Carolina it is not about you he speaks its about me. And maybe someone else as well who knows.
When my SO and I split Lungman started emailing me.
I would answer but he wanted more. The emails got to be daily at one point. There was never going to be more I just was not interested. Then I went back to my SO.
All of a suddren I am cheating. Says who? You? I don't think so. I see things the way I do and live my life as I see fit. It does not reflect on you so don't worry about it.
My SO is very loved and happy and theres no reason to change things because You do not approve.
Sorry you can not seem to find what you want.
I may as well address this subject now,since i'm retiring.(yes,i know,it's been addressed before)
Ladies,if your SO knows what you do,he should at least, have the option of seeing other women.If he doesn't know,he needs to,and then he can decide if he wants to be with you.I'm sorry,I know i'm going to get CRUCIFIED for this post but,no matter how pretty you wrap it,your still cheating on him.(unless he agrees to living an OPEN relationship).
BTW,,,men,if your married,it's still called cheating!
Ok,,,let me have it!
so long,
Lungman
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 4:40:43 AM
and something tells me you are feeling a little uncomfortable with what you have done..I do hope it will be easy for you to leave this lifesyle with no regrets..
Being a woman who has lived a secret life for so many years it can be stressful at times..No i'm not in a relationship nor have I been for over 10 years.
Being judgemental of others will not make you feel any better..
I may not have added any fuel to your fire here but hope I have helped put out some of your own flames.
Good Luck and i'll miss you
Kisses Haley
Haley,not feeling uncomfortable at all!I'm not married,so i have no guilt!
Even if the SO doesn't know,he's still being taken advantage of!
Sad,but the heart must have to really(wax cold)
to do such a thing,to someone you love.(maybe ya just don't love him).
I know,i opened a can of worms!
of whether one or the other partner can have other sex partners.
The decision should be based upon each other expectations of each other and the state of the relationship in general, shouldn't it?
After all, just because you are married to a gossip columnist, doesn't make it OK for you to go around and tell people your SO's secrets.
I bet if you asked your SO,"Would you rather i be a gossip columnist or a provider",forgive me if i'm wrong,but i think the answer to that one is simple!
I would whole heartedly agree that if the SO is ok with what I do then it would not be appropiate for him to see other women I mean the money I earn he helps to spend if we live together or have children. So its just income and no it would not be ok for me to sleep with some guy just because he is handsome or has a big cock you know...
because you think / feel something is right / wrong or good /bad does not mean that you should expect others to feel the same way. such things are personal and individual.
I would like to know, though - what are you feeling / thinking, that is strong enough to motivate you to make a post like this, *expecting* "crucifixion"?
Cheers
relatinships are complicated at best, even outside of this career choice.
Being an outsider looking in you really do not know all the inner workings of others affairs. You are not there.
I agree that your feelings are reflective of your view.
No its not the best way to enter into a relationship but its not your relationship so for you...no worries.
we all hide an aspect of ourselves from our partners to some degree. Some are just larger degrees than others.
I keep both worlds seperate, so no he has not known what I do but that part of me, he does not know anyway. Nicole is not in his world and he is not in Nicoles world.
This is a business.
But if it interferes with your relationship with him,,,you get my point!
Just because we are men,doesn't mean we don't have feelings also!(we are not just a lump of clay).All i need to know is,that it is disrespectful to him.
I adore him I could not love him more. It is Seperate. My heart is his alone, so no its not disrespectful what so ever.
Just because you do not see things the way I do, it does not make you right or wrong just a different view point.
Yes Nicole,but if he knew,would he feel the same about you?,,,,You know everything about him and you choose to luv him.I think he deserves the same.I know he doesn't know,and so it shouldn't make any difference,but it does!
True!
What motivated me!I can't mention names!I just know 1st hand,their are SO's out their,that are expected to remain faithful,while their lady provides!If you think that's fair,so be it.I just don't agree!
Fair is just what someone wants versus someone else.
