TER General Board

Re: Hmmm...
London Rayne See my TER Reviews 2233 reads
posted
1 / 55

This was nothing like I had envisioned it, but kudos to Kristen and all the crew for actually doing a good job. I would have liked to see more women on the other side of the coin, but I guess that's the way it goes. I had originally wanted to take part, but was told there would be no way to protect my identity since the point was about coming out and being free with what you do for a living. My heart goes out to all the women who had the courage to tell their stories, as mine would be boring and too ordinary in comparison.

You can view the trailer here....

Please "like" them on every page possible to show your support. These women truly have shared the most intimate details of their lives.



-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:43:40 PM

MagicMedic 5 Reviews 468 reads
posted
3 / 55

looks well produced, but baby you would have brought a lot of beauty to it and it is whats needed  Not to menttion your charm and with your fiercely independent and her firery personality make London such an asset...London you are energetic, witty, and educated. I love to read the banter between you and soe unsuspecting fool. It's all day entertaingment...

I'm goig to watch it and turn in a report

macdaddy1944 51 Reviews 460 reads
posted
4 / 55

a wise man once said "Courage consists not in blindly overlooking danger , but in seeing it , and conquering it " these are truly brave women who chose the course they did and had the guts to live it to the fullest of their potential..

Posted By: London Rayne
This was nothing like I had envisioned it, but kudos to Kristen and all the crew for actually doing a good job. I would have liked to see more women on the other side of the coin, but I guess that's the way it goes. I had originally wanted to take part, but was told there would be no way to protect my identity since the point was about coming out and being free with what you do for a living. My heart goes out to all the women who had the courage to tell their stories, as mine would be boring and too ordinary in comparison.

You can view the trailer here....

Please "like" them on every page possible to show your support. These women truly have shared the most intimate details of their lives.



-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:43:40 PM

sympathyforthedevil 57 Reviews 557 reads
posted
5 / 55

They seem mostly past their prime. The movie may give an idea that there isn't much "quality" out there. Good for us hobbyist! The only one I've seen an ad for was Kristen (very hi class website) and I would guess she's late 40's?

ring1975 1 Reviews 426 reads
posted
6 / 55

of the HBO doc "Women of Hunter's Point" or some like title, more updated look though and less "NY-centric". I noticed the one
girl who was speaking about how much she loved her body had tears on her face. Who knows what the interviewers were
able to hear, amazing stuff.

-- Modified on 12/4/2012 11:06:19 PM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 578 reads
posted
7 / 55

different light as one of the replies suggested. This to me, seems to be reiterating that we are all a bunch of abused drug addicts, who have no other choice but to be hookers, because we are all so damaged. Who knows if this will help or hurt business for the ladies now that the masks are removed, but I doubt that was on the top of their list when they chose to participate. I can't wait to see the entire movie, but I hope the tone changes a bit. All the trailer shows is despair.

ring1975 1 Reviews 574 reads
posted
8 / 55

Despair sells, while women making money independently from the archaic establishment guidelines doesn't, in my opinion.

perfectstorm 19 Reviews 478 reads
posted
9 / 55

Hilary Holliday is quite famous here on TER (ask CPA about her:)) She has pages of reviews here and posts on the boards.

Yes, all the women in that film appear to be "mature," but some are still very active.

-- Modified on 12/4/2012 6:14:43 PM

BizzaroSuperdude 30 Reviews 465 reads
posted
10 / 55

I must say, i agree - most of the women in the life I know are very different from these.  One lady I know is very well accomplished.  but the reason for bringing her up is she is either in her late 40s or early 50s.  We were having a conversation once about marriage.  She told me that she doubted that she would ever marry again (same as me).  But in the same conversation she allowed that the next day she was going to see an older gent - who CANNOT hobby any longer.  Physically it is impossible for him.  Can you think of anything kinder?  I cannot.  She is an extraordinary young woman by any measure - and is always in my thoughts and prayers!!!  

But now here is the good part.  She is NOT an exception in the profession.  You cannot be successful in this profession if you do not like people, sex and yourself...  the druggies, street walkers and the like are not professionals... sadly, they wish they were.

STPhomer 176 Reviews 501 reads
posted
12 / 55

When I met her in DC a few years ago  we had an interesting conversation during the afterglow of a rather energetic romp.  She talked about the goal of producing a documentary about the biz...focusing on the ladies. I talked about my thoughts about writing a book about the most interesting people I have met in the biz. A few chapters would be on hobbyist but most of the book would feature practictioners of the ancient and honorable profession.

Bottom line. By God she did it !!  And it is well done.
Me.... on occasion during the afterglow of an enjoyable session with a hottie  I continue to talk about writing that damn book.

Kudos to Kristen and the ladies willing to tell their story.
She certainly has my respect.

StraightCountry 3 Reviews 409 reads
posted
13 / 55

I thought she was very easy on the eyes.   I Thought she looked much younger than her website claimed.  I have not been to her area since finding out about her.  I first noticed the film on her website as she mentions it on a page.

