I have been with 18 year olds who were plenty mature enough for sex, even mature enough for someone my age to actually be with. OTOH I have been with thirty year old emotional basket cases.

I don't think you can arbitrarily set a chronological age for maturity. One thing I have found is that young women from countries other than the USA have seemed more likely to have that type of maturity than American late teens.

I routinely spent extended time with women barely twenty in countries like Costa Rica and Colombia, without feeling like I was out with my daughter (fictional daughter, I don't actually have one).

I do have to confess, as fifty starts becoming even more distant in my rearview mirror, I find myself more attracted to women at least in their twenties than I do the "uber young" girls still in their teens, but anybody that thinks I am maturing is in for a fight. lol

I could do it wrong a whole bunch of times each night. lol

I've also met some 18 and 19 year olds with multiple children, I certainly didn't feel like I was deflowering a virgin or robbing anyone of their innocence.

She did have a young looking face, but was, in my eyes, mature beyond her years.  She is, however, the only teenager I have been with in my hobby career.  I have no problem with the young girls, but so few of them have a sufficient number of reviews, if any at all, for me to take a chance and see them.  BTW,I was 58 at the time.  Never even thought about the age difference, or the fact that she was only 18.

Swim

Dear Vanica:
I was wondering if you feel strongly about a psychological and emotional concomitant with respect to being ready to become a provider instead of just someone reaching the age of consent and why? Also what are the different facets of psychological,emotional and intellectual development that you would consider before one make the step to become a provider?

well...

I think I still have some.  But, you tell me.

Whenever I get the hots for an 18yo provider here's what happens to me:

A little man, dressed all in white, sitting on my right shoulder says to me "My Lord, HalfHour. That girl in nearly one-third your age. Seriously. Why, you have a daughter almost DOUBLE that age! No, you know better than that."

Then this other little man, dressed all in red, sitting on my left shoulder says, "Oh Halfy-Boy... Take a look at her! She's legal! Just imagine how sweet that little pussy i-i-i-i-s. Mmm-mmm. Sure, she's inexperienced, but look at those titties. Look at them! They float gently toward the sky."

Man in white on the right screams: "FOR THE LOVE OF JEHOVAH-ALLAH-AHURA MAZDA-BRAHMAN/ATMAN, HALFHOUR! LOOK AWAY!"

The little man in red continues: "Ignore him Halfy, he just needs to get laid. Like you do. Now as I was saying, Halfy, look at those spinner legs and ass. When she stands naked with her feet together you can still see those sweet pussylips from behind her!! Oh,oh! Now you know she's probably never had that sweet twat licked the way you do it. Sh-i-i-i-i-i-t, Halfy, you might be the first big papa to make her squirt!"

Man on the right shoulder says slowly and firmly "Mr. Hour, it's wrong. It's kust wrong!You are not a dirty old man. There are plenty of women your age you could marry. Just stop! How could you explain this to your mother? Or your daughter?. OR... the mother OF your daughter for that matter? Click on Google News and stop this silliness."

Red guy says "Shhhheeesh. What-EV-ER! Do what you want Halyf. Your mother's dead, your daughter could give a shit & you know it. And your ex? Well, well, te-huh, she left you for a fucking 70-old man. As if she could say shit about a guy going young. Besides, when she was 16 and you were 17, the two of you we're using fake IDs to get into XXX theater, and then you'd go fuck like rabbits tryin' out whatever you saw on that screen. Forget about the whole deal. You ain't getting any younger. If you want to listen to 'WHITEY' over there, be my guest."

That's the point where I usually pack up the nipple clamps, pussy pump, butt plug and bondage tape, and make the call for an appointment.

White guy yells while he's tumbling off my shoulder: "She probably has a pimp, you know.."






HalfHour

regardless of the age of consent for "civvie" sex.

Maybe one of our resident lawyers can pull themselves away from their little squabble to chime in on this?

young is too young?

I am in my late forties, and I like banging twenty something’s because that’s just the phase I’m in right now.  I’ve had a Milf phase as well as an “any warm woman will  do” phase over the years.
There’s an agency in my town that seems to specialize in legal 18 or 19 year olds.  I’ve always kind of brushed them off, but was thinking the other day: “what difference could a couple of years make anyway?”  A lot IMHO.

