It will never be widely legal.
Regarding taxation, smart SW's already pay taxes on any earnings. Separate SW taxes would be just as ridiculous as current "sin"/vice taxes against liquor, gambling, adult biz, etc. Below is a link to an awesome SW blog where the lady discusses this topic far more clearly and eloquently than I.
Just as the LGBT rights movement benefited greatly from LGBT people coming out, so the sex worker rights movement could also benefit greatly from people coming out as sex workers.
In his book "The Sodomy Cases: Bowers v Hardwicke and Lawrence v Texas", David AJ Richards quotes Donald Webster Corey: "Until the world is able to accept us on an equal basis as human beings entitled to the full rights of life, we are unlikely to have any great numbers willing to become martyrs by carrying the burden of the cross. But until we are willing to speak out openly and frankly in defense of our activities, we are unlikely to find the attitudes of the world under going any significant change."
However, there are obviously substantial risks for many sex workers in coming out, and no one should ever do something they are uncomfortable with. Are there ways to participate in the sex worker rights movement without coming out publicly?
Many sex workers go to meetings of SWOP (the Sex Worker Outreach Project) or other sex worker rights groups, without outing themselves even to the other women at the meeting. In doing this, they are able to participate in the wonderfully supportive sense of community that is offered by these groups. The experience is welcoming and positive, and nothing is expected.
If a person chooses to become more involved, they do so entirely at their own pace. Many do nothing more than to go to the occasional meeting, but that is doing plenty.
Taking the first step is the important thing.
ince I am a client not an escort I don't know the answers but you are right in that until some brave individuals come out there is no chance of understanding let alone acceptance. Your post resonates in that as a patron of escorts I lead a secret life that in no way can be shared with civilians. I have friends I would love to turn onto this scene but no way. Not taking that chance. When it comes to this shit the misperceptions and propaganda are too great a hurdle to overcome. Luckily my cousin does this also so I have someone I can share with. He came out to me first and the floodgates opened. Great post even though I took it somewhere else. But that's part of what makes it great.
I'm not sure I'd do it either, although I have much less to lose than most. No job-related issue and most of the people I'm close to know what I do. Still, I'm not sure I'll join this party, though I wish them well and favor decriminalization. But given societal attitudes I think they're pissing into the wind, though the way change is sweeping the legalization of marijuana you never know.
There might be a chance for decriminalization if the libs can pull enough political capital out of the movement.
Although i'm highly skeptical, and the process will be a slow one.
The question on the ballot:
Proposition K: "Shall the City: stop enforcing laws against prostitution; stop funding or supporting the First Offender Prostitution Program or any similar anti-prostitution program; enforce existing criminal laws that prohibit crimes such as battery, extortion and rape, regardless of the victim's status as a sex worker; and fully disclose the investigation and prosecution of violent crimes against sex workers?"
The liberals will always oppose decriminalization because they believe every girl is trafficked.
but I certainly support decriminalization, I will admit to leaning strongly towards libertarianism however, I just wish the party didn't attract so many nut jobs.
One other point, lefties are much more likely to be "activists" for any cause than are righties or libertarians, it just seems to be the way they are wired. I might support a cause with my actions, or even my money, but marching on a public street, carrying a sign just isn't happening for me. lol
He's a raving Liberal on social issues and a complete knuckle-dragging Troglodyte on everything else. But he still gets lots of chicas because of his HUGE.....................................wallet
Organizations like SWOP IMO have many civies attend these meetings as it
focuses a great deal on underage trafficking.
The Drugs and Pimps associated
with this industry let alone the "Morals" of many of us cheating will keep most quiet.
"I'm Out"
Huh?
From what? Professionals that are of age and choose this profession where they are paid TAX FREE.
When it is their choice and are independent, and of age; I absolutely do not support it.
The criminalization should be for the Pimps and under age trafficking that goes on.
Everyone i know in this business pays their taxes.
We run businesses
Own property
Buy new cars
Pay daycares
Put braces on our kids
Put kids through college
Put ourselves through college.
We pay taxes alright.
and the ones that don't, are asking for trouble. it will catch up with them more often than not!
