You find a great provider.  Friendly, does everything right, treats you like a king, even lets you stay past the hour.  Next time same thing.After the 10th time, the "fantastic" massage has atrophied into a five-minute finger-tip drag, the BJ/nut-suck lasts about as long and the sex is like doing your wife.  And the 90+ minutes you used to spend has shrunk to a half-hour.  She's still nice, but . . .WHAT HAPPENED???I've experienced this phenomenon more than once.  Must be my endearing personality (or lack thereof).  Please tell me I'm not alone.

Not always contempt but sometimes it kills passion and blunts the "edge" that is the difference between lust and routine. There are five women that I have seen more then six times since I came back to this hobby two years ago. One just retired and one is semi-retired. They never changed. The one that just retired turned out to be more of a GFE then most of the girlfriends I have had. The other three I do not see anymore and one of the reasons, at least for two of them, is exactly what you have just described. In fairness it takes two people to remain creative, and communication and honesty are also important.(Not always atributes of the standard client/provider relationship.)One thing that a friend of mine in the hobby told me not so long ago was that the hobby at its best was similar to playing high stakes poker. To reach the best experiences, and bring the best out of your partner you have to be willing to gamble with your "chips". It made sense when he told me and it still holds true for me today. Lead with your best everytime and realize that even with that you will have losses. But when you win.......

You're not alone.  I posted the same thing elsewhere on this board.  You make a new friend, which is great, but in the process end up with more talking (not necessarily a bad thing), but less sex.  I've seen the same provider for three years and we might as well be married.  I take her to the airport, fix her car computer etc.  We're really close friends now, which is great in itself, but the sex is almost an afterthought before she leaves.  If I think back to the first time there's no comparison- it's the difference between a lap dance and a handshake.Still, I must like the familiarity and the comfort it brings, because it has been three years with no end in sight.

No matter how you cut it, it's a relationship.  She's going to follow your lead, and if the lead is the same chopped liver then, it's going to taste the same.  Like chopped liver.Don't meet at the same place.  If at all possible mix it up with a more romantic setting, a room over looking the beach.  Meet for dinner in a nice quiet dark cafe.Treat her more like a first date, rather than the old lady.  That's why when I make a Vegas run, I bring up one of the regulars, rather than use local talent.  It's a treat for her, and it says that I care for her.  Yes, it costs more, but in reality it's just a few hands of Black Jack. (Especialy the way I've been losing, in fact I'm saving money because I'm not on the tables)  The mileage goes along way when you treat the lady to some room service under candle light, with a jacuzzi, and the whole evening to play.Don't get me wrong, I realize that in a lot of cases there's a  S/O envolved, so my dream world may sound good but is a lot harder in reality.  But, if you squirl away a few Benjamins for maybe that quarterly rendezvous, who knows what it might do to inspire the lady, on your regular visits.JMHOG.

Couldn't agree more... it takes two to stoke the fire.  But I think one of the reasons we get "bored" with a SO or a familiar f*** is cuz we don't "see" them anymore.  We're not connecting on a very deep level... they've become familiar but not a "now" experience.When I kiss, I keep my eyes open.  That way I can still see the person.  Many times the other person literally "morphs" in front of my eyes... they look like an angel, or someone from another planet (no! I'm not on anything! ), or like.. well, god!  That's so big... how could one get bored with that?  And for those clients who are special, some kind of version like this occurs.We're not taught love making as an art form in this culture.  Most of us really don't have a clue.  We don't know how to "run the energy," we don't know how to connect on a deeper level (I suspect that's fear of intimacy as well as not knowing love making techniques, beyond the "three things" we've used all along...).New experiences are great!  They're fun and different!  But my best lovemaking experiences took place with a lover that I got to know, relax around and go to deeper levels with.  Now that was some kind of love making!  xoxox Faye Desiree

