Tori that was beautifully written. That is just another reason why I feel so fortunate to have spent time with you. I wish it would have been much, much longer. 
From the time I began working in this industry, my number one set back and problem has been last minute cancellations or no call/no shows. I have tried to just take it in stride as part of the many hazards of this industry, but I can do this no more.
My final straw occurred last night. A TER VIP with great references, a man who is supposedly "first class all the way", booked me for both weekend nights to deploy myself to none other than the Ritz in Laguna beach. I was to earn a substantial amount of money by the end of the weekend, with a promise that if all went well, he would be referring me to a network of gentlemen who would enjoy my companionship at rates even higher than what he was offering for this weekend.
I had earned this opportunity because of the reputation I have built for myself as being a provider that has never waivered from discretion, the utmost respect and appreciation for my companions, and a REAL desire AND ability to provide them with the pleasure, intimacy, and sophisticated companionship that is most sought after.
As a result of this first class gentleman booking me for the weekend, I declined the offers of many other gentlemen who sought my companionship this weekend. When a provider declines a gentlemen's offer, for whatever reason, she always risks that he will not offer her an invitation again, especially if it was his first invitation to her.
The gentleman who booked me for the weekend, in all of his first class glory, failed to call or show up. As a result, I lost all of the income that was promissed to me from him, all of the income from the gentlemen that I turned away as a result of his reservation of my time, opportunities to cultivate relationships with new gentlemen who seriously were interested in me for long term income potential, AND I sat idle on a Friday night - prime time to provide companionship. I can not do this any longer.
You see, I am not here utilizing my DISPOSABLE time nor my DISPOSABLE income. Nor, am I here to fight for my rights.
I AM HERE TO TAKE WHAT IS MINE. And, what is mine is, the ability to be the one to profit most on the greatest asset I have, which happens to be the most valuable commodity on the market.
When you schedule time with me, I reserve that time especially for you and decline the invitations of others for requests made for your especially reserved time. If you cancel last minute, that leaves me with open time and missed opportunity, which causes me to loose a substantial amount of income. No business can survive and operate under conditions where the business is loosing money, wasting time, and loosing opportunity.
Therefore, I will be implementing a deposit requirement from here on out to book any appointment with me and so will some of the other providers. Any gentleman with serious intentions of keeping his appointment should not have a problem with making a deposit to secure his reserved time. Why should he? Afterall, if you value me enough to want to spend time with me and give me your money, don't you think it logical that you value me enough to understand that you are not the only one that wants to do the same? You treat us as if our time and our business is some kind of joke or game, like we have no value. Excuse me?
Let's start with the basics. Any MAN -- I'm talking about a REAL MAN here, not just someone who happens to be male in gender, understands that his own intrinsic value and worth completely relies upon his ability to properly respect, revere and care for women. Anytime you disrespect or devalue a woman, you express how little of value YOU have. Whoever told you that the reason women exist is to care for you told you a lie.
Here is the truth. The reason you exist is to care for women. Why? Because everything that you need, want, and desire comes from a woman. Don't believe me? Think about the state of who you would be without women in your life. Try to imagine your life completely void of pussy, the nurturing care of a woman, the inspiration of a woman, the meaning that a woman brings to your life. What do you think about twenty four hours a day seven days a week? If it is not women directly, almost assuredly a woman is behind what is motivating you to think of something else. If neither is the case, I suggest to you that you aren't thinking about what you should be thinking about, and your life is headed for disaster.
Now, let's suppose that there are some people of the male gender out there that will not or can not accept that the above premise is the truth, and therefore they should always value and respect women. Try to look at it from a strictly economic perspective. The value of sex in the market place is greater than the value of any other commodity sold. Period. SEX'S value is greater than oil, gold, the greatest technological inventions, all of hollywood, EVERYTHING. Yet, you treat it as if it is the least valuable thing on the market. As if you have the right to abuse, degrade and undermine the value of THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY. Who do you think you are? The value of sex will never change as long as humanity remains alive. It will always be the most valuable thing on the market. Behaving as if it is not, undermines your intelligence. Allowing you to behave that way undermines my intelligence.
There were times and cultures that revered whores, who worshipped with whores, who treated whores as royalty. They had it right. They knew that in insulting the integrity of the most valuable and precious commodity they had, they ultimately were shooting themselves in the foot. Degrading whores makes as much sense as going out and buying the most expensive porsche and painting it bright pink with green polka dots.
I want to say that the gentlemen from TER who have actually shown up for their appointments with me have been gentlemen that I treasure in my heart. I have not one unkind thing to say about them. They are truly the kind of gentlemen to whom women dream of providing companionship. These gentlemen, and the gentlemen that I have interacted with on this board or in pm's, but have not yet met, are of the finest gentlemen in society for whom I am so very honored to provide companionship and call my friends. Please do not mistake my anger regarding the behavior of these other men for a lack of appreciation and respect for gentlemen who really are gentlemen. I cherish every single gentleman who gives me the privilege and opportunity to interact with him in a respectful way. Any man who has had the experience of me, even through just email, knows that he is special to me and that will not change in any way.
for better or worse the standard practice in the high end escort world is no down payments and no charges for late cancellations. It will be interesting to see from a purely business point of view if you can make your new policy stick. You should post and let us know.
Personally, I'm someone who sticks to these appointments religiously understanding the challenges that go into the enterprise from the provider's end. There was one time when I needed to cancel 24 hours before a scheduled appt. and I was new enough to offer the provider money for her lost opportunity costs. She declined.
For me, one of the inevitable realities of this activity is that there are a bunch of flakes involved, both on the client and provider side. I don't think it will ever change. Doesn't matter whether that guy was a TER VIP (which of course is only a dues paying category not a seal of approval), he turned out to be a royal asshole. It's an unfortunate aspect of the business.
Loved reading your post. And great photo! It was so distracting I had trouble writing.
The standard practices that have been established so far have been established by the clients who do not have an appreciation for the industry, not the gentlemen who really do appreciate and value the industry. You knew the right thing to do was compensate that provider for her lost opportunity then, when you first started, and you know it now. Why would you ever want to allow men, who clearly lack the honor and integrity that you have, to dictate the standard practices of anything, yet alone where the consequences of them setting the standards result in women being devalued and disrespected?
The only reason for something not to change is if people are resigned to the way things are. I see no good reason for the standard practice to be as it should, and that only good can come from establishing new ones.
TER established itself so that it could hold providers accountable for the services they actually provide. Having a system of accountability has made a tremendous difference in the quality of service in the industry and experiences gentlemen have. However, the system of accountability is one sided. Providers still have not gotten a way to hold gentlemen accountable for the financial loss they suffer as a result of disrespect. Seriously, we can barely hold you accountable for disrespectful behavior that causes us emotional and/or physical harm. It's not like even the law cares to hold you accountable when you commit crimes against us.
Having a system of accountability for both sides can only serve to increase the quality of the industry and the experiences of everyone in it. Why would you even want to allow men to participate in the same industry or community of people as you who are not honorable and lack integrity? Is that who you want to be associated with? Not me. I don't want to be associated with flakes nor do I want flakes to be the ones to tell me how I can or should do anything.
Your protection from getting harmed from providing a deposit is clear. The first time a gentleman posts that a provider has flaked or "stolen" his deposit on TER, is the last time that provider will get a client from TER. And, providers who have not yet earned a reputation for being credible and honest with a good review history, won't be able to demand deposits because gentlemen will not have good reason to think that a poor review will effect the new provider. Simple.
Every provider sets her own policies. I’ve seen the whole spectrum and they vary greatly. Your new policy will be nothing new. Many providers require deposits for longer dates, especially if travel is involved. Addressing your last point, providers have been accused of “stealing” deposits who have gone on to flourish here on TER. Rest assured, even after you out this guy to the entire provider community, he will continue to get appointments from many providers willing to try their luck. Some will even bump other guys to go after this big spender. Never assume other providers have the same ethical standards as you do. Sad reality.
There is always the slight chance that this guy did have something terrible happen. I’m assuming you still haven’t heard from him. Give it a day or two. Maybe he’ll have a believable excuse and make it up to you.
What happened to you is infuriating. Let's us be frank and admit that some providers do the same thing; the boards are full of such complaints. Neither is justified. I have had to cancel at the very last minute on two occasions and always sent the fee because I knew I had already reserved the time. There was a truly great lady here in Philly who insisted on a deposit; she also took her commitments very seriously. Once she had made a date on the west coast and planned to fill up some time while there. She was unable to fill any other time there and two of her regulars wanted to see her here, each for evening long dates. While the trip cost her a lot for just one date and because she had to turn down two of her regulars, she kept the date. She could have returned the deposit, but felt she had made the commitment. Some ladies, as you know ask for a deposit for longer dates but not for shorter ones. I hope it works out for you.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 1:33:51 PM
just not right! It doesn't matter whether it's for an hour session & especially for an extended session. Some guys have no class. Sorry TA.
First of all I feel your pain (from a man's point of view and a business point of view) but the shoe does drop from the other foot. I've been steaming for over 2 weeks with the thought of posting my anger at what a provider had done to me. Your post made me want to give you an example from my end. I am a VIP member of TER and I think this is the best site for both sides of the table. It allows you ladies safety and good advertising and it allows us men a chance at safety and not being tricked into bad providers. What happended to me was maybe not as bad but still makes me angry (or taken for granted). It is two part. When I see a visiting lady advertise she is coming to my area (on the local board) and she is someone I would love to see, I send her a very nice informative email with my references, and when I would like to try and see them. I have taken the time to do that for 5 providers in the last 3 weeks with only "one" who wrote a very brief reply who still didn't "set" anything up with me. Then I schedule a well reviewed (8,9's) lady who is local and saw her for the 1st time. She was fantastic and so I set up another appointment with her for two weeks later. The night before the appointment she emailed me that she would have to cancle. Unexpected company coming in for a visit. I emailed her back and said that I understood and that could we do it the next week. She said sure. Then the next week she blew me off and said it would be the next week. In the meantime I see 2 reviews written for her that stated they had seen her for the days she blew me off. So now how do you think I feel. Taken advantage of of course. Now I don't know that I really want to see her anymore. I hate to tell you all the business I probably lost by putting off customers on the 1st "date" she was to see me cause I couldn't see them.