StarrRider See my TER Reviews 444 reads
posted
14 / 55

I had a referal from her a while back so I looked at her site and saw that she was making a movie...that's not the angle I was expecting at all based on the info provided on her site and her reviews...but I am intrigued to see it none the less!
I'm writing my own script actually from a much different aspect of the biz but it will be a feature, not a documentary and I can stay out of it with a literary pen ;) ...if I've retired by the time I produce it I might use my stage name just for fun ;)

meetkera See my TER Reviews 493 reads
posted
15 / 55

London, you already know how I feel about it.
I loved the preview - I just wish they didn't use the name "Courtesans" in their name.
There were no "Courtesans" in that video. Escorts, Yes. Hookers, Yes.

Posted By: London Rayne
different light as one of the replies suggested. This to me, seems to be reiterating that we are all a bunch of abused drug addicts, who have no other choice but to be hookers, because we are all so damaged. Who knows if this will help or hurt business for the ladies now that the masks are removed, but I doubt that was on the top of their list when they chose to participate. I can't wait to see the entire movie, but I hope the tone changes a bit. All the trailer shows is despair.

DaniellaDViante See my TER Reviews 450 reads
posted
16 / 55

While I really appreciate what they were trying to do, and applaud their courage and all that but...."courtesan"? Really? The preview itself has extensive B-roll of ladies seducing men right out on the street, walking a track, and leaning into car windows. This is not the behaviour of courtesans, not even of escorts. Its the trademark behaviour of streetwalkers and you don't have to even be part of the industry to know that the ladies who walk a track and the ladies who refer to themselves as courtesans are of two entirely different breeds. I feel they dragged not only their own names but the term itself through the mud by painting it in that light.

Besides, if this is the story of how they operate...why are they showing themselves in such a way? All that effort of having lovely websites and beautiful pictures...and they put themselves in a film displaying women acting out typical low end "hooker" routines? Regardless of the overall message of the film I feel like that was just a really bad move on their part that will not reflect well on them or on out industry.

Why not any footage at a computer? Lord knows we do a lot of that. Or, sitting in an upscale hotel room? Drinking a cocktail alone at a bar... presumably waiting for someone? These would not only have been more accurate of escorts/courtesans at the calibre these ladies claim to be in their ads and websites, but it would have also been much more flattering! I suppose what was posted above is correct...desperation, unfortunately, sells movies. But, does that sort of "press" attract quality clients for bookings? I doubt it.

Personally, I'm glad I did not participate in this. Not only because of what I'm seeing in the trailer, but also because the whole idea of "coming out" with our work. I feel that my work is a two-person confidential engagement, its not my place to come out to the world without being cognisant of the attention I'm bring not only myself but my clients as well...and, most of my clients would probably not appreciate the limelight.

crazyshit 415 reads
posted
17 / 55

I don't disagree with you here, but what is the difference between a courtesan, an escort and a hooker?

I do agree with the poster above you mentioned that the tone is mostly about despair, and that is something that I found one-dimensional about the trailer.  The exception was the one younger black girl who seemed to say, "Wow, this is the easiest money I have ever made."

crazyshit 460 reads
posted
18 / 55

But I do agree with you that many of them are probably in their late 30s or 40s.  And the video kinda puts some of the scores you see on their TER reviews in perspective.  

I do agree that the trailer is largely one-dimensional inasmuch as it is largely based on despair as opposed to something not as dark in theme and mood.

I applaud the women for having the courage to show their faces and identities, but as a client who values discretion, it certainly makes me think twice about booking with one or any of the women in the movie.  I recently was going to consider booking with one of the providers in the movie, but decided against it.

If an escort is open enough to share these details of her life with the camera, I just am not comfortable seeing her.

crazyshit 449 reads
posted
19 / 55

Kera mentioned that this wasn't really so much about "courtesans," but rather "escorts" and "hookers."  I think I get what she is saying now, based on your post here.

I agree with you that the portrayal I have seen in the trailer seems to show something completely different than the escorts that I have seen here on TER.  You're right...something more accurate might be waking up in an upscale house, condo or apartment, having coffee, checking the computer for emails, and doing some marketing via ads on Eros or TER.

I suspect that a day in the life of a high-end escort might not be much different, except that "going to work" entails a lot of spending time on the phones with clients, answering emails, talking with an assistant who does the screening, and maybe the actual behind-the-scenes screening.  The rest of the day is probably like the rest of us--running errands, meeting friends, going to kids' events, etc.

And, honestly, THAT is a movie I would like to see.  I have dated several high-end providers over the years, and what I wrote above is much more indicative of their lives as opposed to what seems to have been described in "American Courtesans."

And I agree with you about the discretion thing, as well.

Very well-worded.

CubbieFan2 21 Reviews 484 reads
posted
20 / 55

Hi,

You're slipping!! this topic along w/ the other topic you posted about what a woman wants in a session from a guy already has been posted a couple of times  I can't wait until you post a d*ck size thread!!!  Get w/ the program girl!! :oD BTW, Obama was re-elected in November!!  BWAAAAH!! J/K!! Are you laughing?? If not I'll take a T.O.!! Anyway, as others have stated the women in the documentary,  are not  like the courtesans I've met in this profession!! This documentary will give the people who are against this profession more ammunition in that  the women are drugged out ,abused  & forced to sell their bodies!! The ladies I've met in the profession are upstanding, good head on the shoulder's professional women!!

I felt so sorry for the woman who was in the business @ the age of thirteen!! That is just so wrong!! L.E. should focus their energy on that dirty aspect of the business instead of rounding up two adult people who both consent to a romp behind close doors where money is involved!!