relationship can stay in the same place for very long.  It grows and changes or it stagnates (which is a kind of death).  This is a serious problem with a SO, but it can also be a problem in other relationships including those with providers.  In fact, because of the cost of maintaining a relationship with a provider I think we are very quick to notice it when the zest starts to decline.I think that when you see a provider and have a really great experience that it is easy to fall into the trap of wanting to repeat the experience.  It doesn't take long for it to become stale.  As intuitive said in another thread the passion will ultimately go out of any relationship.  And in the long run we are all dead too.  I think our goal is to maintain the passion and live as fully and as long as possible.I don't think you should see a provider with the goal of repeating the last visit.  Try to introduce something (however small) that is new and exciting to both of you to keep the relationship fresh.  In racing terms, "push the envelope."  You can crash and burn doing that too, of course.  The trick in racing is to not go so far beyond the limits that you can't recover.Ok, I have a concrete example.  I'm one of the guys who really enjoys Christy Spice.  She uses a body massager type vibrator on herself and you.  Last time I saw Christy I asked her where she bought the vibrator.  I went out and bought one.  (She has good taste in vibrators.  It was an expensive toy.)  Tonight I saw a provider I had not seen in about a year.  Since she had never done anything in our sessions remotely like Christy does, I brought the vibrator along.  She had a ball.  I had a ball. It was totally unlike anything we had done together before.  It was totally unlike the way Christy uses a vibrator too, but who cares.  It was new and it was fun.  I ended up giving the lady the vibrator.  Hey, it doesn't do much for me by itself.  I don't tip, but I enjoy giving a gift if it is something that I think the lady will really like and enjoy.Be creative.  Make her feel special.  (She is special, isn't she?  If she isn't why are you repeating?)  These are sexy ladies.  Push the envelope, but be sensitive to her reaction.  If you push too hard or in the wrong direction you will be able to tell.  Forget you are paying for her time and do your best to make sure she forgets.These are the things I think I've learned.  Faye, Laurel, Intuitive, (or any other lady) if I've seriously missed the mark I would appreciate any advice that you would care to give me.  There is always room to learn and improve and I certainly don't mean to imply that I know it all or even expect to know it all in this lifetime.

Like most here have said, our relationships are like any other. The difference I think is that alot of hobbyists want to try harder with their provider than with their significant other. I have one friend I have seen for a few months now, and on the weekend he gave me a coffee table book about Claude Monet's Paintings and where he got his landscapes from. It's a beautiful book and I realized that he understood that I chose my name for a reason. I love Monet and what his paintings do for me ( I find them calming and hypnotic). It also told me that he thinks about me and what I would like. In reverse, I have done this for my clients. A suprise gift out of the blue. I enjoy doing it and seeing the look of suprise, especially if it is something that they know I had to remember that they like.I see our relationships more like courting. You know, when you first meet someone and it is new and exciting, but the difference is that we ( as providers), have to keep that momentum going. Some men are good at being creative and thinking up new things to do, a lot are not. That's where we come in. But it works out pretty well, beacuse I find most men are very happy ( and relieved) to let us think up new and improved things to do. And I also think that when appreciation is shown to a provider to say "thanks for doing what you do", this is excellent motivation for her Want to make you happy

I have noted that the connecting with those I see more than once goes to a deeper level. We are comfortable, but not so comfortable that the passion is not there. In fact, it increases over time for the very reason that the intimacy of the connection has intensified. At the same time, a little "courting" as Monet put it, I think, has its pluses for both parties. Mathsesar was right on too. Variety at a slow pace. Introducing a new toy, new setting, another peice of lingerie...Having a drink together at a nice resturaunt, anything to change the pace and add variety.Now as for seeing many different people, well, variety is the spice of life too. However, some wines are meant to be savored again and again, glass after glass...Nicole Of Southern California

