Again, as with most of my posts, I am sure I will be in the minority on this one and receive countless negative feedback. But I fail to see how providers and clients can EVER develop a true meaningful friendship. I am not talking about merely being friendly with a provider during your visit, but actually considering each other a friend. (we can prob. all agree as to what defines a friend)

In order for a provider/client to have this supposed friendship, the client will have to have seen the provider several times. After all, you are not going to become great friends after just one visit. This means that in order to cultivate these caring and close relationships I so often read about on the discussion boards, the client will have paid his provider THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars. This is what I would call buying a friend.

Am I the only realist who has a problem with this?? How the fuck can you sit across from someone at dinner or next to them at a ballgame, knowing you have spent thousands of dollars on them over the months, and really consider them a true good friend??? Are you kidding me??? Are the ladies there with you solely because you paid them all of this money over a long period of time? This is the alleged foundation for your friendship?        

And please don’t argue with me that often times a lot of these meetings are off the clock, just two friends enjoying each other's company. PLEASE, that's crock of BS too. Do you realize why you have gotten to that point? I'll fill you in; it's because you have spent so much money on this woman over time, what's a few hours off the clock. Calculate how much you have spent before you get one of these off the clock get togethers. You'll see what the core of your time together is all about.    

There is good reason the proverb says never mix business with pleasure...because IT DOES NOT WORK. EVER. You can not be friends with someone who has a financial gain over you. The money ALWAYS IS AT ISSUE whether you care to admit it openly or not. In the provider/client scenario, two people have gotten together over time because one has spent thousands of dollars on the other. You can’t hide the fact that the friendship developed because of the money. YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN TO THIS POINT WITHOUT PAYMENT. Seeing a provider is an exchange of business for pleasure...She gets business, you get pleasure.      

People are going to say, well Hardy, don’t you give money (and we're not talking about $10 for lunch) to your friends to help them out, expecting no repayment whatsoever? Let's see...NO, I don’t. I would NEVER lend a friend serious money because the money would always be at issue between the two of us. There would always be that tension. Our friendship would take a serious hit. It's not worth it. It's another reason why I do not have any friends who I associate with in a business capacity. I do not want any of my business deals compromised. Business is business. Period.

This all makes no sense. I enjoy the provider for the hour I am there, and that is it. And as soon as I close the door, the provider has forgotten all about me. I have no delusions of anything more. Strictly a business transaction.

I read all of these stories about the great relationships clients and providers have; from dinners, to family outings, to meeting spouses, going to the movies, and I absolutely cringe. The money required to buy a friendship is beyond reproach. I just wish someone would have the balls to call it like it is.

If i did not have money i would not have 1/2 my friends.  Money greases the wheel to make everyones life better from bigger house to faster car to more friends to better vacations and to more beautiful women.   C'est la vie.

I have made the decision not to have Providers as friends. This is more from the reality for me that a friendship or social relationship with a provider could never go anywhere.

I hobby during the day when I can work it into my schedule. There is almost zero opportunity for a relationship with a provider to go beyond the hour or so we spend together. It not to say that with the providers I see that we don't discuss various issues during our time together but it is what it is ... entertainment for me and a business for them.

Unless something drastically changes, I will never be able to introduce a provider into my social or personal life. Would I like to, sure. Will I ever do it, not likely.

Consequently, I guard over myself and relationship with the providers I see to make sure that doesn't happen. That said and as we discussed in a previous thread I try to extend every courtesy to the provider and maintain a friendly relationship within the confines of the time we have together.

OFF

Unrelated Gratuitous Boobiage Photo

There are no written standards as to what constitutes a friendship.

We each deem our relationships as to what we want to think of them as.

If someone is happy thinking that their ATF is their friend, so be it.

Do people become disappointed with friends?  sure.

Do people make unwarranted assumptions about the status of a friendship?  sure.

I see no reason to browbeat ourselves about how we see ourselves viz a viz a particular provider friend versus any other person.

If you enjoy them and they seem to enjoy you, that's enough for me.

this time I feel your speaking from embitterment.