I will nowtake my T.O.

I'd rather watch "The Session's" starring Helen Hunt which is based on a real life story about a guy in an Iron Lung who wishes to lose  his virginity to a surrogate sex partner!! I can attest to the story minus the Iron lung & believing in god!! :o)

Posted By: London Rayne
This was nothing like I had envisioned it, but kudos to Kristen and all the crew for actually doing a good job. I would have liked to see more women on the other side of the coin, but I guess that's the way it goes. I had originally wanted to take part, but was told there would be no way to protect my identity since the point was about coming out and being free with what you do for a living. My heart goes out to all the women who had the courage to tell their stories, as mine would be boring and too ordinary in comparison.

You can view the trailer here....

Please "like" them on every page possible to show your support. These women truly have shared the most intimate details of their lives.



-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:43:40 PM
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:56:08 PM

meetkera See my TER Reviews 439 reads
posted
21 / 55

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so I won't go into details. I will leave it at that. Daniella pretty much summed it up.

saturnsky 537 reads
posted
22 / 55

Showing the bright side of something that, for the most part, is vilified by society, is never going to happen.  It would make it more acceptable and less ugly and the masses don't want to hear about women making a good living safely and without drugs. There is possibly as many drug users on Wall Street as there are in this profession but you rarely hear about the coke or heroin using broker.

Could you imagine if someone did a documentary on the bar scene and what goes on there at 2 am in the morning...all the unprotected sex being done under the influence of something..yeah that would make great and disturbing TV but misrepresenting the real hooker and john story is always better viewing. People can sit safely in their living rooms and point fingers.

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 5:17:17 AM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 441 reads
posted
23 / 55

I will just say never in a million years would I have expected some of the things I heard from certain women, and others I pretty much knew what they would say lol. I also was surprised at how many of them looked so different than the photos, but that's not so shocking when we hear that all the time. All in all, I am glad Kristen accomplished a goal she set out to do, and is free in some small way.

She can now embrace this life as she has talked about doing, and good for her. I would just like to add that this is not a business one has to be "stuck in" as the tone suggests. If you really hate what you do, leave. If you need help doing that, there are ways. I am always baffled that abused women run to yet another cycle of abuse, even though they think it is a place of empowerment. Not really...you're trading one cycle for another and many guys are still degrading you.

I think the reason they showed clips of the track and the streets was to show where some women 'started' at, but not how they ended up. Many of these women have since made a reputation and an image along with rate packages, that are suitable for them to live a great life and not work around the clock. If you started on the streets and can now command 500 an hour, I would say you worked this business vs. letting it work you...bravo.

I just don't like the "It's too late" tone I see in many of these films where people suggest once a hooker, always a hooker. That is not true for so many of the women I know, and for myself. Many of us know good and well as we age, it will get harder and harder to make money in this business, and don't plan on being here until then. Yes, I agree...sad stories and despair sell, but for once I would like to hear from women who used this business for say 2-6 years, went to school, and walked away never looking back because they were not addicted to the lifestyle.

Laura De Leon See my TER Reviews 456 reads
posted
24 / 55

And hope they make a lot of profit out of it!!
Because after the film is completely out, their business most likely will drop to bellow  floor. The so desired discretion and anonymity won't longer exist for their clients.
Hopefully it won't be for them like walking around with the "A scarlet letter"..... for much open minded that we claim to be, I'm not sure this society is ready mentally nor morally to accept our "unspoken subculture" .

I was offered to be part of a similar project by Showtime and I reject it because of the same reasons... I don't want to be pointed at for the wrong reasons.  

From the bottom of my hear and all of myself, I wish them all the best to outcome in this venture!! And trust me, part of me wish being wrong about my previous opinion.

LDL

meetkera See my TER Reviews 452 reads
posted
25 / 55

I can see how a lot of employers will see that and say "There is no way I'm hiring that woman". I mean - c'mon. It's not that once a hooker, always a hooker but once you've OUTED yourself as a hooker, well..... you know the rest. It really all depends on the direction these women want to go with their lives.  Do I love what I do as an independent companion? Most definitely.  Do I want to be remembered as a hooker at my funeral? Hell no. There is a difference.

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 9:25:51 AM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 503 reads
posted
26 / 55

I guess they could not find many takers, because women who are truly successful outside of here, can't exactly appear on camera. They would be kicked out of school and fired from most any job unless they had their own business that was big on the demand side. I also agree about the discretion thing, but most of these girls already showed their faces and had explicit video content out there, so I don't think they were all too worried about that.

I doubt this film is going to attract LE attention where the girls are being targeted, but you never know. I mean that would have happened before now with all the sex and bj videos that are put out right on escort websites.

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 452 reads
posted
27 / 55

I am only going by the trailer, and it spoke loud and clear from some of the women's lips that they felt this was ALL they had, it saved their life somehow, and they were finally done running and now embracing it. I am not saying I agree or would ever want that for my own life, but for those who truly plan on being sex workers forever...well, for some it is better than where they were before I guess.