Going back a couple of years I started with what I would term a wide circle of ladies that I saw, chosen by website and looking at other hobbyist reviews, but over time the circle started to get smaller with the ladies that there was some sort of connection with becoming repeat visits.(I still think the most under appreciated sexual organ is the mind) And there is no doubt that in particular around the third or fourth visit the intensity increases at its highest level. After that I think you,( both parties), need to want it to either grow or move on. I wish more providers felt the same way about interaction and intimacy that it appears that you and Faye do- but I have not found that to be the norm. As long as both parties understand the difference between putting your toes right on the line, but not crossing the line, repeat visits and interaction I find much more satisfying then only one time visits- although a few exploratory missions for variety never hurts either ;~D

be applied much more often to one's own partner before the passion dies. I think it would be very difficult to rekindle the flames after they are extinguished. My SO and I, after 30 years and two kids, still make weekly "dates" to see each other(in our college days it used to be daily dates). We treat EVERY single holiday(including New Years, July 4, Labor day, etc.)as a very very special occasion. The benefit of all this is the passion still lives! The downside is just about every experience I have had with other ladies is a disappointment. However, that has never stopped me to try and find that someone who can equal the pleasure that I receive from her. I guess I always have been turned on by a challenge, whether it be mountain climbing or seeing if someone can give me better head. The both of us have always been wanderers, and that will probably continue to go on for a while longer. In some weird way it helps us appreciate each other that much more. I guess we have always believed in the Crosby, Stills and Nash lyrics of "love the one your with."

Getting  in  good  with  a  provider  is  a  bonus.   You  appreciate  how  everything  you  are  looking  for  on  every  visit  is  accomplished  and  can't  wait  until  the  next  visit.   I  have  such  a  "relationship"  right  now  -  been  seeing  this  provider  for  six  months.   At  first  it  was  2 - 3  times  a  week,  now  it's  once  a  week.   It  is  a  great  time  every  time,  but  now  I  sometimes  I  see  this  provider  and  we  never  get  to  any  action.   I  sometimes  pick  her  up  from  her  regular  job.   I  am  now  beginning  to  think  of  ways  to  spice  up  our  visits.   One  interesting  thing  is  that  I  am  only  check  eroticreviewer.com  for  other  encounters,   I  have  stopped  looking  at  the  other  regulars  site  because  of  I  do  not  have  the  time  to  go  out  for  a  visit  and  not  get  everything  that  I  looking  for.   I  have  posted  many  reviews  and  am  always  hoping  to  pass  on  good  info,  but  this  one  provider  I  have  never  reviewed  and  she  she  is  not  seeing  others  because  of  the  good  regular  job.   Hope  others  are  able  to  make  a  contact  like  this.

more power to you, player.  Seems like you have the relationship part of life almost figured out...the weekly dates with the wife is important.......however, i'm curious to know what is the secret behind establishing the raport with a provider so that you can be a part of their lives?  Some of you guys have it so good yet you complain.  Why? Why? It's not always about the sex...because that's the easy part.

my apologies, i was trying to address several posts in one statement.  I must say that being aroused and the consequent quality of gratification has to do with what the vision of your woman is.  That may be based on beauty,personality, technique, the way she looks at you etc.  May be you just have to find out what else excites you.  But i can't believe with the quanity of quality providers out, there aren't a few who can click with you.  This is a good forum to find out.  Just say what you're looking for and other hobbiest will gladly make recommndations, useful or not, you'll have to find out.  Again, sorry about miscommunicating.--modified by thehung1 at Tue, Apr 03, 2001, 18:57:14

Yes, Mathesar.. as always you speak wise words. Int.

Great thread... I find with some regulars I am challenged, after repetitive visits,  to add new ideas to the session. Sometimes you reach a comfort zone when you feel you can  relax, let down a little.. .maybe too much? Might be that it is true that we take loyal regulars for granted sometimes.(like old friends?)The reverse is true too, as often times regulars want extra time and privaledges and the anty gets upped to the point that you can't always oblige.So leave expectations at home.. be spontaneous.. have a few tricks up your sleeve sometimes too.  Passion is like a wave.. it rises and falls.. ride it... Int.--modified by intuitive at Tue, Apr 03, 2001, 22:35:58

This is one of the saddest, most pathetic threads I have ever read.  Guys, if the service falls off even a little bit, get the hell out.  In my opinion, you should be paying for hot sex with a gorgeous woman.  Where does it say the guy should supply the heat and fire? When you go to the restaurant, do you help with the recipe, do you bus the tables, wash the dishes? If you show up on time, with the correct change, and April fresh, you have done your job. Case Closed. Anytime you pay for friendship and intimacy, know that it is fake, a clever disguise, an empty facade.

