I am just going to say here that everyone has valid points on this and I get the differing thoughts.
I believe in honesty. (minus weighing against the whole protecting self from blackmail) Never had a personal issue with anyone I have been with telling me how they feel and going and "being with someone else" I just figure if I can't have trust in them then we are not meant for each other anyways. The way I see it, if I can't give someone everything they need I do not want to deprive them of that. I am secure enough that I am not going to worry that I will be left for someone else and if that does happen then that just means we were not meant to be anyways. Being honest/ communicative with a SO can heighten your relationship I feel. I may be upset when told but in the end I was given a choice.
Lilli. Hm. I feel no where near the way you do about a Man is Master etc. Equality is the only word I know. I am not better than a man, nor is a Man better than me. It will never be a thought I will ever agree with. However you have a right to feel the way you want and I do respect that. I also respect that you would post an honest, minority feeling. Agree to disagree lol.
in a BF that he not visit providers?
I see frequent posts about guys dating and having LTRs with escorts, but it looks like a non-starter from her point of view.
Is it that hiding becomes such a drag that having a guy who knows the whole score right from the beginning, and accepts it, becomes a workable solution?
It goes without saying that providers have lives out side of work, families, kids, responsibilities, etc, how do you keep the whole thing afloat?
Thanks
TC
kindness, thoughtfulness, strength of character, good to his mother, strong work ethic, sexual chemistry, brains, politics.... all those supersede whether or not he likes to visit escorts.
not seeing escorts doesn't make it on to my BF wishlist. but then maybe im the exception not the rule.
When I met my ATF years ago she had just left her husband. She had provided years before her marriage and after but not during. He knew about her past.
She left him because he cheated on her, lied about it and, after she gave him a second chance, he did it again. She has told me more than once that if he had simply seen an escort she would have been OK with it. Of course hind-site is 20/20 but I can tell you that, from what she has told me about the loser, he didn't posses many of the characteristics that Jenny listed at the start of her post!
I don't believe that humans are hard wired to be SEXUALY monogomous. I however, HATE *liars*... So I would want people I date in the future to be EMOTIONALLY faithful in the sense that they are not deceptive and under-handed about their liasons with other people... I would expect them to engage in safer sex practices and be completely honest and frank without me having to put them under a bright ligh, in a chair in the center of a room, and forcibly INTEROGATE the *truth* out of them... 
Unfortunately, I have met many "hobbyists" who seem to have an *allergic reaction* to truthfulness...
Dear Ms. Demilo:
I was wondering is your current relationship just that strong that you don't mind your mate having extra curricular activities such as this? I guess your on extremely solid ground and your at a secure place in your life as well as your relationship.
If you are paying to fuck me, you can fuck all of the civilians and pros you want.
There may be exceptions. Like if I know about it, I may be okay with it. When I used to tour heavily and had a boyfriend I told him to do whatever he wanted to do because obviously I wasn't around to attend to him for months on end. Or if he said "I need something new" I could understand that. But exceptions - not the rule.
and expect him to only see me....fair is fair...so that is far from the #1 thing...For me the #1 thing is communication...I can talk about Everything and anything and a whole lot of Nothing...and I expect him to be able to do the same...I would much rather him be upfront and honest with me and hurt my feeling for the moment...rather than pretend everything is alright and then one day he explodes and I have no idea where that came from...
...so long as he's honest about it, is committed to our relationship and the freedom works both ways.
I have always been happiest in nonmonogamist relationships. I feel that no ONE person can completely fulfill ALL of another person's needs and desires - it puts too much pressure on the partner to fulfill everything!
I have always encouraged my partners to be open (safe, but open) in dating or hobbying. I feel that equality is important in a relationship, and since I don't want to be monogamous, I don't expect a partner to be monogamous to me.
In full agreement with the other ladies, I look for qualities in a partner such as courtesy, respect, kind consideration, a sense of humor and playfulness. Monogamy has actually never been on my list (not even in high school) because to me, the emotional connection is more important than the limitation of sexual partners.
"I feel that no ONE person can completely fulfill ALL of another person's needs and desires"
Pick almost any emotion, and you can find a friend to meet it in a non-sexual way.
The second edition of "The Ethical Slut" was released very recently and is apparently even better than the first edition.
Other excellent books on non-monogamy are:
Mating In Captivity by Esther Perel (2007, Harper)
Opening Up:A Guide To Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships by Tristan Taormino (2008, Cleis Press)
so I can't relate there, but - I simply don't think about it that way, except that honesty is important.
One should not see providers if one is certain type puritanical feeling. For one thing, you are not being truthful to yourself. When you are not truthful to yourself, you can't be truthful with others.
