An established TER provider gave mine to one of her best friends, a guy who knows she's a provider, so he could FedEx a deposit refund to me for her.  Now she could've sent it herself using her business name, but according to her, she chose to not provide the documentation because it was too much of a huge headache for her to do.

and careless in not protecting your and his information.  

Deposit?
Real home info?
Since when does FedEx check the sender's ID? I've never been asked.  Same with USPS Express.  

As to why one should never give out their real info, including addresses

come up awhile back with someone else?
I remember reading it maybe over a year ago...??

YOU are the source of your own problem. True, she should never have given it to anyone else but....

Or are you just rehashing an old problem.

Unfortunately you don't have the excuse of being new to this, so if you are going to blame anyone, I think you need to start by looking in the mirror.  

Nick and GaG.  How did she have your address in the first place in order to give it to anyone?  Anytime I have a provider tell me she needs my address, I draw a line through her name and contact the next one on the list.  I don't want to see ANYONE bad enough to give out my personal info.  I have a dedicated email address for P4P, a burner phone number, and 2 provider references to give them. If that's not enough, have a nice day.

No, same problem. Just very recently received more clearer info which is what was posted.

I do regret trusting a provider, whose been in/out of the business for at least 20 years, with my info. That's on me. But I don't blame myself for her reckless actions which I had no control over considering I stressed that I wanted the most discreet way possible to return the deposit cash refund to me.

Well technically, whenever you provide your real full name and city/state from your ID, she'll have your address because her assistant performs an extensive background report on you which was not openly mentioned in 2016. She's more transparent now in her FAQs about both of those things. I was new back then, nervous about giving it, and would've never provided it if I knew that now.

"provide your real full name and city/state from your ID"

CDL eom.

As far as I'm concerned, this is an unforgivable breach of trust.  This lady should be named so that others can be warned not to provide their info to her.  Not only does she damage you, but she also damages every other lady out there who demands real info for their safety because incidents like this make it less likely guys will be willing to provide it.  

Given what you've said this wasn't cool.  The "how" you got your deposit back should have been agreed upon by both parties. I have real full names before I meet with a new gentleman. I would have never gotten a third party involved unless you okayed it.  

When I read this OP I thought I was reading an old thread because I know I have read the exact same thing before, and old threads always get revived here. When I realized it was a new thread, I started to search for the previous one but can’t find it, (and I’m usually pretty good at finding those old threads).  

It did come up a while back, but not with someone else. It was the same guy! See my link in a reply below.

-- Modified on 9/21/2020 2:55:47 PM

And you already named her then, and now you’re holding back?

Seems he likes to keep reliving the experience and never learns from it. Or perhaps it is all just BS.

Time for him to move past this for sure.

As I stated in another reply, I just very recently received greater clarification concerning those 2 items which I posted about. The January post WASN'T a public one.

No communication or agreement about using 3rd party. 1st email was “I tried on Sunday, but FedEx gave me a hard time. I should get it done tomorrow.” Now I know what the “hard time" was. 2nd email 3 days later was “I had someone else send it for me. Here's the tracking number.” Now I know who the “someone else” was.

name only.  No one can track me down from the limited info I described.  Like I said, if that's not enough, I move on.  First name and burner cell phone, that's all any provider or agency gets out of me.  The dedicated email is only used if that is the only way to make first contact.

Are you saying that you have known her since 2016 and you are STILL sending her deposits to book appointments???

Maybe it did happen once every three months and he's hoping for a different outcome?

I might be incorrect since I don't post much, but isn't publicly mentioning that a post from a private area even exists, let alone any specifics about it, a violation of the site rules.

The deposits were for 6hr and 8hr extended dates only which seemed fair.

If I've known and seen a girl for three or four years and even for a long visit she is asking for a deposit I am thinking something is wrong. Does she think YOU are that unreliable or is SHE just that . . . I'm not even sure what adjective to use.