That's ante, I think that you are upping-   a word we only use for betting and this use, so you get no points taken away!

I must honestly admit, that I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to become a part of another lady's life. So in fairness, I can't really respond to that part of your post. I guess if I truly wanted(or needed)that type of relationship, I would not seek out a professional lady, but instead probably would opt to have an affair. However, I don't believe in affairs, as I see them to be the beginning of the end to a marriage. I don't think your post could possibly be referring to me, as I have never complained about maintaining a very limited role with a lady. In fact, I pay quite a bit to ensure it is kept exactly that way. Contrary to what you wrote, for me, it is stictly about the sex. I disagree that is the easy part. I have only found one lady who was better than my SO, and we ended up seeing each other on a regular basis for nearly 10 years. For me at least, to find that one lady that I can REALLY REALLY click with in bed is extremely rare. I am still somewhat surprised/disappointed by that, especially when you take into consideration my long involvement with this particular type of vocation. I guess it probably has to do more with how two people flow together in bed, rather than a particular individual's technical expertise(or lack thereof). If the sex part comes easy for you, I think you are extremely lucky. I have no doubt that you will also be able to work through the rapport part. Good luck.

for phrasing exactly how it is, in such a way, that it actually made me laugh out loud. I don't know if it was your intent to mix such wisdom with humor, but at the end of a difficult day that is how I interpreted it. Thank you very much again.

Sorry papercup can't help you much..... I am a one timer.... slam, bam,ye-ha and out....next.

It is sad when a good thing goes south.  I agree, time to move on. And I have.  As for the rest, it is what you make it, whether at a restaurant or at a provider's apartment.  Restaurants are more fun when you're friends with the "help,"  same thing holds true for hobbying.  Sure, you can say in a Schwarzennegger/Terminator voice, "I paid for admission, now you entertain me, ja?"  But the reward will just be mechanical too.  Believe it or not, I used to be a strictly "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" type of hobbyist.  I started in the streets, worked up through MP's to incall, and I've seen a lot.  I never thought I'd get sucked into anything more complicated than "how much for a blow job?"  Now here I am, doing incall and enjoying the friendships, real or imagined, as much as the sex itself.  I now walk away after spending $200+ feeling absolutely great, when I used to swear I'd never do it again (for awhile, anyway), after spending only $20 for a weak BJ in a parked car from a surly streetwalker.  I still got off, but the experience sure as hell was different.  Just my thoughts, and thanks for yours.

--

I think we have a major difference of opinion based on whether you view providers as real women or just attractively packaged body parts made available for your pleasure. Most of the people on this thread either through experience, or mindset seem to realize that these are real women complete with normal human emotions, strengths and weaknesses.  Like any other human interaction, the quality of the relationship is enhanced by getting to know them as people. This reality is unchanged whether you are paying them for their time and services, or whether you met them in the grocery store as friends.You're not renting a car from Hertz.  These are real people and you should treat them with the respect and understanding you'd show anyone.  Think of what you're asking them to do for you!  I wouldn't want to be judged by some of my "opening night performances" with providers, but none of them have every made me feel less than special.  And none of them have ever said they didn't want to see me again.   Why don't they deserve a little consideration too?  Sure you're paying them for their time and they should make every effort to please you, but you're NOT buying them.  There's a big difference. --modified by G2 at Tue, Apr 03, 2001, 20:24:03

Seems like women in this biz try to be what men want us to be or at least appear that way but sometimes men don't know what they want, do they...otherwise why so many disgruntled hobbyists. I keep finding that in this line of work I am both teacher and student Somewhere I remember hearing:* that life is just a bit more satisfying when you put something into it.*we all learn at each other's expense*those who lay back don't get as much satisfaction as those who participate.Thank you for the audience.xoxoff

Very well done.  It seems that somethings are truly universal.--JP

I once read something similar by a member of the big dogs community. He wrote a nice essay about this topic. I have saved it and will see if I can post it. The gent who wrote it passed on, but his kind attitude towards others has not. He had a perspective about this that brought the humanity back into perspective. Seems there are others out there like him!The Divine Miss FF is right on also! We deserve respect, kindness and reciprocity of the kindness we give out to you gents. Not to mention that just lying back and expecting does dilute the experience with many of us....Soft Kisses and Warmest of Hugs,Nicole Of Southern California

Do still pay her?  Or has she become a friend that you have sex with?  I am wondering as the acts of friendship seem clear, I think it was Sienfeld who made the joke about "a real friend is one that will take you to the airport".  Or is the relationship still set on the intial path of client/customer?