That was an uneducated statement on a subject YOU know very little about!
Fucking your way through the local market doesn't make you an expert on Hooker dos and donts and their financial ventures.
stop acting like you are some *IN THE KNOW* hobbyist You are just a trick with enough pocket change to ride the merry-go-round a few more times. simple as that.
With the exception of a very, very few, every sex worker I know pays taxes. I am disappointed that so many people have that stereotype about us. I have a very close relationship with my CPA AND my financial advisor. How would we own our homes or vehicles or etc...etc... without doing so?
We are all drug addicts
alcoholics
for me , and many others this move to this biz was a business plan.
it made sense financially and time wise.
I wanted to be the best parent I could be and that meant hands on.
quit my 2 jobs and did this 2 days a week raised my kids the rest. I became a stay at home mom.
for my family it was the best move.
now they are married or in college
no regrets
thats what I get for posting from my phone...lol
I know one who did just that, all the while being spit upon, mocked, beaten to a bloody mess.....Why? Because he loved ALL....gays, sex workers, etc.
Homosexuality is no more of a sin than, sex outside of marriage, lying, stealing, cheating, etc......but, it is still sin.
It is not what we think is RIGHT or WRONG, that is determined by the ONE who created us....PERIOD.
In his book "The Sodomy Cases: Bowers v Hardwicke and Lawrence v Texas", David AJ Richards quotes Donald Webster Corey: "Until the world is able to accept us on an equal basis as human beings entitled to the full rights of life, we are unlikely to have any great numbers willing to become martyrs by carrying the burden of the cross. But until we are willing to speak out openly and frankly in defense of our activities, we are unlikely to find the attitudes of the world under going any significant change."
However, there are obviously substantial risks for many sex workers in coming out, and no one should ever do something they are uncomfortable with. Are there ways to participate in the sex worker rights movement without coming out publicly?
Many sex workers go to meetings of SWOP (the Sex Worker Outreach Project) or other sex worker rights groups, without outing themselves even to the other women at the meeting. In doing this, they are able to participate in the wonderfully supportive sense of community that is offered by these groups. The experience is welcoming and positive, and nothing is expected.
If a person chooses to become more involved, they do so entirely at their own pace. Many do nothing more than to go to the occasional meeting, but that is doing plenty.
Taking the first step is the important thing.
I see Moe and Curly made it to the party.....where's Larry? (CPA
But I see the rest of the dungbeetles are making pennance
Was this the party you just came from?
Looks like fun
you're an idiot.
Its illegal to sell sex; simple as that. I'm not willing to go "on record" as a supporter
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 6:45:57 PM
Lol. You really think I'm going to risk ANYTHING to support women who refuse to get real jobs?
OSP, how incredibly insulting.
Many sex workers choose sex work out of curiosity, some out of desperation, some for plain ole' fun. Sex work is real work, whether done p/t, f/t or a handful of times a year. I don't know you, but I'm assuming that you're here because you visit with sex workers. So, in that regard, you already ARE supporting "women who refuse to get real jobs." Thank you for helping us pay off our student loans or business loans as we move forward, enjoying every moment of our lives as sex workers.
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 11:26:21 PM
He could have phrased it a little differently, but I agree to an extent. I don't agree that sex work is not "a real job" being many of us treat it as such. We might not work even 20 hours a week, but we run this business like we would any other being mindful of our appt. times, knowing what we have to do, when, what supplies to get, how long in traffic we might have to spend and accounting for that so we are not late. paying our bills on time. tending to other things in our lives such as family, friends, school, meeting deadlines, etc.
Here is the "BUT" though....this is a choice....end of story, plain and simple, for most of us. If we choose to work/play in this world we have to suffer the consequences that come with it. Many of us could get another job any damn time we wanted, but the fast money kept us here for a while. That's not a victim who needs someone to make a new law for her...that is a person wanting to do things their own way knowing it's illegal, then expecting the world and the laws to bend for them. That's a bit naive. I don't walk into the Catholic Church and demand they allow me to talk in tongues and dance on the chairs...I find a non-denominational church that operates that way. I don't grow a garden of pot in my back yard and start selling the shit in La. and wonder why I am in jail for the next 20 years.