Since I am in an open relationship, and since I am decidedly averse to monogamous commitment (either giving or receiving), I've never *understood* how it is that a provider may have an SO who is expected by them to be faithful (monogamous). However, my lack of understanding does not make their choices invalid. If I accepted a commitment of monogamy I would feel obligated to reciprocate - there again, that is just "me". I do not hold others accountable to make choices according to my values.
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 6:27:54 AM
That kind of enlightened and honest thinking has no place in our society!
First, you allow other people to believe and devote their faith as they see fit. Then you start saying things alluding to the notion that any person should be responsible for their own happiness while not impinging on others' pursuit of same.
Next, you'll be implying that we can't simply impose our own world/moral view on all others because it makes us more comfortable with our own little failings.
Where do you get these crazy ideas!?!
Can we please get back to the people that post on a sex-for-sale web site so they can complain about others' moral choices?
Stop being reasonable?,,Now that makes alot of sense doesn't it!
Good point Greg,,,I quess i don't understand!
I guess since i was treated like shit in my marriage,,,i kind of blew a gasket,when i caught wind of another guy being treated the same way!
It all comes down to,it seems like men these days are percieved as nothing more than,"Bumbling
Idiots"...Not true!,,We are not as complex as women,but our needs are real also!,,,Actually,i've found for the most part,providers understand this better than most!
its my job!
This isn't dating by the way.
There is a huge difference between "being" the provider and calling a provider.
Its absolutely not the same.
I have never cheated on anyone in a relationship.
Not even this one.
I am working. When you call a provider you are filling Your fantasy.
When I see a client, I am working. When I go home I do not think about my clients, they are work. I don't fantasize about them I don't dream about them.
It is my job.
Now if he, my SO wanted to be an escort, so be it. Take appts from clients, and no that would not be cheatng.
Now if he picks up a girl in a bar to fulfill a fantasy, thats cheating. There is Desire there.
thats not work.
you clearly do not get it.
You've got to feel something Nicole!(your human)
it's impossible for you to feel NOTHING!
Your right,i don't get it!
this topic is much too complicated to deal with in a hit and run environment. Each relationship is its own with many elements in common with others (we are, after all, all human beings.)
How to understand the funeral of former President of France Mitterrand attended by his wife and mistress who publicly comforted each other for their loss if you are inside a traditional American marriage.
How can I judge my white professional friend who gets off on being tied up in a room while his wife has rough and unprotected sex over and over with two or three preferably black preferably working class men until, when they are done, he DATY to clean her up as she slaps him and the men mock him. (He used to have me test the group for STDs before their "date.")
How to judge me, a truly devoted father of five, a considerate and supportive (I hope) husband in my second (20 year long) marriage, a very attentive grandfather of (so far) five who also indulges in relationships with friends and providers and now a steady girl friend.
I have yet to meet Haley, for example but she sounds like a very bright, very emotionally sensitive lady who would make a great friend and even a great wife yet she enjoys a profession which many "nice decent church going" folks would judge harshly.
Judging others as long as they do not damage others is a very presumptuous business.
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 6:02:53 AM
he is very thoughtful, and I know that what he says here is absolutely true. I struggled to be faithful to my ex for 10 years, only to discover after our divorce that not only did she cheat on me, but she also became pregnant by another man, and she lied during our divorce proceedings.
I can't get mad or angry at her. For the most part, she lives in a fairytale world. I wonder, do most people? ok, I guess technically in these instances it is cheating. But human emotion, and the range of normal is so very wide... Watch as america tunes into a show called "Big Love" - that normal?
and consider - polygamy until relatively recently was considered normal.
Prostitution - was not only legal, but Gen. Hooker during the civil war promoted it! to keep the troops happy....
For the most part, most of the escorts I have met, and the gentlemen who frequent them are great people - I genuinely like them. I enjoy their friendship - more so, than those whose predelections I do not know. In quiet suburbia, which houses contain the abusive marriages, the white collar criminal, the child abuser...? which. This hobby, remember is between two consenting adults - it involves an exchange - determined to be fair by two people.
yea, judge away...
Absolute truth,,,now theirs a word you don't hear very often anymore,If it where so,we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I didn't say i didn't like anyone,there's alot of you i like very much.