 Over my time in the hobby I have developed several "friendships" born of the provider hobbyist formula. Several evolved rather quickly, out of perhaps two or three business visits. Another although quite long in its gestation through the "business" dynamic turned into a VERY close and VERY real comradely.

I have been friends with more than one provider, and still currently am...AND, NO, IT WASN'T ABOUT THE MONEY (believe me, because I am not a big player in this arena!).

What is up with your need to have the world simultaneously bow down and say "You are right...you are great...forgive us our foolishness!"?  Why can't you accept that there CAN be people who do NOT ascribe to your standards and views?  What chip on your shoulder is making you feel that you have the right to say "IT DOES NOT WORK. EVER."

There is no such thing as never in this world, bucko.  You need to let go if this issue, because it is exposing yours.  Try to live and let live.

First, Mr. Self Destruct, whether you care to admit it, your provider friends have been bought. You paid them x- amount of dollars (whether its a $500 or $5,000)and now have yourself a friend. Congrats on this accomplishment! You both may believe you are friends, but the CORE of your friendship, was built on money. The reason you are together is because you paid her to be with you.

Second, I never have told anyone to hobby the Hardy way. You can agree with my points or disagree..THAT IS THE POINT OF A DISCUSSION BOARD

All I said is that you CAN NOT be friends with someone who you have paid money to in a hobbyist/provider setting. The whole core is built on MONEY. The only reason the lady is with you in this "supposed friendship setting" is that you paid her over time to get to this point. And if you think your friendship with her is based on anything else, you are delusional.

I've thought a lot about these same subjects over the years, and done more than my share of real life experimentation to support or disprove my theories.  My own views:

1.  It's definitely possible for a provider and a client to develop a personal relationship that has many of the attributes of a friendship.  But as long as payment is involved then, at most, this becomes what I would characterize as a close professional relationship.  There are counterparts -- therapists, personal trainers and even lawyers come to mind.  The intimacy and connection can be real -- providers often have favorite clients just like hobbyists have favorite providers.  

2.  Hardy says that #1 is not really a friendship because there would be no friendship without money.  I'm not sure he's wrong.  Indeed, he may actually be right about his "off the clock" statement; in my experience when a provider and client start spending personal time (movies, dinner) off the clock, that really reflects a judgment by the provider that she likes the guy enough as a steady client that she doesnt mind giving him personal time "for free."  (Plus when I've done it there were occasional gifts involved, so query how free is free).  An economist would call this arrangement some sort of blended discounted rate.  I think it's just a variation on what I referred to above as a close professional relationship.  Otherwise you're ignoring the fact that providers and hobbyists typically don't enter into this specific type of a relationship unless they genuinely like each other.

3.  BTW, I have seen and lived situations in which you take the money out and the friendship stays.  I have a close friendship with a provider that got closer after I stopped being a client.  It's going through a little rough patch now but I do believe the friendship is genuine and close.  

4.  Maybe Hardy will say #3 actually proves his point because it shows that real friendship begins when money stops.

5.  All this while interesting misses the point.  Hardy you are a very smart guy.  But your anger and bitterness towards women including providers is absolutely unmistakable.  It may be that the hobby is taking a toll on you because it feeds your tendency to objectify and villify women.  Maybe you'd be better off taking a long break.  Or keep hobbying, but see whom you like when you like and stop making it personal.  You might as well, because with your posts no self-respecting provider would want you as a friend, even a fake friend!

6.  What I really think is that your bark is worse than your bite, and you really want to be hugged.  Not by me of course, and I'm not offering.  (LOL).  

7.  Last but not least, there are no hard and fast rules.  There's a guy named Hyabby who will tell you that he was a client, a lover, a boyfriend and a friend all rolled into one with a woman named Miki, and that guy IMO is telling the truth.

It will come as a surprise to no one that you and I disagree over this question. But as I have said to you before, publicly and privately, I respect your opinions and your forthrightness in expressing them.

This thread promises to become "interesting" over the course of the day. I have nothing really to say right now - I may later.

BTW, you think you can collect on that dinner?  

Have you every had a fiend that was a stripper. I did and we were just fiends. Why not a provider ?