Well said FF!!!!There is a body/mind connection anytime you work with someone on a physical level if they remain open to it. If one chooses to disregard that they will miss out on a large part of the experience.     Intuitive

Well said FF!!!!There is a body/mind connection anytime you work with someone on a physical level if they remain open to it. If one chooses to disregard that they will miss out on a large part of the experience.     Intuitive

Restaurants vs. ladies is getting a bit farfetched. But for the sake of arguement let me try to draw a comparison with this same analogy. I agree with you PC, that dining out is better if you know the help. A friend of ours(I should say FRIEND)is an executive chef at one of the hottest places in San Diego. The couple of times a year that we go to that place we always receive something special off the menu and always EVERYTHING is on the house. We have also have gotten to know the owner of a restaurant here in LA who over the years we have become rather friendly with and gone out socially. I guess you could say we have become very good acquaintances. However, whenever we go to his restaurant we always pay. Yes on occasion he may send over a bottle of wine that complements our dinner, but that pretty much is the extent of it. He has a business to run, and I probably would run it the same way.I cannot, nor would I ever speak for another person on this board. But how I personally interpreted what ucumpleteme was trying to say dealt with with the definition/concept of the term friend(ship). Sometimes people are guilty, myself included, of calling someone a friend when in fact they are merely an acquaintance. Perhaps ucumpleteme was merely calling people to task for throwing around the term, friend, so loosely. Again this is just my own feeling/interpretation; not meaning to imply that was his intent. My own reasoning why I could identify and support what he initially posted is that although I may have six, seven or eight very good acquaintances, I truly have only one or two very, very close friends, not counting my SO who is my best friend. I would never consider someone a deep, personal friend who I had to pay to spend time with once or twice a month. And the notion of considering a person a friend would be equally ridiculous to me if they even accepted such payment if I really needed to see them.All this not withstanding, doesn't mean you shouldn't treat all people with respect and kindness. Whether it be friend, acquaintance or even stranger, I feel everyone should be treated in a decent way, especially if one has an inkling of interest in karma.  The whole world may be in a better condition if everyone behaved this way. This is especially so if you have any type of extended interaction with somebody, whether it be with a very nice salesman who you have a long-term business relationship with, or a lady you are seeing for a first time, they should be treated with respect, kindness and decency. Although it is highly doubtful that I would call either one a friend.

on the playground the one who other kids would only play with when he bought them something?  And G2, of course you treat them as real women, but they do in fact rent their bodies, no way around it. And FF and Nicole, I am sure that if the guy makes an effort to make the time more fun, thats great, but what i read was the "sex was an afterthought," "we spend more time talking," I just didn't understand what the guy was getting that he could not have gotten from as Justaplayer said, a really true friend. Are we that lonely? Maybe, and there's the real sadness.(PC, pathetic is the right word, it means arousing pity or sorrowful sadness.)

Everyone on this board talks about GFE, there's even a rating in the review section for "I almost forgot it was a service." Well you may have read interpreted my post one way, but let me explain it another.  After three years with the same provider I have achieved a true GFE.  Not for an hour session, but for afternoons or evenings that are so comfortable that sometimes I forget I originally met her as a provider three years earlier.  We have so much more than just sex and do so many other things together that we're in a different category.  And yes, sometimes sex is almost an afterthought because after a full day we may decide it's too late- just like you might with any date.  Sometimes I give her money to help her out even if we got too busy doing other things, and just as often she forgets to charge me as well.  So it all balances out and in the process we've achieved a true GFE, and more importantly true friends.    Would she still see me if I didn't pay her?   Well she does just about every week so I guess the answer is yes.  We're a part of each others life because we like each other, and it doesn't matter how we met.  And that's more important to me than a string of 1-hour slam sessions with strangers.

