You have some really good points. However, I don't like the fact that she didn't want to talk about it. I think when you talk about stuff and get it out....It's over and you don't have to come back to it. That's my opinion. I wanted to hear it....It kinda turned me on (for some crazy reason). I knew it was the past and was not going to happen while with me so I didn't care. DOes that make sense...?
I started seeing a provider who quickly became my ATF about 5 years ago. She and and I have continued our relationship she having 'retired' about 4 years ago.
we have shared many things of ourselves. I have a few questions
what is the ratio, if there is one between # of reviews and number of 'visits' a provider may have had? she retired after about a year as a provider and had 13 reviews [on TER] [she took great pains to get rid of her website/message board invites, e mail acct...when she retired]
is there a reasonable chance of taking the relationship to a different level
also what is the prime motivator to become a provider??
money sex adventure
this lady [and she is all lady] is from a suburb of a large mid western city, college degree, worked in an ad agency for a number of years and was briefly married [18 months] right out of college
went into providing at about 33 left when she was 34
Your first question is there a number ratio to clients to reviews. Either you like her and respect her or you don't. If she had seen 5,000 or 5 does it really matter? You knew what she did when you meet her..
Your next question is.. Do you have a chance to have a real realationship wth her. Not if you have some crazy made up number that crosses the line in your head as I pointed out in the above. Are providers able to have real relationships? YES! WE ARE REAL NORMAL FEELING, LOVING PEOPLE.
3rd. question.. what is the motivator for becoming a provider? You need to ask her that.. every lady does it for a different reason and her reasons are what is important........
Yeah, I came to the same conclusion. The OP who is claiming to want a "real relationship" with this woman seems hung up on how many guys she fucked when she was a provider.
Some guys are not emotionally secure enough to have a "real relationship" with a provider or even an ex provider. The OP certainly seems to fit that mold.
Guys, if you are still hung up on how many guys a girl has fucked, whether she did it for the money or some "noble purpose", whatever the fuck that is, or have any other hangups on what a woman has done in her life to get by. Do yourself, and her a favor. Do not get involved with her.
The first time you hit a bumpy patch you are going to remind her that she's a whore and in your mind is always going to be a whore. Just save everyone a lot of grief and look for your "real relationships" in church, or at the library, or anywhere but here.
some of these guys see providers, fall in love, than wish the girl was a nun. Hypocrites. Put me in the camp that loves sexually liberated and adventurous girls. Enjoy that they enjoy sex. Enjoy that they will fuck your brains out and more than likely bring girls with them to fuck your brains out. Of course GG this guy will probably not have the nuts to come back and discuss his original post with us if past indicators say anything.
I think the only important number is ONE - and that's ME. As long as she fucking my brains out, I could care less how many other guys she is fucking.
When it cums to a relationship with a provider, it can be done, but it's a HELL of a lot easier to just be friends (i.e. she still gets paid for what she does); but perhaps you hang out once in a while, go places together sometimes, stuff like that.
I disagree. If you are secure you can handle it.....however, MOST guys are NOT!! Thats the bottom line. Lets face it most guys hoby because they are ensecure with something....looks, weight, dick size...whatever....I'm just saying. Don't start hating me because I speak the truth
If I couldn't handle would not have continued To see her And yes I have the guts to respond Just looking for view from the provider Angle As far as #'s more of a general curiosity Not lady specific I could not care less if it was 5 or 5000
We just seem to have great chemistry
And after 25 years of evaluating people In my profession and becoming pretty Good at it still wanted some validation From a group of folks
How does one know that the "ONE" has not fucked around like a herd of rabbits, be the "ONE" woman or man? How would one know the woman in church has not fucked half the city, all the deacons, the preacher's assistants and the preacher? Anyone that is hung up over how many trips to the rodeo the one he or she falls in love with is better off staying unattached.
Too many men are of that wholly limited opinion - as if their whoremongering is of no consequence. That double-damned double-standard. I thought we'd finally gotten rid of it, but apparently not.
I'm sooo glad I keep company with men and women who have no problem accepting that I was a provider!
The new year is coming. May the rest of you - and the OP's former ATF - find the same friendships as I have.
I mean you have some good rapport with her. Curious how this never came up through the years. Let us know what she says. My inking is she sees you as a friend. Does she still provide for you UTR. I'm guessing she has a bf now. But seriously just ask her the questions you asked us.