If the date went through would the guy be in the room? wtf Why would she have a 3rd party involved.  Bad business. She sounds, like a poor provider. Lack of professional courtesy. I had to refund a deposit & I did it on my own because I run my own business. 100% independent over here, and I do not share personal information with anyone. No respect.

that you keep adding details that you already knew to try to justify your stupidity that were intentionally left out of your OP.  This is your third go-around on this topic.  Why didn't you ever mention these details before?  You're starting to make yourself look like a troll.  If you're the timewaster with her that you are with us, no wonder she wants to see you only with a deposit.  If you want help from the board, how about giving all of the details up front so we can give you our BEST answers?  Is there anything else relevant that you have not disclosed yet?

you are scaring her in some way and she is trying to hint to you that someone else knows you exist.

I have to agree with both Court and CDL here. You obviously haven't been telling us the full story, you keep giving it to us piecemeal as we call bullshit on the parts you have given us.

So let's do this, shall we?

I'm not piecemealing anything. I provided clarification to people's questions which appears to be misinterpreted.  

Yes, he was.

In the interests of full disclosure I need to preface this with stating that I had attempted to book with Debra Hollander a few years back when she was visiting my city.

I have since shared the real details of this situation with my BFF. He is OK with it.

May I ask a question then?

Eastsider always wants to be right, huh?  Such a whiner, like on the old SNL.

I now have it on my website that any deposits will be returned only in the way they are received. I will no longer make any exceptions to that, no matter how frightened I am, or how nice I am trying to be.

Regardless of the reason, she had NO business giving his personal info to a third party. I have no doubt most of he ladies will disagree and the buttsucker men will say it was ok.

You were worried about your personal info getting leaked... but were seemingly OK with entrusting third parties with other people's personal info that is supposed to be confidential ? And it's apparently OK because he does not have a common name? What if he had a real uncommon name? There are classes out there that teach about pii practices, I think every provider should take some.  

Great post.  And thanks to Debra for the step-by-step illustration of why a client should never give real world info. to a provider.   If a provider "demands" it, walk away whether you perceive her as the once in a life time opportunity or just someone like Debra.  It isn't worth it.

You both make this way too complicated.   Your explanations seem a little flaky, internally inconsistent, and too complicated.  Of course the lady is going to say that the guy displayed stalker behaviors and attempt to engender sympathy.  Who knows.  Seems like a loop of retaliation and all that both parties have done here is made it clear that they should both be avoided.

-- Modified on 9/23/2020 10:30:24 AM

I guess I am old fashioned, but it blows my mind this is being tried in the court of public TER opinion.  Somethings just are not for public discussion with folks who do not know all the facts.  IMHO this is a private matter.

We aren't mind readers, if you meant ONE "deposit" you shouldn't have not only used the plural form of the word, you also should not have said "6 hr AND 8 hr dates" (CAPS added for emphasis)  

I visited Debra a while back when I was driving cross country and transiting through Chicago.  I also had booked her a few weeks ago for her Minnesota tour that was unfortunately cancelled due to her dental medical emergency.  I can attest to her professionalism at all stages of our interactions.

That said, at least if you happen to "disappear" in the near future, your BFF will have the name of the person the cops need to talk to first. lol

You bring up an interesting point.

Not about being indiscreet, or about being BSC, or even about the fact that most other hookers would have blasted him all over social media.  

You found my personal Twitter. It was discussed during a date. How can I look at your personal Twitter when you deleted it 1yr ago because another client found it (not 1st client to do so) and spooked you with one of his comments? Your personal Twitter NEVER revealed any of your real info.  

You are a crude, foul-mouthed, man-whoring asshole..... who is generally fair-minded and has been ever-so-slightly-yet-very-publicly NICE to me.    

The ladies just know. I could literally feel him getting turned on while reading the OP. Yuck.

Yes seems way too complicated! Sounds like both had a hand in how cards were dealt.  

Agree

We’ll see what they think.  
Personally I don’t think I have violated the rules because all I did was pointed out that a post existed, AFTER you made it public. I gave no specifics of the thread and even though I posted a link, only people with access to that private board can read it.