In every case, there losers, they are losers because, they don't have clue as to who they are, what they are or have respect for themselves.
I am honest with my BF about what I do, I was an escort when I met him, I enjoy it and I enjoy the money, I am not going to stop because of him. I made that very clear from day one.
I would not mind if he wanted to see a provider from time to time. He had a short wishlist of providers he wanted to see when I met him. I have no problem with that, I would have a big problem if he lied to me about it.
I expect him to be honest, thoughtful, respectful and listen when I speak. I expect him to take care of his two kids from a previous marriage, take care of his elderly parents and be good to my dogs. Those are way more important than him seeing another provider.
Interesting to read how different people view the situation.
What I never understood, and SO wish I could, is that when I dated a provider she went nuts when she found out I was seeing other pros occasionally.
I would mention that she'd have 2 or 3 sessions some days and had lots of variety in her life. Many regulars who "loved" her and couldn't see her enough. I was expected to 'deal with it'. Her response was that she did it because she "had" to and I was doing it because I "wanted" to. I just never got the big difference, other than it worked out well for her.
You can't expect one partner to be monogamous and the other not to be.
Whether we like it or not, having sex is not like digging a ditch. It has a special meaning in relationships.
I'm open-minded to various forms of ethical non-monogamy; but to the extent that they exist -- they must exist for all parties.
and has kids. Her hubby seems to be OK with it.
However, I asked her how he could share her (she is VERY nice looking, AND VERY good in the sack), and if she could share him. She told me no way would she share him with any woman!!!!
I guess he just like the extra income, but it seems like a kind of lopsided deal to me!
... As women who are sometimes surrounded all day by men who are often lying to their significant others, we *LIKE* to imagine that we would "know" if their was deception in our OWN relationships... and some of us get really ANGRY if we find out that we have been just as oblivious as any other women whose SO has a wandering eye (and wandering other body parts to boot)... As I said in post above, *I* don't even engage in monogomous relationships on principle... BUT when I have had a "primary partner," I expect absolute HONESTY...
So she may have been hypocritical, but it sounds like you were a bit of a liar... She DID have a valid point about DESIRE though... You got to pick partners because YOU *desired* them... while she was stuck with finacially generous partners who desired HER... but whom she may have not been attracted to in the least...
So what kind of honesty do you look for in a 'primary partner'?
They may be your 'primary', but do you have to be theirs?
What does it mean to be 'primary'? He orgasms more with you than with another? He spends more wall time with you than another? He spends more of his money (not in a provider way) on you than another?
Does primary mean he must share all his most important feelings with you? What if you just don't understand him on one or two issues, but another lady does?
On your 'desire' point, what is the real point? If you both are not 100% monogomous with each other, guess what, in the case of the guy, he WILL find another woman desirable. So, your 'primary', who must have 'secondaries' finds them desirable. The question always in the background is "Is there a tipping point where I slip from his primary to his secondary? And how will I know that, since most guys don't know it is occuring until after it happens?"
As far as desire, I think you misread what I wrote, so I will paraphrase it again HERE- I was responding to a poster who said that his escort girlfriend pointed out that HE had sex with HIS partners because he "wanted to," while SHE had sex with partners whose CHOSE her.. and whom she may very well NOT desire... I was AGREEING with her observation! In open relationships where there is no PAY-FOR-PLAY, EVERYONE has inimacy with people because they DESIRE them... but it's more complicated when you through in escorting.
this seems like another one of those threads which makes many assumptions about the personal life and motivations of a provider, as if we all share a similar perspective and are coming from the same place.
but i will go ahead and give my two pence...i am married, VERY happily so, and my escorting is not a secret from my Husband. in fact i did not dip a toe into this hobby until after we had been married for several years, and i went to him and expressed the interest/desire to him, what my motivations would be, etc., and asked for his thoughts. after taking some time to think about it, WE decided go ahead with it, and he has helped me every step of the way. behind the scenes he is very much involved as far as who i do and do not see, giving great advice, keeping track of information and of course keeping me safe.
of course it should be stated that we have never had a sexually monogamous relationship...that is not something we believe in. however we also have a very "old-fashioned" relationship in some ways, specifically that we believe in very traditional gender roles therefore he is the Head of the household and i serve and obey him without question. this means that any sexual relationships i have with other men must first be approved by him, while he as the Man and Master is free to be with whomever he pleases, and has no obligation to tell me. still, we are very close, best friends in fact, so he does end up telling me of any interest he has in another woman and of any sexual interactions with that person.
however if i found out that he went out and saw a provider, i would be VERY upset. that is something completely different, and would be cause for a major loss of trust and lots of heartbreak. and that is because it is against his own personal values to pay a woman for "company"...it would not be in line with the man i know and love. so therefore, it would be a huge problem.