I came across a profile of an eighteen year old  in my prior research  that gave me great pause, and  it has bothered me ever since.  I’ve linked the first review (done when she claimed to be 18) for those with VIP, but to summarize:

She has a website and advertises on escort malls, BP, and on CL. So she would be one of those Internet Providers some around here are so proud of.   The reviewer saw her in a hotel room she shared with two other girls, who remain in the room, and all three of the girls seemed stoned.  The guy is somewhat pressured into letting the other two girls stay, and they spend the session sitting on the other bed watching TV and talking on the phone while this guy is getting serviced in the bed next to them.

So, this guy gets a CBJ and then asks for sex. When he asks for Mish, she's either too stoned or inexperienced to know what that is, so one of the other girls turns from the TV and explains it, then goes back to watching TV.  This guy starts pounding away and notices that Jasmine has her eyes closed, but does respond when he's trying to kiss.  Well, the session progresses - at one point the rubber breaks, she goes into the bathroom and then comes back out and continues, but it finally ends.  Here, this teenager is in a place in her life where she is turning a trick while stoned on a bed right next to two of her "friends" in some Motel in NY.

I'm sure that she thought at the time that she had it all together.  She continued to provide after this, and she may very well still be providing.  But can an 18 or 19 year old really have it together enough for this life?  

And what does it say about the Hobby?

So, In YOUR humble opinion, is 18 too young?  I think so, no matter how much she thinks she has it together.

What do you think?

The legal age is 18. And if you just want to sleep with her - 18 is the rule. There are no real moral issues to deal with.

As for a relationship, if you are in late-40s, you probably want to stick with women closer to and older than 30. My reasoning behind this is the fact that the maturity level of someone under 25 is such that not only will the two of you not have much in common experience wise, but also you are at such an emotional, mental and maturity advantage, it's almost like taking advantage of her. Not to mention, just a little creepy (which is probably an involuntary response since I feel it is wrong). The funny thing about this fact is that a lot women who would be involved with a man so much older may often be there for less than "respectable" reasons.

Now I know how life is - you meet someone with one goal and then feelings get involved and things are different. However, I wonder if your intentions were bad in the first place, can a change of heart be enough to make this kind of relationship work.

Now there are always exceptions to the rule, but don't use the results of 1% to make informed decisions, use the other 99%. To do otherwise is irresponsible.


Kisses,
Vanica

In any event, I know that 18 is legal, but should she be a provider - particularly in light of the example I used.

BTW, morals are always involved.  It just depends on what your morals are.

But even still, this particular 18 year old's problem is not one that is restricted to young girls.

I can't tell you how many 29 year old's go thru life (and sessions) stoned. But there age and maturity, just makes them better at hiding it.

There are ladies who for whatever reason should not be providers. It is probably more likely an 18 year old's lack of experience makes her more susceptible to going down the wrong path, but it's no guarantee or real measure for such.

Kisses,
Vanica

I am sure there are plenty of 18yr olds that can f* like pornstars but personally for me at 18 i wasnt as sexually open and passionate and i think even now at 24yrs old I am just hitting my sexual peak.if your into the barley legal fantasy though it will probally be loads of fun and i personally would say go for it,just be sure the agency is legitamite and the girl is really of age you dont want to wind up in an underage prostitution sting xoxo Lilly Lockhart

I've been with two girls who said (and looked like) 18.  I thought it was a little weird, but in a good way.  Turned me on.

All I can tell you is the first 18-year-old I saw was so great at giving head I had to stop her and say, "When did you first suck a cock?  How did you get to be so good so quickly?"  She replied with a smile, "I just love to give pleasure."

An 18 yr old is too young for me and I won't be seeing any. I'm old enough to be her grandfather. It has nothing to do with legal since 18 is legal. It's me. 18 is too young for me. I'm inclined to think that 18 is too young to be a provider too, though it is legal. Maturity does vary in people and I have met some very mature ladies in the early twenties but 18, not going to happen.

Well she and her friends are obviously party gals and don't give a crap about what they are doing.  This scenario isn't because she is young, it because she's a druggie.  Has nothing to do with age.  There are girls in their twenties, thirties, etc., that act this way.

In the example you provide I think you’re quite right to be concerned. There is absolutely no doubt that somebody in that room should have had the decency to put a stop to it. And, any guy who would still fuck that girl, under those circumstances, should have is dick cut off and fed to him.

Again…IMHO…

But, that doesn’t mean there are “no” 18 y olds out there self-possessed enough to be in this business. Then again, sexual maturity and emotional maturity are two very, very different things.