Many women are actually proud of being hookers and think it is easy work...look at Skylar. I am like you in that I can enjoy what I do in the moment, but it is not something I could ever broadcast or be proud of because I see no honor in it. It's just a job. Granted, I have met wonderful people like you along the way and some of the men are all out God Sent, but I am sure those same people will pat me on my ass on my way out, and be glad I moved on to other things when that day comes. Those who know me, know this is not my lot in life.

Keep in mind, like I said, many of them ALREADY showed their faces and had videos on the net, so I doubt the film is going to matter. Now, for Kristen who did NOT show her face, well I don't know but she has quite a fan club that is going to continue to see her, and support her financially. She is not some dumb hooker, I will say that much. For those who argue about discretion...do you show your face on the net? If you do, you really can't talk about protecting your clients all that much, because you too in some small way are in fact revealing what you look like, and what you do. It just did not come out of your mouth.




-- Modified on 12/5/2012 9:41:49 AM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 432 reads
posted
28 / 55

I will say 2 of them looked 10-15 years older than what I had imagined based on listed age and reviews, but that's neither here nor there. Some of these women have had a hard life, and that takes its toll especially on a face.

ring1975 1 Reviews 435 reads
posted
29 / 55

This issue is actually a twofer- Women 1) making money and 2) making money without the supervision of an 'approved' segment of the financial community.
And there aren't many things more compellingly sad than the behavior of 'normal' people as a bar closes.

Posted By: saturnsky
Showing the bright side of something that, for the most part, is vilified by society, is never going to happen.  It would make it more acceptable and less ugly and the masses don't want to hear about women making a good living safely and without drugs. There is possibly as many drug users on Wall Street as there are in this profession but you rarely hear about the coke or heroin using broker.

Could you imagine if someone did a documentary on the bar scene and what goes on there at 2 am in the morning...all the unprotected sex being done under the influence of something..yeah that would make great and disturbing TV but misrepresenting the real hooker and john story is always better viewing. People can sit safely in their living rooms and point fingers.

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 5:17:17 AM

keystonekid 114 Reviews 386 reads
posted
30 / 55

Erin Marxxx, known as Elle at the time, back in October 2005.  At that time she was living in Tampa and was in her early 20's, which would make her about 30 now.  At the time, she had not gotten into the porn business.  I saw her repeatedly until she moved to Atlanta.  One hot woman for a reasonable price.

If I lived in Atlanta, I would still she her as each date with her was a different wonderful experience.  Some ladies have a script that they follow which, after a few dates with them, gets stale.
 

Kelly_James See my TER Reviews 420 reads
posted
31 / 55

I *outed* myself a long time ago lol, but certainly not to that extent.  I don't think there's anything particularly honorable about our job, but I don't think there's anything dishonorable about it either.  I don't have an issue speaking publicly as an activist...but I'll be damned if I'm ever on fkin TV crying and telling my entire life story.  And that would apply even if I was in a different profession.  Everyone has a story, not just hookers, and there are certain things which I feel are personal.

While I also commend them for their courage, I'm not sure all the women who participated in AC are fully aware of the social repercussions that this will have.  To out oneself as a member of an extremely marginalized portion of society is effective self marginalization.  I think the intent of the film is to portray sex workers as human beings, because unfortunately in the eyes of most of the world we simply are not...but I too would prefer to see it framed in a way that doesn't reinforce the already prevalent stereotypes.

Duplicitouslust 24 Reviews 375 reads
posted
32 / 55

Dear Ms. James:
I am wondering if you are thinking about the consequences and ramifications that this documentary will have on these women as they matriculate through life? I believe that you are having certain conundrums about the choices that these women are making and at what point will there actions become more harrowing as they go on in life?  Ms. James would you say that life after making this documentary for them will be almost analogous to Tommie Smith and John Carlos raising their fist in Mexico City? Also will they also have just as hard a time trying to assimilate into the mainstream society as well? I also wanted to ask you would you be thinking about a scene in Boogie Nights when  Don Cheadle's character was denied a loan because he was identified as a porn star? Would these be the cases and points that you would be apprehensive about for these women as time goes on?

CubbieFan2 21 Reviews 347 reads
posted
33 / 55

Hi London

... would've been great!! It's too bad there's such a stigma on this profession that we cannot hear from the success stories!!

Posted By: London Rayne
I will just say never in a million years would I have expected some of the things I heard from certain women, and others I pretty much knew what they would say lol. I also was surprised at how many of them looked so different than the photos, but that's not so shocking when we hear that all the time. All in all, I am glad Kristen accomplished a goal she set out to do, and is free in some small way.

She can now embrace this life as she has talked about doing, and good for her. I would just like to add that this is not a business one has to be "stuck in" as the tone suggests. If you really hate what you do, leave. If you need help doing that, there are ways. I am always baffled that abused women run to yet another cycle of abuse, even though they think it is a place of empowerment. Not really...you're trading one cycle for another and many guys are still degrading you.

I think the reason they showed clips of the track and the streets was to show where some women 'started' at, but not how they ended up. Many of these women have since made a reputation and an image along with rate packages, that are suitable for them to live a great life and not work around the clock. If you started on the streets and can now command 500 an hour, I would say you worked this business vs. letting it work you...bravo.