Hardy and Hyabby and other guys meet at a clandestine steakhouse and talk into the night about the hobby.  If we tape it, we could probably bring it to Broadway.

I have tremendous respect for both Moment and Hyabby. While we will never ever agree on how to hobby and more importantly the ultimate level of the relationship between client/provider, I appreciate how straight forward and candid they both are in their approach.

A roundtable discussion would be quite an eye opener. Count me in.

And No, Hyabby, I havent been able to figure out the connection of reviews....but I'll keep trying for that dinner

I too have much to say on the topic - as only a couple of you know.  But I wont.. at least not yet, and probably not as a contributer to this thread.

Hyabby, You wanna start a new club with me?  I think I know of one or two possible other members.  But we need to make the initiation worthwhile.

Right on MSD.

As you well know, I agree 100% with you.

Just because some people can't or won't allow a friendship to develope doesn't mean that it doesn't happen for others.

If you come across as nice and friendly, it will be returned.
If you come across as "business only", "it's all about the money" then that's what you get in return.

I am, and have been, friends with several ladies in this business, some who have been very active on this board.
One, I consider a best friend and we will be friends after she retires, whenever that may be.
I may only see her once a year or so, but we talk, email, communicate almost every week.

Don't tell me it can't work, because I know it does.

And that is, of course,

Just my opinion...
B

Firstly Hardy, I enjoy reading your posts, because I think that they're thought provoking.  I'm a believer that controversy is engaging.  So, please don't stop, regardless of how much shit people give you.

That said, I am currently enjoying a "friendship" with a provider.  I haven't spent THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars.  To be fair, it's about $1,500, which has paid for several hours of incredible fun.  Possibly, the additional benefits are a direct relation to the above mentioned $1,500, but if so, it's still a pretty good deal IMHO.  We've had several lunches (I pay about 70% of the time), she's cooked me dinner, and we've had great times and laughs.  She's also commented that future time together will be without compensation.  I guess that could be bullshit, but what's the hook?  We've had candid conversation about how we enjoy each other's company, but that this is what it is, and would not ever be anything else.

So, maybe we're genuine friends, or maybe I've fooled myself to believe that she's not a rent-a-friend.  In either event, I'm pretty content with the situation, and I've had people in my life that I thought were friends before.  It turns out that they weren't.  Plus, they never had sex with me, and they weren't nearly as attractive.

... that people use to categorize their relationships with others.  Don't get me wrong, categorization helps us all make sense of our worlds, but they stem FROM the relationship, and don't really dictate WHAT the relationship is.  We are over simplifying life and relationships if we assert that no provider/hobbyist could develop real feelings of friendship for the other.  And are their degrees of friendship?  Of course.

I thought about this for a while before posting.  I developed a friendship with a provider that was never consummated in the business sense.  I wondered if I could use that as an example to disprove Hardy's points.  At first, I thought that this friendship didn't qualify as it was built as a friendship independently, not out of the provider experience.  I knew she was a provider when I met her though.  Yet, I think that I CAN use that friendship.

The provider and I never had an appointment.  I knew that we could have and it would have been a lot of fun.  If we had ever had that appointment, I don't think that it would have changed the status of our friendship.  We would still be friends and we would still talk whenever we could.

In my early years, I befriended a provider that I had seen.  We became very close friends.  I still consider her a friend to this day.  We have we occasionally spent compensated time together, but over the years that amount of time is a very small percentage of the timewe have spent either talking or hanging out "as friends."  

The wonderful thing about the hobby is both parties' ability to compartmentalize.  The physical part is awesome, no doubt.  However, once you get past that, both participants are human subject to human needs.  

You can't honestly sit there and say that providers have no feelings at all whatsoever and have no desire to befriend any of their clients.  Maybe the meeting would not have happened without the money, but that doesn't mean that the money reamins the basis of the relationship.  

If you think that their are civvies out there that don't look for a guy with money to be with, you're absolutely naive.  You may end up spending MORE money on a civvie that you date for a while prior to consumating the relationship.  And yes, some of those civvies would drop you like a hot potato if your income stream were significantly reduced.  