So, personally, being a grown-up, I see no margin for error when answering the question: Am I fucking another grown-up? And, there is very little chance in hell, or anywhere else, that I would bed an 18 yr old, P4P or otherwise.

Kentucky and Arkansas. When I lived in Michigan, it meant you could get in trouble if you bought a lapdance from an underage stripper, but if you took her out and banged her you'd be on safe ground.

Age isn't the beginning and end, but it does set a legal requirement. No matter how you feel morally, this limit must be respected.

As for becoming a provider, I am not sure if one could every be ready? In fact, being a bit younger (21/22) when you start might be a good thing in the sense that you are probably still fairly open minded about sex without many hang ups or bad habits.

That being said, the most important emotional and mental factor is how one feels about sex and men. If you think of it in any negative way, you will have trouble in the long run. Society, however has all these rules about sex - even for consenting adults - that being open and not having hang ups takes time and work.

Second, a woman has to be unselfish, but not a push over. Confidence, knowledge of self and worth is also important. These are important steps in emotional development for anyone, but especially providers.

Other considerations come from just deciding on one's style, how they want to market, etc.

I will be honest, getting in to escorting is not that difficult, it's staying, being successful and not going bat shit crazy in the process that is the challenge most face. Some either give up on relationships, become cold-hearted, turn to drugs/booze or just become shells of their former self.

First of all, the review you link also says that the guy observed stretch marks that he thought were from childbirth. How did that happen, immaculate conception? He also mentions that her ad mentioned Greek and other stuff. Her ignorance of "mish" during the session just seems like a stoned out, addle brained moron talking or she misunderstood whatever he said or mumbled ("Mmshhh." "What? What's that?" "Mish-shun-er-ry." "Oh! Next time, take the marbles out of your mouth.").

If those girls were new and innocent, would they really be yacking on the cell phone and watching TV or would they be looking on in amazement? They seem like young, stupid girls who probably lost their virginity sometime between 12 and 16 years of age. Jasmine might have been only 18 at the time of going pro, but even if she was 22 or 25 she was probably in over her head. Her 5 or 6 reviews might mean, what, 50 or 60 clients before she finally called it quits? Years later, she still might not have grown up (and probably has 3 more kids, living on welfare).

Anybody remember the Traci Lords scandals? Even though underage, she fooled the US State Department into issuing her a passport with an "older" age. She then fooled the porn producers. She then fooled the public with performances that were said to be exceptional. (Honest: I NEVER saw a Traci Lords video. I wasn't into the adult stuff back then. I didn't even know what she looked like until I saw her on a mainstream TV show rerun (Married With Children) and had to look up the name of the incredibly sexy blond actress.) I read a mainstream op ed piece after the scandal about the absurdity (in the opinion of the writer) of the illegality of this voluptuous, experienced, mature but only 17 chronological year old WOMAN convincingly acting the parts of 25-30 year old women in mature situations compared to the legality of an 18 (or 25!) year old hottie dressing up as a young schoolgirl or even babydoll and getting seduced and screwed all over the screen. In the former, it was an "adult" fantasy (but illegal act); in the latter, it was an illegal and, to most, a perverted immoral fantasy (but legal act).

[Note to the youngsters: Back in those days, porn was scripted with plots, big budgets, location shoots, scenery changes, REAL ACTING, etc.. The gonzo porn where you just film people fucking in every position came later.]

Depending on your point of view, she would either be too obscenely young for me or I would be too obscenely old for her, but there is no way I could be interested in doing anything sexual with a teen ager  I am an old guy, but my comfort level begins in the mid to late thirties and goes on up from there.  

Aside from my personal comfort: Thinking about the girl kids I used to have sex with when I was a boy kid, the considerable control and maturity I imagine necessary to be a successful provider would be rare in someone that young.

I was with 18 year old hotties back when I was younger and can't remember any of them as good as the hotties I've been with in their mid to late 20's, 30's and 40's for that matter.

I prefer somewhat educated ladies...  18 does not really do anything for me. Can't even legally order a drink and probably has no idea what a Dirty Martini is.

I'm not going to say never... but I highly doubt I'm going to initiate contact in the first place. Too many sophisticated hotties who know what they are doing in my neck of the woods for me to even think about 18 year olds.