I am sick to death of hearing people say we can't call the cops when we are assaulted or raped! YES WE CAN! The problem is too many are chicken shit and don't want that misdemeanor charge so they let a rapist go free to save themselves the humiliation. No wonder men think they can do what they want to us...because no one has the balls to make a damn phone call! It's called immunity when you put away someone for a bigger crime than your own...duh.
i make *real* money so its a real job imo.
pay real taxes and real bills.
and yes you are already supporting us.
thank you for your support.
oh and by the way...
I dont know one single guy, if he was offered the oppertunity to fuck for a living,get paid really well and make his own schedule...I dont know any guys that would turn that *best job ever* down. Theyd be bragging about it too.
Plainly put, it makes more financial sense to embrace gay folks than to ostracize them.
- Corporate sponsors made a lot of money off successful programming like Will & Grace, Ellen Degeneres Show, etc.
- When a lot of gay people move into a city, the city gentrifies and property values go up- think Greenich Village NY, parts of Boston, and San Francisco.
- Industries based around weddings and funerals have greatly benefitted in states where gay marriage is legal.
- Whether you are a lawyer, travel cruise line, therapist, real estate agent etc, marketing yourself as being sensitive to the needs of the gay population has finacial benefits because gay people have more per capita disposable income than their straight counterparts.
Canada decriminalized prostitution for mostly altruistic reasons (as seen in the details of the case that set the new precedent several years back.) But America is a plutocracy and projected profit margins guide too much of our legislative policy.
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 5:59:53 PM
Great post! I hope that more people will respond and share their thoughts. Here are some of mine...
Before I became involved in the movement, I was extremely closeted about being a sex worker. I was horrified to get involved with organizations like SWOP or Desiree Alliance because I was afraid of my "true" identity coming out. The more I learned about other activists (think Robyn Few and Carol Leigh, who actually coined the term "sex worker" in the late 70s) and watched interviews and demonstrations online, the more comfortable I became with myself. I realized that there are other passionate people in this industry who don't believe that anybody should be stigmatized or judged for anything, whether being a sex worker out of desperation or choice.
When I began attending SWOP meetings and met other sex workers, I was elated and relieved. I felt totally safe with the other members (both men and women, transgenders, etc...) and felt supported by them. I gained confidence from the organization and came out to my friends, family and some church members (not all! LOL) as a sex worker. I lost less than a handful of "friends" by coming out and have been embraced and accepted by all of the others.
It's important to know that members of SWOP or Desiree Alliance don't necessarily have to be sex workers themselves. We are groups of sex workers, former sex workers and allies of sex workers. I support same sex marriage but that doesn't mean I want to marry someone of my own sex. I support animal causes but I'm not an animal (only bcd teehee.) So for someone to get involved with the movement for sex workers rights, one does not necessarily have to be a sex worker.
I have met attorneys who support our organizations and attend our Desiree Alliance conferences (we just wrapped one up a few weeks ago,) I've met filmmakers, writers, academics and harm reduction specialists who support the cause. Yes, it can be more powerful to have activists who have experience in the world of sex work. Yes, it would be great to have a celeb or someone else well-known/famous to openly support us or even admit to doing some form of sex work in the past.
As madiba51 wrote, taking the first step is the important thing. One can attend meetings with a "stage name," wear dark sunglasses and a wig. That person will be screened so that no fakes will get through. Just attending meetings and showing support means so much to us activists. It's all meaningful in the long run
conference last month. This was after meeting her at her weeklong event in San Francisco in May, in which I saw the movement in an organized way for the first time.
I am a human rights leader in a position of power in the more general human rights movement, and am developing a growing interest in this as an important rights area.
Desiree was a good, productive meeting.
I see sex workers as increasingly vulnerable, as we see more and more close cooperation between law enforcement agencies and those NGOs which conflate consenting adult sex workers with coerced children, with the resultant erosion of rights for sex workers and those close to them. This already-marginalized group must become increasingly involved in the defense of their rights if the current trend is to be reversed.
