......I need some references from my ATF, but I'm afraid she won't be too happy. She may put up less than a full effort in her subsequent sessions with me. Growing up with 4 sisters, I think I understand most Women. What to do?

Your 'ATF' isn't your girlfriend, thee is no relationship here, and she's not your sister either.  Most ladies understand (as men should also) that this is primarily a business relationship and even if you are a regular, they're happy to give a reference for you.  If not, find a new ATF.

In my experience, my regular ladies have frequently provided references for me and there was never any fallout.  If you really have concerns, ask your favorite in advance and just be upfront - "Hey, if I needed a reference, would you help me out?".  Depending on her answer, take it from there.

She's yoru ATF not your GF. One of the main reasons men hobby is for variety. If she's going to get territorial on you and consider you her exclusive property, then find another lady.

If she is good at what she does, then she shouldn't need to worry about whether you'll be coming back to see her or not. She would know that you will, no matter how far you roam.

Is maintaining the girlfriend role. Would you ask a girlfriend for references to see other women? I don't think so. You don't "need" references from anyone in particular, get your references from the next few girls you see casually. Just because these are professional relationships doesn't mean we don't all fall captive to basic emotions. Trust your instincts.

is the Spice of Life...lol...she is Your ATF...Not your GF...what is the big deal...You do realize once You leave...she has a New Boyfriend coming over...right...and just because You grew up with 4 sisters...you have a Mom...and You may or may Not...have a Wife/SO...doesn't mean You understand Most Women...lol...unless there is more to it...than You are telling us...I am sure she already believes You are seeing other Providers

fucked thus far!!!  What's with all the whiney guys who are afraid to see someone else lately.
Did you buy her a wedding ring?  Does SHE fuck no one but YOU???  Does she ask you if she can fuck and suck, and CIM, and give rimjobs, and recieve golden and brown showers....etc???????

Answer is no!  She will fuck anything walking, with an envelope, and you think you cannot see someone else without her being upset.

HOW STOOOOOOOOPID!!!

Just ask if she will give you a reference.  If she says no, find another provider who is "newbie" friendly, be nice, and on your way out the door after the date, ask her!
Most ladies are VERY good about that.  If she's not, declare her youe EX-ATF  and go fall in love with someone who will let you roam like the wild, sexual beast you seem NOT to be!!!!  LOL

else you get hung up on your one of the first ladies you see and this sets up the pattern of losing perspective and sets in motion the habit of forming attachments that are innapropriate to the hobby.

I would advise that any newbie see at least twenty ladies over at least a year before ever repeating.

by the way it's a part of her job to give you references. pretty much the same as it is to suck and fuck you and make you feel "special".

dealing with a woman who knows what it means to have no strings attached.

I agree with Sins.  As a provider, it's very nice to be someone's favorite, but we do realize that there are plenty of fish, and cannot worry about a client visiting another girl.  Cannot...or we'll drive ourselves and our men away.  

This "hobby" is just that...a hobby.  If she is a true professional, it won't matter if you wish to venture out.  If she get's upset, then she is not the right girl for you to be seeing.  Then it's time to move on.  

I'm not saying that there won't be some feelings of sadness or jealousy on her part.  But, you shouldn't hear about them if there are.  This world is big enough for all of us to get along fine in.  There's enough to go around.  It's not an all or nothing game here.  I've given out more referrals over the years, willingly every time.  That's what we do.  Some clients come back to me, and some move on, but the wheels keep a turning.  Always, for both sides.  

So, go for it.  And, the outcome is what is meant to be.  Have fun!

Maybe you can start by asking her "what do you think of me seeing other ladies?"

If she says "why not, go see some". Then tell her you need a reference.

If she says "why sweetie, are you tired of me?" with a hint of possessiveness, then say "no, just wanted to make you jealous".  Then see what happens.

I tried this with an ATF and she said "If you really want to".  I got the hint that that she didn't like it.  So, I said 'no, I was just jokin'.

Don't you guys get the concept that we pay these women, not for sex, but so we don't have to play these silly little fucking games.

My advice to the OP is to grow a pair of balls and stop treating his ATF like his SO. Until she starts fucking him for free, he has the right to see whoever in the fuck he wants to. If anything her level of service should go up once she realizes he is not just an ATM machine, and that he understands he has other options.

I really can't believe how many spineless fucking pussies have chimed in on this thread, it appears that the women have offered up better advice than the so called men around here.