The bottom line is you’re bringing up an old accusation. Write all the excuses and explanations and denials you want, and you still come out of this situation as the creepy stalker with anger issues.

way to make sure this doesn't happen again with someone else. Who knows, it might even happen with this guy AGAIN . . . .  not!!!

If she passed out personal info. hard to think she wouldn't do it again if she determined it was "justified."  I would (and do) stay away from anyone who is looking for real world info.  It simply isn't worth the risk.

This is exactly how I look at it.

Agree 100 percent

Yes, OP's information COULD have been seen by someone else but my BFF has zero interest and did not look at it.

the sender of the PM posted the contents of his PM to me on the board in order to get a broader feedback from the membership.  After that, I was free to discuss it.  No harm, no foul.  If he posted my reply, that would be a violation IF I reported it, which I probably wouldn't have.    

-- Modified on 9/24/2020 6:09:10 AM

Glad something constructive came out of this experience.

of cyberstalking. She has NEVER EVER accused me of such in all of our past correspondence which ended a couple of weeks ago.

I mean come one here.  Your vilification email lacks addressing why you wouldn't accept the more simple first solution that she proposed.

Debra is allowed 1 final rebuttal (she appears to have waived that right) and you are allowed 24 hours to provide any supporting exhibits, expert testimony, and/or character witnesses before the TER jury begins deliberations.  A verdict will be reached shortly thereafter.

It won’t take long to deliberate. The OP loses in a landslide. Not much he could say to change my mind.

As far I see the picture is clear

Alternately:  Provider attempted to accommodate a request for returning funds in a manner differently than how it was rendered.  Thus proving no good deed goes unpunished.
.
Also proving once again that provider engagement on TER is counter-productive.

Eastside70,  when will you let this go?  It's been 10 months since this happened.  

Many of the ladies have gotten to see the OP's true colors, I suspect he is on many more DNS lists today than he was just a few days ago, AND it's a reminder to the guys that your personal information is not guarded as zealously as many of you expect it is even among the best and most reputable of providers, and that if your life can be ruined if if were to be made public that you patronize prostitutes, you might want to rethink caving into provider demands that you provide them with blackmail information against you.

Anybody who has looked at this particular provider's website knows she has an assistant.  If they still think only the provider has the client info, they need to improve their reading comprehension.

It's a well known fact that a LOT of people have the reading comprehension of a five year old, a five year old houseplant that is.

eastside70 is now given the opportunity to cross-examine the witness testimony and present closing arguments.  

Very funny!  LOL

I do recall "BSC Twitter OTHFBs" vs "henpecked Z" but there was hardly a "ruling" on that case. it was more of a case of public flogging of a BSU who "dared" to act like he had an intact nut sack, even if it was only for a moment. He quickly realized the error of his ways and came back to grovel for forgiveness from the OTHFBC that he had offended so deeply, but to no avail. They made an example of what happens to anyone who dares have an independent thought.

As few others have stated. Who knows what the truth is to the situation? Both have mentioned their cases & just from life experience in this I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle??

I don't get it. Someone explain it to me. Is it because of bunch of he saids or she saids?

I've actually been outed before, ok more than once, but the last time I was outed, and I don't mean an innocent or careless handling of my personal information, but a full fledged (failed) attempt to ruin my fucking life by a BSC hooker right here on TER as many people here will remember.

Yeah man, you should probably just let it go at this point. If it's been 10 months, and no strangers have come knocking on your door, and no one is trying to extort or blackmail you....its done. Youre just making yourself look bad, and it can't help your case with any future providers by going on and on about it.

OK, I see your point.  

and the first time I was outed it was NOT by a hooker, it was by a fellow monger who didn't like what I had to say on the discussion boards. Truth be told I have NEVER been outed by a hooker that I have had a session with.  

I am a provider and Assistant.  I don't need the OP stalking me too.   So instead of posting under my real handle I used the Asst Alias.

Not siding with anyone on this as it sounds like a total train wreck. But you have to admit the hypocritical double standard IF a client did this with a provider what this would stir up & rightfully so. Goes both ways. It's beyond messed up ALL around & further illustrates why alot of others refuse to jump through hoops to these levels around for any of this.  