I just don't like the "It's too late" tone I see in many of these films where people suggest once a hooker, always a hooker. That is not true for so many of the women I know, and for myself. Many of us know good and well as we age, it will get harder and harder to make money in this business, and don't plan on being here until then. Yes, I agree...sad stories and despair sell, but for once I would like to hear from women who used this business for say 2-6 years, went to school, and walked away never looking back because they were not addicted to the lifestyle.

AllyMoore See my TER Reviews 463 reads
posted
34 / 55

The word "courtesan" implies artful, purposeful intent- not "I am a sex worker because I'm a broken person"...so the trailer leaves something to be desired for me...

Like a sense that a provider can enter the business because she legit loves sex, love men, loves money and a taste of the fast life all the while being a truly well balanced person leading an otherwise normative life.

One girl is saying she loves selling her body with tears streaming down her face, another is telling a horror story about her childhood, someone is saying their partner calls him her pimp when they're in arguments, another is actually describing her pimp.

I don't get it.  Based only on the trailer it is not at all representative of my experience, it reinforces the negative notion that many have of escorts - that we're all a mixed bag of assorted damage.

I'd like to see a documentary trailer portraying someone sexually liberated, open-minded, self-aware, emotionally balanced, in full control of her business plan & executing it, showing the hundreds of hours we spend behind our computer screens marketing, getting dressed and prepared for lengthy appointments or adventure travel, planning tours, spending time with our friends and family, cleaning and shopping for our homes in regular neighborhoods, participating in our communities, engaging in activities to learn and socialize, educating ourselves, planning for our futures etc.  Because that's the life that I and the women I socialize with within the business live.  You wouldn't notice us at the grocery story (or maybe you would) but you'd damn sure notice us looking healthy, happy and in complete control walking through a hotel lounge to meet a new client.  I still find this world terribly glamorous after six years within it- my experience has been positively indescribable..I can only imagine what its like for girls who operate at a higher level than I do.  But I still live the incredibly normal life of an average 28 year old and had an incredibly normal upbringing.  If someone interviewed me about my time in the business there is nothing I'd shed a tear over and I wish the stories of ladies who could say the same would be told during provider forays into mass media.  

Also I don't understand why any active provider would show herself in a documentary setting exposing all flaws, physically and emotionally.
How can someone expect a client to revel in her femininity, sensuality, sexuality and treat her with respect as his equal in the transaction when she basically gets on a film and describes herself as essentially being a victim of circumstance?  Who wants to feel like they're exploiting a woman who was forced into the business by emotional problems or distress or that they're seeing someone who routinely suffers?

Again, my thoughts are based only on the trailer.
I respect the providers who participated professionally.   They are courageous and obviously brilliant business women by their reviews and the impressions they've left upon their guests who have commented on time with them publicly.
I met one participant this past year and she was the most beautiful, fun free spirit.  I've communicated with others.  I'd hate to think this would negatively impact any of them.
But seriously, watching the trailer leaves me with a real sense of disappointment and dread that yet again, we're being portrayed in this way and by our own peers no less.

**I hope the trailer is just a bit sensational and the actual film is a balanced portrayal of us.**

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 4:12:30 PM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 373 reads
posted
35 / 55

get ratings. Think about it...if you only show the good side of prostitution, women are going to line up thinking it's easy money as one girl put it.  They can't possibly show women who don't have substance abuse problems, are actually very well educated with the degrees to back it up, and came from normal, middle class families where they had good relationships with their parents. That's boring lol. No, we need to hear about underage girls turning tricks in their parent's basement to be shocked. I agree with Ally....who wants to see a woman who is portrayed as being damaged in order to be here.

This is not EASY money, unless you are attention starved and need married men to reaffirm your ego. There is nothing EASY about this business, except for the guys.  Fast money...yes, but I would never call it easy money. I think for some this is the only excitement life has ever brought them, and for many the men here treat them better than men in real life ever did...that is the sad part.

Until many became escorts they never felt worth anything, never left their home town, much less traveled outside the U.S. So in that aspect, I can see it being a fun way to do that, but hard work can also allow you to do that...the legal way. Many of us are lazy, and I can't deny that. Who wants to have to get up at 5 a.m. to work all damn day sitting behind a desk? I certainly don't, but in 2 years I won't have any other choice. We wonder why the media runs with this shit...you have girls IN the business telling people how fked up they were, and what led them here.

If I ever get abused, my ass is running to Jesus...fk y'all!

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 4:14:15 PM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 400 reads
posted
36 / 55

There are going to be those that rip this thing apart and the women with it, but everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame a different way I guess. You have to understand that all this book writing, videos, movies, etc. is just a way for some to feel like they are stars...that line was even used by one of the girls in the trailer. If you plan on being here forever, why not make the absolute most out of it.

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 4:01:24 PM

AllyMoore See my TER Reviews 496 reads
posted
37 / 55

I posted without even reading the other thoughts...but this is exactly how I feel too!

I'm sad I'm making a judgement call on other providers I respect but this just feels exploitative and not representative at all of what a high end escort should like to share in the media.

Kelly_James See my TER Reviews 382 reads
posted
38 / 55

Well...at least two of them - Gina and Norma Jean - know damn well what they're doing and do it anyway lol.  I don't know any of the others, and it's certainly none of my business to dictate what anyone should or shouldn't do.  All I'm saying is that mainstream society is NOT accepting.