You have some good questions, however, I agree that you should ask her. Be transparent and she should be transparent. I have dated a provider and it was a VERY functional relationship. This might sound weird, however, when she was done (retired) providing I enjoyed hearing her stories. They were very interesting and it kinda turned me on. I hope that doesn't sounds strange. SHe was just a normal person, college educated, parents were still married, smart, hot, she just needed money for college and like sex. It's pretty simple. I think a lot of peolpe assume disfunction but a lot of these women are regular women that need money and/or like sex. It can work out for you if you communicate and don't judge....who knows you might like to hear the stories....I did !! We fucked like wild rabbits after. It was great. By the way....she was the best sexual partner I ever had.
I just met with a beautiful Lady who is an UTR provider and has not been around for about 7 or 8 years. I wont lie, I have always been nuts about her, and if she would have me on a permanent basis, I would run away with her in a heart beat. There always was something between us, we both knew it, we just would not let that fire grow. I guess we were both just afraid. After we met today and talked and as we looked each other in the eye, she just leaned over, gently kissed me on the lips and put her held on my shoulder as I held her. It was so natural, I don't care what and how many, if this relationship were to get going, her past would not bug me as I have done the same. Its the future that counts. Holding her makes me happy, and I have no delusions about her or my pasts. I am going to see her again soon, and I hope that I am wrong and I don't set myself up get hurt. The Hobby has a fine line and going over it is ones own decision and can be very unpleasant if you don't do it with some understanding of what the outcome might be. Just my two cents.
Posted By: FIDCUOF
You have some good questions, however, I agree that you should ask her. Be transparent and she should be transparent. I have dated a provider and it was a VERY functional relationship. This might sound weird, however, when she was done (retired) providing I enjoyed hearing her stories. They were very interesting and it kinda turned me on. I hope that doesn't sounds strange. SHe was just a normal person, college educated, parents were still married, smart, hot, she just needed money for college and like sex. It's pretty simple. I think a lot of peolpe assume disfunction but a lot of these women are regular women that need money and/or like sex. It can work out for you if you communicate and don't judge....who knows you might like to hear the stories....I did !! We fucked like wild rabbits after. It was great. By the way....she was the best sexual partner I ever had.
She was in the biz a little over a year and did it because of the money. I chose to pursue a relationship with her knowing what she did. Did I care? No. It was her job and she was good at it. Did I ever check her reviews? No. Why does that matter to me? She didn't feel uncomfortable talking about it if I wanted to know, but I never cared and never asked. It's your security, or lack there of, that's driving you to check her reviews, ask questions here, etc. Are you checking up on her? Let it go and if you can't, let her go. If this eats you up now, it forever will.
Honestly, you meet a civvie girl and date her...is she REALLY going to tell you how many men she has fucked? Does it matter? How about you and the nummber of providers you have seen? Is that relevant to her? You're an adult and everyone has a past, everyone. At least you knew what you were getting into. If this is what you have chosen, then all that doesn't and shouldn't matter if you're truly wanting to date her for who she is, how she is to you, and how you make each other feel without fear of holding things against the other person.
My gf is retired, based on her own volition. I never cared or made mention about her getting out of her profession. Would I be happy if my SO all of a sudden told me to quit my job because she's uncomfortable? NO. It's about being honest from the beginning so that the person has a choice to be with you and accept you.
You have some really good points. However, I don't like the fact that she didn't want to talk about it. I think when you talk about stuff and get it out....It's over and you don't have to come back to it. That's my opinion. I wanted to hear it....It kinda turned me on (for some crazy reason). I knew it was the past and was not going to happen while with me so I didn't care. DOes that make sense...?
I may have been unclear...it's not that my gf doesn't want to talk about it. She always has left the communication channel open to me if I ever want to know things about her past work. For me, honestly, it's not important and I'm not one that has ever lingered on one's past.
Makes complete sense, FIDCUOF . I can understand how it is a turn on to some. For me, I'm not curious and if I ever get the urge to know, I know she will willingly discuss it with me.
Re is a civvie "REALLY going to tell you how many men she has fucked?" Hell, yes, at least in my case. I can think of several girls I've played this game with. We both tried to remember everyone we'd ever had sex with to see which of us had slept with the most people. I can actually remember one sweet young thing who had me beat. It didn't bother me at all and she thought it was funny as hell. PS: I never counted providers in my tally.
I think its been all said and said well. If her past is a show stopper then so be it. But then how many ladies have you been with Mr Hobby? And who cares what her motivation was. Being in it for a year seems like she was tiding herself over between jobs. But even if she was in it for a decade what would that matter.
Just ask her out on a civy date. That is all you gotta do. Yes means I am interested and no means no. Just remember one thing, she is a woman first, and she has feelings.