So although I do feel for you it does work both ways. No one (be it man/woman) likes being taken for granted. I do wish that this gentleman would've let you know it wasn't going to happen just like I wish the lady providers who show me the good maners to return my email's even if they say they can't see me.
Thanks for letting me vent too!!
is being / has been created by such behaviors, and also by lack of kindness and respect shown to clients by ladies whose primary "job" should be to make a client feel like he is special to her at least for the time of the date. If before and after the date you are treated with disrespect, that is too big a disconnect. Just plain sex you and I can "get" all over the place. There is no shortage of amateur ladies who want to be with an attractive well heeled middle aged man. Just plain tail goes for $100-200 a pop in DC. I don't see how a lady considers herself "GFE" and expects the 50-100% markup over just plain tail if she's going to be rude to her clients, treat them dismissively, or wave the business end of the enterprise under their noses. I have a one strike rule.
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 9:53:38 AM
You must have missed the chapter in Marketing 101 on how NOT to get new clients.
I, and I suspect others as well, stopped reading about half way through your tirade. If you don't care, then you're not a good business woman.
Ladies, never ever post when you cannot control your emotions, if you truly care about your business. With a little more effort, you could have written a post that got across essentially the same message, yet was professional.
This is more than a message board to some ladies, it's free advertising when used properly.
PS - I'm sorry that you were stood up. It happens far too often to both parties.
and many, many other marketing classes. The client base that I seek to attract appreciates my passion, insight, intelligence, and sophistication in writing. The gentlemen who don't, really are not suited for the kind of experience I provide and should seek the companionship of someone else.
I'm sorry that you did not find my post appealing. I'm sure that many other gentlemen will, based on my prior experiences posting.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 2:02:26 PM
If your dance card stays full then you made the right business decision. If business drops off dramatically then your decision might be better rethought.
I can speak only for myself, but I would NEVER send a deposit for a one or two hour session. My time is every bit as valuable as yours, to be honest I charge more for my time than you. I have been on the receiving end of NCNS on numerous occasions, so I do empathize, but I think you may rethink this decision in the very near future.
There's no excuse for a gentleman to no show/no call unless he's in the hospital. Period. End of story.
But after that, your post goes off the rails. The flaw in your logic is that sex is something that's available quite easily for free. The reason most guys decide to pay for it is to avoid drama.
We pay to get our rocks off. We don't pay to make you feel like a queen (well, at least most of us don't). We don't pay because we feel it's our job to take care of you. We don't pay because you're trying to "take what's yours."
Women who understand that making a man feel like a king is the fastest path to riches are the ones who are able to maximize their earning potential. And they don't have to worry about whether guys show up.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 1:21:02 PM
The men who have enjoyed my companionship have not only felt like a king...they are Kings. The point I made was the only way for you to really be a King is to act as one, and treat a lady with the respect and reverence owed to her. If you would like to continue having the cheap experience of "feeling like" something rather than actually BEING something, please do continue on your path. What I provide is REAL and LASTING. Do not think for a minute that any man has left my pressence feeling anything less than on top of the world.
You are incorrect in assuming that my experiences have not been deeply enjoyable, but many have been purely bliss. But no matter how wonderful a provider makes me feel, I'm smart enough to remember the nature of our relationship.
A healthy ego is a good thing. but too much of even a good thing......
So my rule, there are no providers I consider I have to see or I must see. So, I keep numbers of many providers handy and when the mood strikes I call one of them and go down the list. Three to four regular ones seem to do the job without drama and whole lot of complications.
I read providers adds very carefully and avoid everyone that superlatives not used describe human beings. There a lot of nice and attractive providers around.
I am with GA on this one, won't send deposit to anyone. If they cant trust me, I don't trust them either. You can tell a lot when you talk to someone. Attitude, Attitude and Attitude.
But I didn't really see the original post as being about why we pay as much as why we should be respectful of a lady's time.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 2:15:31 PM
I can't say that I disagree with any of it. As a rule I don't do deposits but I don't blame you for feeling that you have to ask for them. I've never no showed on an appointment and I take the booking of one very seriously as I know that if I cancel, even giving two or three days notice, I may well have caused a fav of mine to lose potential income from other sources.
I agree that there is a tendency for men to take this whole business too lightly. I have to be honest here and say that, unfortunately, there are also providers who do the same. I've never been NCNS but these boards are filled with stories from men who have. Still, I think the review process favors the customer as a quality lady is less likely to no-show than a customer is.
I'm assuming that this guy is now blacklisted with you and your community of escorts. If not, he certainly should be.
Thank you so much for taking your time and effort to show support for my posting. I will never stop being deeply moved by the kindness and support I receive from the gentlemen in this community. The compassion and empathy you express for the perspective of a provider is indicative of your true appreciation for who we are and what we contribute. Gentlemen who hold the same level of appreciation as you will not see anything wrong with giving a deposit, and will happily forfeit the deposit should they have to cancel last minute. The last thing you, or gentlemen like you, would want to do is cause a lady harm.
I'll put it this way - I will never visit a provider who requires a deposit unless it's a change in policy and I've been seeing her for a very, very long time.
I won't, for the same reason you expect the donation to be placed at the start of the date. Turnabout is fair play, yes?
With that said, his not showing up was an incredible disservice and you're quite right to be as upset as you are. I have never no-showed on a date and will never do so unless I'm physically incapable of doing so. I won't even schedule one unless I'm absolutely sure I can be there.
Step back. Remove your immediate emotional reaction to this event from the equation and ask yourself how you can best salvage your business for this weekend and this week. If this really is your business, then run it like one - do what all other businesses must do when unexpected events happen - adapt. And learn for next time.
For weekend trips and overnights I can definitely understand a deposit, especially in light of this event. But for normal dates I don't think they're appropriate.
As the old saying goes, don't put all your johns in one basket. To rely on one gent's appt is ridiculous. Always, ALWAYS have a back up plan. Cancelations are a part of business. Not just this one but all businesses that require appts.
In my humble opinion, unless it is an overnight or longer, or you are a VERY high dollar provider, requireing a deposit is business suicide. Sure, you will get the few that really really want to see you, but I guarntee you, there will be many more that WILL move onto the next provider.
There are many times when things legitimatly come up for the client and they need to cancel. Family, job, etc. If they see a lady requires a deposit for only a two hour visit, he may just pass and move on to another lady. Many of our clients do have busy jobs and families.
I have a few wonderful regulars that I see a couple times a month. But within that month they somtimes have to cancel due to work. I know if I charged them each time they canceled, I would probably no longer have them as clients.
Relax and move on.
modified for typos.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 1:34:08 PM
This is my standard statement when I am not happy with the choices or behavior of people in or out of the business .
I have come to find out that regardless of being right or wrong sometimes winning is losing and loser is in fact the winner.
There certainly are girls who require a deposit and it is completely within their right to do so . Others choose not to.
I personally think i would have chosen to simply post on my site ,assuming i had one , that I require a deposit and allow them to ask about it . I would have not have posted this. Not because you aren't right because of the light it shows and it isn't quite as beautiful as morning light on your face.
There is truly beauty in restraint The way we project ourselves regardless of motivation is not always just a matter of communication or expression. Although we all like to feel heard . I like to try and consider the perception aspect of what it is I am saying .I have found it isn't always what you say or how you say it , it is how they hear it that really matters . Your words and tone speak volumes .
Presenting yourself to future gentlemen who have yet to meet you in a way less than approachable may not be the best thing for you. I am not suggesting you do not go forward with your descion to ask for deposits .I am suggesting you don't make a big deal out of it if you don't want the guys to either
Hoping you have a good weekend ,
Kendall
Nah, No I don't. I just haven't spanked you lately. lol
Truth be told I agree with you completly.
Hope all is well.
Lol. I was about to ride in like the shining knight to her defense, because I agreed completely, only to find you were joking.
i sympathize entirely. you have incurred substantial "loss of opportunity costs". it is reasonable to insist on a deposit of sufficient size to cover a significant _fraction_ of the cost of the lost opportunities.
the deposit is a form of insurance. at eh entire cost of lost opportunity it would be too much but sharing the risk is reasonable. would thik that something in the range of 25%-50% of the weekend cost would not be unsound.
Hmmm this made me think - why don't we have ourselves an insurance company? I am sure it will do MUCH better then AIG! And inspections certainy will be more fun
Now, if I could only come up with a name ....
Lina
how about off-shoring the home office to japan so we could call it
Escort Assurance Transaction at Yokohama, EATatY, for short?
no really, it is a risk management problem
Not a bad name I must say!
Next time somebody I know tries to come up with corporate name .. I may stir them in this dierection ))
...Simply because he plainly stated the obvious.
A skill of an effective provider is articulating our concerns regarding our business (including our disappointments) in a manner which is genuine, accessible and appealing to our audience.
Though this post has been and will continue to be met with comments from those who recognize the value of the service professional's time you can't expect a post so intense and so laced with assumptions about what "real men" know to be true to stand without dissenting opinions.
Clients don't seek to be emasculated or reminded of the value of [their] "whores".
Clients seek the professional who can whisper her needs into his ear with a drop of honeyed sincerity, humility and quiet confidence.
Regarding the necessity of deposits:
I attempted to require deposits in my former market for standard appointments as a response to cancellations: it was business suicide.
I have garnered deposits for travel and long engagements; this is practical and recognized as reasonable.