Posted By: Duplicitouslust
Dear Ms. James:
I am wondering if you are thinking about the consequences and ramifications that this documentary will have on these women as they matriculate through life? I believe that you are having certain conundrums about the choices that these women are making and at what point will there actions become more harrowing as they go on in life?  Ms. James would you say that life after making this documentary for them will be almost analogous to Tommie Smith and John Carlos raising their fist in Mexico City? Also will they also have just as hard a time trying to assimilate into the mainstream society as well? I also wanted to ask you would you be thinking about a scene in Boogie Nights when  Don Cheadle's character was denied a loan because he was identified as a porn star? Would these be the cases and points that you would be apprehensive about for these women as time goes on?

WondersOfTheWrld 440 reads
posted
39 / 55

e different, but that's me.
I've met many women in this world, some with flawless, "normal" lives and circumstances, others with a ton of issues. I don't take offense when the latter shares their experience with the world, b/c that's their experience, even if it's not mine. Who am I to say the desperate and despair shouldn't be shared, but only the positive is acceptable? I won't say that b/c every experience is equally valued in my book.
Yes, now if you did a documentary on my experience as an escort, with the exception of one experience, it has been perfect. There's no boyfriend/pimp, no financial pressures...I mean I needed job, but I'm a college grad so I could've gotten a job, but I wanted to escort. The sex industry always appealed to me. And that's me, someone not making a documentary, they are and that's their experience.
As far as their professional biz goes, I don't concern myself with another lady's biz, so I won't go there.

crazyshit 394 reads
posted
40 / 55


END OF MESSAGE

jinnimixxx See my TER Reviews 450 reads
posted
41 / 55

Can I get an amen lol

Girl exxxactly. I'm in this * because I'm a natural born freak so to speak. There was a time I just gave it away.

Now that I'm older (& know better) ...

I charge for my time.

I have met some wonderful people along the way. I can honestly say, I am happy to be here :)

I know it's better to "act" like I have a man, but in my case, I have surpassed that stage. I can control m space, my space & my clientele. In other words, I am in control of myself.

I choose my clients by a mutual level of respect and desire to have fun.  If one doesn't come correct it's no skin off my nose, I either delete or fail to respond.

I like persistence to a point & then I gotta move on. Persistence pays off at times, but there's a fine line between persistent & stalker IMO

&  that's not to say I haven't suffered the trials of communication. I don't always get vm, text or email is best, but even those fail to connect me to some great companions.

I'm in this to make money, yes. But not all money is good Money.

I'd rather be broke & eating ketchup n rice than to take some of the bs I get advertising as an escort.

So I'd like to see that too. But I won't be on film either. So who will represent?

"& we'ree never gonna survive...unless (we get a little crazzzy)"
Seal (in case you didn't know)

xxx
Jinni

Took out a word*


-- Modified on 12/5/2012 9:44:11 PM

AllyMoore See my TER Reviews 396 reads
posted
42 / 55

Providers are human beings, all aspects and experiences of any individual who chooses to be interviewed for a documentary, news magazine story, article or book are worth listening to and learning from if someone has an interest in becoming educated about sex work.

But this is a film, film is art and art doesn't get to go uncontested or unquestioned.

I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told.
I'm just asking why these are the only stories that are told.


My questions after viewing the trailer lie with the juxtaposition of the liberal use of the word "courtesan" with the types of stories featured and the fact that providers who describe their experiences in the media rarely depict themselves as having otherwise balanced, wholesome lives (which we know happen to really exist).

The lack of a balance in these depictions of us lends itself to the notion that prostitution is "never a victimless crime" further marginalizing and isolating us.  

But I just got back in, clicked around and found a review of the film.
In it the writer describes flaws but then says
"...All that said – I am still excited as hell that American Courtesans exists..."

...And I guess that sounds about right.  Maybe the balance in depictions of us will ultimately come from pioneers like these ladies who step into the light with whatever truth they have to share and others with different experiences that could bridge the disconnect between the idea that we're all broken deviants and the reality of us as business people, wives, daughters and women will follow.

bigav 13 Reviews 418 reads
posted
43 / 55

Wow... That trailer makes me want to completely give all of this up. Seeing these women who are "courtesans" in their crying, fucked up storied lives is incredibly disheartening. Maybe I am lucky, or maybe I am just ignorant but from the women I've had the opportunity to spend time with... none fit the image that is portrayed within the trailer.

Again, I am sure life isn't at all glamorous and easy for you ladies, but based on the trailer all I can say is that the filmmaker and producers have all but damned and solidified the viewpoint of American society and law enforcement that prostitution has no value to anyone.

Good luck to all the ladies who participated in the making of this film, but from my viewpoint I am not sure what they hoped to achieve.

NoraDiAngelo See my TER Reviews 482 reads
posted
44 / 55

As others have said, calling this documentary “American Courtesans”, leads the viewer to believe that the women in the film are the “crème of the crop” of this business. I watched the trailer with great anticipation, expecting to see independent, intelligent, strong, successful and classy courtesans whose stories could inspire me and who could teach me a thing or two... The women in this documentary seemed to be the opposite of what I expected. The way they talked about their past (and perhaps current reality) riddled with rape, incest, child abuse, substance abuse, getting arrested, being pimped out, feeling tainted... It left me absolutely mortified, and that’s just the trailer... But this movie shows the life and experiences of those 11 women, and fortunately for most of us, our reality is different, and we should be grateful for that.