As a provider, honestly no matter how smart and normal a girl may seem to be, any girl who gets into this business has to have some sort of psychological disorder. I don't mean anything crazy, it may be anything from narcissism, to depression, to addictions, or just a case of low self-esteem. I now a lot of people will argue with me but when you really get down to it and if she is honest enough to admit it or you get close enough to her to see it (such as living with her for a period of time), you will be able to recognize it. I believe many men get caught up in the fantasy and think it is sexy and hot to be with a provider, but long turn it seldom works out. That's my opinion.
to say ALL providers have a psychological problem or they wouldn't be doing it. Some do, some don't, just like anybody else. Lots of providers post here (under their handle but also under an alias, which in this case may be more credible) that they love the sex and the adventure of this biz. You can call me naive for believing them, but I've met enough that seem to enjoy it (because they squirt their brains out, among other things). I have no idea what the percentage is, but I'd no more state they all love sex than I'd say they all have psychological issues. As for such relationships seldom working out, that's true of civvie relationships, too. Half of all marriages end in divorce. I've been married twice and will soon be twice divorced (I hope). There is no way I could have done worse by marrying a provider
That's because a lot of people marry for the wrong reasons or do not know how to compromise. You have a better chance of a normal, healthy relationship with a non provider. More logic less rationalizing is how to look at this situation come on....
You evidently didn't read my entire post because I never said they don't like sex, in fact that may be part of their issues under "addictions". A lot of us subconsciously have a need to feel loved because they may not have had that while growing up. Some are sex addicts, and that kind of sex is not healthy as with any other addiction. It's about using common sense and not rationalizing these things because if your daughter became an escort you would question what you did wrong as a parent, you know you would.
I did read your post carefully and if you'd read mine just as carefully, you'd know I did not suggest you believed no provider likes sex. I simply stated there are many reasons women get into this business, and that is simply one of them. The reasons you give as to why providers may like sex are also true in some cases. But not all cases. My debate with you is simply to refute your position that ALL providers have a psychological problem. There is no correct answer that covers everybody. That's all I'm saying. And if my daughter became an escort I'd have mixed feelings, of course. I am not free of some level of double-standard. But it doesn't change whether or not my argument is corrrect.
That is such an over-generalization... and we wonder why the general public has such a problem w/what we do?? They put us into this little box, a "one size MUST fit all", when in reality, I've met more civvies w/psychological problems than providers. I don't drink or do any type of drug what-so-ever(unless you count coffee), am not depressed, & anyone that's ever met me, classifies me as an extremely happy-go-lucky type person. Addicted to sex... nope. Grew up in an emotionally well balanced, 2-parent, upper-middle class household.... am college educated(3 times), & do what I do by CHOICE, because I like meeting new people, & hell, having fun at the same time, & making more than I ever would working a 9-5.
You say most people get married for all the wrong reasons, or get divorced for failure to communicate... I would love to know what your personal insight into that situation is?
To the OP, can a relationship w/a provider work... yes. We are regular women just like any other women, contradictory to "others" posts. The only difference, unlike civvies who go to the bar or nightclub every weekend, & hook up w/a different guy, w/nothing to show for it.. we've just utilized this same concept, & get paid to have fun.
Posted By: crystalelena
You evidently didn't read my entire post because I never said they don't like sex, in fact that may be part of their issues under "addictions". A lot of us subconsciously have a need to feel loved because they may not have had that while growing up. Some are sex addicts, and that kind of sex is not healthy as with any other addiction. It's about using common sense and not rationalizing these things because if your daughter became an escort you would question what you did wrong as a parent, you know you would.
Lol LOL LOL boy I love the responses. Keep bringing them. I love this business more than anything but I find that it itself is an addiction. not very healthy. I don't are if people dispute what I say. That is their prerogative but when we are born, we usually have morals instilled in us, and they don't include escorting so somewhere along the line we make the decision to do something we know is not accepted by GOD and society but we do it anyway. It takes someone with some sort of defiance to do something like this. But I do it anyway. Just being brutally honest. Don't mean to offend anyone just thought I'd raise some eyebrows...Hehe
I did not think I would raise eyebrows but maybe thats because I am old fashioned. I am what you call "a lady in the street but a freak in the bed" haha. I am not proud of what I do but I sure love it and I love men!