Most professionals who bill hourly can assess fees for time lost and implement their policy by a reduced or terminated relationship in the event that we do not honor our contracted time.
We however cannot and my advice is that clients and providers alike simply "charge it to the game" in the happenstance of cancellations.
I have experienced one NC/NS in the past year which worked my nerves.
How do I stave this phenomenon off?
I make NEW clients cognizant of my time by booking them at my convenience- very seldom at theirs (i.e. the time and date they request on my reservation) even if it means losing an appointment in the immediate sense.
While my approach may not work for all it is up to providers and hobbyists alike to tweak their approach to how they book appointments to find an effective means of curtailing complication & inconvenience.
NS/NC are completely unacceptable. What happen to this lady was horrible. But many men (myself included) will be turned off by the tone of her post (others clearly won't).
the men who did feel emasculated by my post have been lied to about what defines their masculinity. ESPECIALLY, those that think that [OWNING] a woman is what makes them a man. You, as a woman, are not doing them any favors by reinforcing to them that lie because in doing that you deprive them of the experience of their true masculinity.
I do not ever have a need to shout at the gentlemen who enjoy my companionship. Believe me, when I whisper in their ear with honeyed sincerity it is not ever about what I need. By the time I am whispering in a gentleman's ear, he rarely is in a state to comprehend the meaning of, or distinguish the difference between words.
I did not post this message to make anyone feel badly. I posted this message to give opportunity and insight to those who lack it.
Again, some men will appreciate the qualities that I am able to to express about myself through my posting, and others won't. Doesn't bother me a bit if some don't because for every one that doesn't there is at least one that does. My companionship is not for everyone.
I have no issue with dissenting opinions. My issue should be clear. It is with the disrespect of women. His post was condescending and I called him out for it. If he wishes to disagree with me in a way that doesn't insult, degrade the value of, or attack me, I will be happy not to call him out for being disrespectful towards me.
The purpose of a message board is the exchange of ideas; the most valuable can be critical.
I haven't any idea of what you truly consider "masculine identity" nor do you have any idea of what I consider it to be.
However, what I do know is that by dismissively assuring everyone that the important clients "will just get it" you effectively alienate those who could consider you but choose not to because of your stubbornness and lack of empathy for those who engage in exchanges with you on this board.
Repeating with frequency your idea doesn't make it right. Considering all arguments and opinions objectively will help to arrive at an idea that is the closest to being right.
I am of the opinion that his post was not condescending but instead a critical evaluation of the aggressive tone of your thread.
I haven't anything further to contribute here.
If you can demonstrate to me how AceHoleIn1's post was specifically condescending I will consider your thoughts.
For the time being-
I do hope that you continue to get the feedback that you seek regarding deposits.
As another has noted it's a complicated way to arrive at the same result that diligent screening, confidence in those you choose to participate in your service and true knowledge of your guests/hosts can deliver.
I'm glad that someone has finally defined the reason I'm on earth..to care for women...you buy condoms and mouth wash wholesale.. you don't need to lecture me
While I understand your frustration there is another side to the coin...... I'm not suggesting anything is "the best way" I am only speaking for myself-
First, one must realize that when embarking into this business; a lady need to understand that it is unlike most other professions- you are, after all.... making your money based on the free time a man can afford to be away from his main routine. Now, especially when you start making reference to multiple hours and extended get-aways- men must have some level of success in order to be in a position to afford this type of extravagance. When unexpected situations arise.... as a professional you just have to roll with the flow. Now if there is nagging and bitching and attitude.. well, to be honest a guy can get that at home and not inconvenience his schedule or routine. Additionally, regardless of the compensation involved, I have never- nor will I ever, spend extended amounts of time with a gentleman unless I am confident I have enough information to feel comfortable with him. Meaning better and more extensive screening. An added amount of time investment is also required to familiarize yourself with a gentleman before planning an extended time alone with him. Even with additional care taken to protect yourself and give you confidence in the man you are meeting; things can still happen which will change his schedule. This is just part of the entire scenario that goes along with the business.
If you feel that requesting a deposit up front to feel more secure then that is a course you are free to take. However, all women don't feel that way, there isn't a union (*thank heavens*) and I make my own rules. I personally don't make appointments any longer with men who are strangers to me. I only book appointments and plan to spend time with men I have already met. However, even when I was meeting new friends I still didn't make it a habit of requiring a man to send me a deposit. My logic is- this entire business is based on fun, a break from the normal routine and an indulgence. The more complicated a provider makes the process.... the more the fantasy is lost. I don't consider the appointments I have and the time I spend with clients as their "normal" routine, so I don't want to encourage anything that makes it feel or seem that way.
I have also found that by screening and communicating with men, in the past.... I was more comfortable with the initial meeting and I had less cancellations and last minute changes because of that. Do what is best for yourself ...-but-.... experience will serve as evidence to my statement that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for everyone. As you gain more experience in the business, hopefully you will find the avenues that work best for you and provide you with the most success and the most happiness. I personally have a level of confidence and trust in my clients and I have no need to burden them with additional hassles- for me it all works out for the positive in the long run. Best wishes ~T
based upon the free time and free money of people. When an unexpected situation with a man's business or family occurs that does not allow him to go to a football game, does he get his money back for the ticket he purchased? And, notice, he had to purchase the ticket to reserve his seat at the game in the first place. Nobody calls having to purchase a ticket for the game ahead of time and then not getting a refund for your ticket because the game has suddenly inconvenienced you, nagging and bitching or giving attitude. That is just standard, normal, good business practice.
Now, I know that requiring deposits have not been successful for providers in the past, which is why I felt the need to explain in my post why deposits are necessary. If something about an industry is broken, fix it. Why resign to it being broken?
I am really happy that as a provider of 13 years you enjoy so much success that you don't need to see new clients. That gives us all hope for our future and certainly makes me feel better today that this can be a lucrative venture. I do not take your wisdom and advice for granted ... on the contrary I take it to heart and will definitely implement even more screening than the 3 hours of time I spent screening this guy before booking the time with him.
However, some really great providers have not been doing this for 13 years and have not already developed a large client base of gentlemen with whom we have confidence. Those of us who are new in the industry need some way of protecting ourselves and our business.
You are right, what works for some, will not work for all. I never suggested that ALL providers do this nor did I suggest we unionize. I suggested some will. It would be very nice to have the support of other providers, whether they do or don't require deposits themselves.
That support from other providers would be statements that: affirm the value of our time and our business; do not support men in feeling justified in last minute cancellations or nc/ns by affirming for them that we are just a fantasy that isn't worthy of basic consideration; do not frame basic considerations and generally normal business practices in terms of hassles and complications; and do not express resignation for the way things are simply because that is the way things have always been done.
What providers are getting paid for is to keep what happens behind the bedroom door and to protect their clients-
The absurdity of believing a man can tell his wife- no I have a deposit with a provider I have to go is a HUGE difference than reminding her he had $300 football tickets- (* keep it real here*)
I stand by my post and my thoughts.... another point to mention here is when I was "new to the business" I was not offering suggestions,I was just trying to learn- YOu made the post and I offered my thoughts- Take it for what it's worth ~T
the way he can remind her that he had $300 football tickets. I just don't think that it is me who should suffer a loss or feel the consequences because of it. Why should I be responsible for his circumstances changing with his wife? Does his circumstances changing have anything to do with the fact that now my time is wasted and my opportunities are lost? Of course I understand that things come up and plans need to change. I am just asking that if they do, then I not solely bare the buren of the change. A deposit is not the full amount of the appointment. I still loose, even with a deposit.
I try to learn everyday Tori. It's a very difficult industry to learn. Unfortunately, I haven't found your publication or the publication of any other, on how you or they managed to build a client base of people that never cancel and never nc/ns. So, I am forced to come up with crazy ideas like implementing standard business practices as a result.
It bothers me a great deal when I see other providers struggeling with the same issues that I am, yet no solution to universal problems is offered. It's not acceptable to me to be resigned to disrespectful treatment of myself or any other woman.
As I said in my original response to you, I value your wisdom a great deal. Please stand up and share it. But when your words are reflective of resignation and acceptance of us all being disrespected and devalued, I will continue to offer you a different perspective and a different solution.
Tori that was beautifully written. That is just another reason why I feel so fortunate to have spent time with you. I wish it would have been much, much longer.
Thank you for the thought- it is good to see you posting on the general discussion board.... please take care & stay well.
I'll make it back to Chicago (*right now I am just enjoying the sand and sun too much*) but I do know when I return to Chicago I'll need friends to help keep me warm, so you know I'll look for you!
kisses ~T
While you seem very smart and articulate you would have been better served but posing the question of how to handle the situation rather than ranting and raving and jumping to numerous conclusions.
You were obviously counting the money before the week-end adventure. The old saying goes if it sounds too good to be true it probably is!
The reasonable business person ALWAYS plans for the worst to happen.
A deposit for a week-end would have been prudent.
A deposit for a 2 hour meeting at least for me NEVER!!!
If you don't change your policy quickly my bet is you will see a big fall-off in your business.
If I were a sweet guy
and booked an appointment with you ...
and then read only 1/3 of what you have spewed and splattered all over TER's boards -in multiple cities, on same days, some none of your business or true ...and all with that Giant Glaring head shot, at the end of everyone of them...plahh-
I just might NSNC on you too.
As articulate and well written your posts may be...
They have an offensive and vulgar vibe to them and leave me with an overwhelming icky feeling... about you.
NCNS have happend only 1 time to me in 10 years.
It's something you are projecting.
However- Last week I had the most cancellations and re-schedules and mix-ups I've ever had.
But-
That was only because the amazing miss amada leigh was visting los angeles and hogging all the TER members.