I don't get it...why would there be feelings of Sadness or jealously on her part...We are All in this...knowing We are All seeing lots of Men and Women...We are All here to Enjoy as much Passion and Pleasure as we can...so I don't understand how a Provider can get jealous and sad...and then a few hours later...see another Man...lol...and it's all good...am I missing something or am I just naive???

would it be OK if I saw other Men...lol...I am sorry...this is just the Funnist Thread and answers I have ever read...I have a few men who tell me I am there ATF...and I am Not Foolish enough to believe I am the Only one they see...because they have wifes...lol...they go home to...and I also realize there are other providers...how can a Provider get upset...she get mad at You...You say OK I was just jokin...You leave...and then her next date shows up...ROFLMOA...sorry...I truly Must be missing something here...and Not just with You...I'm dumbfounded

I see women mostly while traveling.  I always ask providers in one city to be references for someone I want to see in another city, just to avoid even the chance of this.

The reaction I get varies.  Most are just happy to provide a ref.  A few actually do some checking on who I plan on seeing and have advised me of things I should know about the "new" lady.

Only one ever gave me a hint that she would be hurt (jealous isn't quite right) if I saw someone else in her city.  But then there is a long history between the two of us and I understand, though don't agree with her.

There are ways of seeing someone else without rubbing it in her face.  Even though we know what this is supposed to be about there can be feelings involved even if some people don't always want to recognize then.

Why do posts like this bring out the extreme points of view?  And bring out people who read into a post stuff that ain't there.

Some refuse to acknowledge any feelings develop between people, even after multiple sessions.

Some have difficulty distinguishing between ATF and GF, others between a one-time provider and an ATF.  They are different relationships and should be handled differently.

Some feel the more expletives the more convincing their post.

Treat people decently be they clients, providers, or anyone else.  If they still get upset move on to someone else.

The thought of "sneaking around" on your ATF is so fucking funny, do these guys ever read their posts to see how fucking pathetic they sound??? roflmfao

For those who view things as you do.

Why is it so hard to comprehend this is a very big ocean and not everyone sees it the same way?  And why the need to insult anyone who has different ideas than you do?

Many of your posts seem to fall into that category as well, but we can talk about that on another thread.

For now I will reserve my contempt for the spineless pussies that need to ask permission to fuck around on a prostitute. Some of you guys need to reread your posts and see how utterly pathetic you sound.

It's like talking to a brick wall.
You can't educate stupidity in the hobby, but I know we try.

Be it a male of female Sir Alfalfa to the rescue!!!

The only thing you can do is point out stupid so the "almost stupid" can see it for what it is. The truly stupid will never get it, and heaven knows there is no shortage of the truly stupid on this board.

Don't talk to someone you consider a 'Brick Wall'.

One persons stupid is anothers genious. Everyone hobby's differently. In fact,i've been infromed that a lot of ladies prefer those whom are considered manginas by this very board. Not all but some.

What happened to LP'S(beginning of the year)call for civility?

Oh right, i'm a good example of consistent civility.LOL

...he basically said you can't save the stupid, but maybe turn the "almost stupid"....

I won't attempt to categorize you OSP, we’ll just leave it up to the readers, lol...

I have Fav ladies...  been seeing one of them over 4 years now.  I am friends with my Favs...  I treat them with the caring of a friend of this duration.  
I have no desire to see how many notches I can carve on my six guns but do meet new ladies whom I think have the potential to become Favs, not because of a deficiency with a Fav.
I screen with the new lady.  I give them my review handle so they can see my history.  I state that I prefer not to contact my existing Favs.  
I've not had a problem screening with a new lady.  
skb

While there are a couple of prospects I plan to see again, due to circumstances beyond my control, it's not happened yet.

what with your all knowing all seeing and resident board thread expert.

Jump back on your white horse, take your shield with you and run back to the castle, where others believe your BS. Most men here do NOT believe the shit that you post. Don't even ask why, it should be self-evident to most.

We can only wish I guess.

This is a bussiness. We all have our favorite stores we shop and are friendly with the clerks there but will on occasion shop at a different store, same thing here. If she is unhappy with you "shopping" at the competition then she does not believe that her service is good enough to keep you returning and it is probably time to find a new atf. Besides are you "unhappy" that she conducts bussiness with other clientele. You are not involved in a personal relationship with her and most businesses are not afraid to have their best cutomers shop someplace else and will usually recomend a store that they believe will fulfill the desires that the customer may have at that particular moment in time.

how many men do We Providers see in a day....a week...a month....and then I am going to tell You...it would make me Sad if You saw anyone else...but in the meantime....I'm going to fuck at least a dozen guys before I see You again...it's Funny...however...at least I know I can count on Your envelope

of course feelings can develope over time...we are people...however the reality of the fact is...how can I as a Provider...tell You I would be Sad and Jealous if You saw another Provider...and then turn around and see as many Hobbist as I choose...fair is fair...if I tell You I only want You to see me...then shouldn't You have the right...to tell me..You don't want me to see anyone else...so now what are we doing...are We engaging in a relationship or are We going to Enjoy the Hobby as it was meant to be...Variety...the only way I believe I as a Provider should have the right to convince You to see no one else...is if We changed the playing ground to a sugardaddy relationship...and anyone can get upset with me...but I personally think the sad and jealously card is actually a form of manipulation...