I think the battle for sex worker rights can be won. It starts with individuals taking the first step, as you did.
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 6:30:26 PM
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 6:32:34 PM
Personally I would feel like a creep siting in at a sex worker meeting.
I wouldn't be able to stop thinking about who I'd have sex with, and how.
In his book "The Sodomy Cases: Bowers v Hardwicke and Lawrence v Texas", David AJ Richards quotes Donald Webster Corey: "Until the world is able to accept us on an equal basis as human beings entitled to the full rights of life, we are unlikely to have any great numbers willing to become martyrs by carrying the burden of the cross. But until we are willing to speak out openly and frankly in defense of our activities, we are unlikely to find the attitudes of the world under going any significant change."
However, there are obviously substantial risks for many sex workers in coming out, and no one should ever do something they are uncomfortable with. Are there ways to participate in the sex worker rights movement without coming out publicly?
Many sex workers go to meetings of SWOP (the Sex Worker Outreach Project) or other sex worker rights groups, without outing themselves even to the other women at the meeting. In doing this, they are able to participate in the wonderfully supportive sense of community that is offered by these groups. The experience is welcoming and positive, and nothing is expected.
If a person chooses to become more involved, they do so entirely at their own pace. Many do nothing more than to go to the occasional meeting, but that is doing plenty.
Taking the first step is the important thing.
I met a provider at a SWOPE conference and did a session there. It's no biggie.
As for coming out to facilitate the movement to decriminalize sex work, I think that will be effective but rare because of the one-two punch of both admitting to illegal activity, and the moral stigma.
Yet, many western style countries, in fact most, allow legal sex work to one extent or another, including our neighbor, Canada. I'd be interested to know what steps worked in those countries to bring about the reform.
Maybe the day of emancipation will come via the SCOTUS - afterall, they knocked down DOMA, legalized abortion, and overturned segregation, among other things.
Will it happen in our lifetimes?
Your guess is as good as mine.
many of those countries like France, its common knowledge their president cheats
they have a porn star as a state rep
England all their kings dukes and dutchesses for the most part had affairs mistresses lovers and so on. it was just accepted.
our president cheats on his wife with an aid and we start impeachment talks and have billion dollar committees to look into this get the truth of which...is none of our business!
If it ever becomes decriminalized the governmennt will want to make rules regulations and all the control freaks will wanna tell us how to fuck! well you know what I mean!
Geesh!!!!
its not going to come in my time here and maybe not anyone elses
we are a country of hypocrites and tightasses!
I have so much respect for 'out' sex workers, as I really do believe that challenging preconceptions of sex workers as drug addled, pimp-coerced street walkers is the best way to change people's minds on the legality of sex work. We're single mothers trying to support children without being gone 60+ hours a week; we're students trying to avoid overbearing student debt; we're artists supporting ourselves while leaving time for self-expression; we're psychiatrists, social workers, lovers and friends for clients who need it. Yes, there are those with problems in the industry, but pushing them to the margins of society and often leaving them with a permanent record that makes them unemployable causes SO much harm, and often prevents these workers from exiting the life when they want to.
Someone like Rachel Wotton in Australia, who is an out worker who sees primarily disabled clients, really makes people rethink their ideas about prostitution. Sex is a basic human function, a basic need (yep) for mental and physical health, and it allows human intimacy for many who would never be able to experience it without a paid worker (many disable, older, or just socially awkward people have no other access to intimate human touch, and even religious people often realize that it's wrong to criminalize them for seeking it.)
Just what I (firmly, passionately, carry-around-a-soapbox-and-bore-everyone) believe 
Anarchists and libertarians on both the left and the right typically "get" it. (Think Ron Paul in that lengthy Stone Phillips interview.) Humanizing yourself to the middle of the road, swing voter types might actually be the hardest! These people are very reactionary and impulsive in their thinking... LOGIC is often lost on them. Lol.