Lol LOL LOL boy I love the responses. Keep bringing them. I love this business more than anything but I find that it itself is an addiction. not very healthy. I don't are if people dispute what I say. That is their prerogative but when we are born, we usually have morals instilled in us, and they don't include escorting so somewhere along the line we make the decision to do something we know is not accepted by GOD and society but we do it anyway. It takes someone with some sort of defiance to do something like this. But I do it anyway. Just being brutally honest. Don't mean to offend anyone just thought I'd raise some eyebrows...Hehe
It's only an addiction if YOU allow it to be, the same with any other addiction. People are not born with morals, but morals are instead instilled in us by our upbringing, which can change drastically over the course of one's life. I was brought up to believe that no sex before marriage... yea, that went out the window at 16, lol. And how is this any worse than the girls that flock to the nightclubs and bars on the weekends & sleep with a different stranger every night, or constantly parade different boyfriends in front of their children. Because we CHOOSE to charge for what the normal civvie does for FREE on a continual basis, that makes this wrong? And re-read the bible... the only prostitutes that were looked down upon were the temple goddess, as they were in themselves, "asking" those who frequented the temples to look at them as "Gods". Ever hear of Mary Magdalen?
And again on your views of marriage.... do you honestly think that you are the same person you are at 18, that you are at 30? Most people are not, & thus the reason for the high divorce rate. And if one person if willing to compromise, and the other is not.. how long should the other person keep bending backwards to please the other that really doesn't care anymore?
You evidently didn't read my entire post because I never said they don't like sex, in fact that may be part of their issues under "addictions". A lot of us subconsciously have a need to feel loved because they may not have had that while growing up. Some are sex addicts, and that kind of sex is not healthy as with any other addiction. It's about using common sense and not rationalizing these things because if your daughter became an escort you would question what you did wrong as a parent, you know you would.
I would agree if you said many women in this business have "issues" of one sort or another. But then I would argue that most men here do, as do most people in general. We are multi-dimentional complex entities and I can honestly say almost everyone I know has something "a little off" about them. To make it seem that ladies in this business are inherently more flawed than other humans seems a very broad generalization, and I have not seen it to be true.
Why do ladies work in this business has many, many answers. I will always argue it provides a way to make a living with very flexible hours while allowing a single mom or student to do the other things high on her priority list--if there were an honest accounting I'd wager 50% of ladies in this business fall (or fell) in one (or both) of these categories. For some it's a whole lot more enjoyable and fewer hours than the other options they believe are available to them. Does that make them psychotic? I do not think so; I have seen too many ladies walk away from the business and lead successful "normal" lives afterwards to believe your all encompassing statement.
Should people walk in with eyes open if it looks like a relationship might develop? Of course. Should one assume all ladies in this business are broken beyond hope? No, I do NOT believe that. I hope you do not believe that about yourself.
I think the question about the OP's mindset is a slightly different issue, and I agree it seems he is fixating about how many people she saw when she was working, and that is not a good sign.
I would say that 99 percent of all women who enter the profession do it for money. In countries with a lot of poverty, it's about 100 percent. Unlike men, most women want a relationship with one man, or woman, though they will dump him if he doesn't measure up. There are women who do it for pleasure more than money, and they will post on TER! But I don't think that reflects the vast majority. There are many women with problems, perhaps sexual addiction or a need for reassurance, which will direct them into prostitution. But the money is always the key--they could have sex for free at bars if they like. I, of all people, cannot pass judgement on anyone, and last I checked, no one asked me to. But I suspect that if you go into escorting with some psychological problems, they aren't going to get any better. For a few, yes, it is empowering and therapeutic, and I'm sure they will let me know. But I think you could easily get burnt out escorting, and not all women can handle it for years on end.
if by "disrorder", you mean that they meet the threshold criteria for a DSM4 disorder diagnosis.
However, if by "disorder", you mean that they sometimes encounter difficulties in life, then I would agree, since this is true of just about all people.
Same with clients.
Posted By: crystalelena
As a provider, honestly no matter how smart and normal a girl may seem to be, any girl who gets into this business has to have some sort of psychological disorder. I don't mean anything crazy, it may be anything from narcissism, to depression, to addictions, or just a case of low self-esteem. I now a lot of people will argue with me but when you really get down to it and if she is honest enough to admit it or you get close enough to her to see it (such as living with her for a period of time), you will be able to recognize it. I believe many men get caught up in the fantasy and think it is sexy and hot to be with a provider, but long turn it seldom works out. That's my opinion.
You've made some pretty strong and "valid" points about the HUMAN behaviour. A persons behaviour is usually developed due in part to their circumstances and life experiences. These experiences then goes towards building character, moral beliefs and and and.
We (humans) all have those traits that you listed and it is not nor should it be seen as an inherent behavioral trait or a group of traits that Providers MUST have in order to even have the desire to partake in this business. Attempting to fuse certain behavior with a specific Profession is not something I personally agree with.