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 6:10:05 AM
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 6:59:29 AM
IT'S SO ABOUT TIME THIS WAS SAID! RIGHT ON! AND I'M SO SORRY THIS HAPPENED TO YOU TA, FANTASTIC POST, AND I HOPE THE GENTLEMEN TAKE HEED IN WHAT THIS WOMAN SAID...FOR SOME OF THE PROVIDERS HERE, THIS IS A CASH AND CARRY BUSINESS WITH NO CONTRACTS, NO SIGNATURES ONLY BASICALLY A "HAND SHAKE" PROMISE OF CARRYING YOUR END OF THE DEAL, AND A PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME, THIS NONSENSE HAPPENS AND IT MIGHT NOT BE A BIG DEAL TO YOU, BUT IT'S A VERY HUGE DEAL TO THE PROVIDER YOU BOOKED, A PHONE CALL TAKES 5 SECS AND GOES A VERY LONG WAY!
AND IF YOUR FOOLISH TO THINK THIS ISN'T GOING TO BITE YOU IN THE ASS AND MAYBE EFFECT YOU SEEING THE WOMAN OF YOUR DREAMS NEXT TIME AROUND YOUR OUT OF YOUR MIND... BECAUSE IT WILL!
Jay
that are in your control. You do not need to go out of your way to alienate the many fine gentlemen on the board.
don't make overnight / weekend dates with folks that you do not have a lot of experience with. Most ladies wont.
Blacklist them if they NCNS you. Mention this on the providers only board. Do what you need to do to protect each other by passing information.
But do remember that the overwhelming majority of us can have all of the sex we want if it's drama we're looking for.
Oh, was your caps lock button stuck? If not perhaps your enthusiasm carried you away. I'd hate to think you were capable of being so rude, given the many fine posts I've read of yours....
than many of the ladies make in a typical year or two. We have choices about where and how we spend that money. I think that the gent who stood you up should be pillared, black listed, and roasted in salt. But I for one will date ladies that treat me with appreciation and respect, realize that I have other choices, and do not go out of their way to remind me that this is a business.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 3:46:24 PM
Very well said. There's enough anxiety over this anyways without feeling like a cog in the machine.
I don't blame the OP for being angry....I am sure for an entire weekend it was a substantial amount of money.....I just think she should have vented on the provider board where none of us could see it.
My 2 cents.
I imagine that you never nc/ns on a date and that if you had to cancel on a lady at the last minute it would be your pleasure to compensate her for the loss. I find it hard to believe that you would argue against the value of a lady's time or that she should be respected. As a result, no lady would need to treat you with a business like attitude. Unfortunately, there are too many men who do not follow your fine example and cause harm to the very women you woud never want to see hurt.
And, your point about some gentlemen loosing more in the market place in the last few months than what we make in a year or two just goes to prove the point I was making. What we make in a year or two is pittens to what we should be making, given our value in the market. The only reason we are not making an amount more equivalent to our value is that we have allowed men not as considerate and gracious as you to treat us as something of little or no value.
many of these ladies make far more per year than the men they see!
Don't belittle them, many of the ladies have lost their share of money in the market as well.
For every well off man on this board you will find one scrapng pennies to see his favorite. The same would hold true for the ladies. Not everyone has the same stake in this hobby... there are numerous reasons for people enjoying this.
If I were to indulge in such generalizations as you made in your post. I would say anyone who lost a dime in this down swing of the market...does not care about their money and chooses not to pick investment managers correctly! I am up 91% over the last 3 months! Good money manegers saw all this banking and finace crap coming 6-12 months ago. And commodities like oil did not climb and fall overnight! Pretty horrible generalizations... since I would bet the majority of the people in the market lost money...only a marginal few are making money! Like everything else in life...an investor gets what he/she pays for...pay a manager an upfront fee...no incentive for them to earn you a return...now pay them soley on your return...they work hard or don't get a dime!
providers! I'm sure many providers do make more than some of the gentlemen that they see. I'm sure I make more than some of the gentlemen that I see. That fact is completely irrelevent to the point that I make that what we make is mere pittens compared to the value we have on the market...even the providers that make more than some of the clients they see don't generate enough income to compensate for gross disparity between value on the market and money earned.
it did not apply to anything you said! I did respond to your post below though....I am not talking sides...I asked some questions and provided feedback to your post.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 8:49:10 PM
It's getting difficult to ascertain who is saying what to whom is this thread. I apologize for the misunderstanding and appreciate you responding thoughtfully. I answered your questions below.
The guys I see make way more then me. Sara
I've been taking deposits for years. I would never carve out the amount of time you discussed without one. I learned a long time ago that the frustration that is similar to what you are feeling now just ends up effecting my business in other ways because of how it wears on my overall outlook. It's not fair to the other wonderful men that are out there...
Do I have people *not* schedule with me as a result of my deposit policy?? Absolutely...but I still have enough business for me to take care of myself the way I want, and that is all that really matters.
I will say that I do try and work with people that contact me but are uncomfortable making deposits (but only for shorter requests for my time). There are always exceptions, and one set of circumstances might not be the same as another. I cannot always accomodate those that can't make deposits, but I do understand how and why someone might not want to... I find in most instances, though, that if they want to see me bad enough they figure out how to make it happen.
While I do agree with you to some extent that women, and men's pursuit and need of what women provide, IS a huge part of what makes the world go 'round, I would never take that gift for granted. Respect is a two way street in ALL circumstances, and both sides must always remember that.
It's a fine line in running one's business in a professional manner, without becoming too difficult to schedule with... Keep in mind that whatever you do, make sure to have as many options as you can to help try and accomodate the discretionary needs of our guys out there. Without them, we would be probably working a job that is not as much fun...
My best to you in all that you do!
xoM
Agree with you on ALL points...especially your points about not taking the gift for granted and respect being a two way street. Your posting serves as a model example of what providers who value themselves, the contribution we make, and the gentlemen to whom we provide companionship could create for ourselves if we choose to do so. Thank you for the contribution you made through your thoughtful reply. At the very least, it made a huge impact on my heart.
Regarding a requirement of deposits...
1)How is this done?
2)What if you cancel after deposit is made?
3)Is the deposit for ALL appointmenst with you or only long term ones?
General questions...
1)If a guy has to aquire the location...should he then require a deposit from the lady so he does not get stuck with a bill?
2)Since we all pay for time and nothing else...if the time is cut short, should the guy then ask for a refund if the lady has already accepted the donation?
Obviously everyone has their own way of handling things...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regarding a requirement of deposits...
1)How is this done? I have a variety of options, none of which I care to share publicly. Suffice it to say that I have options for most any discretionary need, including paper trail free if needed.
2)What if you cancel after deposit is made? If I have to cancel (which is very rare), deposits are refunded in full.
3)Is the deposit for ALL appointmenst with you or only long term ones? Considering most of my appointments are on tour, and therefore when I have overhead expenses because of being away from home, I require a deposit for all reserved appointnments. Exceptions are always made for gentlemen in my VIP Club, as those are clients that I have more established relationships with (plus it's one of the benefits of the club).
General questions...
1)If a guy has to aquire the location...should he then require a deposit from the lady so he does not get stuck with a bill? I personally prefer incall, so it is extremely rare for me to do outcall. (I may have done outcall twice in the past 5 years.) In the event that something unexpected would come up last minute where a gentleman incurred extra expenses and lost money, I would figure out a fair way to make that up to him depending on what worked best for him (reimbursing him or discount on our rescheduled date).
2)Since we all pay for time and nothing else...if the time is cut short, should the guy then ask for a refund if the lady has already accepted the donation? Time is never cut short by me, so this is a non-issue. If a client has to leave early for his own reasons (which I've only had happen when unexpected circumstances came up), money is not refunded.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I always welcome questions regarding any of my policies, and understand that sometimes two people may have two different comfort levels that don't match. Luckily there are plenty of options for each side to choose from, so no one should ever have to feel as though they need to compromise their own comfort at any time.
May we all find what we are looking for out there...
xoM
your viewpoint on your methods. Being a travel lady..I can truly see the need for deposits. I have never made a deposit, thus my curiosity as to how it works. I guess I will learn if the need arises.
Outside of that...you look at things as it pertains to you. You are comfy with reimbursing a guy if anything would happen that you would not be able to keep the appointment once the deposit was made.
What recourse would a man have if the lady skipped? ladies have our real names place of work and such, guys have nothing. You see it as no need for worry as you are a up front and honest person and very dependable. I see it as the same way. I have never NCNS a lady but have had it done to me twice by same lady. I have only cancelled with a lady once and that was 9 days prior to our scheduled appointment. I am guessing I would not have even sent you a deposit that far in advance. On the other hand I have been cancelled on well over 100 times for various reasons. Through better screening I have limited my cacellations to maybe 3-4 in last 6 months.
I did stop doing outcalls because of the 18 times I did get a hotel only 8 ladies showed and I was out the full bill the other 10 times. I dont schedule more than one a day so it kinda sucked. That was my reason for asking what a guy should do in those situations as there are a few ladies I would love to see that only do outcall.
It is the same with the shorting of time...through reading reviews I have been able to eliminate most of those over time. At the beginning it was get me off fast and leave...now I know how to look for that and aviod it through reviews. Of course there is no action I know that a guy can take if a lady does this to him. For you to require deposits you do have an answer for your issues. Any ideas how to prevent speed date ladies. Or the guy just has to ive with it as new ladies come and go....or simply only stick with well reviewed ladies. tough for the new diamonds to get started if everyone sticks to the well reviewed peoples.
Thanks for your response..it is a curious topic for me on specifics of a different way of scheduling and preventing issues.
When a lady takes a deposit then doesn't show, if she doesn't get the deposit back to you ASAP this should be shouted from the rooftops. In a reveiw, in the city she was visiting, and in her home area. I take my reputation, including my integrity, VERY seriously. A review or public posting about ripping someone off like that would most certainly hurt someone's business. Yes, a girl *could* just change her name to try and renew her rep, but there are plenty of guys that are on top of such scams, and she would always be running from that.