You wrote: "while he as the Man and Master is free to be with whomever he pleases, and has no obligation to tell me."
and
"if i found out that he went out and saw a provider, i would be VERY upset. that is something completely different"
So, if he sees a woman in a bar and goes back to her place and they have wild sex for hours, that is better than if he sees a woman online and goes to her place and they have wild sex for hours? The only difference is the exchange of money, right?
What if the woman he had wild sex with from the bar calls him up to come over again and again? Maybe he spends some money on a nice meal delivered to her place, or a bottle of wine or something else which brings the tab to what he would have spent for an hour with an escort? Does the amount come into play?
What is the difference between the woman from the bar (or library, or other public place), and the escort, that would cause you to be upset?
that's it really. for personal reasons of his own, that he has expressed to me repeatedly, he would not ever wish to pay a woman for her time. moreover, the kind of connection he desires and needs in order to be satisfied just cannot be acquired in an escort situation.
despite the nature of our relationship, one in which if he pleased he could screw a different woman every other night and get no grief from me, he is just not wired for completely casual sex. that is why the number of other women he has been sexually involved with in our 9 year relationship can be counted on two hands, with fingers left over. He needs that real connection and chemistry, he needs to feel a part of her daily life in some way, and above everything else he must feel needed. she must crave him more than he does her.
so that is why i would be upset if he were ever with an escort, because it would go against the nature of the man i know and love. if i had known him as someone different, perhaps that would be a different story.
I might not completely agree with some of the larger implications of some of what you are saying -- but it certainly works for you so I can't criticize it, and you express it very very well.
omg I can not really give a good answer here. I have just drastically failed "boyfriends 101" .
Now hes becoming my local stalker.
oh well I believe I am on vacation from relationships for a while.
I do expect trust and sincerity and honesty well I wasn't honest about this. Big mistake... so we learn from our experiences. I was honest about myself and with my feelings not enough though I guess.
I think its a different answer for everyone yet I think being able to just be yourself with someone free to relax and let your true self shine thats key.
laughter is a plus too and passion, deep seeded passion between the two.
I only see single non-MILF providers at lease that what they tell me. I also only see a provider when I'M single or have been lay in 90 days by what might be my GF.
We do not feel free to play games and/or manipulate those whom we respect.
We are honest with those whom we respect (see above).
Without feeling respect, we are incapable of being not only a loved one's biggest fan and supporter, but also one's greatest challenger.
Without feeling respect, intimate time together ceases to be a reward and celebration of mutual accomplishment, and instead becomes at best temporary reprieves from lust and loneliness, and at worst a chore or burden to be periodically dealt with.
I'm proud of what I have accomplished in this lifestyle, and I prefer to not share my personal time with individuals who are incapable of seeing this or respecting what it means to me. This hypothetical significant other's personal struggles concerning ethics, potential health risks, etc surrounding my involvement in this lifestyle are understandable and to a certain extent to be expected. How that might be best dealt with (through allowances of an open relationship for him/her or other means) are completely individual and dependent on his/her particular issues regarding my involvement in this lifestyle. However, these personal issues/struggles should not ever preclude this individual's ability to respect me.
Very well put.
I would say that time with a loved one should be a confirmation of a benevolent universe in that they see in each other reasons for admiration and respect; and have added emotional depth to that.
And the tie between respect and love is key.
Respect and admiration need not always manifest in love; but I believe they are prerequisites.
And once you have that, many other things that would otherwise be impossible become possible.
I am married, and hubby sees many differant girlfriends as well as differant providers...sometimes the money I make from being a provider goes right to another provider for his pleasure. All is fair...
I am just going to say here that everyone has valid points on this and I get the differing thoughts.
I believe in honesty. (minus weighing against the whole protecting self from blackmail) Never had a personal issue with anyone I have been with telling me how they feel and going and "being with someone else" I just figure if I can't have trust in them then we are not meant for each other anyways. The way I see it, if I can't give someone everything they need I do not want to deprive them of that. I am secure enough that I am not going to worry that I will be left for someone else and if that does happen then that just means we were not meant to be anyways. Being honest/ communicative with a SO can heighten your relationship I feel. I may be upset when told but in the end I was given a choice.
Lilli. Hm. I feel no where near the way you do about a Man is Master etc. Equality is the only word I know. I am not better than a man, nor is a Man better than me. It will never be a thought I will ever agree with. However you have a right to feel the way you want and I do respect that. I also respect that you would post an honest, minority feeling. Agree to disagree lol.
give me a jangle.
8o)