Let’s think about it for a minute. What currently active, successful, higher end escorts would willingly go on camera to be part of a documentary like that? Those of us who have a life outside of this, a career, family, plans, things of value to protect, could never show our face on camera, and even if we did, I doubt that our stories would be what mainstream America wanted to hear. The idea of a happy, well-adjusted young woman making six figures as an escort would not sit well with someone who has worked all his life to make half or a quarter of that. Describing jetsetting adventures the general public rarely gets to participate in would probably be seen as "glamorizing" the industry...Openly claiming that one enjoys a sexual openness and freedom others only dream of would be seen more negatively than anything... Stating that one refuses to use drugs and is still able to function as an escort, nonetheless do it willingly and without shame would probably not even seem believable to the general public (even some on this very board question it...) None of those things would generate goodwill toward the industry anyway.

Making the public feel that all of us are dealing with issues originating from past emotional abuse, horrible current work conditions, a lack of self-esteem, and are hopelessly in need of some kind of an intervention serves most mainstream political agenda better than showing those of us who thrive on our own, without the “assistance” of pimps, drugs or worse. Still, I wouldn’t expect a female escort to make a film with that tone.

I have seen a number of documentaries about escorts, courtesans, strippers and the like, and I enjoyed most of them. Just recently National Geographic showed a documentary on the subject, and even that one left me feeling better about the industry… It’s not that I don’t have compassion for the women in “American Courtesans” or that a story shouldn’t be heard if it’s depressing and gloomy, but I resent the fact that there was not one real courtesan featured in it.

A better documentary I really enjoyed was CNBC’s “Dirty Money: The Business of High-End Prostitution.”  (linked below). It features ladies who are currently active, intelligent, sophisticated, work on the high end of the business and use their brains just as much as their bodies, yes, real “courtesans” – along with others on different levels too. That documentary doesn’t glorify the business either, it shows the downsides too, but it doesn’t focus on making us look worse… Definitely more uplifting in tone than “American Courtesans.”

meetkera See my TER Reviews 470 reads
posted
45 / 55

OOoh Nora! I thoroughly enjoyed CNBC’s “Dirty Money: The Business of High-End Prostitution.”
It was a wonderful documentary and I could totally relate to the women in the film.

crazyshit 569 reads
posted
46 / 55

What you are depicting is probably a lot closer to reality for most of the high-end escorts on this board.

They really need to make that differentiation.

WondersOfTheWrld 402 reads
posted
47 / 55

Posted By: Ally Moore
Providers are human beings, all aspects and experiences of any individual who chooses to be interviewed for a documentary, news magazine story, article or book are worth listening to and learning from if someone has an interest in becoming educated about sex work.

But this is a film, film is art and art doesn't get to go uncontested or unquestioned.

I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told.
I'm just asking why these are the only stories that are told.


My questions after viewing the trailer lie with the juxtaposition of the liberal use of the word "courtesan" with the types of stories featured and the fact that providers who describe their experiences in the media rarely depict themselves as having otherwise balanced, wholesome lives (which we know happen to really exist).

The lack of a balance in these depictions of us lends itself to the notion that prostitution is "never a victimless crime" further marginalizing and isolating us.  

But I just got back in, clicked around and found a review of the film.
In it the writer describes flaws but then says
"...All that said – I am still excited as hell that American Courtesans exists..."

...And I guess that sounds about right.  Maybe the balance in depictions of us will ultimately come from pioneers like these ladies who step into the light with whatever truth they have to share and others with different experiences that could bridge the disconnect between the idea that we're all broken deviants and the reality of us as business people, wives, daughters and women will follow.

WondersOfTheWrld 457 reads
posted
48 / 55

that it would be nice to have a balance of stories, this would better reflect the diverse realities of women in this industry.

Kelly_James See my TER Reviews 442 reads
posted
50 / 55

I'm interested to see what the rest of it is like.

CaseySterling See my TER Reviews 405 reads
posted
51 / 55

I'm not sure this is an accurate representation. Seems like they are talking to a lot of "Street girls" which are going to have wildly different experiences than an escort or even an upscale escort. That is not what I would consider a "courtesan". Also seems like this women have a lot of past drama and strife. I was not sexually abused, hit, or raped and I don't have daddy issues...seems like these chicks have serious emotional trauma.

Not saying it wouldn't be worth watching, just saying that it's more for the street girl type providers

wetweasel2010 4 Reviews 305 reads
posted
52 / 55

Hi Ally,

You make some very valid points. I learned of the documentary because of one of the people involved is actually from my hometown, and I'm a video designer, so that also piqued my interest.

What is of more import, in my opinion, is how the documentary will be received. People in this country need to move on past the image of paying for sex. I am not going to use the "P" word: it's just another label created to control an activity that the establishment has no business controlling.

And in that image lies the problem: perhaps you should consider your sietz-im-liebe (where you are in life.) Perhaps some of the people who participated in the documentary knew indeed that the Director or producer needed a hook and embellished it for the trailer. Entertainment business is simply that: a business. Even non-profits have to pay the bills.

I see this project as a positive: Americans as a whole: we're a dirty bunch. But we partake in that sentiment behind closed doors. Maybe this documentary will start a dialogue, a change forward that will benefit and help people: what is there in that not to like?