In regards to your outcall dilemma, I suggest you communicate your concern with any of those ladies and ask them how they think you should approach the situation... If they require you be in a room before they come to you, you could be close to the hotel at a pre-appointed confirmation (maybe right before they leave to come see you), then after confirming that all is still a go you could then get the room and have them call through the hotel to confirm your room. Granted, it would still suck to waste your time to get close to the hotel then have someone cancel, but not as bad as if you lost out on the hotel fee also. The other thing is you could convey your concerns (and your past history) about girls cancelling then you eating the cost of the room, and ask them what they would do if that happened *upfront*. Having that conversation, no matter what the girl may say, should give you additional information about how comfortable you are trusting that she will show up.
In regards to shorting of time, while a confrontation at the time of the session may not lead to a pleasant ending, you absolutely have the right to say, "Hey...our hour isn't up yet. If you want to cut it short, does that mean I am getting part of my money back, or should I include all of this in my review??" Some girls may try and argue semantics or other BS ("my special rate was only for one shot...") but more then likely most girls would snap back into shape to say, "Oh, you want another round??" It's important to try and keep the tone as light as possible if you actually DO want another round, as tension does not make for a good aphrodisiac... :-/
I think seasoned gentlemen know how to read between the lines on how a girl presents herself (in website as well as her direct communications), and also in her reviews to sense who is and who isn't professional with these details. For those that only like seeing new ladies...well, that is part of the trade off I guess in getting the fresh meat. If you don't like that gamble, stick with reviewed ladies that have worked to maintain their reputations verses a potential fly by night flake/rip off. There will always be guys out there to TOFTT where new girls are concerned, as some enjoy the gamble part as an equally exciting component in the adventures of our world.
I hope that helps, and good luck to you!
xoM
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 3:28:01 AM
I do not hold every provider accountable for the actions of the very few who might not treat me appropriately. Nor do I expect to be harangued about the (I hope) few f**&&ing idiots who mistreat the providers. If we all are so bad, I would not blame you if you changed careers.
We do have a way to warn each other AFTER THE FACT about a provider who rips us off or is a problem in some way. That is good for the business of the rest of the ladies who provide such excellent service.
I am frankly surprised if / that you do not have a way also to communicate about clients who harm you in any way, threaten you or short you. In fact I know of several ways that you can do this.
I am totally in favor of providers developing the means to sort out the good clients from the bad. I am a good client and I'd rather not have to compete with idiots for the time and attention of ladies I might want to see. That is bad for the business from both of our perspectives.
I am totally in favor of each individual lady setting her policies and terms as she wishes. However, be aware that this is a free and competitive marketplace. And it is the client who makes the choice about who he will or will not see, based in part on those terms. That's just the way it is. The client chooses to spend the money with whom he will.
Do you want to remind us how hurtful it is to be treated that way? Please feel free. But presentation is everything. And this presentation leaves much to be desired...
In any business, it rarely pays to insult or patronize the client base.
that was not my intention. My intention was to explain to people why it is necessary, and what the justification is, behind why I and some ladies feel the need to charge a deposit. I felt the need to explain and justify because of the resistance to deposits providers have been met with in the past. My hope was that gentlemen like you, who always show up and think that most guys do, would not be insulted by the new deposit requirements as a result of your new understanding of the harm that is being done to the women who you value greatly.
I guess you do not know the extent of how much this goes on and just how harmful it is, otherwise you would not be using words like "few". It is not just a few Gregory. It is many, many, many. Way more of them than there are of you. Sad, but true.
In the short time I have been a provider, I could not possibly begin to keep track of all of the men who have nc/ns or cancelled last min on just me alone! I couldn't imagine trying to keep track of everyone's nc/ns list. The number would be astounding. WE (unlike hobbyists who have TER) do not have a system where one can just punch in a telephone number into one widely used database to find out if a guy is even a physical threat to us, let alone a financial threat.
For me to blacklist a guy and ensure the physical safety of other providers because he has caused me harm (which thank God has never happened) takes going to ten or more boards and posting the information. A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT. If I did that with every nc/ns, I would spend all of my time posting nc/ns only for a mere few providers to actually find and use the benefit of the information. None of the boards that I am aware of for providers to use allow for a quick search like that. If there is, the fact that I don't even know about the board after 9 months of providing is indicative of how useful it is.
So, an AFTER THE FACT method might be an ok thing for me, if we had a universal board that all providers utilized whose data base was as easily searchable and fully functional as TER's. But we do not.
And, in fact, the one time that I tried to utilize the provider only board to warn the other providers of the disrespectful behavior of a guy towards another provider, I was met with blatent and open hostility from the other providers. Mainly, that nobody wanted to be bothered with the disrespect of another provider and that we all have to look out for ourselves.
I spent an entire evening defending myself against THEIR attacks for trying to warn them that they could have a negative experience if they chose to see this man. You can see for yourself in this thread that there are some providers who accept and support openly disrespectful behavior ... some who can not even see blatent condescending attidues.
I have since learned that there are small networks of providers who share information and try to protect each other. But really Gregory, no way could the system that is currently available to us function as an AFTER THE FACT way to hold guys accountable for nc/ns.
Also, and I say this sincerely, I really want to know what offended YOU about my posting. If you would extend me the generosity of your time, please pm me and explain what I said that was so offensive and insulting. You are the last person I would expect this kind of resistance from. In fact, I was sure you would have been the first person to respond to my post in support. From our previous interactions on the board and from reading your other postings, I really didn't think that explaining the value of women and why they should be respected would in any way offend you. You have always supported people being considerate and respectful of each other.
it requires appreciation and respect from all concerned parties.
And this board is of great value to many. I hope that mutual respect, civility, courtesy and good judgment will continue to prevail.
I understand your want for respect as well as appreciate your views of the value of the women here.
It does strike me as off that it is so important to you that others understand it as well though. If you know your value and your clients do as well , why then a need to get on the box?
I feel the post actually devalued you . I believe and always have
respect is commanded and not at all demanded.
The post regardless of if it is intentiona makes me personally question my ability to empathise with you .
The sterotyping of the men and assumption that all want to be King is really something that lays heavy on me for starters. The idea that you are a queen to your kings as it maybe is really sort of degrading alienating as well as is your need for appreciation of the value of your time etc. they know the value of your time as you have put a number on it .
The post would appear to be ego driven , demeaning and short sighted . Among other things . It made me think you might be new to be honest . I do not say that to insult you honestly it is the thought I had thou.
As it turns out you have an education good for you , that's great , but the post makes you appear socially inept .
62 personality types but all lead to one man prototype?? Or only the ones that fit the profile are to enjoy their time with you and your value is so....... let me stop there .
The fact is your time is not more vaulable than anyone elses . I promise you that .The man not showing was disrespectful . No doubt but this is rant was is too much really...
If your want is to be preceived as a queen my suggestion is to act as if until you become as if.
You have one page of reviews and they are really fairly good but this .. over the top and very unattractive. There are girls with pages upon pages of glowing reviews .
I know my value I do not have an overwhelming need for anyone else to . That isn't important to me . I find those that do differentiate themselves .We do not need to rally , lobby , solicitate opinion or otherwise debate our value .
I am seriously sorry I don't want to flame you but it is bothering me now.
I hated your post .I feel terrible for saying so .
Regards ,Kendall
e
It was directed to Torrid . I appologise for the confusion . Kendall
I must admit that I never post here at this board but was searching for somthing and came across this post.
All I can say is well said, and well written. I am sorry that this happened to you.
I would like to know why his TER Name has not been given out for everyone to see, that way other ladies can avoid him like the plague
If a lady was to do this, her TER handle would have been posted and the guy's would be screaming from the mountain tops.
ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, require a deposit. It weeds out the boys from the men.
-- Modified on 11/1/2008 5:13:46 PM
....to expose the gents name and info. That is what the ladie's board is for. Besides that....the incident didn't even happen to the original poster of this post. It was posted by someone else on our board. This person took it upon herself to make the post here.
Either way, we've ALL had gents cancel. BFD. I am NOT going to punish the masses for the mis-deeds of a very few. I also don't think that canceling with accptable notice should be 'punished'. Shit happens. Life happens. Don't tell me a provider has never had to cancel. Over twenty years in the biz and I must confess, I've had to cancel a time or two. I'm very relieved the gents didn't see fit to flame and or backcharge me!!!
This is NOT the place to 'expose' a gent for canceling an appt for cripe's sake. Let's be realistic here please. This is definatly not good provider ettiquette.
The original poster on the po board was not me. I responded in support of her original post with my own experience, which is the one I described above. And, you are correct. This is not the place to expose his information. Nor would I ever do such a thing. I am glad that only a few do this to you. That is not the experience I have had nor is it the experience of many many other providers.
I didn't specify where or which board, but it SHOULD be somewhere, where a girl can be informed.
I could care less if it was posted originally by someone else. Read it again.
The guy NEVER called to cancel !! Etiquette,,, where was his ??
I apologize that I did not acknowledge it in my prior post. I think that it is quite clear from your posts that nc/ns is something that you have experienced yourself enough to effect you greatly, and seen others experience at the same level as well. I don't understand why this is ok for any of you guys to watch what this does to us. Or, why its ok to shun a woman for being angry when she is disrespected.
No problem. You are mistaken. I have NEVER had a cancellation at the last minute, nor have I ever had a no show.
I have had people cancel with plenty of notice, and they receive their deposit back, unless they instruct me to keep it for a future meeting.
I am passionate about this issue, because I am fully aware of the ramifications it presents to a provider, and frankly, I have no patience for somone who feels they can just not show up.
The bullshit that some people spew and think it is OK to do so, or to think it's OK to treat a provider as a second class citizen, just pisses me off to no end.
Regarding a requirement of deposits...
1)How is this done?
2)What if you cancel after deposit is made?