All in all, is money a factor?  Absolutely.  However, it is a factor in a lot of situations beyond just our world.  Can providers and hobbyists be real friends?  I like to think so, and so would some of my friends!

one is a childhood friend from highschool and college, and the other was my neighbor and was and is a friend.  Recently I needed a lawyer - spent thousands of dollars with him... but I still consider him a very dear friend.  

and yea, I have gone to dinners, lunches, parties and sporting events with both.... the friend from childhood is currently serving in Iraq.... please pray for his safe return.  It would be much appreciated.

So, If I can be friends with lawyers, and spend thousands with them... why can I not be friends with a provider who over the course of a year spend thousands?

and here is the kicker... much as sometimes you are friends... friends do have falling outs.... and that is a test perhaps of friendship in the negative....  and that too is a possibility.

-- Modified on 9/19/2007 9:33:32 AM

Bizzaro, while I respect your position, I will argue that the two situations are not one in the same.

Yes, you are spending thousands of dollars using an attorney who was your childhood friend (something I would not do, but to each his own) but your friendship with this attorney was not predicated on money. You were friends first, had things in common, and then decided to utilize his services and paid him for his work. Being friends with a provider, when all you have done is paid her thousands of dollars to have sex with you just to get her to the point of wanting to do something in a "friendship capacity" is conceptually wrong.

All I am arguing is that the foundation of a supposed friendship with a provider is MONEY, plain and simple. Based on this foundation, I fail to give any true validitity to that friendship between client/provider.

It's not about which came first, the money or the friend.  The problem here is that since lawyers are not a human life form, you can't really be friends with one, and more than you could be with, say, a cactus.  Some would even say that the cactus is a bit less prickly.

I don't consider a provider a friend because we have fun together, whether in the hobby or not.  Real friendship goes deeper than that.  If you and the provider spend time talking about your real selves, your and her problems, aspirations, secrets, etc., that is a friendship.  

 Isn't that how we define real friendship in the civvie world?  That kind of friendship has nothing to do with money and everything to do with intimacy, in the broader sense of the word.  And by that definition, I have real friendships with some providers.

You crack me up...If persistence is a turn on for women, you should be getting laid a lot!

We have been in this neighborhood so many times now I'm thinking of buying a house and just moving in-lol. If stated as a GENERAL proposition, you'd probably get GENERAL agreement. But like most things stated in ABSOLUTE terms, there are almost always varying shades of gray.

For example, you said "The reason you are together is because you paid her to be with you."
Not necessarily- it may be the reason I MET her but that does not translate into the reason we may be together today. When I first got into business, I paid a woman $15,000 to do some design work for me. She did a fantastic job. Over the years we became friends and later I introduced her to her current husband. We are now neighbors. She is a terrific woman and our friendship is strong. I met her because I paid her. But that was 20 years ago. We became friends as a result and are good friends to this day.

I have a 9 year "friendship" with a provider I have not "paid" to be with in over 7 years. She is most certainly a friend. No other way to describe it. Actually, she is probably a more intimate friend than most...if you catch my drift. And there is NO quid pro quo involved on any level-  

As I have mentioned in other threads, many men here try to buy their way into a woman's heart( both provider's and civilians) and that is just sad. I find it much easier to just buy my way into their panties. It's a whole lot easier and a much less complicated transaction. I certainly don't go looking for love from a provider as many here seem to do. But friendship is a not uncommon outcome from people we interact with in all walks of life day in and day out even when we aren't seeking it out.  

... I developed a close relationship with a provider I met in the UK. We only had one paid date but were instantly in sync. We both knew it would not be forever -- the transatlantic gulf between us was a little too much and the relationship was not the love affair to end all love affairs -- but we had a great time while it lasted. I became part of her family, we spent holidays together, even lived together for a while. And it was terrific. We're no longer together but stay in touch. In addition, there are several providers I consider friends. Not close, but friends with whom I can spend a good time and not a small fortune, if any at all.

-- Modified on 9/19/2007 2:03:24 PM

Hardy is so damn negative.

I feel sorry for such a person. He's so bitter about ONE bad encounter.