i can't believe that one dummy said he goes to his provider and sex is an after thought and sometimes there no sex at all. This guys is very stupid or has emotional issues.  You are paying her  on a hourly rate to take her to work, or to take her out to get her car fix?  Are you that stupid or lonely.  Too all you guys out there its a job to them, they get paid well for it some deserve their pay most don't.  You pay there bill keep that in mind.  If this business wasn't illegal you wouldn't put up with bad service at the mall you shouldn't expect to put up with it at a provider.  All those who said it takes two, is full of it.  I agree it takes two in a personal relationship, but what we have with providers are not personal relationship its a business relationship.  If you think its personal, try to get your favorite so call friend provider to give you a free one? Bet you aint getting any.  You pay for the service its up to the provider to make up the spark,  I guarantee you if she was hard up for money to pay the bills you see how her attitude would change.  She just use to seeing your face and figured you aint going anywhere, so she can slack off the service.

eom

Lets see I have a good friend that owns a mens clothing store and I buy most of my suits there but I have never asked him for a free one. My neighbor is a manager of a resturant but I do not expect him to feed me for free when I go out to dinner at his establishment. Should I go on- because lord knows I can with ease.  Interesting however how many times I have showed up for an hour appointment with one of the ladies I referenced in the post above and left hours later. Does it happen with each provider. Of course not, nor do I expect it to, but I have found that in many instances that you get what you give. Obviously it starts as business and business always, repeat always, remains part of the equation. What part, and how well you get along, be it in the bedroom or out in the world depends as much on you the client as on her the provider.I have also met a lady or two for lunch- have been asked mind you and treated with no strings attached. Is it because I am a paying client. Probably it counts, but indulge me in my fantasy that maybe they like me just enough to spend a little of their free time with someone they like. Have I had my bad experiences? You bet. Do I let them cloud my good ones? Not if I can help it.

Judging by the volume of response, I believe we have hit a chord here. Papercup, there is simple solution to this. Next time you visit bear a gift. Be it flowers or a bottle of wine (if you plan to share it bring two bottles, one for her to keep) or any other simple gift. In fact, never go empty-handed and also put some thought into what you are bringing for her. You don't necessarily have to buy it all the time, you can bring a personal posession. It is your sincerity that counts.Contrary to what a lot of males believes, women aren't so much interested in money than they are in finding how much you value them. You must make an extra effort other than the cash you lay on the table. That's just for living expenses.There is, of course, no need to engage in any of this if you don't plan to see her again. But on an ongoing basis, you need to work at just like any other relationship. For women, sex is only part of the relationship. The other part is how you view her, value her, think about her and notice her fine attributes. All this means that you have to do homework before you show up at the doorsteps. And really, that is the hardest part.b

Just when I thought you might redeem yourself, you do another 180. If you cant win at setting our prices you then turn around and try to dictate what the "client" needs or what he doesnt need! The way it really works is that there is a whole world of variety out there. Sex is in your head, not between your legs. Believe it or not, sex takes many avenues, many streets. Some of the ones that you are referring to that men and women engage in you obviously do not understand. Take your own advice, read the boards, ask questions and this *should* help you understand.Im about to give up on you. Sincerely,Nicole

Yeah.  I do all that.  You're right, it helps.  What I was getting at was how sometimes the level of service goes down anyway, because of other factors.  She might do a great job the first few times because she wants to make a good impression.  Get good tips, maybe snag a regular customer, etc.  Once she thinks she's got you, she starts to relax, just like a wife (or a building contractor).  Maybe she's just been trying to feel you out to find out what you really want, since us guys aren't always very communicative.  Once she figures out what she thinks you want, she might just concentrate on that and skip through the other "unnecessary "stuff she was trying out just to see if you liked it.Or maybe you're just a boring guy that's starting to get on her nerves.This is the kind of stuff I meant.  Anything look familiar?

That's just the nature of any type of a sexual relationship that remains purely physical. I suggest you do not go to one provider repetitively over a short period of time. Find a few providers you like and spread the visits apart. b