3)Is the deposit for ALL appointmenst with you or only long term ones?
General questions...
1)If a guy has to aquire the location...should he then require a deposit from the lady so he does not get stuck with a bill?
2)Since we all pay for time and nothing else...if the time is cut short, should the guy then ask for a refund if the lady has already accepted the donation?
I would think it would be easier for a visiting porn star to require a deposit than a lady that resides in that market.
I'm probably the typical frequent hobbyist. I've sent deposits to 2 or 3 women over the years, but I see dozens of ladies a year and have 6-10 cancellations or NS/NC a year (shit happens, I understand) which is why I would never do deposits for all my appointments. The last thing I'd want to do is to turn into a collection agency. I don't want to spend a lot of time and energy trying to get a bunch of deposits back from providers. I'd quickly stop hobbying.
Your deposit might work for you since you're in such high demand, but it won't work as well for the typical lady. The other ladies posting on this thread have made that clear.
I have several regular ladyfriends, and I am already set up to meet two new ladies. I will keep those commitments. After that, I am not going to see any new ladies until the bitter taste of this post is forgotten. I will enjoy the company of the ladies who show that they appreciate me, and my hard earned money. They already know that I treat them well, and are always happy to see me. No hassles, no stresses no drama. If I want drama I'll troll the clubs on U street.
I'm curious as to why?? You've posted numerous thoughts and responses...on various parts of the discussion. Of course it's great to have people share their thoughts and perspectives, but you seem to have gotten really caught up in this topic. There is really no need to get TOO worked up over someone venting about NC/NS's or the idea of deposits...all that will do is taint your own experiences by reading too much into comments made by people you may never cross paths with anyway. Too often a few comments get posted publicly and people get all worked up that somehow things are going to change for them, when the reality is that we each make our own experience out of this by the choices we make ourselves (not what is posted about on the boards). Keep marching to the beat of your own drum...no need for reactionary declarations... Keep making choices that suit your needs, and keep those doors open to all the fun and adventure that there is to be had out there!
Much love,
xoM
To understand this, I suppose, you would have to be able to experience the latter half of the lady's post from the perspective of an old world European gentleman who has been in this lifestyle for over thirty years. I have never read or heard anything so intrinsically offensive associated with this sport. Blech.
I fully support the lady's right to charge as she wills and to require deposits if she wishes. If she had left it at that I could have cared less.
If you get emotionally caught up in every conversation you will take away from the joy that should be the focus of our activities. Why be offended at a comment (or comments) that were not directed at you?? It was just a gentle reminder to not let others tensions seep into your life when there is no need for them to be there in the first place.
My best to you,
xoM
but rather preference. I have an established basis in trust with the ladies I have seen regularly. If I am to understand that mistrust and suspicion is going to be the new standard operating procedure, if I am going to be lumped in with the (hopefully few) "men" who behave in the manner described in the original post, I am going to restrict my hobbying to ladies I already know and am comfortable with. I do not need the grief. And I suspect I am not alone in this- I've had quite a few PM responses from gents who have said, basically, "what a wonderful idea - I'll join you".
I understand why you would assume that "mistrust and suspicion" are what motivates deposits, especially given the tone in the original post of this thread. I have had a number of men assume that is my reasoning also, and get offended when I restate my deposit policy that is listed on my site when they are trying to schedule.
But it is NOT PERSONAL...it is not a reflection of me questioning the honor of a person that is a complete stranger (as I know little to nothing of that person one way or another), but rather it is a simple, pro-active approach on risk reduction with my business. Had there not been a reason to start this policy back in 2001, I certainly would not be going through the extra hassel...
Some ladies view cancellations and no-shows as a part of the business, and just assume and deal with that as an inevitable. For me, I structure my business differently, as I do not like living in the chaos that can be created with that...case in point: what helped create the original post in this thread.
I just wanted to make an additional point about mistrust vs. being pro-active from a business sense in hopes that you would be able to see another side that is less offensive to you.
Regards,
xoM
edit to add PS: I hope you don't think I'm taking you to task too much on all of this, but I don't think you are alone in some of what you said, and I thought it was a great opportunity to talk about pro-active reasons for deposits verses a more punitive approach. Not that it makes a difference in your choice of who you might see, but rather, I hope it makes you and possibly others feel less offended so as to create a more harmonious respect of each others choices.
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 12:00:07 PM
it would have led to more positive results I think.
Cheers
Gregory
I know the less emotionally reactive I am the more I enjoy life. Then I have the freedom to choose to feel my positive emotions at a much deeper, intense, beautiful level. My goal is freedom from anxiety, worry, fear, and anger. Unrealistic in this lifetime maybe but it is my intent.
Thanks for reminding me of this with your two posts because it's something I want to improve on each and every day.
I am grateful to those that help remind me, so that I can also pay that forward. We all need each other to keep that cycle going...
Much love,
xoM
Tori's post about "romanticizing" put my not very well formed thoughts into very well formed words. Her post describes the reason for my investment in this topic. Cheers - Gregory
Is there an issue you have? Please share with the rest of us the personal torches you carry.
Seems to me you've been aplogizing a lot for being such a wench only to take shots a provider who no longer exisits. Feel better now?
AR
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 11:07:39 PM
Regarding your gentleman that cancelled...
1)Had you seen him before?
2)If not, do you on the norm have a policy in place of short appointments before extended stays?
3)If no to #2 do you plan to put that in place for the future?
Regarding a requirement of deposits...
1)How is this done?
2)What if you cancel after deposit is made?
3)Is the deposit for ALL appointmenst with you or only long term ones?
General questions...
1)If a guy has to aquire the location...should he then require a deposit from the lady so he does not get stuck with a bill?
2)Since we all pay for time and nothing else...if the time is cut short, should the guy then ask for a refund if the lady has already accepted the donation?
3)Do you require 24 hour and one hour advance confirmation on your appointments?
Observations from afar...
1)A complete stranger to you sends you and request for time with promises of appointments with a secret group of friends attached...that sends up red flags alone.
2)The fact that this person says this secret group will pay you MORE than you currently ask, to me sounds like a complete falacy...I have never heard of a guy volunteering to increase a ladies going rate.
3)It sounds to me like you were set up for a fall from the start...maybe I am more synical than most...but I do not think that was happening from the word go.
Insight from my end...
I have only been around for twenty months and have a review posted for every lady I have seen. I have never NCNS a lady ever but have been NCNS twice by the same lady....lesson learned. My only NCNS was from a lady with above average scores(8-10) with no contact after the second of two NCNS in consecutive days with apology or wanting to compensate me for my 3 hours of driving time and gas(twice). I learn and move on...even though it upset me at the time. Both times she NCNS I confirmed 1 hour before appointed time with no problem.
I have cancelled an appointment only once and that was 9 days in advance of our meeting. I have been cancelled on well over 100 times by the ladies. Many times these cancellations have been when I called my 1 hour before to confirm and sometimes even after that. That one hour confirmation has saved me a lot of gas money and frustrations, I reccomend it to both sides.
Sometimes practices have to be changed...I stopped doing outcall entirely because of the 18 times that I attained a room to meet just one lady...I only had 9 show up, the rest cancelled and I ate the cost of the hotel. It is near impossible for me to perform well enough to set 3 appointment within one hotel stay to assure I actually have a succesful occurance. So I know what a lady has to deal with if all three of her appointmenst or how ever many she might schedule in a day would cancel. However, I think it is far less probable that a lady go o-3 or more in a day than a guy does going o for 1.
I do hope that what ever decissions you make, they work out for the best for you. I do think that there is more than one answer to the frustration you came across this week end.
but I did not want to be the first to say so. If it's too good to be true, it is. Usually if someone is going to give you volume business they ask for a discount. Nobody offers more than the asking price. Especially not in this economy. I'm sorry for the lady that she got "taken", but she should not blame her lack of business acumen (ie gullibility) on the hobbyist in general.
You are right. I am gullible to believe that you have sincerely been a respectful gentleman and admirer of women. For you to insult ME and hold ME accountable for the dishonorable actions of a man tells me everything I need to know about you. Your point about my being gullible could have been made much more gracefully, if it needed to be made at all. Of course I don't know what all of the red flags are when I deal with guys in this industry. There are so many of them, how could I possibly have learned them all in the short time I have been providing?
I screened this gentleman for 3 hours (which is more of my time that was wasted). I spent time checking his references, talking with him on the phone, checking his employment, searching the many boards for information about him. Everything he told me about himself checked out to be legitimate. What reason did I have to think that someone of this caliber would have time to waste or get his rocks off by setting up a provider to have no dates for the weekend?
And, quite frankly Gregory, many men offer me more than my asking price when they tip me generously...sometimes as much as my rate. He is not the first to suggest to me that I was not charging enough for what I provide, directly or indirectly. So, when he offered me more than the asking price if things went well this weekend, it did not seem unusual to me.
Now on the other hand, a man asking me for a discount sends up huge red flags about what a jerk he is.
If nc/ns were something rare, that occurred as infrequently as what you are trying to portray it to be, then I could see how it would be offensive for me to take a broad policy stance about how hobbying should be. But as I said, this happens frequently across the board - not just to me, but to many providers. Perhaps it does not happen to well established providers who have their client base in place, they are not in a similarly situated position as someone just beginning in the industry. And perhaps they have forgotten that they too, experienced a lot of nc/ns before being able to finally weed out the jerks to come to a large client base of men who respect their time.
I made it clear in my original posting and throughout this thread that I was not speaking to the fine gentlemen who do treat women with respect. I have never waivered in my appreciation of gentlemen who do treat me and other women with respect. I have always gone to extremes to express my appreciation for even the smallest gesture of kindness or respect shown to me by anyone in this community, including you Gregory.
I don't understand why you have received so many NC/NS. It sounds like you need to work on your screening skills. I have been around for about 3 years and have yet to have a NC/NS. (touch wood)
tone is insulting to many men and clients? I'm done with this now.