But, you can't sell something to the public without a hook. Listen, men will always watch a documentary of this nature given the opportunity. Women? No. The trailer is promotional material. I am hoping that the documentary once released will usher forth the fact that we need change in American society and protect women and men equally from being criminalized for something that has been going on for a very long time.

Let's hold judgement until then, shall we?

-- Modified on 12/5/2012 4:12:30 PM

wetweasel2010 4 Reviews 330 reads
posted
53 / 55

Kelly,

There is nothing dishonorable about your job. It is your life, your mind, your body. I do agree with you that the producers of this documentary wanted to open a conversation in this country that sadly has been closed. I believe the women who participated in this documentary are very courageous. It was their choice to participate: and that in of itself is powerful.

Hillary Holliday hails from my hometown. I have never met her, but I really respect her.

I believe this is a step in the right direction in our society.

Cheerios.

Posted By: Kelly_James
I *outed* myself a long time ago lol, but certainly not to that extent.  I don't think there's anything particularly honorable about our job, but I don't think there's anything dishonorable about it either.  I don't have an issue speaking publicly as an activist...but I'll be damned if I'm ever on fkin TV crying and telling my entire life story.  And that would apply even if I was in a different profession.  Everyone has a story, not just hookers, and there are certain things which I feel are personal.

While I also commend them for their courage, I'm not sure all the women who participated in AC are fully aware of the social repercussions that this will have.  To out oneself as a member of an extremely marginalized portion of society is effective self marginalization.  I think the intent of the film is to portray sex workers as human beings, because unfortunately in the eyes of most of the world we simply are not...but I too would prefer to see it framed in a way that doesn't reinforce the already prevalent stereotypes.

wetweasel2010 4 Reviews 279 reads
posted
54 / 55

Ally,

What you wrote is very well thought out and spot on.

I believe we agree in that the documentary is welcomed as sooner or later this country has to address this issue.

As someone who is versed in the film/entertainment side of things, I can tell you that they needed that hook: I know it sounds like a crude term but it's in almost every media product you consume every day. Every story needs a hook. From the trailer it seems like the production elements are top notch and that they put forth a compelling set of stories.

Remember that we are also not the targeted audience. It's the people that do not think of what we do as an acceptable practice; however, it's not something that mobilizes groups like progressive liberals or the conservatives. This is completely under the radar until some small midwest TV station reports on a sting: then most people forget about it the next day. When we have a national-level conversation about sex, and what exactly we discuss on this website every day, that will be a good thing. I hope I don't get banned for this, but I hope that some day TER will not be needed. Currently, I can order alcohol, cigarettes and even medical marijuana delivered to my door. But if I contact a provider there is the very real prospect of getting arrested. There is something wrong with that.

Let's assess the film on artistic matters, very well. But let us also consider the intentions of the creators, interviewees and other involved staff. True, I agree that they went for the "sensationalist" factor, but sadly is because they had to. Be a little kinder at least until the documentary comes out.

Or, why don't you produce your own documentary? I'm not being mean, you could actually do it. You could tell the story of providers who have had a positive experience and came from healthy households. The world needs balance. You could share that.

Peace.

Posted By: Ally Moore
Providers are human beings, all aspects and experiences of any individual who chooses to be interviewed for a documentary, news magazine story, article or book are worth listening to and learning from if someone has an interest in becoming educated about sex work.

But this is a film, film is art and art doesn't get to go uncontested or unquestioned.

I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told.
I'm just asking why these are the only stories that are told.


My questions after viewing the trailer lie with the juxtaposition of the liberal use of the word "courtesan" with the types of stories featured and the fact that providers who describe their experiences in the media rarely depict themselves as having otherwise balanced, wholesome lives (which we know happen to really exist).

The lack of a balance in these depictions of us lends itself to the notion that prostitution is "never a victimless crime" further marginalizing and isolating us.  

But I just got back in, clicked around and found a review of the film.
In it the writer describes flaws but then says
"...All that said – I am still excited as hell that American Courtesans exists..."

...And I guess that sounds about right.  Maybe the balance in depictions of us will ultimately come from pioneers like these ladies who step into the light with whatever truth they have to share and others with different experiences that could bridge the disconnect between the idea that we're all broken deviants and the reality of us as business people, wives, daughters and women will follow.

winston1952 504 reads
posted
55 / 55

Posted By: highheelbarbie
I'm not sure this is an accurate representation. Seems like they are talking to a lot of "Street girls" which are going to have wildly different experiences than an escort or even an upscale escort. That is not what I would consider a "courtesan". Also seems like this women have a lot of past drama and strife. I was not sexually abused, hit, or raped and I don't have daddy issues...seems like these chicks have serious emotional trauma.

Not saying it wouldn't be worth watching, just saying that it's more for the street girl type providers
I think there is a wide variety of experience in the movie. If you go to the website you'll see some very upscale ladies and specialists (if that is the right term) who more than qualify. Likewise there is a variety of experience that brought these ladies into the profession. As I read the biographies I see several who delibrately chose and prepared for the path. Likewise there are some who have triumphed over the hard knocks they suffered.

I think Kristen has made a fascinating movie. I hope it gets a wide release and perhaps does some good.

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