I'm not judging,just making my opinion know and throwing it out there for Gen. Discussion.
Your white professional friend,can anyone say,"evil",oops, i forgot,that word is not politically correct.God help us,for stooping so low!
Devoted?,,Why are you know longer married then? I know,it was probably her fault!
First, my friend and his wife each very much enjoy their little hobby. I have trouble understanding their pleasure, but I see absolutely no evil there.
Thank you for your concern for my marriage, but I am still married and happily so. My first marriage ended after 14 years, but I can find no fault with either my ex or myself. We tried our best and it simply and definitely did not work and was not workable. We both got remarried around the same time (some years after our split so not rebound) and are both happy in out now 20 year marriages.
Ok mister ... um ... sorry, doctor, how can you possibly condone married people engaging in acts that make them happy, possibly enhance and strengthen their union, and don't hurt anyone?!? This is outrageous! I don't like these things so how could they? They must be warped.
And you, not even harboring resentment or vitriolic feelings towards your ex. But instead wishing her happiness. What is the Institution of Divorce coming to?
I'm heading over to the P&R Board. These thoughtful postings are giving me a headache!
Would you allow your wife to hobby?
If not,how can you say your devoted to her and hobby at the same time?
Does she know you are a hobbyist?
It was only After my divorce,that i started!
Big Difference,my friend!
more outre than sex work really.
I figured that I couldn't turn her on sexually then let her have her fun with others.
It also removed some (but not enough apparently) of the tension from my seeing providers.
I would have been fine with that arrangement had she not decided to cash in her chips and leave.
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 10:36:03 AM
"a fairly feeble effort to create drama by projecting his own morality on all others. However, very limber with an amazing ability to contort his head between his legs and insert his head into his...".
Until you walk in the other person's shoes don't be so quick to throw stones.
Bye, bye and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
Not throwing stones!,,,Have you walked in my shoes? Sounds like your judging me!
How about I come right out and say That's Bullshit.
Those are YOUR feelings on the subject. Unless my SO decided to go out, build himself a website and advertise as a fucking hooker then NO he can not go out and fuck other women and he for damn sure can not go out and spend OUR money on it.
The point is, if he lets me go out and hook up with hot fucking guys as much as I want to then perhaps we have a reason to negotiate the agreement but I DON'T.
If you for one second believe that there is EQUAL footing on this subject you are dead wrong.
Being in a relationship is one thing. WORK is another. They are two separate and distinct things and should not be confused.
The day that "we" as a couple start to engage in sex with other people we find MUTUALLY attractive and neither of us gets PAID for it, then that is equal. Don't think for one second that ANY woman is REALLY going to agree with you. If you do your head is really stuck in the sand.
You have made the relationship perfectly clear. I have always felt it is hard for clients to get it since we fantasize that you are having as much fun as we are rather than working as hard as you do to keep that fantasy alive. I do believe that there can be a friendship between a provider and a regular client as there is between me and some of my patients, but this does not change the fact that you are working while I am indulging myself and paying you to use your skills to allow me to do just that.
None of this is news Lungman. How a lady in this hobby handles her real life relationships is her business and hers alone. The same goes for men. I knew damn well I was cheating on my wife. I didn't care.
If you are having a crisis of conscience that is for you to deal with in whatever way works for you.
We can use me for an example
I have an SO
Going on 17 months
I never thought I would have an SO. I was married twice. Once to an alcoholic and a second to a workaholic/adulterer.
I spent many years as a single mom. Never dating. Not having intimacy..until one day.
Being an escort satisfied most of my intimate needs. Almost. I would still be alone most nights and I really wanted to be in a guys head. Full time.
I had men fall for me..but not I for them.
Then one day 17 months ago everything changed.
From the very beginning my SO knew about me. Not from experience, but he knew who I was and he told me. Right away I slowed down my appts. I spent every minute with my SO that I wasn't spending with my kids and dog. I kinda jumped the gun. Eager to be in a relationship I gave up a few things too early. Like my independence. And like most relationships..there were some bumps and bruises along the way. Not physical ones. I think we broke up a few times...
