope that I would try to help. Throwing money at the problem does not work it will only prolong it. Knowing the father would change things in my book. Team work, If its just a pimp one thing, If it is a pimp lover worse. But as a father hell has no fury worse, except that of a women
This is her third or forth pimp. One took off after she was caught with a home made credit card coming out of a Best Buye with a new TV that pimp went on to another girl that didn't have record. I am sure that the second one took off after he left a disc full of info to make his own credit cards on top of her computer in Oklahoma City in 2005. She took the fall for that one(one year). The next one left to go home and turned her over to the one she has now.
I think I know this girl. The really sad part is that she has been in the business for more than 10 years, has little to no money other than what is in her pocket from her last client. Her best earning years are quickly moving past her. What will she do with a felony and numerous misdemeanors on her record when she no longer possesses her cuteness or appeal in this profession? If it is the same girl I'm thinking of, I tried to help her too at her request and found out later that she was so full of lies that I quickly figured out I was being manipulated. I think she only lives in the present and the future to her doesn't extend past this week. I asked her why she was working for free and she didn't like that question. This pimp/boyfriend has never worked a real job. With his 6 or 7 gold teeth, there is only 1 job he is qualified for. I know it's the same girl because she is Little, she is a Miss rather than a Mrs, since she has never been married, although she will say she has and always claims to have kids. She is also full of Melodrama and will lie about things when it's not even necessary. The gold tooth pimp was the kicker though. This girl has no self esteem and she is lazy, just going for the easy money today.
Can you repost on the general board,general discussion?
I was looking at her latest pictures and she appears to have lost weight and aged since I last saw her in Feb. Talking to some one that knows her very well I was told she and the pimp are on "wet' now. Wet is grass soaked in imbalming fluid and will mess up your mind big time. I guess the stuff must make her very easy to handle by the gold toothed SOB.
Yeah, the domestic violence hamster wheel is very difficult for many to understand but it is very real and all too common. There are many reasons victims remain with abusers which are complex, many times rooted in childhood and usually having to do with self-esteem issues. It is also hard to break when it follows the pattern described in the original post. Victims will rationalise, blame themselves and cling to an abusive relationship when everyone else clearly sees their behavior for the insanity it obviously is to everyone else around them. Abusers are very good at manipulating victims and convincing them to return with all sorts of threats/promises.
Tell this lady she needs to get counseling. There are battered women's services in practically every city. Tell her if she doesn't do it, you are finished with her, otherwise you are going to be drawn into it somehow yourself. Want to be alone with her in a room when the pimp walks in and kills her? Try explaining what you were doing there to the police and then being told in order to avoid being prosecuted yourself, you will have to testify in the murder trial.
I think not. So what is the difference? is she might not be as cute as a dog? Does compassion not mean anything any more?
Unless they wanted to get kicked by someone else(me).
Your analogy is a little strange, but I get your meaning.
And yes, compassion does mean something. To me at least. Part of the reason I always get introuble.
Kicking a puppy would be more like it. She is 5 foot nothing 105lbs he is 5foot 9 and 165 lbs. Her dad said the police had been called so many times that they won't do any thing as they know she won't file charges. Perhaps Texsas needs a law that is in place in some other states. If the police are called and they see damage on the woman the guy goes to jail whether she files charges or not. There was enough trouble stirred up that he is taking her out of state. She is in Nashville tonight to get some money to get his pickup fixed.
Be kind to dumb animals comes to mind, except in this case she keeps finding a new pimp to abuse her. If someone abused their dog, I'd expect that the dog would be wise enough to try to escape the situation. Certainly the dog may not have the means to better its life and I in no way advocate violence against cute little puppies or their provider owners. It's just that it seems that the real issue in this case is that the lady seems content to continue being abused. There is only one person that can fix this problem and from what I'm hearing, she's not there yet.
they will never even try, because of loyalty and the momentary pleasure they receive in those few minutes throughout the day or week when they have a bone thrown to them, or get a pat on the head, or hear a "good dog."
abusive human relationships are not so very different. there are always those moments of peace before and after the storm. in addition it is highly irresponsible to advise a woman to simply "leave" an abusive relationship. statistics show that most of the women who are murdered by their abusive spouses/partners lose their lives in that period when they are leaving or have recently left. it is a highly risky and sensitive situation and no attempt should be made to leave without a well-formulated plan...and a name and address of a local women's shelter simply does not cut it.
i admire the OP for his concern, although it does sound like there is more to this story, that the woman in question may be more of a manipulator than a victim. the fact is there's just too much that we don't know to give sound advice in any direction.
and to do the work involved in changing her life, that is her decision and her consequence.
I wanted to bring this up to get others to explain WHY would any woman allow some one to abuse her and not get away from the one that hit her. She is still with the SOB and touring with him. The time I spent with her she showed me a bruse he left on her arm and I advised her to get a state wide restraining order. She said she did but as usual with her it was a lie. Her pimp remarked to her dad "I hope you won't come after me over this" I talk to her dad quite often and can believe him when she would lie when the truth sounds better.
The only way a therapist, worth his or her salt, could help her, is, on her very first appointment, drive her to the nearest battered woman's shelter.
Guys like you are dangerous! I can see it now! She's seeing you once a week, with a restraining order against her pimp boyfriend in her purse, and he comes back to her, she takes him in, or he breaks in, and kills her. Stick to your original career or just retire from it. Whoever it was, who you said you she be a therapist when you retire, was probably just humoring you by telling you what you wanted to hear.
Restraining Order Piece Of Paper is less than John Browning's 1911 .45ACP
I have had out to the range and she is a fair shot BUT she is a felon. If she were arrested with a pistol it would go hard on her. We went to church one Sunday and I put my Springfield under the seat. I for got it was there and she drove home with it in the car. If she had been stopped and searched it would violate her parole.