You can base your theory around ANY profession {ex: Politician (narcissism), Counselor (battling their own depression /addiction) , Model (low-self esteem)...} Not all Priest are.... (fin)
Cheers, K -----
Posted By: crystalelena
As a provider, honestly no matter how smart and normal a girl may seem to be, any girl who gets into this business has to have some sort of psychological disorder. I don't mean anything crazy, it may be anything from narcissism, to depression, to addictions, or just a case of low self-esteem. I now a lot of people will argue with me but when you really get down to it and if she is honest enough to admit it or you get close enough to her to see it (such as living with her for a period of time), you will be able to recognize it. I believe many men get caught up in the fantasy and think it is sexy and hot to be with a provider, but long turn it seldom works out. That's my opinion.
what is the ratio, if there is one between # of reviews and number of 'visits' a provider may have had? she retired after about a year as a provider and had 13 reviews [on TER] [she took great pains to get rid of her website/message board invites, e mail acct...when she retired]
There is too many variables to even guess. But here is the thing it doesn't matter. One or a thousand client she still was a provider and sold sex for money. You can ether deal with that or you can't. If you need to know ask, but you likely will not like the answer. I will likely be in the hundreds. My wife is well over a thousand. She is STD free so it doesn't matter if it was one or a million to me.
Posted By: goldenrod7
is there a reasonable chance of taking the relationship to a different level
My wife retired shortly after we met and later un-retired for her own reasons, and guess what, my marriage is going well as any I know of. It will be a bit harder because of the fact she is/was a provider and you are/was a john. But it can work if you are both willing to work at it. Have you even asked if she feels like she even wants a real non-paid BF/GF relationship with you? If you want how me and my wife make it work click this post:
A few questions you must ask yourself and answer honestly is: Can I deal with my wife's past? Can I live with her and never use her past against her? Do I love her? Does she love me? Do we have common goals and morals? Do we enjoy enough of the same things to have enough common interests outside the bedroom to keep things going? If the answer is no or not sure you better rethink this or get to the point you can say yes to all of them before moving forward or you will likely have issues.
Posted By: goldenrod7
also what is the prime motivator to become a provider??
money sex adventure
It is as varied as any profession. Some do it as it has flexible hours so they can be with their kids. Some for the good pay. Some they have issues and they need the praise it can bring. Some the adventure of braking societies rules. Some feel they have little choice. Some as a hobby like us guys. There is no one answer for every lady. If you need to know your lady friends reason ask her she is the only one who could answer for her.
Posted By: goldenrod7
I started seeing a provider who quickly became my ATF about 5 years ago. She and and I have continued our relationship she having 'retired' about 4 years ago.
we have shared many things of ourselves. I have a few questions
what is the ratio, if there is one between # of reviews and number of 'visits' a provider may have had? she retired after about a year as a provider and had 13 reviews [on TER] [she took great pains to get rid of her website/message board invites, e mail acct...when she retired]
is there a reasonable chance of taking the relationship to a different level
also what is the prime motivator to become a provider??
money sex adventure
this lady [and she is all lady] is from a suburb of a large mid western city, college degree, worked in an ad agency for a number of years and was briefly married [18 months] right out of college
went into providing at about 33 left when she was 34
thanks to all for your comments/answers/ take on my query
we have been on a number of civvy dates [lunch/dinner/drinks], I think some of my questions are better posed to her but feel this is a very personal issue and is none of my business. if she chooses to tell me fine , if not fine just trying to get some thoughts which you have all provided.
I have met two providers that had gone through bad divorces and were buying out their former husband's share of their houses. I met several that were saving to buy a house outright. Most I meet are going to college or grad school and use the money made from providing to meet education expenses. I never asked for the information, it was given after the ladies became comfortable with me.
Why are you asking these questions now? If you start seeing her professionally 5 years ago and she's been out of the business for 4 years I don't understand why you'd be asking these questions now.
According to your post you continued your relationship these past 4 years. Are you saying you've been continuing to see her as an escort for these 4 years. If so, that's not a relationship, that's business.
There is another important question you did not ask. How she would feel about seeing someone who's in the hobby in her civilian life. She knows by definition you are a liar, cheater, and criminal by definition (we all are). You have focused 100% on her issues ie: how many men she's been with.
Do you think she may be wondering how many escorts you've been with....and whether you'd be continuing your hobby while with her?
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. I can understand how it is a turn on to some. For me, I'm not curious and if I ever get the urge to know, I know she will willingly discuss it with me.