Before our first year was over...I wanted somethings to change and some things to be back the way they were. I blame myself. I jumped in way to fast. You can see the picture. Before I knew it I was living with him. Miss Independent...she was lost.
Being in any relationship is quite a bit of work.
In the beginning my SO was a little jealous. He wanted what I wrote about. Cocked and Loaded. The thing he was always afraid of was me falling in love with someone else. One of my clients. The thing I wanted from him was his love for me and not just my physical self.
What works for us is our constant communication. Yes, sometimes he reads the boards. When we are together I try not to put anything right in his face. I respect him and he respects me.
One day I will be all his. I am not sure when that will occur. I say it's when we get a fence for the dogs. That means more to me than a ring.
When it comes to this hobby, I participate. My participation is more on the boards than the bedroom. Not that I don't get interest for my services. I do. But I also have children, he has kids, I have dogs. My kids know what I do. I am who I am. I am loved for what lies within.
At one point in our relationship I left my SO. Last Easter. During that time I exchanged a few pms and discussions and a call or two with lungman. We shared our heartaches and hardons(no pun intended) so to speak. But nothing came of it. Now please don't misunderstand me when I say this. While talking to lungman, I felt guilty. I also felt...goodness...the grass is not greener on the other side. Our conversations lasted a little over a week, I would guess. He(lungman) seemed to realize as well as I did that we would only be boardmates. What were we considering in the beginning. Meeting..having a date. A civie date.
Anyway...I got back with my SO. Lungman and I continued to chat on the boards. I never looked back.
What I think has happened is this. Lungman looks at me and he is disgusted. He sees this woman who has an SO, yet guys come right out and state that they want me. He reads my sexy writings and he wonders how I can fly like I do.
So this is what I say to you Lungman.
I love my SO. And he loves me. I work hard at our relationship. And everyday we get closer.
I guess as far as my hobby career goes...I will soon be retired. I believe I understand the needs and desires of men. I really need to write a book. From all of this I have gained the most. Self-confidence, independence, on the outside as well as the inside, I am shining.
But I don't think Lungman can understand. Even I sometimes wonder. At different times, when the light hits me, does my SO see me in a negative way? When I'm sitting watching Law and Order with my kids and it's about a prostitute...I have wondered if at that moment do I come to their mind?
Fleeting thoughts for my mind but a heavy weight for someone else's.
I can see how someone like Lungman can struggle with all of this. I'm sure other guys have wrestled with similar demons. Wouldn't we all want to be in a relationship with a SO that understands our needs?
Lucky for me that my SO loves me.
So I think that because Lungman isn't getting what he needs, he has decided to call it quits. But not before he calls us a few names. What he wants is love. We all want it.
I'm sorry Lungman, that you chose this way to go out. You are leaving dazed and confused. If you want to leave, just do it. But don't call the people that have befriended you, whores.
Not calling you a whore!
Also,thanks for your input!(even-though,not true).
I wish you and your SO,a happy future together!
ps,at least your SO knows what you do,i was speaking to those whose SO's don't.
To those of you that are so independent,and he wants more of your time(reasonable),because he loves you,and your not willing to give him more time,then let him go,and be with someone who will!,,,You want your wants,it's only fair,that you allow him his!
What makes you think you can shit on your SO,and he's supposed to stand by and take it!..It is the same as verbally abusing him,etc!...Geez,wish some guys on here with balls,would step up to the plate!You know what i'm saying is true!(and i didn't use an alias!)
The whore word just represented all the mean things you called everyone..in one word...
I think you are unhappy.
You wanted a relationship with an escort.
You wrote about it on the boards.
You can't deny that.
Now all of a sudden you hit rock bottom.
How did that happen?
Just the other day you were talking about yourt next date.
If you think a date with an escort is anything like having an escort for an SO...you are wrong. I'm not up on some pedestal. My SO isn't getting his dick sucked every night. I consider us like any other couple. He works. I work very little. Between the two of us we have 6 kids. There is where our work is. We make time for intimacy. We even go to Adam and Eve and buy toys. We cook and clean. At the end of the day he is who he is and I am me.