Everytime I read a post of his, I shake my head, in disbelief.

I'm friends with two of my former clients...and everything is fine.

I saw a new provider six times over the summer. They were all 2-hour appointments, which allowd plenty of time for conversation.   I realize we met because I paid her to be with me. But during those appointments we also talked about various aspects of our personal lives, issues, stress, etc. I feel like we are developing a nice friendship. Will our friendship continue to grow? Only time will tell. I'm not looking to fall in love with a provider, but I do believe that a real friendship can develop.  We do have a business relationship, of course, but I think we can also be friends. Just because you pay her to be there, doesn't mean that it is all about business. I know that  a large part of the hobby is fantasy, but I think there is room for some reality, too.  There's no way I'd see someone 6 times, and continue to see her regularly(although less frequently now due to schedules) if I didn't like her. Yes, I"ve paid her a lot of money, but that doesn't mean that a genuine friendship is not possible.  

I believe that even with paid companionship, when two people are together, especially on a regular basis, it doesn't have to be just business. We are  people, and your personality and emotions can come out.  I stay within the boundaries of the business relationship, but I feel true friendships can develop  between clients and  providers.

Runningman

Is definitely NOT going to be my friend.  Hell NO!

I would much rather keep that relationship purely business.  She gets my business and I get to touch her business whenever I spend some money.  end of my philosophy.

Money soils everything... I would not want any money to be between any of my true friendships.

Korn, while I agree with your premise, no fun means something is missing in the chemistry department.  And would be boring.  

True friends are few and far between, but those that make it should be insightful AND fun to be with.

they are, after all, the second oldest profession.

I bet a fair number of lawyers are among TER's membership as well.

Who you going to call if LE busts your ass?  It won't be a businessman.

Lawyers do a lot of pro bono work for indigent people who need representation.  What other industry does that?

I have a construction firm and we hardly do any pro bono work.

I enjoy a good lawyer joke as much as the next guy, but let's keep it within reason.

Lawyers, you can't live with them, or without them.

(still not a lawyer)

You're coercing me into admitting that I have a couple attorney friends as well.  Interestingly enough, they're leftovers from my days owning a construction company.  They're about the only things left.  Maybe that's because we did unintended pro bono work, lol.

I know many people who have paid their lawyers ton's of money over years and developed close personal friendships with them.

Just because a relationship starts as a business relationship with a 1 way flow of cash, that doesn't mean a friendship is bought.

With sexworkers, it's not exactly the same thing, but similar.  There are a lot more pitfalls because of the nature of the relationship, not to mention the possible baggage that some bring to the career.

But it is possible.

It got so bad one time that the Catholic Charities threatened to sue.

I'd have to agree with you.  But the money isn't the reason.  To be honest, I've never really been friends with a woman or a girl at any time in my life.  Ever.  I seldom gave it much thought, but it's true.  Neither providers nor civilian women have ever become my friends.  I've been on friendly terms with most of them, but we've never been "friends."  It's not by choice.  I just don't have anything in common with the women I've met.  Once you take the sex out of the equation, what would we do together?  How would we spend our time together?  I just don't think there's any reasonable grounds for a friendship developing.  At least, there never has been before.

But that's just me.  Many people here claim to have become friends with providers, and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

The school district had to raise taxes when I stopped donating.

I spent an afternoon with a bisexual female, doing little more than people watching.  We had a ton in common.  There was that cute little Asian girl that we admired, then the tall blonde, then... you get the idea.

We never did have sex, although she did try to convince me that she gave great head.  She tried to prove it, and partly did, but we were in a crowded room, and it seemed kinda tacky to pretend that they weren't all watching.

I think it is possible to have a provider as a friend in the same way you can have a business associate who is also a friend. I mean you can be friends with your accountant or attourney even though you pay them hundreds or thousands of dollars. I have a friend who does my billing, and I pay him thousands of dollars every month, and I consider him a friend. I suppose if I fired him, that would definately put a strain on our friendship. I think if you consider a provider like any other business associate who provides a service for you, you can be friends. I think it is when you start confusing friendship with love that you get into trouble.