I don't need no cross examination. I am siding wit Debra on this.

Try asking any hooker you don't know REALLY well for the slightest bit of HER personal information and see where it gets you, so yes I agree about the "hypocritical double standard"  Of course, come to think of it I do know the real names of quite a few hookers I know, but I am sure I am the exception not the rule. Hookers tend to trust me with this kind of information much more than most tricks in large part, not that I am so trustworthy, but because I care so little about what I call them I am likely to forget anything they tell me "in confidence" by the next morning. lol

even when I would have preferred not to have it.   It strikes me that some gals are perhaps so lonely, that they love to share every intimate detail of their lives with a stranger, which I am sure often ends up being problematic for them at some point.  In most cases, these were gals who worked right from their home, so you knew their address and their real name was right there on the mailbox/buzzer.

Oddly I had a "M&G" with a couple of girls from a new (and higher priced) agency in Atlanta several years ago that turned into an OTC overnight session with one of the girls. She had an entire duffle filled with every psychoactive, psychotropic and antipsychotic drug under the sun, and yeah her and I ended up getting very close too. You know what they say about the crazy ones. I later found out that she had been "involuntarily committed" several times, she ended up being too crazy even for me, but she was one of the hottest women I have ever been with, especially when she was "on" She was way past being manic, but she was similar to someone manic depressive, only on steroids, when she was "ON" she was a star that you could take anywhere, but when that switch would flip... I will put it this way, it took her three hours to find her way out of the airport one day after her plane landed.  

Chit chat is going to center around whatever is going on in people's lives.  It's going to be the same as any civie interaction.  People talk about what they are thinking about.  

I couldve sworn you called some hooker a bitch for outing you. Maybe I misread your post. Or maybe you did not have a session with her.

You are right it is a maze and if you have less than 45 minutes between connecting domestic and international flights you can be in big trouble trying to get across that maze.

Like GaG, I have lots of providers names because I primarily do outcall, and I live in a high security community and building here in Vegas. So if a provider wants my money she has to give me her real name so I can give her name to the guard gate and building concierge who will check her ID. The downside is that I have to give them my real name and address as well. Since I’m not married and retired that’s not a major concern for me.

I think it was more along the lines of calling her a CUNT. lol

I don't really see what you being friends with her has to do with anything, really.  

Normally giving out any personal information to ANYONE would be a first degree felony IMO> But in this case, I think there is a lot of blame to go around and I would call her transgression more of a misdemeanor than a felony.  

After much deliberation, the jury has reached a decision.  These sorts of cases usually follow the following pattern/precedence:

What comment did you want ? I'm not really sure how it happened, because I'd think it'd be tough for someone to out a person without any info, but it hardly seems implausible.

that you were not nominated for The Supreme Court yesterday or this string would continue endlessly.

And I get, the nuance here is that you kinda know her and believe her.

I have to disagree with your "finding #1".  I have seen plenty of guys become attached to a particular provider after just two hours, either together or as two one-hour sessions.  For those men that confuse feel-good endorphins from sex with love, this is a continuing problem for them, usually with whoever the girl du jour is.  Oftentimes, they will be BL'd by one girl only to "fall in love" with the next girl they see.  Cold-turkey is the way to get them out of it, not tapering off or limiting the number of sessions.

but that said, you are much more right than wrong on this. Especially the part you "borrowed" from me about the "mitigating factors that reduce this from a felony down to a misdemeanor"

A great precedent to set for Debra to continue giving out real info at her leisure. I guess being Ms TER, a title she should be stripped of, has its advantages.  

You need some Midol, or switch your tampons buddy.  Nobody here is interested in your continued rants and machinations.  Nor are we sorry that you are smitten and sulking.

I, for once, never condoned what she did. Regardless of your and her bickering, she put a persons info in the hands of a third party, and there are no excuses for that.

Drake did the right thing an reached out via back channels to apologize.  All good!