As much as I love this hobby and the wonderful moments I share, my real love is my family. Don't ever forget that we are R E A L people. The mistake you made was to join us and then turn around and judge us. You need to deal with Y O U R issues.
I would never have thought that I would wake up this morning and see your post.
I went way beyond the norm in trying to understand your position. Reflecting like I did. Revealing. That does not bother me. I have always been very open. But you have done such a huge turn-a-round, that even I am stunned.
I can't waste any more time on this thread. For me it is fini.
Carolina it is not about you he speaks its about me. And maybe someone else as well who knows.
When my SO and I split Lungman started emailing me.
I would answer but he wanted more. The emails got to be daily at one point. There was never going to be more I just was not interested. Then I went back to my SO.
All of a suddren I am cheating. Says who? You? I don't think so. I see things the way I do and live my life as I see fit. It does not reflect on you so don't worry about it.
My SO is very loved and happy and theres no reason to change things because You do not approve.
Sorry you can not seem to find what you want.
I would say lungman is one of them, He has already been chastised for stalking one other provider.
I make a lot of cracks about some of the ladies here, but putting up with the "stalker types" is one of the things I could never imagine having to deal with.
phrases like "I'm your number one fan" or something akin enter the conversation....RUN (do not walk) for the EXIT SIGN!
i've never used that phrase,or ever even implied it!
Sorry dude,,,,unless you know what your talking about(which you don't),move along!,,,The one time,"Drama Queen",accused anyone and everyone of stalking her...All i did was mention to her,that maybe she should lay low for awhile,and all her bashers would go away!,,Ya know what,it worked!
I guess there is more to this than I ever thought
One thing we all can agree on.
We get some awesome reading for our pleasure.
Maybe that's why I have a stack of books that need my attention.
Thanks for the heads up
xoxo
That explains allot about why I couldn't muster-up any energy to respond to his post. It just seemed too incongruent. Glad to hear you have the love back in your life. 
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 11:31:17 AM
That is what we are building on. His character and mine. We both have strong characters but we are very different.
I remember when I was divorced the second time. It felt like failure. The stigma I felt. I don't feel that anymore.
My biggest supporter, is my boyfriend. He truly is dedicated to me. He tells me that if I only knew how much he thinks about me....I got what I wanted. To be in his HEAD.
I thank you
I used to believe that I would die of a broken heart. To be heart broken is like dying. I also used to think I was cursed. How could someone with so much love to give never feel true love?
I remember when I was 18 and I enlisted in the USAF. I had never had sex. I had never felt love. At that point in my life, I confused sex with love.
These days these last few years have been growing years for me. I think as long as you can keep separate the love and the sex, your needs will be met in this hobby. And I am forever grateful, for when this journey ends for me I will have my man and he will have me.
I have found what i want!
I just don't think it's right,that you think he needs to "Tow The Line",or else!
If he told you,"Women,you need to tow the line",you would be gone!
You want your independence,well maybe he wants and should have a women in his life,that doesn't consider him "Needy",just because he wants you there!,,,Geez,why is that so hard to understand?
we all have different degrees of how much time we want or can spend with our SO.
Like Carolina we too have 6 kids between us, my 3 and his 3 and I prefer NOT to neglect my responsabilities and my identity as a seperate person to be in a relationship. So yes with me...there is something wrong with that. I have a full life with family and friends, classes work my art the gym classes at the gym and so on. I am not stoppig everything to have a relationship. It fits into my life or it doesn't.
I do not expect anyone to change their lives.
you obviously prefer someone who is willing to drop everything to be involved with you. And Yes i do see that as needy. Relationships are not what define us as people and they should only enhance your life, not try and stop it from blossoming.
I do not care if you agree with me or not. WE are not in a relationship so it will never be Your problem.
find something else to stress out about that does concern you.
oh and by the way, he can end this relationship any time he feels he is in need of more from someone else. appearently he wants to be with me...we he and I that is, are ok with the way things are.