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 11:01:56 AM
I had not seen the man before. As a new provider, it is not uncommon for me to spend time with a gentleman that I have not seen before. I am always looking to expand my client base, especially to gentlemen who seek commitments beyond the short appointment and are looking for an experience that extends over time. If they are seeking the longer appointments and/or longer term experiences with me, that indicates to me that their needs better fit the experience that I prefer to offer and am best at providing.
The longer appointments and experiences that extend over the long term maximize the contribution that I can make and the gifts I have to offer. The quality of experience that I can provide to a gentleman spending longer periods of time with me over the long term is significantly different. I am able to learn more about him and his needs and build a better connection in order to meet those needs.
Given that quality of experience is way more important to me than quantity, or even money, it would not make sense to me to place priority on short appointments over long appointments. Nor would it make sense to me to give priority to gentlemen who seek short term appointments.
I think deposits will be required for all appointments with me, with my minimum appointment being longer than average.
Perhaps you are correct with your observations from afar about the promise of connecting me with friends being a red flag. I did not see the red flag because obtaining a referral base through word of mouth seems normal and logical to me. Some of my clients have already come to me in that mannor.
I also did not know that it was not normal for a guy to suggest that a provider should be charging more than what she charges because that is something that I have heard directly from many of my clients and indirectly from all of them through the generous tips I receive. My tips are sometimes as much as my entire rate.
You could be right that this was not happening from the word go, but I did as thorough of a screening as I know to do on a gentleman, including calling the Ritz directly, getting connected to his suite, and having him answer the phone.
Yes, I require 24 and one hour confirmation on all of my appointments. Nothing is really salvaged when the appointment is not confirmed an hour before. This has the same effect as nc/ns. This appointment was confirmed less than 24 hours beforehand. When I did not receive the hour beforehand confirmaiton call and could not reach the man, at that point I knew that it was a nc/ns.
If the time is cut short by the guy because he has gotten all that he wants from the experience or because he can not stay for the entire time he scheduled, then no, he should not get a refund. Again, he scheduled the time and should pay for time he reserves, which causes the provider the inability to generate income from other sources during his reserved time.
However, if a provider cuts the time short for reasons other than the guy needs to be kicked out for disrespectful behavior of some kind, then by all means she should refund the gentleman his money. He should not have to pay her for time she is not willing to give him due to her own needs. I have never heard of such a thing happening, but then again, I have never heard of a lot of the things that go on happening.
And, whether you spend money on a room or not, if a lady nc/ns on you, your remedy is to trash her good name on TER. I personally have never nc/ns anyone, nor would I ever do that to a client.
I did miss my plane one morning and was therefore not going to be able to make a scheduled date. I called the gentleman as soon as I knew I couldn't get a flight into San Diego in time for our scheduled date, which was 10 hours prior to the date. I apologized profusely and made it up to him grandly when we did see each other the following day. He did not loose income as a result of the rescheduing nor did he loose an experience with me.
He was inconvenienced because he had to rearrange his schedule to accomodate the new time, and I made sure that he knew that I deeply regretted inconveniencing him and compensated him the best that I could for the inconvenience. He knew that I valued him and his time by the time our date was over. That was a first date with him and he became a regular friend after that.
as a hobbyist. I have traveled this great country of ours and seen ladies in San Diego (the incredible Sedona), Seattle, Las Vegas, Indianapolis, as well as my home state of Florida.
Yes, for a longer date, you may legitimately request a deposit. The GFE ladies I see will not book an overnight with a hobbyist unless they have seen him previously and there has been some chemistry. Apparently, you did not follow this protocol.
I sent a a deposit once, repeat once, for a 2-hr. date. The time and agravation of going to Western Union to do this far exceeded the time I had with the lady.
I understand you disappointment in the NS/NC. It should not happen. I can say that this has happened to me as a hobbyist 4 times. What did I do? Nothing I could do. I was out my time and preparations as well.
Good luck to you. BTW, next time I'm in San Diego, I will NOT be contacting you. I no longer give deposits.
I have been providing for a year now and I can count on one hand how many NCNS or last minute cancellations that I've had. If I do have a cancellation, generally the gentleman gives me a minimum of 24 hrs notice.
As far as a deposit, every provider has the authority to set her own guidelines. If yours includes asking for a deposit for every meeting, including 1 hr appts, I'm afraid your going to see your business diminish quickly. However, I do understand asking for a deposit for extended and/or overnight appointments.
Since I have been providing, I have never ran into a gentleman that hasn't treated me like a goddess. In return, I treat him like the boyfriend that I've been waiting all my life for with great anticipation.
I'm certainly not in disagreement with your post in it's entirety. However, I don't think that it has portrayed you in a beneficial manner.
Best wishes!
As I have said, all of the gentlemen I have run into have also treated me like a goddess, and in return they get treated well.
Thank you for the feedback.
Re reading everything, it is clear there is much emotion, even anger, about this subject. Even with the emotion, there is a lot of thought that has gone into the posts.
No one can really defend late cancellations --either by client or provider--without a very good reason. My own feeling is that, if you have reserved time and need to cancel at the very last minute, some accommodation should be made, but that is just my feeling. I am not sure what a provider could do, but I know what feels right for me to do.
No one can defend a late cancellation without a call. (Unless the person canceling is in jail or the ICU.) NSNC is worse than just rude.
As to demanding a deposit, that is clearly up to the provider to demand and the client to accept or reject. I would guess that such a demand --except in the case of a booking for all night, all week end, etc-- will drive away business.
Finally, forgive me for saying this, it is a bit Lil Mary Sunshine of me, but I am really happy to be in the company of almost everyone who posts here. If you think about it, the group is generally bright, informed, concerned, and thoughtful. Who would have thought that a site like this populated by sex workers and their clients would be more honest and as thought provoking as sites devoted to physicians, lawyers, and professors --all of which I visit regularly.
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 3:42:58 AM
I am impressed beyond belief Doc. I am sure everyone will wake up in a calmer mood this morning and hopefully no one will be judged harshly for being emotional about this issue.
I agree NCNS is bad on both ends of the equation. If anyone wants to charge deposits to protect themselves from financial loss that seems reasonable to me. I am lucky that I have never experienced a NCNS.
In regard to your last point, Mr. Sunshine I tend to avoid professional sites. I also am careful who I talk to at conferences with a particular aversion to academics who seem to assume I am fascinated by their research. I call this Pretentious Importance Disorder (PID) If I have to listen during the entire break I develop Post Traumatic Pretentious Disorder. A new form of PTSD or I guess PTPD
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 5:16:16 AM
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 5:36:56 AM
I am a doc and need to keep up, I consult for lawyers and hospital systems helping them keep their systems as free of malpractice as possible, and I live the life of an academician as a Professor so I have to read all that stuff. I am here for the pleasure and satisfaction of it.
My dry sense of humor is only funny to me most of the time. I'm used to that but rarely learn from it I did not enjoy the best of relationships with my grad school advisor so I am a little jaded about academia.
much genuinely thoughtful response. That is the good thing about this community. I remain proud to be a part of it. However, in terms of mutual respect and understanding between some of the providers and some of the clients, this has been a blow. And we are at an impasse at present.
Your thoughtful reply that validates everyone's perspective and emotions, concluding with how valuable debates like this can be if put into proper perspective, is deeply moving. Thank you so much for contributing with such emotional and intellectual intelligence. I am honored that you value this community so much to shower us with your gifts.
I am a huge fan of yours!
xxoo
Probably because there are so many physicians, lawyers and professors here LOL.
Sorry could not resist. Sara
Simple answer;...Give me a deposit or get lost!
The man that stood you up,apparently has no integrity.....Their are many of us that hobby,that would never even think to pull that stunt!...Good luck and i hope you don't encounter this situation again,any time soon.
1 - why would a gentleman with any sense want to spend extended time with a lady that he does not already know very well, does not know if he will enjoy being with, and with whom he does not have an established basis of trust?
2 - why would a lady prefer to spend an extended time with a gent they likewise do not know, do not know if they will enjoy being with, and with whom they do not have a basis of trust?
3 - if the provider and client know each other and have an established basis of trust, why the deposit?
just questions....
This message was copied and pasted did not happen to you and you took it from a providers only board and reposted it here? Is that right? I am not sure I am following properly . Can somemeone clarify? Thank you Kendall
It is to the Op Or anyone who can answer the question.Have a great day Kendall
No, this message was not copied and pasted. It did happen to me. Another provider posted that she had a similar experience this weekend with a nc/ns and proposed we start charging deposits. I responded to her post in support of the idea with my own experience that I described in the original posting of this thread. I had already changed my own policy to begin requiring a deposit the night before on my website as I stated in my supportive response to the op of the provider on the provider only board.
There are one word answers to each question.
1. Sex
2. Money
3. Money
Having said that, I personally am in total agreement with all three points.
I have no trouble getting sex without paying for it, or getting just plain sex without paying the donation levels typical to GFE provides. Free sex with amateurs carries with it more drama than I prefer, and a higher risk of STDs in my experience. Just plain tail in DC can be had for $100-200 a pop if you don't care about the experience other than getting off. It's not about sex, it's about the GFE experience, which is both a total package, and an illusion - a romantic illusion at that. When people in the upscale, GFE business go out of their way to remind their consumers that what they really care about is the money - well, does that seem wise, from a business perspective?
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 11:03:39 AM
It eventually finds it's way back to one common thought-
At the end of the day does the client feel comfortable in knowing what he "left" at a providers door will stay there and not come back to bite him later- When an intense screening is performed (*and I have no idea where three hours entered the picture because it would never take that long to properly screen & verify anyone*) a provider has a ton of personal information on a gentleman that she needs to be entrusted with. Substituting this level of trust and confidence with cash just isn't common behaviors of most women who cater to a GFE experience. I do know that there are plenty who share this belief of cash substituting for trust, but they have historically posted on a few of the "other" sites... TER has historically been a collection of women who cater to a specific type of hobbyist who is truly looking for discretion and trust.