-- Modified on 10/8/2020 7:51:04 PM

C’mon dude.  Let it go.  Most agree that she shouldn’t have shared your name.  I STRONGLY agree with that.
But that point has been made.  You can’t make that case any stronger.
However, the case against you as someone who is a little unhinged... the evidence for that is honestly growing with each post IMO.  Just chalk this all up as a learning experience and move on.  And the lesson itself is just that - move on.  Life is too short to get hung up on things like this.

Agreed....let it goooo!!!

She would post your personal info on twitter

because as they say once you give it out you have no control over it. Cut your loss and never look back! Consider the deposit as the price of your privacy!

Wrong thread? Wrong board?

A lot of people started suggesting just what personal information was given out. What seems to be the case, if we take Deb at face value, is that a name was used and the location of some FexEx pick-up point that presumably is not too inconvenient for the OP.

I agree and I should have checked! Why are so many posts? Just a waste of time ...

It really does not matter whether or not his name is common and whether or not he's from a small town.

I would send a dollar so you could buy a fucking clue but then you'd have to give me information I would prefer living my entire live without ever hearing.

Agreed, totally worthless and unproductive thread.  Isn't the hobby supposed to avoid this sort of drama?  If I was Deborah I would have done a face-to-face visit and handed the asshole his money in a box with a dead rat.

I have been reading the thread just fine, Jensen. I've read all the he said and she said stuff. I trust neither.  
The part about him stalking the girl is part of "he said she said".  

If you don't cool your Jets Rocketman, everyone will know that you are on the Bennie's.

Many providers have an assistant or a booker or even a BFF (either male or female) who might end up seeing your info.  

But unfortunately it is a hot-button item and people do tend to react rather than pause and consider just with is being said. PI is a legitimate concern and how it is treated by those who are trusted with it does matter.  

I will give oxygen to whatever the fuck I want on this board. Got it?  

now you are an accountant drawing bottom lines.

Eastsider and Rocketman are two losers...Argumentative bullies.

I have several reviews, but apparently you don't know  how to view them. Shame.  

Hence why it's a double standard - imagine what would happen if I got a hooker's real info and shared it with MY BFF or assistant.

and just like if one of my hooker friends had ask me to do the very same thing, I wouldn't have glanced twice at the name on the label except to make sure it matched the name and address I had been given.

Didn't we establish, as they say in the law, failure to demonstrate willful intent?

Not really an ad hominen as he was describing what you do and letting you know how a lot of people view those who use an alias all the time.

TER has many tools to stop this wasteful exercise...  I wrote to the mods who didn't think that this diseased post had run its course.

WE may have...

Idk GaGa....the way he's going on and on about it makes me want to see Debra....
That must be some magical stuff!🤣

This is an absolutely, 100%  textbook ad hominem attack. LOL at you saying otherwise.
He attacked my character and profile because he did not like the content of my post. Ironically, it turned out it is he who is not well-versed in TER to actually check my reviews.

Unfortunately it still is... If anything this train wreck should be a sticky as a learning lesson for both clients and providers alike. IMO

Pretty good assessment Mr rockon !

You should look yourself in the mirror first then blame others

and is exploding on twitter about this.  

You're a real funny fuck. Another chicken shit simp using an alias. Seems like you can't let it go which is why YOU'RE resurrecting this thread, not me. Do I have a stalker now?

For not “letting it go” and stalking.

But please let's hope he doesn't get banned from TER, I know Deb might disagree, but I enjoy laughing at this dweeb.

to gain from this from taking it to Twitter? Don’t you think enough time has passed? Not a good look, but if you’re intentionally harassing her, you should stop now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can banned from p411 for complaining on Twitter about a situation where the provider admitted her wrongdoing.

Tagging this provider, when even after (as you mentioned) she admitted her part. This happened 9 MONTHS AGO!

Well, I stand corrected if it's enough grounds to ban. Thanks for clarification.

First mention was Jan 2020. When this particular thread came out, it was already 9 months old. And this thread is now 3 months old. He should have let it go a looong time ago!

But I am willing to bet that if Gina was still running things he'd be toast by now.

And they're real (well, probably not) and they're spectacular.

A second that observation.  A premium rack.