-- Modified on 2/3/2009 9:57:04 PM
I misunderstood then,sounded to me like you wanted him to change his life.(i still don't understand why you can have sex with other men,and he can't with other women)?,,,But like you said,it is none of my business
Dude you need to stop projecting your demons onto others.
I've got plenty of balls and I am stepping up to the plate. The hobby is what it is. If its not for you than so be it.
Just because you want more than someone is willing to give doesn't make that person, or you for that matter, a bad person. Some of us can deal with, apparently you can't. Your loss, not ours.
I don't want anything!
Just making a point,that some people want their cake and eat it to!,,I just feel it's not right to expect your SO to walk the straight and narrow,when your not willing to do it yourself!
i believe that everyone should live an authentic, honest life although i can understand why that's an unrealistic goal for some.
in my case, i would never do any of this without my Husband's permission. it is not a matter of him tolerating it, it is a matter of him wanting it and supporting it as well. if i couldn't have that, then i would never have set foot into this biz.
btw, we do not have an "open" relationship in the sense that most use the term. but, we are not sexually monogamous and never have been. as Head of the Household and Master he is free to pursue sexual relationships with other women as he pleases...as his wife and slave, my interactions with other men can only be with his prior consent and under his control. with my escorting, he has the right to prevent me from seeing a particular gent and he can even pull the plug on everything if he wished.
But when you describe the slave master thing I get it but I don't. As long as you are happy. I just get a little sad when I read it. But I will deal with it.
SC
why on earth would that make you sad? i came into this lifestyle with eyes wide open, and i am the type of woman who could never be happy and fulfilled living any other way (at least not in this day and age...perhaps in another place or at another time, when values were different, i would be happy simply being "wife"). our different needs and desires, beliefs and ways are what makes people and life interesting and vibrant, no?
I believe you have an interesting and vibrant life as you say. When you post about your SO..I get sad/uncomfortable with the slave/master role which you describe.
.
Forgive me for imposing on your post.
You get sad,,,because it is sad!
Wow,,,and I,have a few screws loose!
once again you disagree with Lillis choices so you see them as wrong.
they r not choices I would ever make but they seem to make her happy and really that is the bottom line.
you don't have to understand them here as well they do not involve You.
no judgement,,,i can't help when i read something like that,it makes me sad.
i mean, i'm not going to dwell on it all day!
but at the time i read it,that's the way i felt,Sad!
Now you SC,I did judge!
I admit i was out of line,your life is none of my business...Just some left over frustration from being treated like shit in my marriage! I was wrong directing it at you!
so let me get this straight...supposedly you are preaching the virtues of honesty and forthrightness, of respect and openness, but when i come along basically agreeing with you as i have exactly that, you say that it is "sad" and that i have "screws loose"???
i do understand that this entire thread was merely a front for venting your own personal issues, but you could at least show the merest hint of courtesy to others, especially when someone is showing support for your ideas.
But I just want to say that I didn't mean to offend you. While I don't and can't begin to understand the lifestyle that you live, I in no way judge you. I respect you and your ability to choose. I did learn something once again, sometimes it is best to keep my mouth shut.
It is this
I read your posts and I have this picture of you in my mind. A free spirit. And then a few times you mention your slave life and I get a little wigged out. It is my problem not yours. My apologies
Carolina, your words did not offend me, i was only surprised that they could evoke that reaction (sadness) in someone. i know that you had no negative intent, it is all good.
as far as being a free spirit, well i suppose in today's world i am, one would have to be a free spirit to embrace the beliefs and live the life that i do in 2009, especially in the West. however i have many "old-fashioned" values and beliefs regarding gender roles and relationships, so the lifestyle i have chosen is in line with that. the idea of being some roaring, proudly independent feminist the way society now preaches we all should be is shocking and frightening (not to mention disheartening) to me, to be honest.
that is one of the primary reasons i am in this biz...to show the select gents i see that all is not lost, that there are still old-fashioned submissive women out there who believe in putting a man and his needs first, who are happy to serve without resentment or complaint.