That review.... well... Kind of all seemed shady to me. What kind of guy would go through that shit? Seems too trashy for me. And people wonder why Hobbying is stereotyped in a negative way...

Well gee... just read that review.

Tacky.

Just my thoughts...

Vanica,

My experience... but the providers I see seem to have their shit together because they have a positive lifestyle choice outside of the business... AKA they don't get involved in all of the nightclubs and drinking / drugging it up BS known for in my neck of the woods.

Working out... etc...  Shit... even my business gets to me unless I forget about it and hit the gym or something along those lines. Yeah... sometimes it means jumping out of a plane or two or racing around the track. We all have choices on how to deal with stress... and everybody has stress.

18 might be legal for consent... but correct me if I'm wrong... unless you are in a couple of counties of Nevada... there is nothing legit about that review.

Just me... but I certainly would not have participated in that cluster fuck of a review. NEVER...

There's a shady side to the business and a good side of the business. I'll stick to the good side of it.

Obviously... some ladies just get into the business to pay the bills. There's a classy way of doing it to make sure that your bills will be paid forever....

And at 18?? Very few have any clue of what their financial path is to accomplish that.

The ladies I see? I would hire all of them in a heartbeat... Savvy and smarter then the employees I do have... LOL! Of course... the right marketing attracts me in the first place.

18 is too young for the mental level needed to handle everything.... and that review was a little disturbing in my opinion.

Just my thoughts...

I think the legal mumbo jumbo is that a minor cannot legally "consent to the illegal P4P" so it takes it from a misdemeanor being consenting adults, to something quite more serious.

I don't know for sure, let's ask Lawrence Taylor, I am sure he's an expert by now. lol

I am glad you and I have no desire to quibble about something we actually agree about, unlike our good friends yesterday who couldn't seem to agree that pimp means two different things when talking about the "legal" or "moral" definition  of the word.

but yes, I think we are on exactly the same page.

I saw Traci  Lords' videos before they were pulled.  She was amazingly hot for that era...or maybe any era.

Sounds like an inexperienced stoner and I wouln't trust anything about her, or her "friends."  The whole environment reeks of danger of every kind.  The two 18-year-olds I was with were both from highly reputable agencies I'd dealt with before.  I had even met the guy who runs one of them at a M&G.  Neither seemed girl was druggy.  Neither one set up the appointment.  Each was at a good hotel, just like any other date.  I'm not talking morality here, BTW, just a safe, professional environment.

Although I've been seeing one favorite for over six years now whose website says that she is 18, but she's been 18 all that time.

Honestly though, she could pass.  She's a waif of a spinner.

Maturity-wise, they would have to be way more mature than the typical 18 year old.

There's a kinky side of me that comes out when I'm with a youngish and slender gal (Even if she is a mother.), that I want to imagine her as a naive young thing that is giving herself to me.

It's a nice fantasy, but just that.

Must have something to do with genes that are programmed to inseminate only the youngest around.

It's always convenient to blame Mother Nature for one's faults, I guess.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns a soliciting misdemeanor into a "child exploitation" felony, even though she'd be legally fuckable absent the payment. Not to quibble, but I doubt if the statutes term that as an "age of consent" for prostitution. lol

...the signal to noise ratio is much higher and not in a good way. I've had far more missed connections, serious tardiness ("I'm so sorry I overslept!"), and general squirreliness from providers under the age of 25 than older. Yes, they are such sweet young tender things and I'm such a randy old goat, but there have been times when it just was not worth the trouble. Almost, anyway.

On general principles, I usually stick with ladies at least 21 years old, though one of my very favorites just turned 21 and I've been seeing her since just before her 20th birthday. She was almost shy back then, not so much anymore. And oh my god...

I think guys should stay away from any provider claiming to be 18. First off it's probley a down right lie as providers fudge their age more often than not,second, what if she's 17 and three-fourths? It goes the same as why I don't see any 18 or 19year old guys.

In my opinion an 18year old provider throws up red flags for me...bad family situation,drug problem, homeless, etc. MOST 18-19year olds are either in college or still living at home. I mean to get into this industry so young is rather interesting. I got into it very young at 20(well 2months from my 21st bday)I'm now 22. Plus at 18 it is possible to be "less experienced" and also less responsible.(proof in that terrible review)

In my opinion I'd rather stay away from any provider claiming to be 18-19 and very weary if you do see them. But hey, if she's "18" or "19" and has good reviews then why not? Legal is legal