Did you ask anyone whether you can have this particular provider as your ATF?

and any kind of "bond" has formed, I am HAPPY that he is a red blooded American male who has the desire for variety. If he sees others it won't get "stale" and the way I see it is that it all comes back around.

If I were shelling out a donation for a lady's time I would consider that donation to be for THAT TIME and not to be some sort of a "contract".
That donation should mean that you are NOT bound to see her and only her, that you are free to move about the country.

If you pay a consultant for their time or advice on a specific thing, are you bound to always use that consultant? HELL NO! You are not bound to ANYTHING. Any mature lady who has her shit together in this biz knows the drill.

Move forth and have a blast!

ROCK OUT.

Enjoy yourself!!!

You only need to feel bound to your SO, period. There you have made some sort of commitment and that is a totally different deal.

Don't base things on your ATF getting all butt hurt cuz if you do she is a shitty ATF in the first place.

Hope this helps.

I also don't care what you believe or not.  You don't bother to read, you distort and claim whatever you wish to.  Never said I was all knowing or all seeing but I've obviously had some experiences you're closed mind hasn't.

Anyone with a different view you claim is a liar.  Everyone with a different opinion is stupid.  So be it.

Myopia like yours can't be fixed either.

x

the only posts allowed on here would be those disagreeing with someone.  Unless it is disagreeing with you.  Then I am supposed to agree.

You make my head hurt.

Not really.

You and your cohort are the ones getting upset because I have the audacity to think differently than you do.

I'm not the one saying you should change how you think, I'm just saying I don't see the world as you do.  If that upsets you (as it seems it does) I would have to ask "Why?".  Afraid I might contaminate others?  If my comments are as stupid as you claim that shouldn't worry you, but something does.

To answer your question (something you do rarely), no, I don't plan on going anywhere.

this thread is starting to remind me of Jackie Treehorns rant on the degradation of porn over the years in The Big Lebowski.

Maybe it is just fucking and sucking to some people, but looking at the variety of responses on this thread, I would have to say that there is more to it for most of us. We carve out our own opinions about this stuff just like anything else.

I do appreciate the balls out honesty though, from everyone.

Ailey,

Thanks for taking exception to my post in a polite way!    That seems a difficult thing for a few Pigly Men to do.  And thanks for actually reading it which upncummin52 & Mangina.Wannabe seem not to have done since their replies are non sequitors from what I posted.  

I have never supported the jealous provider or the jealous client.  I didn't even think this post was hostile!  It seems upncummin52 & Mangina.Wannabe thought it was vile and reprehensible (actually they don't, they just think I'm vile and reprehensible.  LOL!)

Hurt and jealousy should not happen, but they do.  I just try to avoid causing those emotions in others if I don't have to.  Since they disagree with me so vehimently I have to assume upncummin52 & Mangina.Wannabe enjoy causing those feelings.  If I were a provider, THAT would worry me.

Exactly!

Believe me, though -- lots of people harbor double-standards; including some providers.

How many times have we seen some lady post about how she expects monogamy from her civie BF because what she does is "just a job without emotional attachments." How many times have we seen a some gentleman post that while providers are good enough for sex, they would never be good enough for dating?

The list of double standards goes on and on.

I have personally experienced one-sided expectations of monogamy from two providers.

Naturally, they are free to EXPECT anything they wish. Whether I am foolish enough to engage in such a non-reciprocal situation without deriving some other serious benefit outside of sex is another matter, though.

But, yes, such expectations do exist; as crazy as they may be.

been missing...lol...I Do Not believe in double standards...it creates to much Drama for me...I just like to keep things simple with a lot of Fun

Jezz ... you people need to learn ...

First of all ... it's about paying lip service to the ATF.  Of course, hobbyists sleep with other women without the ATF knowing if she does not want to know. Lip service is good if that's what she wants to hear that she's the only one. Remember, pretty providers are sometimes narcissistic.

ATFs are sometimes Jealous NOT because you're sleepin with other ladies. They're jealous because your ENVELOP is not going into their pocket.  Think about it. It's very common in my area when ladies quarrel about a madam/provider stealing from another provider .. CATFIGHT on Backpage. It happens - and the recurring them is "Don't steal my regular" or I'll advertise that you're LE.