"Have you every had a fiend that was a stripper. I did and we were just fiends. Why not a provider ?"

Well, many strippers seem to be coke-fiends.  Does that count?

You say you have seen a provider 6 times, paid her a lot of money, and you think of her as a friend.

I agree you are friendly to each other, and may enjoy each other's company, but I find it difficult under these circumstances to classify your relationship as a true friendship. Would you be friends with her if no money were involved? Would she be willing to spend the day with you off the clock? Ask her that now after only 6 visits and see what the answer is... I suspect no. And, by the time she gives you one of those off the clock meetings, you will have spent so much money, that again its not true friendship.

I just do not see how true friendship can develop between providers and clients when one person carries a significant financial advantage over the other.

-- Modified on 9/20/2007 6:32:02 AM

Well, I read a few of the above post and I must say, That I always try to keep my clients as clients, But after a few visits, I must say some do becomes friends who call to chat or who IM me
daily just to say hello, So friendship means something different to everyone.
NOW: I do have 1 guy who after the first visit did become a very close personal friend who I enjoy his company and he enjoys mine, So it's no longer a business transaction, But a friendly arrangement between 2 people who have became closer, So everyone has an opinion here and mine is YES, you can be a special kind of friend  who
is UTR from your clients socially accepted friends.

PLEASE. CAN WE GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT. If you are referencing the one lady 10 years ago who did not want to have lunch unless I paid her more, I use that example to show what this hobby is all about: business. I make mention that I learned this fact right from the start..there are no emotions or feelings, only cash for sex. I did not care if we had lunch or not, I only brought it up in the context that this hobby is about business. plain and simple.

You are friends with former clients? Yeah, I am sure everything is great on your end..they PROB. PAID you thousands and thousands of dollars over the years. My point exactly.

All I am saying is that at the end of the day providers/clients do not make a match as friends. If you think its a normal friendship, than everyone is delusional.

"And, by the time she gives you one of those off the clock meetings, you will have spent so much money, that again its not true friendship. "

This is where your logic fails me.  What is the provider's motivation to "give" anyone a day off the clock?   That she'll lose his business?  Highly doubtful...is it worth a whole day off the clock on the off chance that he'll continue to spend the money on her?  The only reason I can think of to "give" anyone a day off the clock is that the provider truly wishes to spend time with the person without monetary regard...which to me, sounds like the beginnings of a beautiful friendship...

this is our JOB!

I would not usually cross paths with many of the gents I meet if it weren't for the hobby. You could say that about any people-oriented buiness or profession.

Whether real friendships can develop- yes of course! Just like a person you meet anywhere else, if you click and find a friendship mutually enjoyable, who's to judge? On the other hand, I think it is possible to have genuine affection for one another within the context of the hobby without trying to mold those feelings into the standard definition of a friendship or a relationship. Personally I have a crazy busy life, and can hardly keep up with my close friends of years and years and my immediate family. So, does combining a profession and a way to spend time with people make the affection one feels for some of them any less real? Just because a friendship doesn't meet the standard civilian definition or stereotype does not mean it's not legit. Whether enjoying one another during business hours, or developing a more intense off-the-clock relationship, people can genuinely enjoy one another's company as they see fit. It doesn't have to be defined by anyone, it just is.

XoXo
Marea


-- Modified on 9/20/2007 7:52:16 PM

Of course this hobby is all about business- thus the term prostitution- or pay 4 play- No one here I've read argues that point. On this there seems to be complete agreement.

You may not be bitter about the lunch date 10 years ago but you said "I learned this fact right from the start..there are no emotions or feelings, only cash for sex...."-- and

"providers/clients do not make a match as friends. If you think its a normal friendship, than everyone is delusional."

Like your supposition that no TER member or provider would engage in BBFS, your thinking is not supported by the facts. Staff posted in the BBFS thread showing just how wrong you are on the fact of BBFS going on amongst players and providers, your SHOCK not withstanding.

And many here, including me, have experienced friendships with all sorts of people with whom financial transactions were the genesis of our relationship, your disbelief notwithstanding.