I absolutely agree with what you have written about sex/touch/intimacy being a basic human need. When I session with people with profound physical or emotional "issues," I feel as if I am doing a public service. It's challenging but rewarding on many levels. The people I see really appreciate my accepting attitude.
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 7:53:51 PM
Sounds like something she would say.
And what...no link to some website?
If you're speaking in front of crowds....that is bizarre as you have a difficult time holding your own here when you have plenty of time to formulate a thought.
But glad that you're out there trying to rally the troops...seriously.
I absolutely agree with what you have written about sex/touch/intimacy being a basic human need. When I session with people with profound physical or emotional "issues," I really feel as if I am doing a public service. It's challenging but rewarding on many levels and the people I see really appreciate my accepting attitude.
Same arguments...same logic...same drivel
She also loves to link sites instead of formulating an argument....must have been great on the debate team LOL
-- Modified on 8/11/2013 7:05:56 PM
CeCe had apparently met Helen Thomas.. Too bad we can't confirm that anymore..
Yep...consistent if nothing else LOL
https://m.facebook.com/spreadmag
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/$prea
I'm still looking for that pic with you and Helen as well LOL
Any chance you are lying 
Beyond that, I am not outing myself or putting my private life at risk. I mean gimme a break. This is A CHOICE, not like animal rights activists who are supporting people who can't defend themselves. You choose to be here, regardless of the excuses one might have. Everything in life is a choice. If you're not living in a box, being raped or beaten, then you can go to work elsewhere.
Certainly, but I also think Pot should be legal and abortion should be Illegal. No one cares what I think lol.
There are plenty of sex workers who are out and proud and working to make their profession more socially acceptable and safe. Besides the higher-profile organizations like SWOP, there are lots of informal and lower-profile support networks. Girls in the biz often have friends, and that's great. They are not the helpless dummies that many men assume.
What ticks me off is guys saying how sex workers need to take all the risks -- accept the stigmatization, the legal problems, while the johns get to skulk around in the background cracking 'whore' jokes with co-workers and lying about their need to pay for sex.
Why don't more clients come 'out'
Because, contrary to the bs some like to spew, the men don't take half the risks that we do. Just being a MAN, puts most having the upper hand of physical strength. I am sure there are some women out there who could beat a guy's ass, but he would be a weak guy and not the average guy. She would be super woman. The odds are stacked against us, but hey...not whining. I know this job has risks, but I signed up for that. I am not going to go crying about my rights when what I do is illegal. Seems a bit contradictory.
We have the same rights as anyone else, when it comes to crimes. If an escort is raped, the guy is still going to do time provided she can prove it. That same burden of proof, will be extended to any woman claiming she was raped. Sure, they will tear up an escort on the stand, but have you seen rape trials? They do it to EVERY woman accusing a guy of raping her. She is always the slut, she asked for it, she was wearing this or that, she said no, but meant yes...etc.
If you want rights as a sex worker, go to a place where it's legal. Don't whine about the laws being the way they are, when you came here knowing that shit already! If you are here against your will, that's another story and has nothing to do with sex worker's rights. That's trafficking, and is a Federal Crime.
-- Modified on 8/12/2013 1:21:15 PM
What you're saying doesn't really make sense. If people see what they percieve to be a social injustice in an allegedly free and democratic society, you're suggesting that they sit on their hands and shut their mouth, and just move to Canada or the Netherlands?!?! Surely you jest!
This country was founded on the principals of free speach, free press, and the right to publically gather and express dissent. Prostitution is decriminalized or legal in almost ALL of the industrialized world, with the exception of the US. And only in the US is such a policy change considered "fringe" and a far-fetched notion.
No, when you make an Apples and Oranges comparison as you have, it does not make sense lol. Women being given "equal rights" is a far cry from fkin random strangers by choice then bitching about it being illegal. Personally, I like the shit just the way it is, and it's not a "career" for me. I guess if I planned on being here til 60, my views might be a bit different, but I am not exactly proud of what I do. It's a job, nothing more.