I, like Gregory feel that's trust goes a long way in this business and forms a huge block of the responsibility and duty the provider is getting paid for. The hobbyist has to feel a level of confidence and trust in me as a provider to share as much information as he does- I, in turn, protect him to keep my reputation- or in the case of a provider who is new to the business- to build her reputation. I find that even the thought of substituting a level of comfort and confidence for cash is just not acceptable to me- as I said in my previous posts- I don't care what the donation was, if I wasn't comfortable I wouldn't set the appointment.
Additionally, when the relationship is developed where the hobbyist has confidence in the provider and the provider is meeting the expectations of protecting the men who spend time with her- there are less avenues for problems.You can bring the Internet into it and you can add as many financial conditions to it that you want- the bottom line and at the end of the day the hobbyist has to be convinced he is going to be protected by the provider should anything happen and she need to react. -(*Like wives, LE...etc etc*) My beliefs are in line with the thoughts that providers are compensated for this level of protection, I know if I was just being paid for the sex- then any woman out there could do the same job for 50 or 100 bucks- That is the main reason I cater to the clientele that I do and I build relationships based on trust. When the DC madam went down my clients had no worries, when the mansion madam went down my clients had no worries, when Jeanette went down in the French Quarter my clients had no worries (*and in each case I had some of the exact same gentlemen who frequently contributed to each lady*) .... it is through times like that (*and other such trials*) that the actions of providers define their beliefs and their level of commitment to the trade.... and this is the piece of mind that men pay me for. That level of trust and confidence exceeds any "deposit" and to substitute a deposit for that piece of mind only belittles the arrangement- the provider is sending a strong message that while I trust you enough to meet with me; I am not confident you will keep your word and follow through with the agreement we have made to meet. The subject of belittling has been touched upon on several occasions in this thread- the bottom line is when a man spends time with me he is obviously respectful of both me and my qualities or he wouldn't entrust me with information that could damage his livelihood and his family. I have never felt, nor do I intend to ever, feel belittled as a part of my participation in the hobby... that just isn't a trait that is common with the clients I choose to associate with. Now, if a provider decides to spend her time and attention with such characters I don't think she sound bitch and scream about what happens to her as a result. Maybe a complaint or two amongst providers who are your support network but not to the general public. It is futile and a mute point. The men who are guilty of such behavior don't take the time to read the discussion boards or be a part of the community so why preach to the choir. If I was a provider new to the business and I made a mistake like poor screening or a poor judgment call because of lack of experience I would look at it and find ways to develop myself professional so it wouldn't happen again- I wouldn't have spent time trying to re-invent the system and degrade anyone who took the time to try to explain it to me. But of course, I have been reminded that I have been in the business for years and it is now 2008- so of course there are "much better ways" to do things- well ok then, don't ask me how I do things and why if you are just going to refute everything I tell you-
I hope everyone finds a path that is suitable to them- but I can assure you I am neither disrespectful nor am I indignant when it comes to understanding the plight of a provider new to the business. kisses ~Tori
And I appreciate your presence here on the board. I would very much have enjoyed the opportunity to know you in person.
Thank you -
Gregory
How sweet of you to say that--- and, flattery is truly one of the most proven paths to a ladies heart *LOL*-
I actual was very active in posting once upon a time- the search key will show of that evidence
(*while some have 'claimed' I have not published any of my thoughts on "how to build a client base" or "be successful in the hobby" a simple use of the search key will disprove that statement*) but now it is actually a very limited indulgence that I rarely have time to enjoy. I split my time between the Middle East and my residence in Paradise. -But especially to you Gregory: it is sometimes sad that ships just pass in the night only to feel the wake of one another and not to have the full appreciation of the magnitude of their magnificence...... such I feel is the case with you-
who have PM'd or emailed me to support the point of view I have expressed here, and to be sure that I did not associate the diatribe in the OP with them in any way. I will respond individually but my mailbox is now overflowing. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to express support and that you did not want to be identified with this point of view, and most importantly perhaps, that you were wise enough to desire not to become a part of this drama. My hat's off to you - I should have done the same. It was not worth the time or angst.
While I'm at it, I want to thank all of my favorite ladies out there (you know who you are) who have treated me with such kindness and respect, and whose company I have so much enjoyed.
You are worth more than your weight in gold.
Cheers - Gregory
-- Modified on 11/2/2008 9:48:36 AM
I'm sorry that happened to you. There is no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunatly, that's the nature of the biz. I travel for my job and have had many no call/no shows done to me. So it happens on both sides of the fence. Everyone has a different spin on things. I've booked appointments and tried calling about an hour before to only get voice mail or otherwise. And no return call nor email. Even though I'm not passing up opportunities to make money, I do pass opportunity to meet with someone else, because understandibly it's not easy to try to make a last minute appointment. I just learn who's who and move forward. Look at it as one of the costs of doing business, put that person on "the list" and inform others such your doing now and that pretty much all you can do. It's unfortunate for those like myself to have to pay the price because of others misconduct, but such is life. It's like when I go thru the long security lines at the airports, I curse Al Queida under my breath.....
TA, sometime it’s not what you say, but how you say it. And I will preface my comments with this: everything I say is my opinion, my opinion only, and not intended to represent the thoughts, feelings or opinions of anyone else.
Now that I have the disclaimer out of the way, A NCNS is just plain rude. NO excuse. You have no argument there.
And the end of your commentary is fair: “Please do not mistake my anger regarding the behavior of these other men for a lack of appreciation and respect for gentlemen who really are gentlemen. I
And that would have been a good way to broach this subject. And beyond that your intention to, from this point forward, require a deposit for any/all appts could have been presented very simply. How you choose to run your biz is entirely your choice—I have no feelings about that, one way or the other.
But the rest of this? In this post you have managed to come across as having an attitude of being overly entitled and at the same time, in all likelihood, alienated not only your existing client base to some degree, but your potential client base as well.
And even THAT is not what bothers me. Still your biz—not mine—run it however you choose. If you choose to do something that doesn’t work, as a smart biz owner I’m sure you will adjust accordingly.
I offer my opinion for this reason only: This is the FIRST time I have ever felt ---and I have been looking for the right word—and, a poster above landed on exactly what I was feeling---this is the first time I have ever felt “icky” about availing myself of, as you so [un] eloquently point out [THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY IN THE MARKET].
I really wish you had kept all of the irrelevant points to yourself, or the provider board. I do not appreciate having your superiority, to my desire for $ companionship pointed out to me in such an ungracious way.
Harrumph….
Signed: choosing to believe your attitude is the exception…….
Each provider in this industry is different - special and unique in her own way, providing her own brand of gifts and treasures to each of her gentlemen friends. This feature of having a diverse pool of providers from which to choose is a big part of what makes this hobby so fun and exciting for most of you. Some of you like skinny women, some like bbw, some like red heads, and some like brunettes, and still there are some of you who like us all or some combination of many of us.
Many of you expressed that my posting turned you off, and that you did not think that it was a very good marketing decision to express myself the way I did in my post. Yet, you saw, that even within the thread, there were hobbyists and providers that supported both the assertions I made, as well as the way in which I expressed them. I am no exception to the norm, in the sense that I contribute to the diverse population of providers available, and I will be appealing to some hobbyists and not to others.
In addition, there were many qualities of mine that were conveyed and expressed through that writing, some of which were not easily seen if your reaction to it was emotional. So, many hobbyists, who found me appealing as a result of that writing, found me so, because they can see things about me that the other hobbyists who don't find me appealing can't see. Because they have different perspectives and different levels of insight, the expression of all hobbyists and providers in a respectful manor is a useful learning tool and vehicle to convey information.
I have received invitations from gentlemen in this community asking me if I would give them the opportunity to make up for what has happened this weekend. I also received notice that my posting has been reprinted and published on other regional and relevant hobbyist/provider community boards, along with my picture and a link to my website. Not bad results for Marketing 101.
Thanks to all who participated in this thread. I appreciate the opportunity to get to know you better and learned a great deal both in experience and knowledge from this dialogue. I hope that if nothing else, you are able to take away the knowledge that there is value in every woman, even a woman who gets angry and expresses her anger.
how much flak she got for basically being upset about a multi hour NCNS. Then this long emotional debate about deposits. Torrid is not the only one who kept adding gas to this emotional fire. She could of course have waited until she calmed down or just posted this on the provider board but really haven't we all been emotionally upset on occasion and not handled it as well as we could.
On the other hand some moron flames and insults Dr. Joe and nobody pays much attention to that. Where were the posts about this which is much worse than anything Torrid wrote. Why do these moron flamers keep getting free passes while someone who uses her real handle and expressing honest opinions get all this flak? If these flamers cannot be moderated then we really need to quit using aliases. I'm really tired of it.
-- Modified on 11/3/2008 6:47:21 AM
-- Modified on 11/3/2008 8:58:15 AM
I'm afraid to look Its just like all the others. Some idiot using an alias so he can be a cowardly jerk. Infantile beyond belief. I feel sorry that you might actually spend time with some of these alias flamers. Hopefully they cannot hide their personality disorders long enough to get an appointment.
This alias system has to go and I think we need to stage a nonviolent revolution to get the job done People may say I am a white knight whatever in the hell that means but I propose letting providers use an alias to make a point because this is after all your business. Plus I suspect most of the infantile alias flames are from guys. Or if the flamers could just be moderated that would be OK with me. I guess that might be too much work. Another solution is just to get rid of the alias altogether.
-- Modified on 11/3/2008 7:34:58 PM
Well said!
The only way any of us will know if your marketing worked angry one is the result!
Give us all an update on how the deposit method worked.
Be honest....we are all waiting.