I enjoy reading about your experiences and your perspective. I don't appreciate you denigrating mine or others simply because it is contrary to your thinking. Your lunch date experience of 10 years ago clearly made a powerful impression on you- But that may have also closed your mind to the possibility that some ladies out there may, in addition to your money, actually enjoy your company. Of course, there is the possibility that you are a complete asshole and no woman paid or not is interested in your friendship--- nah, that can't be it...lol

Mark Twain----  "We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it — and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove lid. She will never sit on a hot stove lid again — and that is well- but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore."



-- Modified on 9/20/2007 10:40:27 PM

I have many provider friends, most of them I've seen "on the clock" as our first meeting, some I've never seen professionally. One provider who I have never had a "session" with, are extremely good friends, we talk just about every day. We are by every definition of the word, "friends". Money does not nor has it ever had anything to do with our friendship.

Sorry If this flies in the face of Hardy's view of the world, but as others have said, "Hardy doesn't speak for all of us"

while i would say that most do not take quite the cold-hearted approach that you do to the hobby, i agree with you to a minor extent in that this is not the ideal venue to find meaningful friendships or deep emotional connections. it is important to me to always have some GENUINE warm feeling and concern for the men i see, while being careful not to cross that line into true emotional intimacy.

with that said, sometimes things just happen, beyond our control. recently (about 2 months ago) i started seeing this particular gentleman, and from the very start, even before meeting in person, we had an instant connection. not a romantic connection mind you, but that sort of connection you feel the very first time you speak to the person who ends up becoming your best friend. it made me nervous but at the same time it fed something within me, that normal human need for friendship, so i continued against my better judgement. He ended up visiting me twice in one week, for multi-hours each time (but still somewhat under 1,000, Hardy). the friendship we were developing continued...we spoke on the phone everyday, sometimes for 1 or 2 hours at a time. we began revealing our true selves to one another...he confessed to a 20-yr drug addiction, bipolar disorder, and other demons. i shared many of my past experiences and struggles with him.

then an unexpected tragedy occured in his life, triggering a relapse and his life began to spiral rapidly downhill. for obvious reasons, he could not afford to "see" me. well one day he calls me up, obviously very sick and depressed, sounding almost suicidal. i tricked him into giving me his address, and within a couple of hours was at his place. He was curled up in a dark room, hadn't bathed or eaten in days, was ashamed i was there. i cleaned up his place, bathed him, dressed him, got him to drink some juice and eat a little soup, called his employer to make sure he wouldn't lose his job, gave him lots of hugs and was just a shoulder to cry on. i was there til nightfall, about 5 hours.

that was a week ago. He's a little better now, still coming out of the hole. but i told him, he is no longer a "client." He is a friend, a true friend, and he can count on me to be there for him whenever he needs it. i would never accept another dime from him, to me that would make a mockery of the friendship. now that he's getting on his feet again, he keeps trying to pay me...i won't hear of it.

so no, you cannot buy a friendship. but i think that sometimes fate places certain people in our lives for a reason, and friendships can develop under the most inappropriate of circumstances.

I've only been a provider for 1 year.

How can you tell me that providers/clients do not make a match as friends?

That's YOUR opinion, not mine.

No emotion or feelings. If I felt like you did, I wouldn't be a provider.

I do treat what I do as a business...but I'm also human, with REAL emotions.

You say you aren't bitter...but I see differently.

I mean no disrespect and bear no ill will towards Hardy. Our views are different and I must respect him for that.

or they are performers looking for a break - or writers or whatever...  all!  are independant of drugs...

I also feel sorry for him.

I have had many clients who became friends (we ended the biz relationship & became friends only) over the years & even boyfriends but I don't do that anymore.

Hardy, the guys were the ones who weren't honest with me & had to see all my girlfriends behind my back, telling ME they only wanted to be with me. Okay I am still bitter about that. But not mad anymore.

Not all providers are bad. I did not date any of these guys for their money. I just connected with them & went with it.

I personally feel that it is too hard to make a personal relationship work this way for me. I do not regret the male friends I have made in my business at all.

But now I do like to keep things business oriented.

Sara

-- Modified on 9/23/2007 7:40:43 AM