Women were not given a CHOICE back then to vote or do much else...they were simply told it was not allowed. Being a hooker is a CHOICE. So in short, if I am going to spend my time taking a stand for something, it won't be to fk married men for money. I would rather fight for hungry children and abuse victims. I respect the women who do this, but I don't think it should be legal and regulated. Now, I do agree that the criminal aspect should be abolished, but I am not in this so deep that I would start going to weekly meetings about it.
-- Modified on 8/12/2013 4:34:34 PM
I like you as a person, London, but you and I clearly have very different views of the world and of our places in it! I'm a passionate, oppinionated person when it comes to all sorts of issues. I sell my body, but will never let my mind become colonized. I'm many things, one of which is me being an unrepentant whore. I feel no guilt or shame about being involved in this business. I loath myself for other reasons at times, but never for THIS. I can think of thousands of corporate jobs that are more dishonest and exploitive than someone having sex for money!
George Orwell famously said-
“Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don’t imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.”
People conveniently forget that he was talking about POLITICAL/INTELLECTUAL prostitution...
Instead of trying to enact change in the US?? When I was younger, I did activism around low income rights, prison abolition and reform, animal rights, US foreign policy, drug policy, the treatment of people labeled mentally ill, women's reproductive rights etc etc etc.
I view the sex worker's rights movement as just one more social justice movement. If you see things differently then that's your prerogative.
Ok, maybe that statement was taken out of context, and I did not say "another country." I said where it's legal, which is just West. I don't mock anyone for wanting to take a stand for something, and I highly respect each and every one of you who do, BUT that does not mean I can't point out some obvious inconsistencies. You/I/We CHOOSE to be here. If we don't like the way things are, no one is forcing us to RISK OUR LIVES in something illegal. It's not like working for a company where your "LEGAL" rights are being violated...this is not legal.
Would I like to see the day when a woman can actually sue a john for ripping her off? Damn right! I would also like to see women here have the balls to call the cops when they are raped and assaulted, because THAT is what will help prevent it from happening to someone else. Even if it were legal, many women would still NOT report such things because they don't want to be known as a prostitute. So, we can blame the laws all we want, but much of this responsibility lies on us too.
My only point is, I can think of a million other worthy causes than advocating for women who get paid to fk someone else's husband. It's a cop out to be quite frank. Very few women here actually would do this if they could make the same money doing something else, and that's just a fact. No one feels sorry for us, because we put ourselves here. A child did not put himself in poverty or hunger...his parents did because of any number of reasons. A child that is forced into the sex trade did not do that to themselves...that's the only thing I think many people miss. I chose to be here, and I will take the hits that come with it. If the day comes when I am ever raped, arrested, or assaulted, that is the last you will see of London Rayne, because at that point, it's simply not worth it.
-- Modified on 8/12/2013 6:32:13 PM
Would I like to see the day when a woman can actually sue a john for ripping her off? Damn right!
You should talk to colleagues in Germany. Or even Britain, Australia, or Canada. It's very different there. Not for everyone, of course. But for anyone working legally.
many people and news and I'm ok with my face possibly showing up on YouTube or the news (it has before during a protest), because I'm cool w/ the world knowing I support the efforts I was rallying about. However, I'd never feel comfortable outing myself for sex worker rights...not because I don't think they're important, but it's just not something I want the world to know about me, and I don't view it the same as women not having the right to vote or blacks being lynched in the south.
I guess I'm just not passionate about it as well.
-- Modified on 8/12/2013 3:35:12 PM
I've been saying the same thing for years, EVERYONE I know knows I am a whore monger. I make zero effort to hide what I do, except where my actions can effect others, like telling the wives of my married friends and having suspicion fall on them because I couldn't keep my big fucking mouth shut. There are limits to "telling the truth", but I agree that the guys, especially the ones who aren't cheating on someone, need to step up and be counted if they ever want something done to change the status quo.
That is possible your first post ever, gambler, that I would like to applaud.
But to nitpick: The use of 'whoremonger' to refer to someone who purchases the services of prostitutes has always annoyed me. 'Monger' refers to someone who sells stuff. A whoremonger therefore most accurately refers to a pimp or brothel owner.
You knew I had to be an ass somehow, didn't you? :